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[Pimpbaa]

Geforce 4200/4600/4800 series - DirectX8
Radeon 9800 - DirectX9
Geforce 8800GTX - DirectX10

All of the above are THE best in the history of gaming. Cards introduced at DirectX inflection point have turned out awesome, if past is anything to go by.

Yeah. The Radeon 9800 was a good performer for a very long time. Same with the 8800 (so much so that nvidia keep rebranding it and releasing it again and again :lol)

 

[Lovely Salsa]

For what are we supposed to upgrade PCs for? Its not like there are games getting released to "it"

But good to know that next generation consoles will be one hella of powahousa

 

[Kevin]

I have an 8800gt OC that has held up very well for me and I am completely willing to plop down the $500-$600 for a brand new GPU but I won't spend that kind of money until GPU's can get well over 60FPS on games like Crysis and GTA4. I don't think that's asking much since Crysis is almost two years old now and GTA 4 has been on Xbox for a long time. Being realistic, GPU speed increases have been going very slow in recent years and I can't help but think... milkage!

Which made this article rather laughable and unbelievable.

 

[rohlfinator]

You got to look at the sources and weed them out. TR is nothing but a relay for that rumor, source is crap. I'd take PowerColor's word over any rumor mongering website any day of the week.

Well I guess I trust TR not to relay bad information. The same story was posted on TR, the Anandtech forums, and HardOCP forums, and so far you're the only person I've seen who has questioned BSON's credibility.

And as I said earlier, "PowerColor's word" says absolutely nothing about the specifics of the card other than its price. It could be a $300 5670 for all we know.

For what are we supposed to upgrade PCs for? Its not like there are games getting released to "it"

wat

 

[jakonovski]

For what are we supposed to upgrade PCs for? Its not like there are games getting released to "it"

But good to know that next generation consoles will be one hella of powahousa

WoW Cataclysm water effects.

 

[DSN2K]

Radeon 9800 - DirectX9

fair point there, amazing card for its time but it wasnt ATI's first DX9 card...that was 9700Pro what it self was a great card but it was its revison what everyone remembers.

R300 line in general was class.

 

[Xdrive05]

I'm a little cautious about buying a first gen DX11 card. I remember how the first DX10 cards were really not ready to run DX10 well in pretty much anything. I'll need hard evidence that these cards will run the first DX11 games as well as my GTX 260 c216 runs DX10 games now before I'll consider upgrading.

Otherwise I can wait six more months for a refresh (a'la the 8800gt treatment).

 

[tokkun]

fair point there, amazing card for its time but it wasnt ATI's first DX9 card...that was 9700Pro what it self was a great card but it was its revison what everyone remembers.

R300 line in general was class.

I thought the 9700 Pro was what everyone remembered. $299 and completely dominant over the GeForce FX series.

 

[jakonovski]

It would also be nice to actually get a DX11 game.

 

[Kevin]

Is there any good DX11 samples available to see what we can expect in terms of visuals?

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

fair point there, amazing card for its time but it wasnt ATI's first DX9 card...that was 9700Pro what it self was a great card but it was its revison what everyone remembers.

R300 line in general was class.

Really? I thought everyone remembers the 9700 Pro, since it was such an absurd quantum leap. I keep a 9700 Pro at my work desk for the memories.

Edit: BEAT! Whew. I loved that card.

 

[shinjijai]

Anand Tech's article on DX11.

 

[dionysus]

It would also be nice to actually get a DX11 game.

It would be nice to get a DX10 designed game first.

 

[jakonovski]

It would be nice to get a DX10 designed game first.

I'd settle for just a PC exclusive. It's been a year since Crysis Warhead, and only MMOs since.

 

[dionysus]

Not true but I know what you are getting at. Sadly, the days of too many big budget exclusive PC games to play in a year are long behind us. The pc market today consists of superior multiplatform titles, many games in exclusive niche genres, and the occasional big budget pc exclusive.

