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[FireVoa]

Man that's rough for Dustin, I feel for the guy. So should more companies prepare their staff for things of this nature in the future? Usually there's a cue card response with PR departments but should actual staff know what to say when they are jumped with questions like this?

PS. Is this considered a "gotcha" question from RPS?

 

[antitrop]

I know it's about HotS, but Blizzard also made Hearthstone. It's not just the game but the game company.

So... what?

What does that have to do with the interview?

What does that have to do with Dustin Browder?

Why is Dustin Browder suddenly responsible for ALL of Blizzard? He's just one man overseeing the development of one game.

It's hardly fair to lay an entire industry's problems at his feet. What has he done wrong personally that he deserves to be admonished so harshly for?

I've already stated that I don't even think the Nova model in Heroes is "hyper-sexualized", as the interviewer states, so the entire premise of his curveball question at the end is ridiculous at the base level. The interviewer comes off like the irrational, agenda-driven zealot that he is.

 

[johnsmith]

Want to know how diverse Blizzard actually is with female characters in their games? Look no further than World of Warcaft and two of the most important female characters, Jaina Proudmoore and Lady Sylvannas Windrunner.

Jaina is dressed conservative (though with an exposed midriff), which might be normal considering her class (a high mage). More attention is given, though, to what she goes through, especially lately seeing Garrosh lay waste to her home town of Theramore and her becoming blinded by revenge, forgetting of her desire for peace (she once had an intimate relationship with Thrall, former leader of the Horde before he joined up with the Earthen Ring after the Shattering). I haven't played WoW after 5.3, so I don't know of how her story is currently, but she is seen as strong willed (and seriously, you didn't want to mess with her if you were going to raid on Theramore on a PvP server prior to Mists: she's not fucking around).

With Sylvannas, though, she's a lot more sexualized that Jaina is, as you can see, but many think she's allowed to because she's a complete and total badass. Hunter class and has an entire history with being Undead and serving as a Scourge under the Lich King. She can also be very manipulative, and not even the Horde really trust her (Garrosh hates her, though by the end of Mists, he becomes very exposed for the sack of crap he is).

Simply put, I think Blizzard is one of those companies that doesn't think that sexualized dress code doesn't mean the woman who's in the threads is any less of a person. Maybe the RPS interviewer should've looked at all the women they've made in WoW to know that Bowden is completely correct in how they design characters. It's all within their context (you wouldn't expect the hunter class in WoW to wear plate armor, would you?).

Don't forget Tyrande. In WC3 they upturned all the stereotypes and made the women the warriors, while the men were sleepy druids.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I would actually love to know how many women are really offended by this stuff.

Also I think it's funny that most of the people complaining would feel just fine if the stomach was covered or if the boobs were one size smaller. I wonder who thinks less of women.,,,

 

[Azure Dream]

Freedom of speech means freedom to criticize.

Why do people have to deal with it? If they don't like it, they can criticize them and push for change in the industry. That's the great thing about free speech.

Criticizing and letting people know your opinions on their art is fine, but demonization is quickly becoming prevalent. Not necessarily on GAF, but around for certain. Some of the comments toward Kamitani became very barbed, for example.

 

[outlawedprod]

He probably won't be interviewing with Blizzard for awhile.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/13/blizzard-talks-diablo-iiis-new-path-defends-online-req/

RPS: What if people don’t want to commit to a community? What if they just want to play the game?

Martens: We didn’t make that game. That’s the straight-up answer. We did not make that game, and we’re not going to turn this game into that game. We have the online mode because we learned a lot over the many, many years that Diablo II was in development.

That was the wrong choice to allow people to play offline, and we still stand by that. And we think Internet access is widespread. If someone has no Internet access, then yeah, Diablo III is not the game for them.

[PR motions that time is up]

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Let the game creators, designers and programmers do the game they want without telling them in the face that they should feel bad for designing sexy females. You don't have to like it, you don't have to buy those games and then that way other creators will step up and start designing females in a different way.

What's to discuss to be honest? It has been discussed to death, you don't need to face a Blizzard guy and others and keep saying it they can't create females with revealing clothes for whatever reasons, because after all that's trying to censor their creativity. All the cards are in the table now, is up to creators to stand up and do those other type of games/designs not because they have been enforced by people, but because they want to create them.

