They only release better endings as DLC after fans crush them for their awful work.
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Rumor: Fallout 4 might take place in Boston
- Thread starter sflufan
- Start date
They only release better endings as DLC after fans crush them for their awful work.
hemtae
Member
And that combined with this rumor means that your second sentence makes no sense.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i like the idea of a fallout game set in europe. it could be a post-apocalyptic europe that is obsessed with america. boston, maybe. and the whole game you'd think, oh, man, boston has really gone to pieces! but in the end you'd find out it was really europe, and that it was actually pre-apocalypse, and that would be the tweest.
So the series always has to be about the same thing? It can't be about the events the world experienced before nuclear detonation? That's boring.
I don't like STALKER. I like Fallout for reasons different from your own.
What draws me to Fallout is not the American retro-future theme. The retro-future theme in general is interesting to me, and I'm not big. Who's to say that something similar to the Geck initiative and the vault shelters wasn't implemented somewhere else, like Canada or the United Kingdom, or Germany? At the very least, the UK and Germany were involved in the conflict that led to nuclear destruction. And Bethesda, while having made an entry taking place in America, have demonstrated that they have their own ideas and don't have to remain utterly obedient to something another developer stipulated.
For people to say that Fallout must remain in the US is the same as saying that Bioshock needed to take place on a spaceship, as did it's spiritual predecessor. But Irrational lifted the core concepts of the game, and applied it to an original setting. And it worked out very well. It can work for Fallout, too.
No, because the game is called Fallout for a reason. However, it was never called Fallout America.
Post-hoc fallacy.
What draws me to Fallout is not the American retro-future theme. The retro-future theme in general is interesting to me, and I'm not big. Who's to say that something similar to the Geck initiative and the vault shelters wasn't implemented somewhere else, like Canada or the United Kingdom, or Germany? At the very least, the UK and Germany were involved in the conflict that led to nuclear destruction. And Bethesda, while having made an entry taking place in America, have demonstrated that they have their own ideas and don't have to remain utterly obedient to something another developer stipulated.
For people to say that Fallout must remain in the US is the same as saying that Bioshock needed to take place on a spaceship, as did it's spiritual predecessor. But Irrational lifted the core concepts of the game, and applied it to an original setting. And it worked out very well. It can work for Fallout, too.
No, because the game is called Fallout for a reason. However, it was never called Fallout America.
Post-hoc fallacy.
So you agree the core concepts must be preserved. Fallout's one core concept is America. It's not hard to see.
Like I said, it's not hard to see Fallout's core idea is set in America. It doesn't need to be called Fallout America to make the concept valid.
Irrational made System Shock 3?!
The Fallout series always begins with a new main character, meaning that none of the sequels are direct successors. So, it's okay for the setting to change. America isn't the only country in the world, and it certainly isn't the most interesting. It has damn near been exhausted, so a major change of scenery is in order.
So you haven't played Fallout 1 and 2?
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i agree with you, bombadil. i feel that way about james bond, too. james bond should be american.
Fallout 2's main character isn't Fallout 1's main character. They're related.
I've played both.
Ahuehuehueuhue.
There are still a few vastly different parts of America to explore. The Northeast, the Pacisfic Northwest, the Deep South, the Mid-West and Hawaii come to mind at the moment.
NotoriousLynx
Banned
Pretty much this. I don't mean to offend anyone who wishes for a Fallout set out of the United States, but a true, rational fan would understand that Fallout "needs" to be set in the United States, or else it loses almost half of its core elements. Fallout is, a sentence, 1950 America's retro-futurism meets post-apocalypse. Bethesda and Chris Avellone have pretty much stated they don't believe Fallout should ever be set out of the United States iirc.
Something like that Fallout: Resource Wars spin-off seems alright, but the game itself doesn't sound very fun to me.
How can you say the US isn't interesting? Sure, post-apocalyptic China could be awesome, but the US has tons of different places. We haven't even gotten to the south or north east yet and we only really had a glimpse at the Midwest.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Admittedly, this might have been addressed already (I'll look and edit as necessary), but how much of the universe/lore has to change for another country to work? At that point, is a Fallout in China, with all of the differing Chinese ideology, technology, and thematic elements still Fallout?
I agree that the similarity of thematic elements in FO3 and NV got a wee bit repetitive, but Fallout's 'hook' was its crazy blend of pseudo-50s American culture and naivete and catapaulting it into the post-apocalyptic wasteland in a blender.