 

[Kevin]

Microsoft gobbles up the good games and makes them exclusive to Xbox and kills any chance for them to come out on the PC (Halo 3, Gears 2, Fable 2, to name a few).

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

STALKER: Call of Pripyat not gonna do it for ya ?

 

[evlcookie]

More fud! Don't think it's been posted, i could be wrong

ATI to launch five 40nm DX11 GPUs

Most of them in late September

The top guy that stayed in AMD after ATI acquisition, Rick Bergman has come up with a plan how to deceive journalists and partners and try to keep the graphics plans for itself, until very close to launch. We know that some other people also claim that they invented this strategy, but a few people in AMD told us it was Bergman.

We can give him credit as he did quite a good job. We know that Evergreen is the codename for the whole generation but now we got more details. R800 dual chip is codenamed Hemlock, top single chip card is Cypress while performance runner up codename (replacement for 4850) is codenamed Juniper. Redwood is the codename for a DirectX 11 card with new 3D engine, PCIe 2.0 and UVD2.0 in 40nm and this card should replace RV740 /RV730 cards.

The slowest of new DirectX 11 cards is codenamed Cedar and all of the are sharing the same basic spec that includes DirectX 11, new 3D engine (more shaders), PCIe.2.0 and UVD 2.0, all done in the new 40nm process.

Charlie has used many of these names if not all at his site here, but this is the first time we can confirm them from our sources.

 

[artist]

Well I guess I trust TR not to relay bad information. The same story was posted on TR, the Anandtech forums, and HardOCP forums, and so far you're the only person I've seen who has questioned BSON's credibility.

And as I said earlier, "PowerColor's word" says absolutely nothing about the specifics of the card other than its price. It could be a $300 5670 for all we know.


wat

I'm the FIRST one to question Bull Shit News' credibility? lol no. Theo (the guy who plagiurizes) is the worst of his kind and was called out by Charlie some time back. Read this & this. The funny thing is Theo was caught earlier plagiurizing a story from ... Tech Report :lol so yeah, the guy has got a pretty rabid record. Out of all the former Inq staff (Fudo, Charlie, Theo) Theo is the worst in terms of track record and in terms of credibility and honesty.

fair point there, amazing card for its time but it wasnt ATI's first DX9 card...that was 9700Pro what it self was a great card but it was its revison what everyone remembers.

R300 line in general was class.

Yeah, my bad. I should've said 9700 Pro.

Oh by the way, shader count for Cypress & Juniper pretty much confirmed.

And the Cypress shader count is...

WHEN WE HEARD the specs of Evergreen, the scene was one of jaws hanging down and people almost falling backwards into the snowy ground. The only question at that point was, could TSMC make them on the 40nm process?

The real question that everyone is speculating about is the shader count. It is 1600 for Cypress, 800 for Juniper, going down from there. If clocks stay at their targets, more or less where the current R770 is, that should put the DX11 Cypress right on top of the GTX295 for a rumored $100 or so lower price, plus all the added features.

The GTX285 will almost assuredly get creamed by the cheaper low end Cypress/5850, and the pain waterfalls down the stack from there. The 180mm^2 or so Juniper will basically equal the 4870's performance for far lower cost to AMD, putting pressure on the low end GT200b parts and really hurting whatever Nvidia renames the G92 to this week.

Memory is also interesting, with Evergreen parts using up to 1.25/2.5/5GHz GDDR5. Contrary to many rumors, the upcoming GDDR5+ won't debut until the next generation cards. That means the 1/2/4ish GHz RAM chips used on the 4870/4890 are no longer top bin, nor do they command top bin pricing. AMD will be able to launch 'cheap' Evergreens with GDDR5, halving pin count over GDDR3, lessening PCB layer count and the attendant cost and defect rate. Compare and contrast this to the Nvidia roadmap.

If AMD follows it's usual form, we will see the main two cards, 5870 and 5850, coming out together, or one shortly after the other. AMD will comfortably have the lead until the GT300 appears, if it can be made.