 

[LordJim]

It's not about whether or not women who play games are offended by sexy clothing. It's about the fact that this kind of art style (and more importantly the attitude that Blizz displayed in this interview) is reinforcing a paradigm that puts many women off from games entirely.

The interviewer calls the designs pretty much problematic, not just alienating players.
Pandering or not to audiences and why is a different issue altogether.
And does it that many players, really?

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

So... what?

What does that have to do with the interview?

What does that have to do with Dustin Browder?

Why is Dustin Browder suddenly responsible for ALL of Blizzard? He's just one man overseeing the development of one game.

It's hardly fair to lay an entire industry's problems at his feet. What has he done wrong personally that he deserves to be admonished so harshly for?

I've already stated that I don't even think the Nova model in Heroes is "hyper-sexualized", as the interviewer states, so the entire premise of his curveball question at the end is ridiculous at the base level. The interviewer comes off like the irrational, agenda-driven loon that he is.

"Admonished so harshly for"? Did we really read the same interview? It wasn't that tough of a question (lol at "ambush" in the thread title).

You're putting words in my mouth, Dustin Browder is not responsible for all of blizzard, nor is anyone laying the industry's problems at his feet. This is a discussion the industry should be having and either Dustin wasn't expecting it and answered poorly or (imo) didn't think it was that big of a deal (when he compares it to comic books, as that made it any better).

 

[Dang0]

I think part of the problem is, men make most of the games, and women's sexuality is a power over men. I mean I work in the financial industry and there are a lot of women(a few that I work with) who use their sexuality to their advantage and it works quite well. I think a lot of men do think they are making women "powerful" by making them sexy. I think the reason it isnt really comparable to men in games is, I think men are objectified completely different from women, because men's sexuality isn't as much of a power over women.

I will say though, there are ways of making women sexy without making them look so... revealing.

You don't have to make a woman powerful to make her an interesting character. For example lets take a mother, an older woman, who looks a bit like Katjaa from TWD,

and put her in, for e.g. The Sprawl from Dead Space 2. The necromorph outbreak is happening, and you need to guide this mother character through the sprawl in a stealth style game with limited combat in order to find her husband and children. You could explore all sorts of interesting concepts, such as whether you should try to save your children or yourself, making desicions on who to rescue and who to leave, all while trying to avoid going mad from the markers influence. You could even do it on a small budget and make it a download game.

 

[Guerilla]

RPS: But it’s not even about a message. The goal is to let people have fun in an environment where they can feel awesome without being weirded out or even objectified. This is a genre about empowerment. Why shouldn’t everyone feel empowered? That’s what it’s about at the end of the day: letting everyone have a fair chance to feel awesome.

Browder: Uh-huh. Cool. Totally.

[PR says we've run over, tells me I have to leave]

I hope these unprofessional fucks never get an interview again. Yeah, let's start ranting in the middle of the interview about our cause, that's a good idea! Holy shit at the stunt, pathetic.

 

[unbias]

You don't have to make a woman powerful to make her an interesting character. For example lets take a mother, an older woman, who looks a bit like Katjaa from TWD, and put her in, for e.g. The Sprawl from Dead Space 2. The necromorph outbreak is happening, and you need to guide this mother character through the sprawl in a stealth style game with limited combat in order to find her husband and children. You could explore all sorts of interesting concepts, such as whether you should try to save your children or yourself, making desicions on who to rescue and who to leave, all while trying to avoid going mad from the markers influence. You could even do it on a small budget and make it a download game.

Oh, I agree with what you said, I would prefer if games didnt always resort to "over 9000" type stories or "Die Hard", like characters. I just think the gameplay is the biggest driving factor for why we have what we have. Everything revolves around a certain paradigm right now, with most geners and games and what you see is peoples attempts at giving the "appearance" of power to fit their gameplay.

 

[nynt9]

I would actually love to know how many women are really offended by this stuff.