And besides, we haven't nearly covered the full spectrum of post-apocalyptic US. I agree that the NCR/California/Pacific West have been covered pretty damn well, but we still have the far north, the eastern seaboard and further exploration into the remnants of the commonwealth/Enclave after FO2's ending.
quick edit: Holy shit beaten twice.
You're perfectly right and wrong at the same time. A series must be unified by core concept/s in order to remain true to itself, that's correct. Superficial stuff like settings can and should change, in order to take that core concept places, again correct.
The thing is, in Fallout, its core theme is tied to the country it stems from. You can't have Fallout outside of the US. You just can't. A pre-war US Fallout would be a truer while different game, and it'd still be a stretch, since the irony of the post apocaliptic rotten decay of the cold war american nuclear optimism would be sorely missed.
And you fail to see the theme of the series because you impose your own on it. Fallout isn't about "retro-futurism in general". If you think that's it, then you've missed the point.
So now the games need to have the same main character to be considered direct successors? It's...an RPG, where you "create" your character. Do you even see the implications of using the same character for all the games?
EmCeeGramr
Member
One of the reasons Mormons are an oddly noticeable part of New Vegas and a cornerstone of Honest Hearts is because J.E. Sawyer was fascinated by a religious tradition that's uniquely American in history and nature.
Vaults in other countries would feel pretty cheap and sort of a lame twist on the lore. Vault-Tec was contracted by the American government and...well I don't want to spoil any of the games due to the small chance that people are reading this thread and don't know about their background, but let's just say vaults made by them in other parts of the world wouldn't make sense.
If the main character doesn't carry over, then it's an indirect sequel. The second reason why FO2 is an indirect sequel is due to the long passage of time between the plot of FO1 and the plot of FO2.
Anyway, we'll see what we'll see.
Arguably, the Grand Theft Auto series is largely about the American Dream as it pertains to various people from different walks of life. Yet there are two GTA London expansions.
Even when something is a core idea, it doesn't mean it can't be shifted. What are some things about the United States that are integrated into the FO series? Patriotism? Exceptionalism? Optimism? War Paranoia? Do these concepts not exist at all in other nations? Is it impossible for post-Apocalyptic Germany or China to have a similar situation? But then we must ask, is it necessary for these American concepts to carry over to a new country? If they did, then what would be the point of playing in a new country? None at all. I am fine with Bethesda adding new core concepts to their series by adding new philosophies pertaining to other nations. Just like Bioshock 2 focused on a villain who was the polar opposite of Andrew Ryan, it is perfectly fine for a new Fallout game to focus on other ideas, other philosophies, political movements, etc. It could take place in France and focus on a new existentialist movement, or focus on Germany's uber-mensch proclivities. What is fundamental to this series is the fact that a particular nation's patchwork identity is being examined. But to say that the United States must be the only nation examined, despite other nations being involved in the ultimate downfall of humanity following World War 2 is ridiculous.
So, fine, let the next one take place in Boston or Montana or Atlanta. Whatever. But one day, it's going to have to take place somewhere else. There's only so many times you can tread on the same topic.
When you say it wouldn't make sense, are you saying that it's inconceivable for a private company to sign an exclusive contract with one country and then go behind it's back and work with other countries?
They weren't just your average private company, though. When you look at what the vaults were really for, and who was really behind them, it wouldn't make much sense.
Copy and pasting all of that and saying "oh...and yeah, all this happened in other countries also!" would be a pretty uninspired twist in my opinion.
When you look at the setting and development team behind New Vegas calling it a spin-off is disingenuous.
Because no other countries would have fallout shelters, and all the protagonists come from Vaults, right?
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
To be fair though, wasn't Bioshock 2's story lambasted for only being the flipside of Bioshock's? People were expecting something...grander, I think.
I don't think its ridiculous that the possibility exists, but as others have been saying, Fallout isn't fundamentally an exploration of a nation's identity, it's America's identity. I'm all for more post-apocalyptic settings, but I don't think it could properly be called Fallout. It would have to be a spinoff, a Fallout:France, Fallout:China, etc.
Isn't that the point of all series' franchises, though? Drawing on the past to create similar yet new experiences? Granted, that's where franchise fatigue comes in, but I'm hopeful that Bethesda/Obsidian/whoever makes the Fallout after 4 will recognize the dangers in such. The transition from 2d isometric to full 3d open world in Fallout 3 was one of the major focus points of Fallout 3, and New Vegas focused on transitioning that open world into something that more closely aligned with Fallout 1 and 2. I'm curious as to how Fallout 4 will handle its differentiation from both 3 and New Vegas.
