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[Pie and Beans]

It's so odd that there are these groups fighting for "what woman want" at the same time telling woman what they want and find attractive/empowering.

But my god are these threads always such a mess. It is still the biggest debated subject right now and no side is altering at all. I'm curious to see it in a few years.

Its just the petulant "I want change right now, and 100% of the change I want, and to do so I'm going to shame you into doing so/make you fear this social justice movement!!" approach that is so absolutely ridiculous.

These same people will talk about how they want to see more women working in the industry and how they can affect change from within. Yknow what? Fuck all of you big players and outlets that have run such wistful sentences in your other articles. Corrinne Yu leaves Microsoft for Naughty Dog, probably one of the industry's biggest female players, and not one of you butts think its article or news worthy. Some smaller sites have picked it up, but oh look, Carmack leaving id is news across them all though, we can report that, sure.

Of course RPS is 'PC-only' with all the extra elitism baggage that comes with and wouldnt report on console dalliances anyway but I'd dare say PC gaming is going to be far more of a male dominated past time than console, iOS, and so forth anyway so if they want to bang this drum they're in the wrong neighbourhood. The exception being DOTA and LOL and WoW and the like which women are enjoying playing around the world, but no, silly women, you should stop enjoying those things and demand all sexualisation to be stricken from your entertainment because it creates theoretical shackles around your un-empowered inner goddess or whatever.

If you want to affect change, you big up the examples of what you want to see repeated, you evangelise that shit, and make sure others take note. You don't come at people with knives out and try and make them feel terrible about even okaying female characters in their game in the first place. You should accept evolution and maturing of an artform and industry is a period of time thing not a "we yelled at them and they surrendered" thing.

 

[MisterHero]

There are posts here saying "Comic book style = hypersexualised" and it's an off-base assumption. Comic book characters have all sorts of exaggeration so they aren't super boring like Greg Land.

Sure sometimes characters are exaggerated in a way that makes them more alluring. But sexiness is only one possible result of comic exaggeration.

Obligatory

The 2nd to last panel is every show CW/WB ever aired.

and possibly Val Kilmer Batman

 

[Majukun]

I think what some people seem to be forgetting is that female power fantasy's do exist, which is made apparent when playing games like mmo's. I've met a lot of women playing mmo's and a lot of them play what I would consider good looking female characters because that power fantasy of butch muscular, males and more slender "sexy" females does in fact go both ways. There are a lot of females that like playing characters men would find attractive anyway.

Combine this with the fact the mmo's tend to have a lot of customisation, with some of the ones I played especially in regards to looks and clothes, I don't think the girls in particular mind that much about their characters appearance as in the games I was talking about there were far more modest appearances possible.

There's a reason why shows like one tree hill, 90210, Vampire diaries and basically almost any teen show have female characters that pass for models when their main audiences aren't men.

The issue really is the level which often overpowering to point of off putting in many games, rather than the fact it exists. Because It's blasted over almost all digital media.

exactly

 

[SargerusBR]

RPS wins a small victory for real journalism

You mean shit journalism

 

[Gannd]

Obligatory

Not every female is attracted to feminine men. Some women, and I'd argue most women, like masculine men. That comic is just pointless.

 

[Village]

Not every female is attracted to feminine men. Some women, and I'd argue most women, like masculine men. That comic is just pointless.

One.
How do you know.

Two that is not the point of the comic.

 

[Wynnebeck]

The 2nd to last panel is every show CW/WB ever aired.

and possibly Val Kilmer Batman

:lol

 

[Village]

I actually agree with this. Many of these so called 'gaming journalists' are now culled from the massive ranks of fledgling bloggers. Hence why they have so many attention-whores with clickbait articles and 'controversial' stances on games, such as giving contrarian review scores just because it's so edgy and cool.

Is this sarcasm?

 

[SteveO409]

I wonder what would RPS view be if games like "Kantai Collection" made it big in the west like it did in the east. It has scantily clad anime characters but still remains a phenomenon.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I always wonder why people call them journalists?

I mean, at least in Germany, I couldnt just call myself a journalist, just because I am writing a few articles or blog-like stories/tumblr-shit.
In fact, I am writing articles for a website as a part-time job, but would never call myself a journalist.

I wish there were people on these sites that, in fact, studied journalism at a journalism-school/University and know their shit instead of just "fans" of games.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I always wonder why people call them journalists?

