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[goodcow]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=327962005

Now Terri's family starts squabble over her funeral
RICHARD LUSCOMBE
IN PINELLAS PARK, FLORIDA

THE legal fight to keep brain-damaged Terri Schiavo alive appeared to be over last night, but a new row erupted between her husband and her parents over what will happen to her body after she dies.

Michael Schiavo, who had his wife’s feeding tube removed by court order ten days ago, has made arrangements for her to be cremated and her ashes interred in his family’s plot in Pennsylvania.

But Bob and Mary Schindler want their daughter to have a Roman Catholic funeral service and to be buried near their home in Clearwater, Florida. They are also furious that her husband denied her an Easter communion.

The latest animosity in the bitterly contested right-to-die case emerged as Mrs Schiavo, 41, yesterday entered her ninth full day without food or water at a hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida. Doctors have said she could survive for up to two weeks.

Michael Schiavo’s lawyer, George Felos, said a judge had already backed the cremation plan. "My client will scrupulously follow the court order," he said. "Her ashes will be interred in the Schiavo family plot in Pennsylvania, where Terri and Michael grew up."

Brother Paul O’Donnell, the Schindlers’ spiritual adviser, said it was a further assault by Mr Schiavo on his wife’s rights as a Catholic after the rejection of her parents’ communion request. "She has been denied the precious body and blood of Christ in violation of her religious freedom," he said.

Mrs Schiavo’s brother, Bobby, said he had advised his parents not to make any further visits to the hospice because of her condition. "My mother has to experience her daughter dying in this fashion," he said. "It’s not painless and it’s not peaceful."

Mr Schiavo, backed by several court judgments during a 12-year legal campaign, has always insisted his wife had once told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. His doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state, leaving her awake but unable to swallow or talk.

Her parents say she could improve but that her husband has denied her treatment, despite winning a malpractice pay-out of more than $1 million for her care and rehabilitation in 1992. Mr Schiavo, who has two children with a woman he met ten years ago, has refused to surrender his status as his wife’s legal guardian.

Congress stepped into the row last week when President George Bush signed into law a bill that sent the case for federal court review. But the Schindlers’ efforts to have the feeding tube restored have been thwarted by a succession of state and federal judges and the US Supreme Court.

The latest setback came late on Saturday when the Florida Supreme Court rejected a claim that Mrs Schiavo had started to speak the words "I want to live" when she was told the tube was to come out.

Outside the hospice yesterday, about 30 protesters staged an Easter Sunday service. Three of them, including a pastor from a pro-life Christian group, were arrested as they tried to enter the hospice with bread and wine to administer communion to Mrs Schiavo.

Last night, half a dozen people in wheelchairs got out and lay in the hospice’s driveway, shouting: "We’re not dead yet." Police were loudly heckled, prompting Bobby Schindler to come out and ask protesters to tone down their behaviour. He told them: "You are not speaking for our family."

The Schindlers have pinned their last hopes on Florida’s governor, Jeb Bush, who, they say, has the authority to take Terri into the state’s protection.

 

[Fresh Prince]

I was wrong. After she's buried this shit will be over.

 

[Azih]

Wow that was a pretty one sided article.

 

[olimario]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

 

[White Man]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

I also heard that god talked to Berkowitz, but he couldn't cite it in court.

 

[olimario]

I also heard that god talked to Berkowitz, but he couldn't cite it in court.

That's too bad.

 

[fse]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

its routine.

 

[themadcowtipper]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

they also rub your arm with alcohol before a lethal injection......

 

[Macam]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

Give. Up.

 

[bjork]

I think the best way to solve this is to kill the parents and the husband.

 

[mrroboto]

tasteless reply of the night:

Spoiler

cut her body in half, 1 side to husband, other side to parents

 

[SickBoy]

Story seems old. I saw a story tonight talking about how Michael Schiavo did, in the end, permit a priest to give communion.

 

[Kuroyume]

In a sick way I'm enjoying that she is dying, not because I like when people die (although I think after 15 years it's the right thing to happen and her husband has the right) but because these religious nuts are losing. It feels so good... :lol

 

[Scrow]

when you die your body is nothing but a rotting piece of flesh... what's the big deal? People die all the time. Some people are fucked in the head.

 

[Flynn]

The bit about the "religious advisor" intrigued me.

