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RTTP: Banjo Kazooie N&B

W

Why For?

Banned
Yeah, I bought this when it came out and picked up my free download for Banjo XBLA, and promptly put the disc in and started, I must admit, the first 20-30 minutes really turned me off initially because I was in the middle of a big backlog at the time and had just bought a couple of other 'more important' games so I let it sit.

December 26 comes, biggest shopping day in Australia and I picked up an Arcade for my little cousin for $199AU and it came with Banjo. So I went to his house to set it up for him and watched him play Banjo, and it gave me a bit of an itch to get back into it...

So glad I fucking did.

I can't believe how great this game is. I think the biggest issue it faced for many (especially young ones) is that first 20 minutes of tutorial/explanation. There's just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much of it, but unfortunately, a game this deep kinda needs it.

But once you push through that grind there is just a phenomenal game waiting to be played.

So much freedom, so much experimentation, and in the, a lot of fun too. It helps that it's one of the best looking games on consoles. Rare did an awesome job with it. For a game that contained so much and looked so good to still have photo mode, video replays and multiplayer is just awesome.

When I jumped into the game again, I found I had barely scratched the surface of what I could do, but now that I've delved a lot deeper, I can't believe I ignored this game for so long, and it's criminal how underrated this game actually is.

Hopefully there's others on GAF in the same situation who will hopefully go back to it, and for 360 owners who don't have it, at the price they sell it for now, it's a no brainer to pick up if you like platformers.

Seriously, it IS a platformer. Great game.
 
I just bought it yesterday, I had rented it about a year ago and completely forgot what I was doing. I'm sort of playing catch up right now. It's weird, the game isn't clicking for me at all but there's just something about the Banjo atmosphere that draws me in and I remember the game getting tons of praise here, so I'll just keep on keeping on.
 
This game is bloody fantastic--I just started replaying it a couple of nights ago. I'm in complete agreement that the game's opening gameplay sequence is less than stellar, but once you get into the groove, it becomes one of the shining moments of this generation.

One of the few games that actually makes meaningful implementation of user-created content within the confines of the story mode itself.

Brilliant.
 
It's not a platformer, nor is it an action-adventure game. Make no mistake.

It is however, totally fucking awesome. I went and got all the trophies and jiggies and enjoyed the hell out of it. The DLC is also quite good, but it was a little bit too hard for me to complete all the way through. Best exclusive that the 360 has, imo. It's just too bad that the demo was so awful and the first hour or so of the game is pretty weak. A lot of people got too turned off to give it a proper chance.

That said, I don't want a sequel at all and I really want them to go back to the original formula.
 
redbarchetta said:
Only if they learned their lesson after Banjo-Tooie.
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I don't think that they're so dim that they can't improve on the formula of a ten year old game. A new Banjo game on a machine as powerful as the 360 would be amazing.
 
autobzooty said:
I don't think that they're so dim that they can't improve on the formula of a ten year old game. A new Banjo game on a machine as powerful as the 360 would be amazing.
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One could say the same thing about Mario Sunshine, which imo, was vastly inferior to Mario 64.

Granted, if Rare could offer something more in vein of the first BK, rather than the second, I'd be all for it. But if they fall back on the old "bigger is better" school of thought, I'd rather they focused their efforts elsewhere (which is why we ended up with the fantastic Nuts and Bolts).
 
I didn't enjoy it as much as BK & BT, but it was still a very good game. I actually liked it so much that I got all the jiggies in the game. Well actually now that I think about it I got all the jiggies except for that damn Saucer of Peril.
 
redbarchetta said:
One could say the same thing about Mario Sunshine, which imo, was vastly inferior to Mario 64.

Granted, if Rare could offer something more in vein of the first BK, rather than the second, I'd be all for it. But if they fall back on the old "bigger is better" school of thought, I'd rather they focused their efforts elsewhere (which is why we ended up with the fantastic Nuts and Bolts).
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Well I think that Tooie is far and away better than Kazooie, so I guess that's where we disconnect :P

I like having a huge world to explore. In these games, bigger IS better, as long as you fill up the huge spaces with interesting things to do.
I find collecting items interesting. That's probably an important thing to know about me.
 
