• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Games RPG Hangout

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
14,535
7,536
1,150
Oregon
Awesome, thank you. I can deal with the slow battles and since i can look forward to having a more consistent party i will power through it. Side note, what FF games would you recommend for someone who's spent a lot more time with DQ than FF?
If you like the Dragon Quest formula more, the older games are probably where I recommend looking. You mentioned you had played 3 - which means you either played this game:



or this game:



Which one was it? Did you like it?

The closest Final Fantasy games to the Dragon Quest formula would either be the first game (NES) or Final Fantasy V (SNES). Final Fantasy V is known for having an amazing class system that has had a huge impact on most JRPGs since. If you did indeed play 3 (NES or DS remake) then the class system is essentially an evolution of that. It's also a huge inspiration behind 11 and 14's (MMO) class systems. It's also a game where you practically start the game with four party members, and keep them throughout the game. Final Fantasy V definitely has it's own quirks, but it sounds like it might be right up your alley. The "modern" version (available on Steam and phones) has some questionable graphical choices but overall the core gameplay loop as well as the story is still intact.

Moving forward slightly Final Fantasy X I consider to be a great entry in the series that has an interesting story, voiced dialog, turn-based combat, and a fun skill / class / leveling system. The remaster on modern consoles does a pretty good job of making the game not look like a PS2 title, and it's been out for a while so it's cheap almost everywhere.

If you're looking for something more modern it gets a bit tougher, as after 10 the series turned into either MMO (11, 14) titles or AAA cutscene games (13, 15, and to a lesser extent 12). The spin-off World of Final Fantasy somewhat fits the mold of the older games, but it's got really cringey dialog and a psuedo-Pokemon monster-catching aspect that a lot of people don't care much for. Not that any of these games are bad, I love them all for their own reasons, they're just hard to recommend to someone as RPG games because they're all so wildly different. It's really going to depend on your tastes.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Katsura

Rya.Reisender

Member
Aug 26, 2019
183
148
205
Germany
www.youtube.com
I was never the biggest FFIX fan, though I was glad they at least tried to get back to the roots after FFVIII (I hated that one), but you can't deny that its setting has a certain beauty to it.

FFVI and FFVII are in my opinion the only must-play FF games, the others depend strongly on taste.

However if you want a good traditional JRPG closer to Dragon Quest, I'd probaby recommend FFIV. But if you didn't like FFIX, it's unlikely you'll like FFIV.
 

Katsura

Gold Member
Aug 7, 2019
1,169
1,671
475
If you like the Dragon Quest formula more, the older games are probably where I recommend looking. You mentioned you had played 3 - which means you either played this game:



or this game:



Which one was it? Did you like it?

The closest Final Fantasy games to the Dragon Quest formula would either be the first game (NES) or Final Fantasy V (SNES). Final Fantasy V is known for having an amazing class system that has had a huge impact on most JRPGs since. If you did indeed play 3 (NES or DS remake) then the class system is essentially an evolution of that. It's also a huge inspiration behind 11 and 14's (MMO) class systems. It's also a game where you practically start the game with four party members, and keep them throughout the game. Final Fantasy V definitely has it's own quirks, but it sounds like it might be right up your alley. The "modern" version (available on Steam and phones) has some questionable graphical choices but overall the core gameplay loop as well as the story is still intact.

Moving forward slightly Final Fantasy X I consider to be a great entry in the series that has an interesting story, voiced dialog, turn-based combat, and a fun skill / class / leveling system. The remaster on modern consoles does a pretty good job of making the game not look like a PS2 title, and it's been out for a while so it's cheap almost everywhere.