Should Nvidia be able to top Cypress, Hemlock is in the wings to stuff Nvidia back into a hole. Nvidia is unlikely to be able to yield enough parts to make anything more than press samples for a dual GT300 board.

So in the end, depending on TSMC bins and the alignment of Saturn and Pluto in late September, we should see the best Nvidia has relegated to the mid-tier, $125 and under parts bin. Considering it sells GTX285 kits for that much, it's going to be very hard for Nvidia to make money in Q4 and Q1/2010. Like we have been saying, Q3 is ugly, but Q4 looks like it'll be far worse if you are wearing green in Santa Clara.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/03/and-cypress-shader-count/

Supposedly the 5670 (Juniper) is as fast as the current GTX280. Even if its slightly slower, man that'd be one fucking awesome card for an HTPC.

Sounds like this is coming true.

 

[Blizzard]

Now if we could only get game developers to stop making exlusive deals for stuff like PhysX and nVidia (the way it's meant to be played).

I have nothing against nVidia per se, but I'd prefer to be able to choose and still get the options if possible.

 

[artist]

Now if we could only get game developers to stop making exlusive deals for stuff like PhysX and nVidia (the way it's meant to be played).

I have nothing against nVidia per se, but I'd prefer to be able to choose and still get the options if possible.

I have no problem with the deals, its the COCK BLOCKING that Nvidia does with the adoption of a new DX version.

 

[Psy-Phi]

I'd settle for just a PC exclusive. It's been a year since Crysis Warhead, and only MMOs since.

Trine's still exclusive .

Demigod is awesome, Spore Galactic Adventures expands Spore into a game I can be proud to play, The Sims 3 is the best Sims yet, Empire: Total War is just fantastic. Dawn of War 2 is also a fantstic RTS.

Maybe you just hate good games? I think you just don't like the games that have been coming.

 

[Chris Remo]

I'd settle for just a PC exclusive. It's been a year since Crysis Warhead, and only MMOs since.

That's not true at all. There are tons of games released just on PC. Just browse around on Steam for a while. They just aren't the ones that are likely to show up on the top sellers list, which are (for obvious reasons) the more highly promoted, higher-budget mass market multiplatform titles.

There aren't many other exclusive graphical showcases like Crysis, but that's a different matter.

 

[Smelly Tramp]

I jumped in on release day last time for the 4850, fantastic card. Served me so well. My only cause for concern is the cooling provided on the cards. I had to turn to a third party cooler down the line as it was running at about 70 degrees idle. Have they said whether these new set of cards are going to be cooler? And is September 10th a definite release date?

 

[godhandiscen]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/03/and-cypress-shader-count/


"Should Nvidia be able to top Cypress, Hemlock is in the wings to stuff Nvidia back into a hole. Nvidia is unlikely to be able to yield enough parts to make anything more than press samples for a dual GT300 board."

Is Hemlock the 5870x2? Hmmm... juicy... fuck, thatwould be 4 generations of ATI x2 cards for me.

Trine's still exclusive .

Demigod is awesome, Spore Galactic Adventures expands Spore into a game I can be proud to play, The Sims 3 is the best Sims yet, Empire: Total War is just fantastic. Dawn of War 2 is also a fantstic RTS.

Maybe you just hate good games? I think you just don't like the games that have been coming.

An exclusive that doesn't get maxed with a 4850.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

for those wondering why they should upgrade so soon without any DX11 games out, i think it's more of a situation where these cards will run current games very easily, and more stable (less effort and oomph to do so) than what we are using now.

ie: replacing your big loud dual-slot card with one of these new DX11 single slot cards SHOULD (as we have no benchmarks yet) run faster, quieter, and cooler than what we are using now. this is the same situation as when the 8800 came out- didn't BLOW EVERYTHING OUT OF THE WATER, but it did a damn good job and wasn't busting ass to get stuff done.

i have a big, sometimes noisy, 4850 1gb ddr5, so if the 5870 is big and noisy i might go with the 5850. i really want 2gb though. (although i am easily fooled by card manufacturers putting the ram capacity of the higher end models on lower end chipped cards, so i should be careful with my money)

 

[rohlfinator]

I'm the FIRST one to question Bull Shit News' credibility? lol no. Theo (the guy who plagiurizes) is the worst of his kind and was called out by Charlie some time back. Read this & this. The funny thing is Theo was caught earlier plagiurizing a story from ... Tech Report :lol so yeah, the guy has got a pretty rabid record. Out of all the former Inq staff (Fudo, Charlie, Theo) Theo is the worst in terms of track record and in terms of credibility and honesty.