This is serious.
IMO, IMO....One of the best games ever created. The amount of creativity and fun it lets you have is limitless. I thought something like this would actually come from Nintendo.
 
brandonh83 said:
I just bought it yesterday, I had rented it about a year ago and completely forgot what I was doing. I'm sort of playing catch up right now. It's weird, the game isn't clicking for me at all but there's just something about the Banjo atmosphere that draws me in and I remember the game getting tons of praise here, so I'll just keep on keeping on.
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Well in the beginning, I didn't really like it as much, but I continued playing it and starting to like it a lot the the farther I got in the game. Right now, I feel like playing through the game again because I loved the atmosphere in the game.
 
autobzooty said:
I find collecting items interesting. That's probably an important thing to know about me.
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You can get help for that, y'know :lol

Seriously, I hear ya--I don't mind collecting things either, when it's done well (star in Galaxy, jiggies in banjo). I just found that they went a bit overboard with Tooie, what with having something like a dozen things to gather? I'm not a fan of stat-tracking, especially in my platformers! =P
 
autobzooty said:
That said, I don't want a sequel at all and I really want them to go back to the original formula.
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Same. The thing is the visuals are amazing and the movement/platforming controls are very good. They have the foundation for a fantastic traditional Banjo game there. Shame that we won't get it and the next thing they do with him will likely be something with Natal.
 
redbarchetta said:
You can get help for that, y'know :lol

Seriously, I hear ya--I don't mind collecting things either, when it's done well (star in Galaxy, jiggies in banjo). I just found that they went a bit overboard with Tooie, what with having something like a dozen things to gather? I'm not a fan of stat-tracking, especially in my platformers! =P
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I enjoyed it even in its extreme moments in Tooie. The thing I didn't like about Tooie was transforming into gimped and slow moving creatures and objects, and using Mumbo. Moving around the universe became soooo slow because you couldn't fly or talon trot or even grab a fucking ledge. This made collecting things tedious, but it wasn't the fault of the nature of collectathons. It was just annoying to be forced to give up your huge arsenal of moves for a little while, yet still asked to navigate the same things.

A similar problem happened in DK64, in which you have to do a ton of exploring as one Kong, then go switch to another Kong and pick up all the items that only they can pick up for some reason. It made it annoying to have to travel to the same areas over and over in a huge world. Again, not a problem with collecting objects or hunting for trinkets, it was a broader problem with the way they set up the game.

If a Banjo-Threeie ever does come out, I hope they realize that being transformed by Humba and switching to Mumbo were the worst parts of that game.
 
Nuts & Bolts was an awesome game, but my favourite thing about it was really just in how many places it could have seen improvement, because it just went to show how a cleaned-up sequel would seriously be one of the best games ever.

Too bad we'll probably never get it.
 
redbarchetta said:
One of the few games that actually makes meaningful implementation of user-created content within the confines of the story mode itself.

Brilliant.
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Bingo.
Nobody has attempted what they pulled off to that degree..and I assume Rare (realizing the brilliance and potential in that concept) are working on expanding upon it and incorporating it into other types of games.

..Because I'm positive, someone out there is working to perfect/nail that concept for a game that is easy/accessible to younger people and not intimidating to non-creative types.
 
Got to about the third world and had to pack it in. I know I probably missed out on a lot of the vehicle stuff, but the worlds seemed so lifeless and boring.
 
I was very disappointed with Nuts & Bolts. Personally something I don't like in games is to be timed, and everything in that glorified minigame collection had a countdown.

I preordered the game for the BK XBLA code and got two of those so I still consider it money well spent.
 
elektrixxx said:
I was very disappointed with Nuts & Bolts. Personally something I don't like in games is to be timed, and everything in that glorified minigame collection had a countdown.
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I don't think those words mean what you think they do.
 