If you're looking for something more modern it gets a bit tougher, as after 10 the series turned into either MMO (11, 14) titles or AAA cutscene games (13, 15, and to a lesser extent 12). The spin-off World of Final Fantasy somewhat fits the mold of the older games, but it's got really cringey dialog and a psuedo-Pokemon monster-catching aspect that a lot of people don't care much for. Not that any of these games are bad, I love them all for their own reasons, they're just hard to recommend to someone as RPG games because they're all so wildly different. It's really going to depend on your tastes.
I played the bottom one which i'm guessing is not the real 3rd? I liked it ok but dropped it for some reason. Maybe because it was on an old ipad and i had to restart it so i never did finish it. FFV looks really good, i'm going to grab that one. Going to look into X as well . Thanks again
I was never the biggest FFIX fan, though I was glad they at least tried to get back to the roots after FFVIII (I hated that one), but you can't deny that its setting has a certain beauty to it.

FFVI and FFVII are in my opinion the only must-play FF games, the others depend strongly on taste.

However if you want a good traditional JRPG closer to Dragon Quest, I'd probaby recommend FFIV. But if you didn't like FFIX, it's unlikely you'll like FFIV.
The setting is nice enough. It's just the static screens i have an issue with. They're often hard to navigate and it's easy to miss items and there is also a huge disconnect between them and the overworld. It's almost like 2 different games spliced together. I guess my biggest gripe with IX so far has been the constant character switching but since it gets better, i'll stick with it. How is FFIV similar to FFIX? FFIV looks much more like a DQ game just from screenshots. Do they mess with your party all the time in it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: jshackles

Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
Oct 27, 2017
7,611
12,358
860
your mind
I played FFIX for the first time last year and I enjoyed it. Not as much as FFVII, but still pretty good. I thought the game was gorgeous and the title music was amazing. But, yeah. The characters chopping and changing was annoying.
 

Rya.Reisender

Member
Aug 26, 2019
183
148
205
Germany
www.youtube.com
I played the bottom one which i'm guessing is not the real 3rd? I liked it ok but dropped it for some reason. Maybe because it was on an old ipad and i had to restart it so i never did finish it. FFV looks really good, i'm going to grab that one. Going to look into X as well . Thanks again
The ones you played is actually the 3rd.

The top one is FFVI and you really REALLY should play it. It's the best one there is in my opinion.

The setting is nice enough. It's just the static screens i have an issue with. They're often hard to navigate and it's easy to miss items and there is also a huge disconnect between them and the overworld. It's almost like 2 different games spliced together.
That's called prerendered background. Did not grow up with that style? Then I can see it's hard to get into. PSX-era I always thought prerendered background style was amazing because of the photorealistic picture in comparison to 3D models back then.
It didn't age too well, but there's some nostalgia for it lately (after there's been nostalgia for 2D, this is basically the next big nostalgia graphics style).

I don't mind having to search every inch and corner of every picture to find "hidden" doors and stuff. That's part of the fun for me.

I guess my biggest gripe with IX so far has been the constant character switching but since it gets better, i'll stick with it.
I kind of like this more than having to decide yourself who to put into your active party. Never can decide.

How is FFIV similar to FFIX? FFIV looks much more like a DQ game just from screenshots. Do they mess with your party all the time in it?
Yes FFIV is like FFXI as in the party constantly switches. This is basically to keep the gameplay fresh. There isn't much customization but instead each character is very unique in how he/she plays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Katsura

Katsura

Gold Member
Aug 7, 2019
1,169
1,671
475
The ones you played is actually the 3rd.

The top one is FFVI and you really REALLY should play it. It's the best one there is in my opinion.


That's called prerendered background. Did not grow up with that style? Then I can see it's hard to get into. PSX-era I always thought prerendered background style was amazing because of the photorealistic picture in comparison to 3D models back then.
It didn't age too well, but there's some nostalgia for it lately (after there's been nostalgia for 2D, this is basically the next big nostalgia graphics style).

I don't mind having to search every inch and corner of every picture to find "hidden" doors and stuff. That's part of the fun for me.


I kind of like this more than having to decide yourself who to put into your active party. Never can decide.