Also I think it's funny that most of the people complaining would feel just fine if the stomach was covered or if the boobs were one size smaller. I wonder who thinks less of women.,,,

Every single female gamer I know prefers sexualized female characters as long as they're not absurdly sexualized. Obviously this is anectodal, but that's what I have. However, this:

It's not about whether or not women who play games are offended by sexy clothing. It's about the fact that this kind of art style (and more importantly the attitude that Blizz displayed in this interview) is reinforcing a paradigm that puts many women off from games entirely.

is a fair point. That being said RPS could have asked he same questions in their interview without being snarky about it.

Oh, I agree with what you said, I would prefer if games didnt always resort to "over 9000" type stories or "Die Hard", like characters. I just think the gameplay is the biggest driving factor for why we have what we have. Everything revolves around a certain paradigm right now, with most geners and games and what you see is peoples attempts at giving the "appearance" of power to fit their gameplay.

Given that gameplay is what differentiates gaming from other media, it being the biggest driving factor for aspects of the media is unsurprising and actually not a bad thing.

The saddest part is that the interviewer will never even realize how ridiculous he was being, because he will just dismiss any detractors as roadblocks standing in the way of making the games industry a bastion of equality and acceptance.

That's what zealots do.

.

 

[NervousXtian]

That's some pretty shitty agenda driven bullcrap from RPS.

That's called creating an issue to bitch about.

That roller derby skin looks less revealing and sexualized than MOST actual roller girl's ACTUAL outfits.

 

[antitrop]

I hope these unprofessional fucks never get an interview again. Yeah, let's start ranting in the middle of the interview about our cause, that's a good idea! Holy shit at the stunt, pathetic.

The saddest part is that the interviewer will never even realize how ridiculous he was being, because he will just dismiss any detractors as roadblocks standing in the way of making the games industry a bastion of equality and acceptance.

That's what zealots do.

 

[Ryudo]

Unrealistic fetishization of the male body

Doesn't count. No amount of "unrealistic" categorization of males ever counts. If you say it does then it makes you an MRE. Good luck to the little boys is all I can say.

 

[obonicus]

You know... I don't think Blizzard has a problem with having a plentiful female userbase.

That's what I was figuring; not a big fan of Blizzard's, but given the gender distribution and population of WoW I figure that they've empowered more women than pretty much any other game, even if just by accident, and even if only a fraction of their female playerbase feels empowered by the game.

 

[captmorgan]

You don't have to make a woman powerful to make her an interesting character. For example lets take a mother, an older woman, who looks a bit like Katjaa from TWD, and put her in, for e.g. The Sprawl from Dead Space 2. The necromorph outbreak is happening, and you need to guide this mother character through the sprawl in a stealth style game with limited combat in order to find her husband and children. You could explore all sorts of interesting concepts, such as whether you should try to save your children or yourself, making desicions on who to rescue and who to leave, all while trying to avoid going mad from the markers influence. You could even do it on a small budget and make it a download game.

Why wouldnt you just shoot her in the back of the head and save yourself? Really escort missions suck.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

It's not about whether or not women who play games are offended by sexy clothing. It's about the fact that this kind of art style (and more importantly the attitude that Blizz displayed in this interview) is reinforcing a paradigm that puts many women off from games entirely.

As I said, there's no need for Blizzard to design their games to no put off women. Is up to them to design the game they want. Why they should design/make a game they down't want to make?.

 

[Slavik81]

I hope these unprofessional fucks never get an interview again. Yeah, let's start ranting in the middle of the interview about our cause, that's a good idea! Holy shit at the stunt, pathetic.

That seems a little extreme.

 

[OriginalNameGuy]

Seems like he stopped asking questions and began telling Browder how he should feel towards the end there.

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

Also observing/critiquing video games through a feminist lens (or marxist or any other way) is not an agenda it is simply a way to uncover subtle messages/values in the media that affect our society and shape our opinions. I forgot the proper terminology, should've paid more attention when I had to read it for college.

Edit- One thing, however, the interviewer did get all preachy which is pretty funny. On that he failed at his job, he needed to ask pointed questions to get interesting questions. Highly unprofessional.

 

[Dang0]

Why wouldnt you just shoot her in the back of the head and save yourself? Really escort missions suck.

