Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Smh
And people still argue
"Why would luke hold a light sabre over his nephew, he'd never do that"
to the scene then where he chops his father down like a tree
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rumor: Disney Resetting Star Wars
- Thread starter johntown
- Start date
Smh
And people still argue
"Why would luke hold a light sabre over his nephew, he'd never do that"
to the scene then where he chops his father down like a tree
#Phonepunk#
Banned
they had a problem over-using comedy on the villains. yes Princess Leia talked back to Vader in ANH, but it was an essential part of her character, so no nonsense she would stand down even a guy who Imperial warlords are afraid of. he didn't have people calling him "chrome dome" and stuff.
the new films have the villains just comically bad. TLJ opens with Poe single handedly destroying an entire Star Destroyer as a guy issues empty threats. he gives this monologue about "obliterate their fleet" which sounds intimidating, but only sends three TIE fighters. clearly the scene was there to show how badass Poe is, but in the process it deflated all tension, and at the start of the movie, demonstrated that the bad guys are really no threat. or at least, they are only a threat when it is convenient to the plot/theme. and all that is without even mentioning the prank phone call.
ditto for Kylo Ren. he starts TFA freezing a laser in mid air. this is an incredibly display of force power. for some reason, his force powers just keep declining from there. he becomes less threatening as the series goes on. the next movie, he doesn't really use the force at all. again, this is part of Rian's theme, showing his "spirit was split" or something, but all it did was make him not very good being a villain.
a villain who constantly loses is not scary. he lost in TFA and he lost again in TLJ. this is why i have a hard time with people who insist Kylo should have been the only bad guy of the third movie. he was pathetic. not a threat. Snoke could have possibly been a new bad guy, but again, they showed he was not really a threat, and by subverting expectations, showed us a villain who is of no consequence.
people need to rewatch Empire. the villains in that are ruthless, they constantly chase the heroes, they spy on them, use sneaky diplomatic tactics, hire bounty hunters, etc. they dismember the main hero, imprison his friend, etc. they are a threat because we see them follow through and succeed. this is why people were hyped for Jedi. after seeing Kylo lose a second time in TLJ, nobody cared to see him lose a third time in the next movie.
Last edited:
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Are you serious?
Luke had a "vision" of Ben turning to the dark side, and decided to murder him in his sleep. FUCKING LUKE SKYWALKER. MURDERING HIS NEPHEW IN HIS SLEEP.
Compare that to all the emotional build up happening over three movies and the final throne room scene which leads to this.
If you are not able to see a difference in cinematic skill there, why are you even posting here?
Last edited:
Shantae
Banned
You forget, facing Vader was Luke's final trial as a Jedi according to Yoda. He hadn't mastered his emotions yet, and that was the test. Would he strike him down, or would he spare him? Vader purposely pushed him to the edge to draw him out, and of course that threw Luke into a rage, he was being taunted. There's a big difference between facing an admirable foe whose taunting you on your final trial, and being a Jedi Master who pulls their saber on a student while they're sleeping.
Another thing that really pisses me off about the sequel trilogy is that retroactively hurt the original 6 movies. The entire saga was basically about Anakin's fall, and redemption. He was the chosen one who would destroy the Sith by killing Palpatine, and killing most of the Jedi so that they can be renewed with new faith. The Jedi had grown blind and arrogant with their power, so their numbers probably needed to be reduced to help bring balance to the force. But GOT'CHA, Vader isn't the chosen one after all, it's Rey...everything is about fucking Rey. She's the one who kills Palpatine. What a crock of shit. They basically voided Anakin's redemption completely with that bull shit.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
As luke said it was a fleeting moment and passed as quick as it came. Dude lived through his father killing hundreds of thousands of peopel and saw the same intent in ben and for one slight second dude thought "i could save them all with this one act" and then it fizzled because he failed to realise his visions were because of his failure to help his nephew than antagonize him
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Your posting a picture of a guy that didnt see the tortures of a galactic battle as he did. We now talking about a guy whose friends were killed or maimed, a guys who father was the big bad next to palpy, almost killing his father and his father kill him, killing hundreds of people himself and we think he is going to come out of that unscathed? Luke Skywaler is just a name, there is a man behind it that suffered a great deal.Have you seen the OT?