Fair enough dude. Like I said, this is the first I've heard of it.

Either way though, there's no point in making assumptions about pricing until we have more concrete info. Unlike specs, pricing could easily change dramatically up until the actual launch.

(And for what it's worth, the article you quoted implies that Cypress will be $400 -- the GTX 295 is still right around $500, right?)

 

[Wag]

Radeon 58xx Pricing Leaked

It's an Inquirer article so who knows how accurate it is (but they're stating it as fact)?

5870x2 for $599 anyone?

I think I'll wait for nvidia's cards to see what's what.

 

[evlcookie]

5870x2 is a bit rich for me so i will probably go for a 5850. My 4850 has been a dream so far with a custom cooler on it to make it a little less quiet.

 

[M3d10n]

What the fuck? If the 5670 really runs as fast as the 4870 without drawing as much power this means the start of a golden age.

 

[Tiduz]

5870x2 is a bit rich for me so i will probably go for a 5850. My 4850 has been a dream so far with a custom cooler on it to make it a little less quiet.

might want to edit that :lol

 

[evlcookie]

might want to edit that :lol

Oh yea. Typing at 7am doesn't work to well :lol . I think whoever reads it should get what i meant by it, hopefully.

 

[marsomega]

There have been a number of threads on gaf that have spoke very highly of them. Not sure I really get your complaint about the fps. People want them connected to high end video cards because 120fps is what you want the game being rendered at. This is the gold standard, because the more you compromise, the more eye fatigue is going to be an issue (since you're cutting that in half with the shutters.)

I was there with crowds at Blizzcon at the NVidia both demo'ing with others. Don't assume I saw it on cheap cards or I made it up. This was an NVidia display booth with serious hardware. The tech is really not for everyone. The complaint about the framerate stems from them using the current enthusiast to show how well it runs (on a 295 GTX) in an empty city (Shattrah) in world of warcraft and it not running as well in other places such as a Warsong Gulch match.

The glasses kept going out of sync too. (I've actually worked on the same technology and can recognize when the glasses aren't functioning properly.) Besides the eye strain the 3D effect was lost and you had a visual vibrating eye strain regularly.

It may be that World of Warcraft is not the game to show it off. The main point of my post is that even amongst the NVidia fans there drooling over the technology (until some tried it) it was certain that it isn't for everyone. This was a response to the person basically saying "NVidia has this, ATI should or it will be deemed a failure to some" comment.

Having worked on prototype glasses I am not of fan of the glasses used. The ones we developed although did provide an eye strain over time weren't as "strong" as these where I had to put it down after 2 minutes. Then again we used a method that provided high precision response when syncing our glasses to the frames.


Ok sorry to derail the thread.
I can't wait to see the new cards.

 

[squinters]

What the fuck? If the 5670 really runs as fast as the 4870 without drawing as much power this means the start of a golden age.

Wait, does that mean that it requires a smaller power supply too? I'd be so happy if I didn't have to upgrade my PSU when I get a new card.

 

[godhandiscen]

Radeon 58xx Pricing Leaked

It's an Inquirer article so who knows how accurate it is (but they're stating it as fact)?

5870x2 for $599 anyone?

I think I'll wait for nvidia's cards to see what's what.

Why is the 5870x2 just $600 while the 5870 is $400? Doesn't make sense to me.

I am also interested in Nvidia's announcement the day of ATI's launch.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Why is the 5870x2 just $600 while the 5870 is $400? Doesn't make sense to me.