More on Paul O'Donnell.

 

[BuG]

when you die your body is nothing but a rotting piece of flesh... what's the big deal? People die all the time. Some people are fucked in the head.

Unfortunately there are websites detailing the process of that last sentence.

 

[Minotauro]

tasteless reply of the night:

Spoiler

cut her body in half, 1 side to husband, other side to parents

Do they make half-sized urns and coffins?

 

[human5892]

they also rub your arm with alcohol before a lethal injection......

:lol Excellent reply.

 

[Malakhov]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

To kill her, duh. When someone is about to die they always give her morphine to accelerate the processus. I've seen my aunt die that way, it's not pretty.

 

[xsarien]

Brother Paul O’Donnell, the Schindlers’ spiritual adviser, said it was a further assault by Mr Schiavo on his wife’s rights as a Catholic after the rejection of her parents’ communion request. "She has been denied the precious body and blood of Christ in violation of her religious freedom," he said.

I heard this on the news last night, that a priest brought her Communion wafers. I nearly drove off into a ditch. What part of "SHE. CAN'T. SWALLOW." is not getting through what's quickly demonstrating to be the thickest heads in the union?

 

[bob_arctor]

The parents have also claimed--well, at least the shitty NY Daily News and NY Post say they claimed--that Michael Schiavo wants her cremated to cover up evidence which led to her condition. Ug-lee all around.

 

[LakeEarth]

He's gotta start using reverse psychology on these people.

"I want her buried"
"HELL NO WE'LL HAVE HER CREMATED!!"
".... okay!"
"HELL NO WE'LL HAVE HER BURIED!!"
"... okay!"
"....... MURDERER!"

 

[Iceman]

In a sick way I'm enjoying that she is dying, not because I like when people die (although I think after 15 years it's the right thing to happen and her husband has the right) but because these religious nuts are losing. It feels so good... :lol

You're a religious nut if you're (1) christian and (2) want to prevent the premature death of a woman who can't answer for herself?

Okay. Thanks for helping to the widen the gap between us all.

 

[Minotauro]

You're a religious nut if you're (1) christian and (2) want to prevent the premature death of a woman who can't answer for herself?

Okay. Thanks for helping to the widen the gap between us all.

So, you're saying the people in that picture aren't religious nuts? Look at them, for Christ's sake.

 

[miyuru]

Hehe the picture's pretty funny...!

 

[NWO]

You're a religious nut if you're (1) christian and (2) want to prevent the premature death of a woman who can't answer for herself?

Okay. Thanks for helping to the widen the gap between us all.

No your a nut if you act like this is the only person in the world that is dying and needs to be saved.

There are thousands of children all around the world that are starving to death this minute that CAN BE SAVED yet they are ignored by these "pro-life" people because they weren't featured on the news or mentioned by somebody with the last name Bush as being worthy of being saved.

This lady can't improve yet the situation CAN be improved for some many people in this country and the world yet these people protesting are DOING NOTHING to save them and when this lady dies they will continue to do NOTHING for the rest of the people in the world.

SO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT OUT PREVENTING THE PREMATURE DEATH OF SOME 3 YEAR OLD KID IN AFRICA WHO CAN BE SAVED BY GIVING HIM ONLY 13 CENTS A DAY IF THEY TRULY CARE ABOUT PREVENTING PREMATURE DEATHS??????

 

[sprsk]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

they are doign it to shut her up, this whole thing has been a coverup for the aliens of area 51.

TERRI KNOWS SOMETHING SHE SHOULDNT AND THE GUYS WHO KNOW SHE KNOWS DONT WANT HER TALKIN!

 

[mrroboto]

i'm christian and believe this woman should die.

i'm tired of these so called "devote religious" people who act like retards, hell they are retards who want to convert everybody and shout "non believers" down.

this isn't about terry. it's about these fruitcakes pushing their own moral agendas onto everyone else. it makes my sick seeing these whackos on tv.

do these people know who are trying to smuggle food and water into terry's room that they'll actually *kill* her if they try giving her food to chew and water to drink? SHE'S ON A FREAKING FEEDING TUBE YOU MORONS! she'll choke and die you F!cking fools!

you are so obessed with the case but don't even know the facts behind it that you'll end up killing her and doing the exact thing you don't want to happen to her!

besides, terry shiavo did this to herself. she binged and purged her body being a bullemic or however the hell you spell it. she made herself puke up food on a continual basis. her body said "f!ck this" and basically closed down on her. TERRY SHIAVO DID THIS TO HERSELF! not you or i! not terry shiavo's husband(who's being treated totally unfairly in this ordeal).

so really, i have no sympathy for her. i can be a christian and feel like that. sorry.