Because the word "journalist" covers a whole lot of different things and they are indeed journalists.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Because the word "journalist" covers a whole lot of different things and they are indeed journalists.

But in what way are they different from bloggers nowadays? I mean, if I make a blog about videogames, review them, should I call myself a journalist? I wouldnt no.
Like I said. I am also writing articles for a website, but would never call myself like that.

At least for me and how I see the definition of that, journalists should at least have done anything in this field, educationally.

 

[Thaster]

Looks like RPS wants those page views.

Starting a controversy about the objectification of women in video games seems to be in right now.

What a pointless interview.

 

[Zeyphersan]

I think what some people seem to be forgetting is that female power fantasy's do exist, which is made apparent when playing games like mmo's. I've met a lot of women playing mmo's and a lot of them play what I would consider good looking female characters because that power fantasy of butch muscular, males and more slender "sexy" females does in fact go both ways. There are a lot of females that like playing characters men would find attractive anyway.

Combine this with the fact the mmo's tend to have a lot of customisation, with some of the ones I played especially in regards to looks and clothes, I don't think the girls in particular mind that much about their characters appearance as in the games I was talking about there were far more modest appearances possible.

I don't think MMOs are the best things to reference when talking about male and female equivalency. It's very possible to meet women who like the fact that their armor is skimpy, but it's not like they have a choice in the matter. Blizzard has spoken VOLUMES before, by having the same armor piece in WoW on a guy be an actual piece of armor, and worn by a woman be a thong. That's intentional on their part.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

"Our opinion of your female character designs is that they up the sexy too much, disempowering women."

"But have you asked women what they think about our character designs?"

"Pffff, no, who needs to ask women anything?"

RPS pulled this same rubbish with Skullgirls. They need to learn that they are on the losing side of this argument because they're looking at this entire situation presupposing that sexy = bad, which is a result of their their own cultural background and paternalistic viewpoints showing through and colouring their judgement.

 

[reptilescorpio]

OP has an odd idea of what an ambush is.

 

[Delusibeta]

Tell me Jarate, why should I read any of your brand of journalism instead of just going to the game's official site (and Neogaf thereafter)?

Spoiler alert: in this age of direct streams and social media, games journalism is basically redundant outside of the indie sphere. Hell, we've had multiple hype threads about Atlus hyping up an announcement that they're going to having tomorrow, not to mention stuff like 2k's announcement streams and Codemasters' pre-release steams for Grid 2, never mind Nintendo Direct, the PlayStation Blog and the Xbox Wire.

 

[Zebra]

Looks like RPS wants those page views.

Starting a controversy about the objectification of women in video games seems to be in right now.

What a pointless interview.

Starting? It's been an issue for years, it's about damn time people started raising hell for it.

 

[Delusibeta]

Starting? It's been an issue for years, it's about damn time people started raising hell for it.

Years? Closer to 15 months.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Years? Closer to 15 months.

Sexism in video games started fifteen months ago.

lol

 

[Khezu]

I don't think MMOs are the best things to reference when talking about male and female equivalency. It's very possible to meet women who like the fact that their armor is skimpy, but it's not like they have a choice in the matter. Blizzard has spoken VOLUMES before, by having the same armor piece in WoW on a guy be an actual piece of armor, and worn by a woman be a thong. That's intentional on their part.

A handful of armors from vanilla wow, and even back then, you had to go out of your way to get sexy looking armor. The vast majority of armor looks the same on both female and male characters.

 

[Delusibeta]

Sexism in video games started fifteen months ago.

lol

People complaining about sexism in video games started fifteen months ago. Hell, I don't think the word was even used by RPS prior to Tropes vs Women's Kickstarter.

 

[Lost Fragment]

But in what way are they different from bloggers nowadays? I mean, if I make a blog about videogames, review them, should I call myself a journalist? I wouldnt no.
Like I said. I am also writing articles for a website, but would never call myself like that.

At least for me and how I see the definition of that, journalists should at least have done anything in this field, educationally.

Technically, that would make you a journalist, yes.

People who write their dumb opinions about video games are journalists. News anchors are journalists. People who make crossword puzzles for the New York Times are journalists. People who write recipes and advice columns for Ladies Home Journal are journalists too.