And you think that person would kill his Nephew in his sleep?
Stilton Disco
Member
Writing out more details involved in the out of character bollocks, doesn't make it any less out of character bollocks.
Luke had already been through the process of mastering his emotions, letting go of fear, anger and hate, then using his selfless heroism to guide him in redeeming his father, even at the potential cost of his life.
Any intent to kill to solve a problem, no matter how fleeting, contradicts his established character and simply cannot coexist with the fact of his being a Jedi Master.
The scene and it's explanation is simply wrong and bad writing.
Last edited:
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
The fact that you think he mastered his own emotions etc is as much bollocks as I right, just because he helped daddy doesnt mean he will always be in control. You wrote that yourself, they did not.
Jedi masters dont fuck up at all or make mistakes, why did the jedi fall again?
Last edited:
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Did you even see RotJ? Seems you didn't even remotely understand Luke's hero journey, and what kind of person he is.
You are making the same mistake RJ does. You are bending someones character to fit your lame narrative.
Luke is by definition not a greyish morality person.
He is the good boy. He might be tempted by evil, but he resists because he simply is who he is.
His main character trait is optimism. And that's what we see by the end of RotJ. He redeemed his father with this character trait of his.
This fitting of a narrative into something that is not meant to be seen this way is the big problem of TLJ in a nutshell.
Someone wanted to forcefully shove his story into a greater framework where this story simply doesn't fit.
edit/add: also what Stilton writes below...
Last edited:
Stilton Disco
Member
What? Controlling your emotions and mastering your actions is a fundamental core component of being a Jedi.
Did you not wonder why the Emperor was trying to goad Luke into giving into his emotions and kill Vader? It's pretty much the main point of difference between the Jedi and the Sith.
The fact Luke was able to wail on Vader, defeat and and disarm him, then instantly step away and calmly deny the Emperor, was the climax of his heroes journey and final step in rejecting the darkside, truly becoming a Jedi.
The fact is Rian Johnson, and by extension the entirety of those calling the shots on Star Wars at Disney, clearly do not understand what happened in the true Star Wars movies, as apparently neither do you.
karasu
Member
this is completely anecdotal. You cant gauge the world's interest in a property by the interest of your own son and his 6 friends or whatever. They have numbers that tell them exactly who is buying their merch.
Last edited:
ExpandKong
Banned
Yeah and it's "nobody."
Master Of Illusion
Member
Have you seen the OT?
And you think that person would kill his Nephew in his sleep?
Jesus the film literacy here...
Luke didn't actively try to kill Ben in his sleep, Ben thought he did which caused him to go nuts and thus Luke living with the regret of opening a whole new can of shit.
ExpandKong
Banned
He drew his lightsaber, that's way farther than the real Luke would've ever gone.
But blehr gurhg we're not all supreme fill literature geniuses like you I guess
Newly Vacant
Member
Stiflers Mom
's experience is mine as well. My sons don't care about Star Wars, and none of their friends do either. I went to many a birthday party with my kids, and none of them were Star Wars-themed. There's a larger discussion to be had about how modern media companies are treating boys, but with Star Wars, Disney has a long road ahead.
PSlayer
Member
From what i gather there are two things that support this theory that K.Kennedy is out and the sequel trilogy is being dropped:
1) star wars celebration was cancelled until 2022 which is inline with this idea that KK will get out when the contract is done.
2) Disney introduced the concept of multiple universes in the canon.
Everything else is expeculation based on rumors. I still hope something comes true out of this just for the salt.
1) star wars celebration was cancelled until 2022 which is inline with this idea that KK will get out when the contract is done.
2) Disney introduced the concept of multiple universes in the canon.
Everything else is expeculation based on rumors. I still hope something comes true out of this just for the salt.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
And those are the key words, he gets tempted by evil but in the end he resists, kind of like how in tlj he was tempted but resisted... only reason it turned fubar was because ben awoke, would we have the same conclusion if he stayed asleep, probably not
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
And his great journey in the new one os that just because your a master and you have the name luke skywalker does not mean you are perfect and still cant fail, especially when no other jedi exist to keep the creed running a constant. What yoda told him how failure is the greatest teacher etc is the key advice especially on his multiple journeys where he failed but also learns from said failure throughout even the original trilogy.