/rant off.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

SO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT OUT PREVENTING THE PREMATURE DEATH OF SOME 3 YEAR OLD KID IN AFRICA WHO CAN BE SAVED BY GIVING HIM ONLY 13 CENTS A DAY IF THEY TRULY CARE ABOUT PREVENTING PREMATURE DEATHS??????

because saving some little kid in Africa won't get your crazyass TV time on Fox News. THese people are a bunch of attention whores.

 

[xsarien]

(2) want to prevent the premature death of a woman who can't answer for herself?

No, but framing the argument in a religious context is a cynical, jackass thing to do. Keeping her alive simply defies all logic, reason, and humanity. The woman can't swallow, can't move (except in a 15 minute clip of a years-old video), and the only people to ever hear her say anything are her family members and anyone on their payroll. Where's the religious compassion in keeping her alive for the sake of doing so? Because that's what's being proposed. If one of the major tenets of religion is healing - both physical and spiritual - wouldn't the "right" thing be to let her die in peace, with what little dignity she has left? What's religious - righteous - about prolonging pain, physical and emotional?

Meanwhile, myriad doctors, lawyers, specialists, who don't have anything in common outside of providing a common testiomony, plus judges have concluded that she's in a vegetative state, there's no way this particular case can be rehabilitated, and as her husband, Michael Schiavo has the final say.

If the spouse's authority bothers you, fine. That's a valid complaint that can be addressed in future legislation. Personally, I think the proper solution is to simply make this issue a question on drivers' licenses, kind of like organ donation. "Would you want to be disconnected from life support or feeding tubes in the event of a vegetative state? (You can take up to 2 months to answer this question and mail it back.)"

 

[enjoy bell woods]

You're a religious nut if you're (1) christian and (2) want to prevent the premature death of a woman who can't answer for herself?

Okay. Thanks for helping to the widen the gap between us all.

Listen to this; it's everything everyone in this thread wants to say to people like YOU: http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/files/lousheldon.wma

Everyone in this thread, listen to that entire thing. Please.

-

Essentially, this radio host tears apart every argument this "culture of life-" promoting scumbag - Rev. Lou Sheldon - comes up with and then trounces on the concept that liberal America is working to tear apart the "traditional" foundations of the country.

I'm getting really sick of this persecution complex guys like you have, Iceman - really sick of it.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

tasteless reply of the night:

Spoiler

cut her body in half, 1 side to husband, other side to parents

I was thinking they could take a cue from Solomon, and say they would do that and whoever relinquished their claim (out of concern for Terri) would get complete custody.

 

[Incognito]

i just saw some religous fucking wacko on fauxnews lament the starvation of this poor lady, and how in america, no one should starve.

uh hello, idiot? ur supporting the party that basically advocates the death of the welfare state(food stamps, ss, etc..) that greatly benefits those in need and helps feed the poor.

the hypocrisy is simply amazing.

 

[bjork]

So, did she die yet?

 

[Diablos]

Listen to this; it's everything everyone in this thread wants to say to people like YOU: http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/files/lousheldon.wma

Everyone in this thread, listen to that entire thing. Please.

-

Essentially, this radio host tears apart every argument this "culture of life-" promoting scumbag - Rev. Lou Sheldon - comes up with and then trounces on the concept that liberal America is working to tear apart the "traditional" foundations of the country.

I'm getting really sick of this persecution complex guys like you have, Iceman - really sick of it.

I think the John and Ken show needs to be broadcast on television on a daily basis. That clip is just beautiful.

But with that being said, here's what I really think about the whole ordeal: It doesn't matter if you are to the left, right, or caught somewhere in between. It doesn't matter if you are a fundamentalist loon or an athiest. This case is absolutely none of anyone's business, and the fact that people are using this case to ulitmately fufill their political agenda is disgusting. This case is between Schiavo's husband, Schiavo's parents, and the judge. Super religious people, before you say "b-b-but this represents teh CULTURE OF DEATH OMG," there are over 30,000 other braindead people in this country, many of them will probably face a similar fate as Schiavo. Why aren't they being mentioned on the news 24/7? Why aren't a bunch of protesters speaking for them? The amount of attention paid to this case is unbelievable. People that care so much about a "culture of life" should consider investing their time in something that will make more of a difference, because they're making fools out of themselves with this one.