Why? Why then just stop at the main character? Why not extend that to all other important characters, locations etc? Because in Fallout games the main character is not any more important than other world-building concepts.
The significance of Vaults is not about being "fallout shelters". Without spoiling anything, if you wish to make Vaults in other countries significant in a similar manner to the Vaults in the US, it'd look contrived.
Er..I don't follow. I never said that. I was only talking about the vault project and Vault-Tec as a company.
There could certainly be some type of shelter program in other countries. Probably was. I just meant that moving the vaults and the entire vault project as we've come to know them to a different country wouldn't really make sense. It'd have to be something entirely different with a different origin.
My point was more that given the timeline, unless the next entry goes back in time, the vaults themselves are more of a historical curiosity rather than a necessary story device. You don't need to have a Vaul-tec analogue in order to have the story be Fallout. NV was not about Vault-Tec, or vault survivors.
Vaults in Fallout are an important (and one of the best) world-building concept, whether the PC comes from a Vault or not. A Fallout game where Vaults are a mere "historical curiosity" would be a lesser game, I feel.
Vaults were important for establishing a lot of the culture in NV though.
Ah, my mistake. I see what you mean.
Technically I can't argue with that, but the vaults and their history is one of the many things that I just find so interesting in these games. That whole backstory is so cool! I always love discovering vaults and learning what happened to the people that lived there (or what's still happening if it hasn't been abandoned).
The fact that you'd have to cut and alter things like that in order to get the series into a different setting makes me believe that it wouldn't be worth it. Those bits of history and lore are what add up to make the series so fascinating.
But that's only my personal opinion. Clearly some people are sick of America. And I can't say as fact that Bethesda wouldn't be able to flesh out a new environment and history in a new country as interesting as America but...damn, that sure is one tall order.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I really do think is possible. After all, there are examples of war movies set in foreign countries that touch themes about national identity, futility of war, etc.
American WWII films specially, but also of other nations like for instance, La Grande Illusion, a WWI French film by Jean Renoir narrates the story of French war prisoners in Germany, but also says a lot about social classes and french aristocracy.
Or eventually you can touch a nomadic theme about frontiersmen and their conflicts with the native Americans in the west with a story that focuses in the effects of settlers venturing into other countries, probably down south, but if you want to get a little crazy with climate changes, maybe even west too. (or they could just use boats of course, the history of the America is the story of people arriving in boats into an alien land)
American WWII films specially, but also of other nations like for instance, La Grande Illusion, a WWI French film by Jean Renoir narrates the story of French war prisoners in Germany, but also says a lot about social classes and french aristocracy.
Or eventually you can touch a nomadic theme about frontiersmen and their conflicts with the native Americans in the west with a story that focuses in the effects of settlers venturing into other countries, probably down south, but if you want to get a little crazy with climate changes, maybe even west too. (or they could just use boats of course, the history of the America is the story of people arriving in boats into an alien land)
I think a Fallout set outside the US would be interesting. I do see where those saying it won't work or wouldn't be Fallout are coming from, but honestly I don't care. After four main games(Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas) I think setting it outside of America would be a nice change up.
Now with that said one I don't see it happening and in all honesty while it would be cool I wouldn't really mind if it never did either. Two I have no faith in Bethesda to do it justice. They would pretty much have to create a whole bunch of history since as far as i know none of the previous games mentioned the rest of the world in any great detail. They would also have to create a theme as compelling as the American 1950's cold war retro-future the the previous Fallout used as well. I just don't think they are up to the task. Now say if someone like Obsidian did it I am pretty sure it would work, but from what I hear another Obsidian developed Fallout is a pipe dream.
Now with that said one I don't see it happening and in all honesty while it would be cool I wouldn't really mind if it never did either. Two I have no faith in Bethesda to do it justice. They would pretty much have to create a whole bunch of history since as far as i know none of the previous games mentioned the rest of the world in any great detail. They would also have to create a theme as compelling as the American 1950's cold war retro-future the the previous Fallout used as well. I just don't think they are up to the task. Now say if someone like Obsidian did it I am pretty sure it would work, but from what I hear another Obsidian developed Fallout is a pipe dream.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Honestly, I think the 'change' in setting could be as simple as getting away from Gamebryo. Seeing the same old shit-texture mountains and ground on consoles was disheartening, hence my double dipping in F:NV to PC. Like changing the city (in FO4) to look nothing like downtown DC, giving each area more of a distinctive "identity" for the different towns, something like each big city being as unique as Rivet City's setting in FO3.