I meant 'you' as the player, escorting the 'playable character', aka the mother.

 

[MormaPope]

Something I'll never understand is the female form in the majority of games. There are attractive women in reality that don't have large breasts, asses and hips don't need to be perfectly bubbled shaped. Female character designs are starting to mesh together in a boring way. What makes this art style offensive aren't the big breasts and big asses, its how boring and predictable that character form is.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Also observing/critiquing video games through a feminist lens (or marxist or any other way) is not an agenda it is simply a way to uncover subtle messages/values in the media that affect our society and shape our opinions. I forgot the proper terminology, should've paid more attention when I had to read it for college.

I'm pretty sure education has a way bigger role than games in the whole gender equatity thing. In the end appealing to sexual desires is just that, it won't make people into misogynists, what made them that way is when education fails them.

 

[Ryudo]

As I said, there's no need for Blizzard to design their games to no put off women. Is up to them to design the game they want. Why they should design/make a game they down't want to make?.

This is the core argument many fail to grasp. This is a business and while its nice and touchy feelie to pander for the extremist windbags who think their ideological views are somehow right for everyone and must be followed... at the end of the day free speech works both ways.

The day that creative art and story telling becomes regulated like a thermostat within a futile range is the day that we all lose. Stop whining and start doing.

 

[elohel]

this isn't a great way to present a hard hitting story

this person literally lied to someone on the spot, and that reaction is somehow twisted into validating an implied response?

 

[MormaPope]

This is the core argument many fail to grasp. This is a business and while its nice and touchy feelie to pander for the extremist windbags who think their ideological views are somehow right for everyone and must be followed... at the end of the day free speech works both ways.

The day that creative art and story telling becomes regulated like a thermostat within a futile range is the day that we all lose. Stop whining and start doing.

Uh, it isn't as black and white as you make it out to be, at least for most people. I absolutely love most of the art design from FFX, except for the main character Tidus. Tidus is dog vomit on a stick, giant yellow boots and suspenders that look like they were meant for a 12 year old. I'm also sorta bummed out in general how there hasn't been that many black protagonists, and I'm saying that as a white dude.

I love this medium and certainly don't want to force change if possible, but it would be nice if there was more variety or weird shit versus the same old same old.

 

[sleepykyo]

You don't have to make a woman powerful to make her an interesting character. For example lets take a mother, an older woman, who looks a bit like Katjaa from TWD, and put her in, for e.g. The Sprawl from Dead Space 2. The necromorph outbreak is happening, and you need to guide this mother character through the sprawl in a stealth style game with limited combat in order to find her husband and children. You could explore all sorts of interesting concepts, such as whether you should try to save your children or yourself, making desicions on who to rescue and who to leave, all while trying to avoid going mad from the markers influence. You could even do it on a small budget and make it a download game.

Time to put the RPS agenda glasses on:
In your misguided attempt to be progressive, why did you make the first female lead such an incompetent combatant when Isaac is so proficient in fighting necromorphs, despite being an engineer by profession? It is extremely patronizing to females in the armed service.

Is this a "Who Killed an Electric Car" example? Are you're intentionally sabotaging a female led Dead Space by giving it a low budget and taking the combat out?

Glasses off. Wow it is kind of fun acting like an asshole under the shield of social crusader. Which is what Nathan was doing (though I was considerably more blatant). He could have simply asked if any of the other alts or defaults were as sexualized as the roller derby alt.

 

[Guerilla]

The saddest part is that the interviewer will never even realize how ridiculous he was being, because he will just dismiss any detractors as roadblocks standing in the way of making the games industry a bastion of equality and acceptance.

That's what zealots do.

I'm sorry to admit this but I have an experience with this participating in activist groups that I quite like. For some zealots the fact that most people see them as crazy is all the other people's fault and none of theirs. They always use their agenda to the point it becomes obnoxious and they don't understand the difference between civil conversation and, for example, making insidious accusations against people as if that'll win their support.

Any sane dev will avoid these people from now on and it's perfectly understandable, not only because they're unpredictable but also because people like this will ALWAYS find something to demonize people who don't obey them.

 

[mechphree]

Is it that hard to make a female character not look like a slut/whore?