They'll probably wait till next year to release it, by that time the 5870 will be around $299.

 

[godhandiscen]

They'll probably wait till next year to release it, by that time the 5870 will be around $299.

In the article it says that the upper end cards will release on the 10th. I don't know what to make of this. Maybe the 5870x2 isn't that much more powerful than a set of 5870's in crossfire. I am so glad I am playing the wait and see game this time around. I jumped too early this gen.

 

[jett]

It'd be nice if the 5670 ran as cool and quiet as my 4670, hopefully a similiar uberlow price too.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Maybe the 5870x2 isn't that much more powerful than a set of 5870's in crossfire

That doesn't sound likely, maybe it's just a mistake.

 

[SimpleDesign]

It'd be nice if the 5670 ran as cool and quiet as my 4670, hopefully a similiar uberlow price too.

I'd buy it if it's on par with the 280/4870 and runs quiet/cool.

 

[bee]

nothing will launch on the 10th except paper

 

[godhandiscen]

nothing will launch on the 10th except paper

What is funny is that even if this is a paper launch, Nvidia's expected launch is so many months after that AMD could wait until December and still cause Nvidia a deal of pain. Also, Nvidia has planned a counter for the 10th. Maybe they will announce the date of their launch and give some specs.

 

[SimpleDesign]

What is funny is that even if this is a paper launch, Nvidia's expected launch is so many months after that AMD could wait until December and still cause Nvidia a deal of pain. Also, Nvidia has planned a counter for the 10th. Maybe they will announce the date of their launch and give some specs.

Maybe they'll surprise everyone with a holiday launch. :lol

 

[bee]

What is funny is that even if this is a paper launch, Nvidia's expected launch is so many months after that AMD could wait until December and still cause Nvidia a deal of pain. Also, Nvidia has planned a counter for the 10th. Maybe they will announce the date of their launch and give some specs.

oh it is a paper launch and thats 100% guarenteed

but i really think the nvidia damage thing is vastly over exaggerated, haven't really got anything to go by other than the steam hardware survey but looking at that is decent enough i think

ati clearly had a huge price/performance advantage with the 4xxx series but i don't see a big dent there, overall nvidia still had 65% and in dx10 gpus they're still extremely dominant even with the 4850/4870/4870x2/4890 all clumped together to make up 11%

 

[Mr.Potato Head]

Yeah. The Radeon 9800 was a good performer for a very long time. Same with the 8800 (so much so that nvidia keep rebranding it and releasing it again and again :lol)

MY ATI 9800 Pro All In Wonder was the best damn card i ever owned for its time, i miss that baby, sadly she's dissected, dismantled in a box in my basement after i did a few Frankenstein experiments with her which didnt come out too well but thats ok..she was already retired during that experiment, rest in peace my betty boo

PS Yes i name my videocards

 

[Mr.Potato Head]

Trine's still exclusive .

Demigod is awesome, Spore Galactic Adventures expands Spore into a game I can be proud to play, The Sims 3 is the best Sims yet, Empire: Total War is just fantastic. Dawn of War 2 is also a fantstic RTS.

Maybe you just hate good games? I think you just don't like the games that have been coming.

maybe he just dont like those RTS or Strategy type pc games too much eh? Alot of us dont..until there is a decent amount of exclusive pc shooters,etc with Crysis caliber graphics..there is no real reason to upgrade yet..being first in line for the next big vid card is not like how it use to be..its really not worth it now days unless there are more then 3 visually stunning shooters or action type games..RTS pc type games really arent the type of games that "live or die" off their visuals. The last stunning pc game to come out that was a shooter was crysis and how many years ago was that? Dont get me wrong..its still beautiful but thats about it..everything else is nothing but console games ported to the pc with minimal pc upgrades for that game...

 

[careful]

I have an 8800gt OC that has held up very well for me and I am completely willing to plop down the $500-$600 for a brand new GPU but I won't spend that kind of money until GPU's can get well over 60FPS on games like Crysis and GTA4. I don't think that's asking much since Crysis is almost two years old now and GTA 4 has been on Xbox for a long time. Being realistic, GPU speed increases have been going very slow in recent years and I can't help but think... milkage!