In b4 Nintex

Good game, but always kept playing while wanting to play this platformer style
 
I like it in general but the fact that pretty much the whole game is nothing but timed challenges started to grate on me. I should go back and finish it though.
 
autobzooty said:
I enjoyed it even in its extreme moments in Tooie. The thing I didn't like about Tooie was transforming into gimped and slow moving creatures and objects, and using Mumbo. Moving around the universe became soooo slow because you couldn't fly or talon trot or even grab a fucking ledge. This made collecting things tedious, but it wasn't the fault of the nature of collectathons. It was just annoying to be forced to give up your huge arsenal of moves for a little while, yet still asked to navigate the same things.

A similar problem happened in DK64, in which you have to do a ton of exploring as one Kong, then go switch to another Kong and pick up all the items that only they can pick up for some reason. It made it annoying to have to travel to the same areas over and over in a huge world. Again, not a problem with collecting objects or hunting for trinkets, it was a broader problem with the way they set up the game.

If a Banjo-Threeie ever does come out, I hope they realize that being transformed by Humba and switching to Mumbo were the worst parts of that game.
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Kazooie just had more charm than Tooie imo. It's like they used up all the cool ideas in Kazooie. It had better levels, a better hub world, better transformations, etc. Tooie is great in its own right, and from a technical standpoint it's superior. I'll even go as far to say that there's more variety in terms of the ways you obtain jiggies and other collectables. The game just feels bland compared to Kazooie.
 
Loved this game. Would have loved a traditional platformer more but this was definitely a nice spin off.

The game looks simply amazing.
 
hyduK said:
Kazooie just had more charm than Tooie imo. It's like they used up all the cool ideas in Kazooie. It had better levels, a better hub world, better transformations, etc. Tooie is great in its own right, and from a technical standpoint it's superior. I'll even go as far to say that there's more variety in terms of the ways you obtain jiggies and other collectables. The game just feels bland compared to Kazooie.
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Only if you forget about the framerate :lol
 
I really wanted to like this game. It started out boring, got kind of fun for a while, and then I lost interest again. The vehicle handling was probably my biggest gripe. Having a vehicle with a good design mitigated the problem somewhat, but it still felt off.
 
I keep hearing stories recently of people who were initially disenchanted with the game who ended up loving it after coming back later and giving it a chance. I bought it on a whim a few months ago and was mildly intrigued until the first actual stage where the goal was to use some crappy vehicle to push around some balls. That part was just so uninteresting that I stopped playing and immediately started working on some other games in my backlog. I haven't been back to the game since, but I still have it. I think I might give it an honest chance pretty soon. Maybe after Mass Effect 2.
 
This is probably my favourite game of 2008. The game just looks fantastic. Maybe it's because I played this game after gears of war 2 and resistance 2 but the amount of colour in this game amazed me.

I would love the next banjo game to be a proper platformer but I would also love to release a Conker: Nuts and Bolts. That'd have some awesome weapons :)
 
2hcf7eh.gif
 
Missions were criminally boring. I wanted to like this game so much but checked out after realizing there were only 3 or 4 different types of missions, the majority of which relying on janky ass combats or collision. Or worse, removed the awesome vehicle building parts completely. I dare anyone not to be bored to death by the xbox level where you raced around as microchips. Which were essentially bricks with eight wheels stuck on the side. Though I suppose the game deserves credit for getting the terrible physics of that correct.
 
Great game. I hope they continue this as a spin-off series and continue with Banjo 3 for the true experience.

Even though I really enjoy N&B, I really only enjoy the hub world. I didn't find any of the levels that appealing to replay; especially the 360 level, but I could and did spend hours creating vehicles, exploring the hub world, and trying to goof around with all the stuff. I just found the actual game levels a little empty.
 
I agree with those who say the game doesn't need/shouldn't get a sequel.

It's perfect as it is, and should stand alone in gaming.

If they reprise Banjo, it should be as the true successor to the originals. I FULLY understand why Rare made the decision they made, but in all honesty THEY need to understand there is a LARGE portion of the gaming community that DID want nothing more than a HD Banjo Kazooie collect-a-thon.

I don't see why they can't go with that next.

But then again, they're working on Natal now, so there's a chance we'll see a sequel to Nuts and Bolts putting cars together with Natal?