 

[thumb]

Something I'll never understand is the female form in the majority of games. There are attractive women in reality that don't have large breasts, asses and hips don't need to be perfectly bubbled shaped. Female character designs are starting to mesh together in a boring way. What makes this art style offensive aren't the big breasts and big asses, its how boring and predictable that character form is.

I agree. The issue for me is how tired and pandering the whole thing feels. I'm not offended (though I'm occasionally embarrased), but I just think the art tropes show a lack of variety and evolution.

 

[Mechanized]

I would agree that it is an ambush. From the way the tone of the questioning changed. They definitely went in with an agenda. At the same time Blizzard would probably never answer these types of questions otherwise without them going through the hands of like 10 different people. I think to attack a guy that's just doing his job is bullshit, there are better ways to get this message and forum for discussion going and the way RPS did it is pretty pathetic and useless. I guess they'll get a few page views out if though.

 

[Kuroyume]

Is it that hard to make a female character not look like a slut/whore?

What does a slut or whore look like?

 

[LAUGHTREY]

What is that quote by Itagaki? Something like, 'why wouldn't I make super beautiful women'?

Duh.

Jim Raynor and the Orcs also have arms the size of tree trunks and barrel chests out to there. It's fiction, it's hyper-reality.

Also; don't be afraid of sexy. Sexy is good, why wouldn't it be?

 

[markot]

Don't forget Tyrande. In WC3 they upturned all the stereotypes and made the women the warriors, while the men were sleepy druids.

Haha?

Sexy female amazons is an upturned sterotype? In wow they even did a little bounce on the spot. Cause you know, women like to jiggle!

And the dances in wow? Women? Sexxxxxy! Men? Funny!

Blizzard is one of the worst perpetrators of this kind of stuff.

Their males are uber muscle neanderthals. Their women? Quaint and dainty. Kind of sexual dimorphism you rarely see in nature.

And they do it for sales, cause their target audience is men, nerds mainly, who like their women to be sexy, their men to be manly.

Dwarfs dont count, or gnomes, cause theyre not 'sexy' races historically. But look at the rest. Dranei? Orcs? you name it, they always sexualise the females, to an absurd extent, and make the males muscle bound freaks.

Also, calling Jainas dress conservative? Explosed midriff, ample cleavege, and in the snow.

Name one 'sexy' male in warcraft or most of their universes. Even when they made a 'sexy' male race in blood elves, they had to make it a joke.

Males are usually, at least, 2 times the size of females, and are generally to the naked eye, not of the same species. Its not by chance.

The industry is awful at this stuff, and people who defend it are oft moranical.

 

[Bailers]

I would actually love to know how many women are really offended by this stuff.

Also I think it's funny that most of the people complaining would feel just fine if the stomach was covered or if the boobs were one size smaller. I wonder who thinks less of women.,,,

I have a feeling it is a small number of women who are overshadowed by the larger number of men who feel they have to be gender warriors in order to not come off as sexist.

 

[Dang0]

Time to put the RPS agenda glasses on:
In your misguided attempt to be progressive, why did you make the first female lead such an incompetent combatant when Isaac is so proficient in fighting necromorphs, despite being an engineer by profession? It is extremely patronizing to females in the armed service.

Is this a "Who Killed an Electric Car" example? Are you're intentionally sabotaging a female led Dead Space by giving it a low budget and taking the combat out?

Glasses off. Wow it is kind of fun acting like an asshole under the shield of social crusader. Which is what Nathan was doing (though I was considerably more blatant). He could have simply asked if any of the other alts or defaults were as sexualized as the roller derby alt.

I know your joking but I figured I'd answer seriously.

The reason my example depowered the mother was to show how different styles of protagonists could inspire different gamestyles. From a story perspective, the mother wouldn't have experience in using tools such as the plasma cutter, or access to an armored engineer suit or tools. It would also increase the horror in the title.

And as for the lower budget, a stealth title starring a plain looking woman is a risky project for a big publisher if it gets AAA funding. Having a smaller budget, it would be a safer prospect. You could reuse assets and the dead space engine, and the success of Amnesia and Outlast shows theres a market for smaller, more horror focused titles. Even if the game bombs it could still be considered a 'prestige' title, like how hollywood has smaller, more personal films. It would also give a boost to EA, even if the game ends up sucking, due to its progressiveness.