Which made this article rather laughable and unbelievable.

I kinda feel the same way. The new single cards will probably net you the performance of the old dual cards, so you don't really get the feeling of 'oh shit new crazy powerful video cards!'. On the other hand, the prices are much more reasonable than they ever were so I'm not complaining.

 

[Psy-Phi]

maybe he just dont like those RTS or Strategy type pc games too much eh? Alot of us dont..until there is a decent amount of exclusive pc shooters,etc with Crysis caliber graphics..there is no real reason to upgrade yet..being first in line for the next big vid card is not like how it use to be..its really not worth it now days unless there are more then 3 visually stunning shooters or action type games..RTS pc type games really arent the type of games that "live or die" off their visuals. The last stunning pc game to come out that was a shooter was crysis and how many years ago was that? Dont get me wrong..its still beautiful but thats about it..everything else is nothing but console games ported to the pc with minimal pc upgrades for that game...

If you don't like those games, I find it hard to believe you'd spend money on PC gaming at all. That's the bread and butter of PC gaming. Action games are and almost always have been a primarily console centered genre. Strategy & RPG more so on PC. Sure you get the odd action games for PC, but they are rare releases by comparison. Always have been. What PC gaming needs is an injection in the Flight genre. Those are visually stunning and can attract people such as yourself because they tend to be action-oriented.

With that genre's current slumber, the visually impressive action games have dwindled to just a few releases a year. And with the move to more platform agnosticism, games like F.E.A.R. 2 that would have once been anticipated and potentially visually stunning, aren't so much anymore. Look at Bioshock, Fallout 3 or even Left 4 Dead for a good example of that. The limitation of the console hardware bleeds into the cross-platform development of what would once have been PC exclusive titles. Still exceptionally fun games, but their visual prowess could be restricted by the decision to go for the console release as well. Like the upcoming Crysis game that will be on consoles...new engine, that's less impressive than the original? The potential of games that are exclusive to the PC is higher, but most of the time, the technically imrpessive titles come out in 3-4 year periods anyway so it may be that the console isn't limiting much of anything for those titles. But the potential would have been there with the console removed from the development plan.

As I said in the beginning of this post though, if you're not playing the Strategy games and RPG's that are exclusive to PC, you're missing out on a majority of what PC gaming offers that's intellectually unique to console gamings median genres.

 

[godhandiscen]

I haven't seen anybody getting a hold of these cards yet (compared to the 4xxx series when a lot of people were posting screenshots already). September 10th will be a paper launch for the ages I think.

 

[artist]

oh it is a paper launch and thats 100% guarenteed

The event on the 10th & 8th (yesterday for EU) was not a launch, its editors day. Launch is set for last week of this month when AMD decides fit, until then hold your horses on the paper thing. :lol

but i really think the nvidia damage thing is vastly over exaggerated, haven't really got anything to go by other than the steam hardware survey but looking at that is decent enough i think

http://i26.tinypic.com/2808q3q.png

ati clearly had a huge price/performance advantage with the 4xxx series but i don't see a big dent there, overall nvidia still had 65% and in dx10 gpus they're still extremely dominant even with the 4850/4870/4870x2/4890 all clumped together to make up 11%

Maybe you havent been paying attention at all. The damage is pretty significant, Nvidia was posting record profits quarter after quarter until RV770 showed up, since then they have been bleeding money like crazy. On top of that Nvidia has been slashing prices so hard that even their AIB partners are not making much money and are upset while some have switched over to the red side. Even though Nvidia cut prices quite significantly to not lose market share, they did lose overall market share by 4% to AMD.

What you are looking at (Steam survey) is not the overall market as its gamer centric. Even still consider this: last generation Nvidia's market share in the steam survey was north of 80%, this generation it is a measely 30 something percent. Quite a reversal, dont you think?