Stilton Disco
Member
Yes, failures on his multiple journeys that led to becoming a Jedi, which he achieved, thus would not have made the mistakes he did in the wankly written new movies.
No one wanted Luke to be infallible, just as no Jedi before him had been, but he also should not have made the mistakes he did in the new movies which are anathema to everything involved in being a Kedi as well as failures he had already learned to overcome previously.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Again so we are writing bollocks again. So because you feel he cant make mistakes thus he shouldnt make mistakes
Master Of Illusion
Member
The closest thing to the multiple universes thing was a Rebels episode from a couple years ago (pre-Rise Of Shit).
This is baseless nonsense spewed by some YouTuber that angry fanboys are taking to heart because A). They cannot think, and B). They're too emotionally stunted to not revert to the denial stage of grief.
I would like a future episode (which let's face it is gonna happen 10 to 15 years from now) to tackle different dimensions & play with time, but it has to serve whatever story it has to tell and not because it's to appease a bunch of angry man-children (which is exactly what they tried to do with TROS and look how that turned out).
sol_bad
Member
Any real Jedi would know to take a "vision" very seriously. Just like he believed the vision he had on Dagobah about Han and Leia on Cloud City, he also believed the vision he had about Ben. His visions seem to come true after all. In that moment of weakness, due to that vision, he did nearly strike Ben down, but he controlled his emotions and did not.
Everyone saying that a Jedi Master would never do this, they are thinking of Jedi Masters from the old kree who lived and breathed the religion and had fellow followers surrounding them. Luke didn't have this, he was on his own and had to learn everything on his own. And people saying that he shouldn't give in to his feelings because he mastered them ..... even in the old EU he followed his emotions and got married, Luke following his emotions isn't new.
Another thing you are forgetting, we haven't seen Luke's journey for about 18-20 years or so, just like we didn't see Obi's journey for 18-20 years. What the eff made Obi sit on his arse for all that time doing nothing? Seeing Obi in the prequel trilogy and seeing how his character is in that trilogy, it doesn't make sense. It makes zero sense that all these Jedi would sit on their fat arses and do absolutely nothing about the Empire.
In realistic terms, I wouldn't consider anyone who trained on their own as a Jedi master. If you compare what it takes to become a Jedi master in the prequel trilogy to what it takes to become a "Jedi master" in the original trilogy, it's a load of shit. And as I mentioned above, Lukes visions tend to become true and that is why he nearly acted on it.
Also, the "entire" saga was not about Anakin's downfall and redemption. In 1977, 1980 and 1983 Anakin was not the chosen one, Palpatine didn't exist, the Jedi hadn't grown blind and arrogant and their numbers didn't need reducing. When Vader overthrew the Empire it was just a nice happy moment for father and son to "rekindle" their relationship. The entire story was all about Luke, the prequel trilogy just retroactively changed things. I mean shit, did people whinge and cry about the prequel trilogy retroactively hurting the original trilogy because Luke was no longer the "saviour"? No they didn't but there were plenty of other things to complain about.
If it's OK for the prequel trilogy to change the focus of the saga than it should be OK for the sequel trilogy to change the focus of the saga.
Can you show me where I can see the missing 18 years of Luke's life to prove that he had indeed mastered his emotions during that time period? If it's ok for you to make up headcannon that he had no trials and tribulations for that 18 year time span than it's ok for other fans to make headcannon that he did have other trials and tribulations to get through in that 18 year gap.
This is such a weird ... thing.
It's OK for Anakin and many other Jedi to be tempted by the dark side but not Luke? I mean, this is something that the prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars cartoon constantly keep hitting you over the head about. That it can be quite easy to slip to the dark side. There are actually many Jedi Masters who do exactly that, turn to the dark side, even with their entire kree to help and support them. Yet with Luke, who has absolutely no help or support, it's not OK for him to be tempted by the dark side?
Also, have you seen the montages of Luke whinging and whining? His main trait is far from optimism.