As it is now, the only thing that I remember in the different towns in FO3 and NV are the quest hubs that give cool shit or are related to companions. Having something different from re-skinned greens/browns/yellows, having actual detailed and designed layouts could make a strong difference as will not having most of the buildings share huge levels of similarity.
Hopefully the 'Creation Engine' revamp of Gamebryo will help, though I know it's at least partially a loading/memory issue for most of the background stuff.
WorstUsernameEver
Member
Aside from the fact that Americana is deeply rooted not only in the series' history but also its distinctive art style, story themes, etc. but I'm also not sure why people are wishing for American developers to tackle cultures they're not remotely familiar with.
CDProjektRED is obviously developing FO4.
I'd gladly allow CDP develop an RPG about gauchos in Argentina lol
with Reise, Reise playing in the background.
Personally I think Canada would work, and I think that would be one of the more interesting areas they could explore. I'd welcome a Fallout set in Toronto or Vancouver, because you'd probably be surrounded by mad American propaganda all over the place, as it's an occupying nation.
As for everyone else, do you want a Fallout game set in another country, or do you just want a post-apocalyptic open-world RPG set there? Because there is a major difference.
Well, for many, it seems, Fallout is that post-apocalyptic open-world RPG.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
They can set it in beelzebubs arse for all i care, so long as they keep their grubby claws off the west coast.
Oooh. Canada could actually work pretty well.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
It's not impossible to set a Fallout sequel in Berlin or Moscow, but it's going to be a hell of a lot different in feel. Fallout, as it's existed, is an outgrowth of American culture from the late 1940s to the late 1950s. Everything from the Vault Boy and other characatures, references to Duck and Cover and other PSAs, the style of radio and propaganda, the expansion of fallout shelters which were meant for long-term living into Vaults, the use of junk bonds to finance the Vaults, Vault Tec and other companies as an arm of the military industrial complex, and the influence of American science fiction literature (e.g. Super Mutants, secret government conspiracies) as seen to date are pretty much American expressions of society during the early Cold War. You cannot just shoehorn that into Berlin, add some beer steins, leiderhosen, and a big wall and expect it to come across as anything more than just a shoehorn with the additions of some beer steins, leiderhosen, and a big wall.
I'm not saying that post-apocalyptic experiences are out of place outside the US... Metro 2033, Stalker, and other games are a lot of fun and have their own crazy atmosphere. I'm just thinking you might want to start a new series from scratch with that rather than try to re-do everything to realize a European expression, considering that you'd essentially have to re-do everything to make it anything more than a farce, and you'd end up in the same place with the same effort spent. All you're benefiting from that is a halo effect from branding.
It wouldn't, but the military-industrial complex had different expressions and different powers in Europe. I guess you could say it was a growth of the general imperial powers that the US had in places like Occupied West Germany and work it that way, but it's a stretch.
Yup, Canada might work and maybe even Mexico, but it's really only because they're so close to the US geographically and culturally (at least in FO's universe).
I always thought it would be interesting to see what things were like in China. The arguments I've seen for why a Fallout game should be in the U.S. are mentally exhausting to me. All I can say is... really?
Don't get me wrong, I like the discussion, because people are opening up my eyes to a lot of the subtexts in the Fallout universe, talking about things I've never thought of, like GungHo's post directly above. Very informative and awesome post, but I can't help but think how awesome it would be to have these same talented people at Bethesda or Obsidian tackle a setting outside of the U.S.
Don't get me wrong, I like the discussion, because people are opening up my eyes to a lot of the subtexts in the Fallout universe, talking about things I've never thought of, like GungHo's post directly above. Very informative and awesome post, but I can't help but think how awesome it would be to have these same talented people at Bethesda or Obsidian tackle a setting outside of the U.S.
I have no problem with them tackling a setting outside the US, just in a different series. As I indicated before, it seems to me that people just want a post-apocalyptic RPG set outside the US. It just happens that Fallout is the major post-apocalyptic RPG series right now so they want to have it tackle things, even though it doesn't exactly fit. I think there's room for multiple series set in that genre, I mean just look at the fantasy genre.
In fact, the guys behind Wasteland 2 talked about how it was freeing working on it and not Fallout, because they weren't bound by some of the shackles that come with working on a Fallout game.