Either way N&B is HORRIBLY horribly underrated.

Every time I play it now, it FREAKS me out how amazing it looks.
 
Zefah said:
I keep hearing stories recently of people who were initially disenchanted with the game who ended up loving it after coming back later and giving it a chance. I bought it on a whim a few months ago and was mildly intrigued until the first actual stage where the goal was to use some crappy vehicle to push around some balls. That part was just so uninteresting that I stopped playing and immediately started working on some other games in my backlog. I haven't been back to the game since, but I still have it. I think I might give it an honest chance pretty soon. Maybe after Mass Effect 2.
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To be fair, the LOG's Challenge missions (where you're given a pre-set vehicle) are pretty awful unless you're already really digging the game. Sometimes it's fun to rebuild them on the fly during the mission, but in general you're probably better off just trying them once and moving on if you don't find it fun, or avoiding them in the first place. I think there's really only a couple that you're required to do to beat the game.
 
Why For? said:
Yeah, I bought this when it came out and picked up my free download for Banjo XBLA, and promptly put the disc in and started, I must admit, the first 20-30 minutes really turned me off initially because I was in the middle of a big backlog at the time and had just bought a couple of other 'more important' games so I let it sit.

December 26 comes, biggest shopping day in Australia and I picked up an Arcade for my little cousin for $199AU and it came with Banjo. So I went to his house to set it up for him and watched him play Banjo, and it gave me a bit of an itch to get back into it...

So glad I fucking did.

I can't believe how great this game is. I think the biggest issue it faced for many (especially young ones) is that first 20 minutes of tutorial/explanation. There's just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much of it, but unfortunately, a game this deep kinda needs it.

But once you push through that grind there is just a phenomenal game waiting to be played.

So much freedom, so much experimentation, and in the, a lot of fun too. It helps that it's one of the best looking games on consoles. Rare did an awesome job with it. For a game that contained so much and looked so good to still have photo mode, video replays and multiplayer is just awesome.

When I jumped into the game again, I found I had barely scratched the surface of what I could do, but now that I've delved a lot deeper, I can't believe I ignored this game for so long, and it's criminal how underrated this game actually is.

Hopefully there's others on GAF in the same situation who will hopefully go back to it, and for 360 owners who don't have it, at the price they sell it for now, it's a no brainer to pick up if you like platformers.

Seriously, it IS a platformer. Great game.
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Was easily in my top 5 for 2008. Loved it. Looks great too.
 
redbarchetta said:
Only if you forget about the framerate :lol
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This is true :lol :lol . I'm blinded by the fact that when that game came out I didn't pay much attention to those things (for better or worse, I suppose).
 
redbarchetta said:
Well, I can assure you that it was not.

Seems we're at a stalemate :lol
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I've revisited both games many, many times and it becomes more and more clear each time that BT is just a much better game.

It has an incredible level of depth, exploration and detail that BK couldn't even come close to touching. The connections between worlds and the puzzles that interlap between them reach a level of genius that BK never did. It's a huge game, but unlike DK64, it's not to its detriment. Each world is awe-inspiring in its size, yet Rare managed to ensure that there was little wasted space in the game. Nearly everything has a purpose.

In fact, it's the closest thing to a Metroid game on the N64. Even though we never did get one, the template on BT is amazingly similar. By learning new moves, Tooie gives you the ability to reach more areas and items that were previously inaccessible. It constantly teases you, edging you on to keep exploring before you finally obtain the correct move in order to reach the area that you previously could not access. And the game prospers as a result. It's very well crafted.

I love the charm of BK - and it's nowhere near as depressingly dreary as BT - but as a game it is simply inferior. It's not just that BT is bigger - because often that can be destrimental. It's just that it delivers what was great about BK but brings it into a new realm of excellence. It's a very different game but at the same time a much improved one.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
I've revisited both games many, many times and it becomes more and more clear each time that BT is just a much better game.
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As have I, including both on the original consoles and again on XBLA. For me, the inverse is true: I'm constantly reminded of why I enjoyed BK much more.