 

[markot]

Haha.

Great.

Blame people who bring this up for being the 'real' problem.

 

[FlyinJ]

Ambushed?

Every goddamn journalist for the past 20 years should have been asking this exact same question.

It's an absolute embarrassment that it has taken this long for anyone to even broach the subject, and thank god people are starting to ask the question.

Hopefully other game journalists will follow suit and we can finally get something done about it.

 

[HK-47]

Haha?

Sexy female amazons is an upturned sterotype? In wow they even did a little bounce on the spot. Cause you know, women like to jiggle!

And the dances in wow? Women? Sexxxxxy! Men? Funny!

Blizzard is one of the worst perpetrators of this kind of stuff.

Their males are uber muscle neanderthals. Their women? Quaint and dainty. Kind of sexual dimorphism you rarely see in nature.

And they do it for sales, cause their target audience is men, nerds mainly, who like their women to be sexy, their men to be manly.

Dwarfs dont count, or gnomes, cause theyre not 'sexy' races historically. But look at the rest. Dranei? Orcs? you name it, they always sexualise the females, to an absurd extent, and make the males muscle bound freaks.

Also, calling Jainas dress conservative? Explosed midriff, ample cleavege, and in the snow.

Name one 'sexy' male in warcraft or most of their universes. Even when they made a 'sexy' male race in blood elves, they had to make it a joke.

Males are usually, at least, 2 times the size of females, and are generally to the naked eye, not of the same species. Its not by chance.

The industry is awful at this stuff, and people who defend it are oft moranical.

lol I was waiting for someone to call him on Jaina's dress being conservative.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Haha?

Sexy female amazons is an upturned sterotype? In wow they even did a little bounce on the spot. Cause you know, women like to jiggle!

And the dances in wow? Women? Sexxxxxy! Men? Funny!

Blizzard is one of the worst perpetrators of this kind of stuff.

Their males are uber muscle neanderthals. Their women? Quaint and dainty. Kind of sexual dimorphism you rarely see in nature.

And they do it for sales, cause their target audience is men, nerds mainly, who like their women to be sexy, their men to be manly.

Dwarfs dont count, or gnomes, cause theyre not 'sexy' races historically. But look at the rest. Dranei? Orcs? you name it, they always sexualise the females, to an absurd extent, and make the males muscle bound freaks.

Also, calling Jainas dress conservative? Explosed midriff, ample cleavege, and in the snow.

Name one 'sexy' male in warcraft or most of their universes. Even when they made a 'sexy' male race in blood elves, they had to make it a joke.

Males are usually, at least, 2 times the size of females, and are generally to the naked eye, not of the same species. Its not by chance.

The industry is awful at this stuff, and people who defend it are oft moranical.

Regular runway model here.

 

[Bailers]

Ambushed?

Every goddamn journalist for the past 20 years should have been asking this exact same question.

It's an absolute embarrassment that it has taken this long for anyone to even broach the subject, and thank god people are starting to ask the question.

Hopefully other game journalists will follow suit and we can finally get something done about it.

What exactly DO you want done about it?

 

[Jathaine]

What does a slut or whore look like?

I couldn't describe it... but I know it when I see it!

 

[FlyinJ]

What exactly DO you want done about it?

Is this a serious question?

Stop hyper-sexualizing every female character you create.

Done, problem solved.

 

[Kuroyume]

Is this a serious question?

Stop hyper-sexualizing every female character you create.

Done, problem solved.

It's not hyper sexual though. Maybe you guys live in amish land or something?

 

[old]

Wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard doesn't grant RPS anymore interviews.

 

[Shinta]

Is this a serious question?

Stop hyper-sexualizing every female character you create.

Done, problem solved.

Make your games the way I want! Because, morality.

 

[ShadyJ]

Its not about whether a game is good, its not about whether a game is bad, its not about the graphics anymore..

Now its about SOCIAL JUSTICE, that will dictate reviews and previews.