Yes FFIV is like FFXI as in the party constantly switches. This is basically to keep the gameplay fresh. There isn't much customization but instead each character is very unique in how he/she plays.
Thanks. Ok, so i did play 3. I'll keep FFVI in mind. Yea, i did play some games with prerendered bgs but they have aged like milk which is why i suspect that nostalgia plays a big part in why people don't mind them now. I wasn't big on FF back then. I played VII and tactics on release but that's it. I like VII but would not want to replay it. I love tactics and have replayed it several times on various platforms. As a whole I always found DQ games more appealing but i want to give FF a fair shot. I'm going to keep going with IX and i grabbed X and X-2 pretty cheap for later where i will also get V and VI. I think you're right that i would not like IV. I prefer making those decisions on my own and building characters the way i like it

Thanks again to both of you, you've been very helpful

I'now roughly 16 hours into FFIX and it's starting to grow on me. I'm sailing around looking for Cids wife in order to turn him human again. Having a much more fixed party with multiple characters to choose from really makes a difference and the story has switched up a gear or 2

Another update and this is going to be a rant so feel free to ignore it. I just need to vent my frustration here

So i'm roughly 17 hours in and enjoying the game. Freedom to sail around, a good stable core party and the story is starting to take off and then i go to the Desert Palace...

After being captured i now have to decide on a party to go grab the stone for Kuja. Since i'm told that magic doesn't work there, Vivi is obviously benched as is Dagger. I travel to the forgotten continent and everything goes fine except for the final boss which i had to replay once. The reason being that it relies entirely on confusion which i have no remedy or protection against so it largely relies on luck. That's shitty design. Anyway, second time is the charm and i grab the stone. Then the real frustration starts

First off is the stupid sequence to grab the key. Annoying but not hard. So now i have to disable a trap which is lighting all the lights and this is where the troubles starts. This goes back to the prerenders and how it's very easy to miss things. I've had to backtrack a lot because lights that appeared to be lit were in fact not. That would be tolerable if not for the fact that this party includes a healer who often simply skips her turn because she can't concentrate and 2 characters i haven't used except when forced to and who are therefore under levelled and under geared. It doesn't help any that you can't take 5 steps without spawning random encounters and in here half of them seem to rely on confusion, again, and physical counters which can one shot my characters, severely limiting my options. So i'm forced to rely mainly on Vivi who is very capable but since i haven't been near a shop for a good while and ether potions are scarce, i foresee another major issue soon. This is the point very i logged out

At this point i'm not sure if it's the good sides of game that makes me push on or if it's some kind of battered wife thing. It may even be a sunk cost issue. At any rate i'm very frustrated with the game right now which really sucks since the past couple of hours before the palace have been very enjoyable

Rant over
 
Last edited:

Urprobablyright

Neo Member
Jan 31, 2020
255
174
160
Neverwinter Knights 2. Underrated, under discussed. I loved that game, wasn't able to finish it because stream threw my save out of an airplane when i started storming demon fortresses or whatever, but i had by then leveled my keep up heaps and put huge thought into my characters etc.. amazing how many ques Pillars of Eternity seemed to take from that title~~

Oblivion, a forgotten tes game. Everyone is so big on Skyrim (rightly), plenty of people are hipster about Morrowind (i completed Morrowind and became a lord and passed all the trials to become the dark elf champion of whatever so clearly i liked and respected that game), it seems like Oblivion has kind of lapsed into a middle ground anonymity.

People seem to think it's boring, the setting, whathaveyou.. i couldn't disagree more. Maybe it is kind of standard Albion high fantasy, but i seriously needed a big dose of that when it came out. I just needed to stroll through wooded glades, explore bump mapped crypts, take back paths all day long.. Oblivion was hugely immersive and had some great quest chains, rivals of Morrowind..