_Alkaline_ said:
It has an incredible level of depth, exploration and detail that BK couldn't even come close to touching. The connections between worlds and the puzzles that interlap between them reach a level of genius that BK never did
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What you call "genius" I call "tedious."

_Alkaline_ said:
It's a huge game, but unlike DK64, it's not to its detriment. Each world is awe-inspiring in its size, yet Rare managed to ensure that there was little wasted space in the game.
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Bigger =/= better. I felt the levels lost the quaintness they had in the original. And were much more confusing and less fun to explore as a result.


_Alkaline_ said:
In fact, it's the closest thing to a Metroid game on the N64. Even though we never did get one, the template on BT is amazingly similar
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And I don't play Banjo for Metroid.

_Alkaline_ said:
By learning new moves, Tooie gives you the ability to reach more areas and items that were previously inaccessible. It constantly teases you, edging you on to keep exploring before you finally obtain the correct move in order to reach the area that you previously could not access. And the game prospers as a result.
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BK did that as well, just to a lesser--and thereby more meaninful (imo) degree. Every move had significance in BK, in BT many were reduced to mere keys to overcome a barrier or two.

_Alkaline_ said:
I love the charm of BK - and it's nowhere near as depressingly dreary as BT - but as a game it is simply inferior.
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Nope. But we can argue about this all day--you have your reasons for liking BT more, and I have mine for preferring BK. Neither of us will be able to say anything that will change what we felt when we played them.
 
N&B is still the best Xbox 360 game I've played. I know that I was one of many who thought the demo was crap, but I still went ahead and bought it, and boy am I happy I did. I still need to go back and collect 100% of everything, and then actually play through the free XBLA game I also got :lol

Anyone know if the online leaderboards/videos are accessible to Silver users or is that a Gold only feature?
 
After getting all the Jiggys, I felt the game was okay, but they could have done way more with the concept. Missions lack variety and flow. Tooie's 'missions' had tons more variety. Plus the levels themselves felt so empty and lifeless compared to Showdown Town. While the concept was imaginative, the gameplay was anything but.
 
definitely one of my favorite games this gen.

it did a lot of stuff differently, and i think it did them really well, which i really appreciated.

a bit more mission diversity, some more exploration, and losing that stupid f'n rail shooter in the arboretum world.
 
Mojo said:
After getting all the Jiggys, I felt the game was okay, but they could have done way more with the concept. Missions lack variety and flow. Tooie's 'missions' had tons more variety. Plus the levels themselves felt so empty and lifeless compared to Showdown Town. While the concept was imaginative, the gameplay was anything but.
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I don't agree for the most part. I'll give you that compared to Showdown Town the other levels feel largely lifeless but I think the gameplay was well designed to compliment the core of the game, building the perfect vehicle to accomplish what the game asks you to.

Sure if you go in looking for a pure platformer or want a broad range of things to do ala SM Galaxy then you are going to be disappointed but I enjoyed the vehicle building so much that the game itself more than kept me interested for the 20+ hours I put into it.

I'll expect more from a sequel but as a proof of concept and the first game in what is basically a new series I really dug Nuts and Bolts.
 
I thought they made the missions too easy.
Except for the ones where you used premade vehicles (which, albeit creative, were a bitch to use) the missions boiled down to around three basic types of vehicles, with land/air variations.
You had your speedy ass vehicle with foldable wings, a heliicopter with the sticky ball, and a bigass battletank with foldable propellers. You could pretty much complete all of your missions right there. Many of the races were too easy as well because you could add wings and BAM, you flew over all obstacles.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game and occasionally pop it back in, but really, the only difficult missions were the ones where you needed to use premade vehicles. Grunty was a joke because you could pretty consistently destroy her ship using Kazooie missiles and the grenade launchers.
 
redbarchetta said:
As have I, including both on the original consoles and again on XBLA. For me, the inverse is true: I'm constantly reminded of why I enjoyed BK much more.
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Such a shame that a man with a Crystalis avatar, which would normally suggest a prominent level of taste, tarnishes it with the above. ;)
 
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