But no, a lot of those people wouldn't go around calling themselves journalists either since peple generally have a very narrow definition of the word, as if it only applies to people with "press" cards in their fedoras who rummage through trash cans, and saying "Hi! I'm a journalist!" could cause confusion if you're not a fedora-wearing trash rummager. But video game journalists are actually called journalists because the type of content they produce is very similar to the type of content classical fedora-wearing journalists would produce for a newspaper or whatever, even if that content doesn't come with the same ethical standards you might desire.

Anyway, I don't know why some people get so hung up on whether people who write articles about games are journalists or not, because what they're called isn't important at all, and people, in general, attach a false reverence to that word.

 

[PataHikari]

All this over a roller derby outfit. Ohhhh kayyyyyy....

Because it's not just a "roller derby outfit" it's a systemic problem.

Starting a controversy about the objectification of women in video games seems to be in right now.

That's because it's a bad thing and any good journalist should be hammering it in and asking the developers and companies why they're engaging in this sexist dribble.

 

[Ilúvatar]

What a waste of Dustin Browder's time.

Think that sums up my feelings pretty succinctly.

 

[Zebra]

Years? Closer to 15 months.

Women have been unequally represented in gaming for ages.

Someone would have to be blind to look at the history of gaming and not acknowledge that it's been a heavily self-perpetuated boys club. That's not to say all games have been like that, and things have been getting better, but to ignore the issue helps nothing.

 

[PataHikari]

Think that sums up my feelings pretty succinctly.

Yes how dare a representative of a company be asked to explain a bad thing the company does.

 

[Thaster]

Starting? It's been an issue for years, it's about damn time people started raising hell for it.

Of course it has been.Should have clarified.

I meant an unnecessary controversy with HotS specifically.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I'm beginning to think people have no earthly idea what the word "sexism" means. Graduated to a catch all outrage term I guess.

 

[PataHikari]

I'm beginning to think people have no earthly idea what the word "sexism" means. Graduated to a catch all outrage term I guess.

You certainly don't, that's for sure.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

It's so odd that there are these groups fighting for "what woman want" at the same time telling woman what they want and find attractive/empowering.

But my god are these threads always such a mess. It is still the biggest debated subject right now and no side is altering at all. I'm curious to see it in a few years.

the videogame media is incompetent, so they've been trying to rile up people with this shit. it's like the traditional media trying to blame videogames for every violent episode in the 90s and in a decade this will have amounted to exactly nothing

the interview bit posted in the op is so pathetic. it's like walking up to someone and harassing them for being religious/atheist out of nowhere. the guy is basically going "ok you can have your opinion, just le me go" while the "journalist" is trying to stir shit up

i like how people being harassed is ok if they're a majority of something. "omg you think it's ok for women to have big tits/wear bikinis in videogames? wow what a terible person". i like how the gaming journalists are too busy with this instead of actually researching things or covering games

the truth is that the journalists can't really uncover the dirty stuff ms/nintendo/sony/valve do and with the internet, there is no need for a specialized press to market the games. so these people have to look to generate hits with this stuff

i don't even know why these threads always get so many posts. i've been seeing them for like the past 2 years or so and this is the first time i actually felt there was a need to post in one after all this time. i guess people will eventually get tired of it and learn not to give it this much attention

 

[Zebra]

the interview bit posted in the op is so pathetic. it's like walking up to someone and harassing them for being religious/atheist out of nowhere. the guy is basically going "ok you can have your opinion, just le me go" while the "journalist" is trying to stir shit up

No it's like having an arranged interview to talk with someone about being religious/atheist and asking them something about their religion/atheism that makes them uncomfortable.

It's a fair question. It's not the journalist's job to sell their game for them. If there is shit that needs stirring up, it's their job to stir it.

 

[Mulgrok]

Instead of calling sexy women degrading and disgusting the blogger should have asked why they didn't have any female models that would attract a larger demographic to their product. Starting a flame war using derisive terms about attractive female models leads to defensive answers and shuts out any opportunity for reasoned debate.

If anything, the interviewer should have lead the rep into explaining what they did to make the models sexy and why that was done. Follow up questions could have included asking how to they could design the models to attract a larger female following and expand their audience. If they respond with no intentions of expanding further into the female demographic that could be further elaborated on.

RPS bloggers need to adjust their methods to encourage positive discussion. This could have been done in a manner that exposes fundamental flaws in their methodology and marketing strategy. Flame wars lead to larger viewing numbers though... so shock value for monies wins out, I guess.