 

[theo]

just listened to that clip

lou sheldon is an evangelical douchebag

i love how he calls back after they cut him off

 

[DJ Sl4m]

I hear she's getting morphine. Why does she need it if she can't feel anything?

It's not so much for the pain, but it's ruitine in that it also helps a person mentally drift away a bit easier, it just makes it easier to let go when a patient is clinging to life.

 

[tt_deeb]

i just saw some religous fucking wacko on fauxnews lament the starvation of this poor lady, and how in america, no one should starve.

uh hello, idiot? ur supporting the party that basically advocates the death of the welfare state(food stamps, ss, etc..) that greatly benefits those in need and helps feed the poor.

the hypocrisy is simply amazing.

This SHOULD have nothing to do with politics. Why can't people take a side of one situation without having to be involved with everything else that party supports? I've seen way too much of these assumptions lately, especially in the other Schiavo thread.

 

[Malakhov]

It's not so much for the pain, but it's ruitine in that it also helps a person mentally drift away a bit easier, it just makes it easier to let go when a patient is clinging to life.

Morphine in high doses, with scopolamine, accelerate the death process.

 

[cvxfreak]

This woman sure is lasting pretty long.

 

[Shinobi]

No your a nut if you act like this is the only person in the world that is dying and needs to be saved.

There are thousands of children all around the world that are starving to death this minute that CAN BE SAVED yet they are ignored by these "pro-life" people because they weren't featured on the news or mentioned by somebody with the last name Bush as being worthy of being saved.

This lady can't improve yet the situation CAN be improved for some many people in this country and the world yet these people protesting are DOING NOTHING to save them and when this lady dies they will continue to do NOTHING for the rest of the people in the world.

SO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT OUT PREVENTING THE PREMATURE DEATH OF SOME 3 YEAR OLD KID IN AFRICA WHO CAN BE SAVED BY GIVING HIM ONLY 13 CENTS A DAY IF THEY TRULY CARE ABOUT PREVENTING PREMATURE DEATHS??????

i'm christian and believe this woman should die.

i'm tired of these so called "devote religious" people who act like retards, hell they are retards who want to convert everybody and shout "non believers" down.

this isn't about terry. it's about these fruitcakes pushing their own moral agendas onto everyone else. it makes my sick seeing these whackos on tv.

do these people know who are trying to smuggle food and water into terry's room that they'll actually *kill* her if they try giving her food to chew and water to drink? SHE'S ON A FREAKING FEEDING TUBE YOU MORONS! she'll choke and die you F!cking fools!

you are so obessed with the case but don't even know the facts behind it that you'll end up killing her and doing the exact thing you don't want to happen to her!

besides, terry shiavo did this to herself. she binged and purged her body being a bullemic or however the hell you spell it. she made herself puke up food on a continual basis. her body said "f!ck this" and basically closed down on her. TERRY SHIAVO DID THIS TO HERSELF! not you or i! not terry shiavo's husband(who's being treated totally unfairly in this ordeal).

so really, i have no sympathy for her. i can be a christian and feel like that. sorry.

/rant off.

I think the John and Ken show needs to be broadcast on television on a daily basis. That clip is just beautiful.

But with that being said, here's what I really think about the whole ordeal: It doesn't matter if you are to the left, right, or caught somewhere in between. It doesn't matter if you are a fundamentalist loon or an athiest. This case is absolutely none of anyone's business, and the fact that people are using this case to ulitmately fufill their political agenda is disgusting. This case is between Schiavo's husband, Schiavo's parents, and the judge. Super religious people, before you say "b-b-but this represents teh CULTURE OF DEATH OMG," there are over 30,000 other braindead people in this country, many of them will probably face a similar fate as Schiavo. Why aren't they being mentioned on the news 24/7? Why aren't a bunch of protesters speaking for them? The amount of attention paid to this case is unbelievable. People that care so much about a "culture of life" should consider investing their time in something that will make more of a difference, because they're making fools out of themselves with this one.