Everything you are saying is speculation, just have a look at the dates of Star Wars celebration in America.
April 1999
May 2002
April 2005
May 2007
July 2008
August 2010
August 2012
April 2015
April 2017
April 2019
It's not a yearly thing. There aren't any movies to promote right now. Disney were already delaying their movies before Covid hit.
I hope the rumours aren't true just for the salt.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
I like Empire most because it is the most pulp. first movie was designed to stand alone if needed but this was made with all the advantages of having a pre built world and it could take the story to a totally wild place and leave it there for the future. the end of the movie is sad but optimistic, and the way it mirrors the earlier scene of all our characters in one room after Luke is healed from the bacta tank shows us they will be together again and makes us look forward to the next movie.
The new movies only have Rey. Finn tried to fight but he got his spine sliced with a lightsaber. After that was a fate worse than death.
Old movies had so many Jedi, plus dark side character like Maul, all these new weapons and flying speeders and all this new shit. It was baroque. Kids who watched them over and over would be into ornate art design. The new movies are trying for a realistic style TV look. They are not baroque, they are sparse. So it is a bunch of stuff that is designed to look “like” something in the old movies but not really stand out.
Also, just, markets. Toys in general have been taken over by Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite. Could be that Disney aiming their films at the lol old millennials is a good strategy.
They were full of ideas, so many new characters, new worlds. Lucas is a for real nerd, so he would just nerd out making ILM churn out a galaxy’s worth of new content. People often complain the prequels are too different from the original films, I think this has something to do with it. It leans very much into the Art Deco style that was around during the era of Flash Gordon. This same style is used in Cloud City, another area with connections to the prequels. At one point Lando was going to be a clone who was in the clone wars and the city would be full of Lando clones.
The new movies only have Rey. Finn tried to fight but he got his spine sliced with a lightsaber. After that was a fate worse than death.
Old movies had so many Jedi, plus dark side character like Maul, all these new weapons and flying speeders and all this new shit. It was baroque. Kids who watched them over and over would be into ornate art design. The new movies are trying for a realistic style TV look. They are not baroque, they are sparse. So it is a bunch of stuff that is designed to look “like” something in the old movies but not really stand out.
Also, just, markets. Toys in general have been taken over by Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite. Could be that Disney aiming their films at the lol old millennials is a good strategy.
Last edited:
nush
Member
Phones and tablets have replaced toys, the only market to sell to is the older fans.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Luke is tempted in the OT.
Yet he is resisting.
Luke is the good guy, not morally ambiguous. That's what led Vader back to the light side.
In TLJ he is portrayed as in WANTING TO FUCKING MURDER HIS NEPHEW IN HIS SLEEP for the sake of RJs story.
sol_bad
Member
He stopped himself from murdering Ben just like he stopped himself from murdering his dad. Are you going to ignore what I said about his visions and how they become true? Knowing that your visions come true, yeah, it might be scary knowing that your nephew is going to murder and slaughter thousands or millions of people. I can imagine your emotions grabing hold of you in that instant.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Apples and Oranges.
In RotJ Vader and Luke were in a fight to the death. "Heat of the moment" etc.
in TLJ we were shown that Luke did a rational decision to go into Ben's room and murder him in his sleep with his Light Saber already ignited.
I see a difference here.
sol_bad
Member
tkscz
Member
While I can't say if it's true or not, I can say I can see why Disney would do it
Like it or not, the original trilogy sells more merch than the new trilogy. To the point where Hasbro and Metel won't bother with making new trilogy toys outside of Kylo Rin and Rey.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Lucasfilm's Kathleen Kennedy on Star Wars' Future: We Need "Time to Step Back" - IGN
Kathleen Kennedy is meeting with different filmmakers and talent to figure out Star Wars' next steps in the wake of Episode IX.
Kathleen Kennedy said:
No clue how she hasn't been fired yet.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
yeah you need to step back and start to think about where things might go
8 years after you paid 4 billion dollars
lol i mean why start now? why not just continue shoveling out braindead shit?
straight up admitting they don't know what the fuck they are doing
8 years after you paid 4 billion dollars
lol i mean why start now? why not just continue shoveling out braindead shit?
straight up admitting they don't know what the fuck they are doing
Last edited:
Dr Bass
Member
The movies aren't written by the franchise creator. The original six films are. The new ones are fan fiction garbage. Easy to ignore.