 

[Won]

Yeah, I'm sorry, this is a big and important topic and the way RPS went about this was indeed pathetic. For me they have with this done more harm than good.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Nathan's writing and journalistic work has always been more heavy-handed than the rest of the RPS crew but I don't see the problem with this interview. It's a legit question and Bowder didn't handle the follow-ups as well as he could and had to have PR step in.

 

[antitrop]

Nathan's writing and journalistic work has always been more heavy-handed than the rest of the RPS crew but I don't see the problem with this interview. It's a legit question and Bowder didn't handle the follow-ups as well as he could and had to have PR step in.

I can sum up at least one of my most major issues with this interview fairly easily:

I don't think this counts as "hyper-sexualized".

 

[LordJim]

I can sum up at least one of my most major issues with this interview fairly easily:
I don't think this counts as "hyper-sexualized".

You mean you do not see how much more sexualized the design is compared to these roller derby girls?

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

 

[Glass Rebel]

I can sum up at least one of my most major issues with this interview fairly easily:

I don't think this counts as "hyper-sexualized".

that's fair. I don't think it makes the question any less valid.

 

[Gintamen]

People complaining about sexism in video games started fifteen months ago.

That's simply not true, did you live under a rock? Just because it wasn't as prevailing as it is now, doesn't mean the issue didn't exist and wasn't talked about.

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

The comments on this article are hilarious.

If you are white and male you don’t have anyone shitting on you with impunity. You are, let’s face it, the majority. So you won’t see the soul-crushing condescending attitudes of your bosses at work, as you try valiantly to prove yourself when none of your colleagues have to do squat other than their assigned work and show up every day and not fail a drug test. Believe it or not, white people don’t have this problem.

They also don’t have the problem of never having anyone in popular media to identify with, they automatically get acceptance if they’re reasonably well-dressed and mannered, and don’t have assumptions leveled at them like “they must be bad at this, they’re white and male”, or “it’s not their fault, they’re white and male, they don’t know any better”, or “I wish white male people would stop trying”, or “stop complaining, so many other people have it worse than you”. All disempowering stuff, that no one says to white males EVER.

That’s why you’re privileged. Because you never have to deal with this, that’s why you don’t get it. And you know what, I don’t have to put up with this shit either, because I’m just as privileged. But at least I have empathy with the people who do have to put up with this shit.

Oh really? White males are the majority? Have you worked in engineering or accounting in Silicon Valley? Ignorance is bliss I guess.

When people talk about white men being the majority, they speak in terms of sociology, not numerically. The American institution benefits white males more than any other group of people.

 

[UrbanRats]

You mean you do not see how much more sexualized the design is compared to these roller derby girls?

You're ironic? Can't tell anymore.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

If anything, the interviewer should have lead the rep into explaining what they did to make the models sexy and why that was done. Follow up questions could have included asking how to they could design the models to attract a larger female following and expand their audience. If they respond with no intentions of expanding further into the female demographic that could be further elaborated on.

It's not for the journalist to do the PR man's job.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Thanks GAF, now I'm getting these ads:

 

[Effnine]

I hope those that feel so passionate about this type of issue also feel that violence has no place in videogames.

Surely you wouldn't suggest that guns, gore, and gratuitous violence are less harmful than a roller girl character, right? I assume you would avoid and decry all violence in videogames, right? Where is the gamer outcry on NeoGAF about this?

This whole thing feels like arguing about sex vs violence in media. It's hypocritical to sit here and suggest this roller derby outfit is not OK yet the overwhelming amount of violence is.

 

[LtSerge]

How are we on the same planet? Sexual liberation/freedom is a founding pillar of fucking feminism. You seem to have misguided and flat out ignorant opinions on feminism. Here's a good start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

There's no need to act rude towards someone who may be ignorant towards your views. Maybe his/hers views towards "Modern Day Feminism" isn't the same as that wikipedia pages.

 

[notworksafe]

Sexism in video games started fifteen months ago.

lol

Nah, using it as a guaranteed way to get clicks instead of trying to actually have a worthwhile discussion started around 15 months ago.

 

[Effnine]

Nah, using it as a guaranteed way to get clicks instead of trying to actually have a worthwhile discussion started around 15 months ago.

Pretty much. Flavor-of-the-month click bait ...

 

[K.Sabot]

I would say that I expect more of RPS, but honestly, after the stunts they've pulled previously I don't.

 

[AAlias]

What a garbage article. RPS is full of tumblr SJWs these days it seems