Speaking as a Christian, I agree with these three posts 150%...this entire thing is nothing but a sickening, ultra-contrived, politically motivated grandstand by almost everyone involved, while countless millions suffer in silence elsewhere. How the "pro-lifers" think this bullshit is helping the faith is beyond me...it's making all Christians (some of whom are actually right-minded) look like nothing but a bunch of fucking fools.

Meanwhile genocide continues in Sudan unabated, and nobody gives a shit...stupid fucking planet.

This SHOULD have nothing to do with politics. Why can't people take a side of one situation without having to be involved with everything else that party supports? I've seen way too much of these assumptions lately, especially in the other Schiavo thread.

Agreed...this has been going on for over three years now, and it's been tired for about that long. I've got news for you people...the Republicans and Democrats are both filled to the brim with corrupt, greedy, lying cocksucking parasites who only give a shit about your vote as opposed to you. It's about time you people woke the fuck up and smelt the coffee beans, instead of continuing to play into this bullshit game of political football.

 

[karasu]

I dunno, just because there's terrible shit going on elsewhere it doesn't mean you should ignore the terrible shit that's going on right around you.What, Shiavo deserves no supporters just because some kid in Ethiopa is starving right now? Of all of the things to bitch about, bitching about the fact that people care about something that they actually know about(media coverage tends to do that) is retarded. WTF are any of us doing for the starving kids of the world? Coming on the internet and whining about the people trying to do something for a starving disabled woman? Please.

 

[theo]

This woman sure is lasting pretty long.

nah, shes been dead for 15 years

of course, i believe in science, not conservative christianity

 

[Shinobi]

If I felt the complaints were genuine, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. In my cynical mind (which has become a hell of a lot more cynical in the last month), it's nothing but nonsensical grandstanding. I'd seen enough of that during the bullshit congressional hearings over baseball's steroid usage to last me till the end of spring.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

I dunno, just because there's terrible shit going on elsewhere it doesn't mean you should ignore the terrible shit that's going on right around you.What, Shiavo deserves no supporters just because some kid in Ethiopa is starving right now? Of all of the things to bitch about, bitching about the fact that people care about something that they actually know about(media coverage tends to do that) is retarded. WTF are any of us doing for the starving kids of the world? Coming on the internet and whining about the people trying to do something for a starving disabled woman? Please.

And you're ignoring the facts surrounding this, so your input doesn't really mean much.

 

[Mr. E. Yis]

Isn't this what the fight was over in Round One??

 

[karasu]

And you're ignoring the facts surrounding this, so your input doesn't really mean much.

I'm not ignoring any facts, Ive been reading about this since early 2004. So thanks for assuming I'm ignoring facts and telling me that my input doesn't matter, but fuck you very much.

 

[The Interrobanger]

Listen to this; it's everything everyone in this thread wants to say to people like YOU: http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/files/lousheldon.wma

*applaudes*

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Terry Schiavo's in a persistent vegetative state (PVS) and IS NOT brain dead. Victims of PVS can breathe on their own and will occasionally respond to stimulus (eye tracking, laughter, etc...all of which cannot be proven). Victims of brain death are dead; they can't breathe; their hearts can't beat; their flesh is all that lives.

Legally, you are not considered dead if you have PVS whereas the brain dead are, which is one of the reasons why this case is so controversial. If people would respect Terry's wishes, and remember that she'll never make a miraculous recovery--once you've suffered irreversible brain damage, you're pretty much fucked--perhaps they'll realize it's time to let go.

For all intents and purposes, she is dead, clinically or not. The chances of her regaining consciousness: zero. The chances of her responding to further stimuli in the future: we don't know if she's responded to any thus far, so probably not good. The chances of her staying in the same state for years and years to come: pretty damn good.

 

[videogamer]

Terry Schiavo's in a persistent vegetative state (PVS) and IS NOT brain dead. Victims of PVS can breathe on their own and will occasionally respond to stimulus (eye tracking, laughter, etc...all of which cannot be proven). Victims of brain death are dead; they can't breathe; their hearts can't beat; their flesh is all that lives.

Shouldn't their hearts be able to beat without the brain? The SA node does most of the heartbeat regulation while the brain modulates the heartbeat depending on the pH or gas concentrations.