I'll write threads on this phenomenon when i FINALLY get membership, but time hugely distorts one's memory of and appreciation of games. I remember when i was quaking in my prostrate at the thought of escorting the Emperor through the jail catacombs, being a Blade... Seeing those red icons for locked doors or owned horses, whathaveyou... Skyrim obscured scores of hours that i put into this field, if not hundreds, peeling away that later title really reminds me how immersive and mind opening that game was. I'm going to play this game again. I can't really do that with Morrowind. I once overcame how basic the controls were enough to complete huge swathes of the game, but i could never go back that far after The Witcher 3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scopa

Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
Oct 27, 2017
7,611
12,358
860
your mind
Neverwinter Knights 2. Underrated, under discussed. I loved that game, wasn't able to finish it because stream threw my save out of an airplane when i started storming demon fortresses or whatever, but i had by then leveled my keep up heaps and put huge thought into my characters etc.. amazing how many ques Pillars of Eternity seemed to take from that title~~

Oblivion, a forgotten tes game. Everyone is so big on Skyrim (rightly), plenty of people are hipster about Morrowind (i completed Morrowind and became a lord and passed all the trials to become the dark elf champion of whatever so clearly i liked and respected that game), it seems like Oblivion has kind of lapsed into a middle ground anonymity.

People seem to think it's boring, the setting, whathaveyou.. i couldn't disagree more. Maybe it is kind of standard Albion high fantasy, but i seriously needed a big dose of that when it came out. I just needed to stroll through wooded glades, explore bump mapped crypts, take back paths all day long.. Oblivion was hugely immersive and had some great quest chains, rivals of Morrowind..

I'll write threads on this phenomenon when i FINALLY get membership, but time hugely distorts one's memory of and appreciation of games. I remember when i was quaking in my prostrate at the thought of escorting the Emperor through the jail catacombs, being a Blade... Seeing those red icons for locked doors or owned horses, whathaveyou... Skyrim obscured scores of hours that i put into this field, if not hundreds, peeling away that later title really reminds me how immersive and mind opening that game was. I'm going to play this game again. I can't really do that with Morrowind. I once overcame how basic the controls were enough to complete huge swathes of the game, but i could never go back that far after The Witcher 3.
Oblivion was huge when it came out. I think it’s just the younger generation gamers that don’t really know it.

I wish it would get ported to Switch because I’d love to replay it, but I want my RPGs with a portable option nowadays. I’ve been spoiled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Urprobablyright

Urprobablyright

Neo Member
Jan 31, 2020
255
174
160
Oblivion was huge when it came out. I think it’s just the younger generation gamers that don’t really know it.
You know what i really miss, but don't think i could ever experience again? Tribunal, from the Morrowind expansion. Morrowind had some kind of art direction. I loved velothi towers with their carved doors and walls, and tribunal interiors were just awesome.

I say i can't experience it again because i don't think i can immerse myself in it in the same way i once did, now that my bar for gameplay and controls etc is so much higher.. even a graphics overhaul isn't enough, indeed it would just show up even more how the proportions and NPCs are so prehistoric... Shame

But hey, if i can't shout out to it in this thread, where else?~~~
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scopa

Katsura

Gold Member
Aug 7, 2019
1,169
1,671
475
FFIX done and i still don't get it. I've seen lots of people talking about it as one of the greatest RPGs of all time and i'm confused as to why. The story is full of one in a million coincidences that are not explained, i'm still not entirely sure what Garland was on about Zidanes true identity in the end and the battle system is a crime against gaming. They call it active battle but it's anything but that. I fail to see what that system adds compared to standard turned based combat let alone anything to excuse how incredibly slow it is. My save says it took me 30 hours to complete and that's with very liberal use of the 3 x speed feature. I'd like to see some stats showing how much of that time was spent just waiting while fighting. I'm fairly sure it's a substantial amount of time. Speaking of the boosts, it's safe to say i would not have completed the game had it not been there. The same goes for the ability to disable random encounters. Hello Desert Palace. Oh and who ever decided that saving should include a long npc animation that can't be skipped should be fired

It's not all bad. There are some good characters and interesting environments but all in all i don't understand how some people rate it as the best RPG ever

On to FFX