You could hardly make a worse Star Wars trilogy if you expressly set out to do so.
sol_bad
Member
The movies aren't written by the franchise creator. The original six films are. The new ones are fan fiction garbage. Easy to ignore.
The original 3 were helped created by his wife from what I remember. So the prequel trilogy is fan fiction too?
Dr Bass
Member
The original 3 were helped created by his wife from what I remember. So the prequel trilogy is fan fiction too?
His wife helped with editing for the original movies. George Lucas is clearly the creator of the entire franchise and responsible for the stories of the first six.
Where do weirdos like you come from?
Ionian
Member
The original 3 were helped created by his wife from what I remember. So the prequel trilogy is fan fiction too?
What? She edited Episode IV only.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
ah yes the "Marcia Lucas is the real genuis who made Star Wars" fallacy. why do feminists have to try an rewrite the past? you can give her credit without tearing down the mean old man.
look she was an important part of the first movie, especially editing wise. she didn't write half of it lol. she made suggestions. Leigh Brackett, who Lucas hired to write Empire, contributed far more to the OT i would say. at any rate i don't think anybody has ever actually said George Lucas is single handedly responsible for the whole thing. no need to go overboard.
the worst thing about the ST has been giving people a chance to shit on GL and the OT for stupid and wrong reasons.
look she was an important part of the first movie, especially editing wise. she didn't write half of it lol. she made suggestions. Leigh Brackett, who Lucas hired to write Empire, contributed far more to the OT i would say. at any rate i don't think anybody has ever actually said George Lucas is single handedly responsible for the whole thing. no need to go overboard.
the worst thing about the ST has been giving people a chance to shit on GL and the OT for stupid and wrong reasons.
Last edited:
sol_bad
Member
People have been shitting on George Lucas since 1999 when The Phantom Menace was released and people realised he is not good at making movies. "Why do meninists have to try and rewrite history" and act like Lucas is a God? Just look at the behind the scenes of the prequel trilogy, he himself was creatively bankrupt and had absolutely no vision of what characters or machines should look like. He hired artists to draw thousands of items until he saw something he liked.
I'm just trying to point out that it's stupid to call anything fan fiction just because Lucas isn't involved. The reason it is stupid is because 95% of Star Wars stuff over the last 30 years hasn't had the involvement of Lucas and people are picking and choosing what is "fan fiction" based on what they personally liked or disliked. That Last Jedi movie, it was shit, it's fan fiction. That Fallen Order game, it was great and the story was great. Both products were made without Lucas' involvement.
All the novels from the 80's and 90's, the Dark Horse comics, nothing to do with Lucas. But you bet that there will be various people who liked and disliked different books or comics, never did you hear something as stupid as someone saying, "it's fan fiction" if they disliked something.
It's like saying any of the Marvel books that were made after Stan Lee's and Jack Kirby's involvement were fan fiction. Or that any Batman book after Bob Kane or Bill Finger are fan fiction. I'd argue that other creatives helped make the characters even more popular further down the track. Marvel and DC comics are no different than the Star Wars properties, you are going to get good shit and bad shit over time. Sure, the bad shit is going to tarnish the property for some people but when the good shit hits the screen it will remind people why they loved the franchise, whatever that franchise should be.
And also, people saying negative things about the original trilogy or pointing out bad things that are parallel to the new movies isn't shitting on the films, no movie/book/comic/music is beyond criticism. Listening and reading other peoples criticisms of the things you like is a good thing, if you just ignore it and read/watch what you want to agree with, you are limiting your world view. I think the MCU is one of the greatest cinematic accomplishments ever done and yeah, there are a tonne of people who will disagree with that and that's OK. I'm happy to see what the naysayers think and even agree with some of the things the naysayers say.
I'm just trying to point out that it's stupid to call anything fan fiction just because Lucas isn't involved. The reason it is stupid is because 95% of Star Wars stuff over the last 30 years hasn't had the involvement of Lucas and people are picking and choosing what is "fan fiction" based on what they personally liked or disliked. That Last Jedi movie, it was shit, it's fan fiction. That Fallen Order game, it was great and the story was great. Both products were made without Lucas' involvement.
All the novels from the 80's and 90's, the Dark Horse comics, nothing to do with Lucas. But you bet that there will be various people who liked and disliked different books or comics, never did you hear something as stupid as someone saying, "it's fan fiction" if they disliked something.
It's like saying any of the Marvel books that were made after Stan Lee's and Jack Kirby's involvement were fan fiction. Or that any Batman book after Bob Kane or Bill Finger are fan fiction. I'd argue that other creatives helped make the characters even more popular further down the track. Marvel and DC comics are no different than the Star Wars properties, you are going to get good shit and bad shit over time. Sure, the bad shit is going to tarnish the property for some people but when the good shit hits the screen it will remind people why they loved the franchise, whatever that franchise should be.
And also, people saying negative things about the original trilogy or pointing out bad things that are parallel to the new movies isn't shitting on the films, no movie/book/comic/music is beyond criticism. Listening and reading other peoples criticisms of the things you like is a good thing, if you just ignore it and read/watch what you want to agree with, you are limiting your world view. I think the MCU is one of the greatest cinematic accomplishments ever done and yeah, there are a tonne of people who will disagree with that and that's OK. I'm happy to see what the naysayers think and even agree with some of the things the naysayers say.
Dr Bass
Member
Uh ... if that's a reference at all to what I was saying, I don't care about the games or the books or anything like that. It's all fan fiction. Arguing about "canon" and such is for losers IMO. The important part of Star Wars are the Lucas-helmed movies, good or bad. Those are six.
Meninist? Get the eff out of here with that garbage. That has nothing to do with anything about this discussion so where from your ass did you pull it? No one said Lucas was a "god", the prequels were, and are, pretty bad movies. But at least the stories, as poorly executed as they are, aren't complete and utter nonsense like the Disney movies.
What would you think if someone came along and made a sequel series to The Lord of the Rings, that was completely outside anything Tolkien did, and was pure garbage? No one would care. It would be called the same thing, fan fiction. Just like the novel sequel to Gone With the Wind absolutely no one knows about. It's just unfortunate the original cast was convinced to come back. Mark Hamill was the only one who had the right idea. Let it go.
Which based on sales of toys and merchandise, people are doing.
sol_bad
Member
Uh ... if that's a reference at all to what I was saying, I don't care about the games or the books or anything like that. It's all fan fiction. Arguing about "canon" and such is for losers IMO. The important part of Star Wars are the Lucas-helmed movies, good or bad. Those are six.
Meninist? Get the eff out of here with that garbage. That has nothing to do with anything about this discussion so where from your ass did you pull it? No one said Lucas was a "god", the prequels were, and are, pretty bad movies. But at least the stories, as poorly executed as they are, aren't complete and utter nonsense like the Disney movies.
What would you think if someone came along and made a sequel series to The Lord of the Rings, that was completely outside anything Tolkien did, and was pure garbage? No one would care. It would be called the same thing, fan fiction. Just like the novel sequel to Gone With the Wind absolutely no one knows about. It's just unfortunate the original cast was convinced to come back. Mark Hamill was the only one who had the right idea. Let it go.
Which based on sales of toys and merchandise, people are doing.
The point of what I was saying has gone completely over your head, out the window and around the world.
Kev Kev
Member
#cancelstarwars
it's over folks. nothing to see here. sw is dead bc nothing they ever release is going to be good enough. the OT is the bible and everything else is retard jesus. even if retard jesus scores a touch down, its probably be because the other team was being nice and let him score, and we'll let's be honest, he's still a retard and he has no idea what's going on so nobody really wins here do they?
what were we talking about?
it's over folks. nothing to see here. sw is dead bc nothing they ever release is going to be good enough. the OT is the bible and everything else is retard jesus. even if retard jesus scores a touch down, its probably be because the other team was being nice and let him score, and we'll let's be honest, he's still a retard and he has no idea what's going on so nobody really wins here do they?
what were we talking about?