Support NeoGAF

[duckroll]

The question is not whether the features are there. Well, I'm sure there are lots of people who bag on Luminous without understanding anything about anything, but there are very real reasons why we have critique the choice for Square Enix to invest heavily in making and maintaining an in-house engine.

Using an off the shelf engine these days gives you all the same feature sets, and also assures ease of use, strong technical support, and the fact that you can more easily hire people who will already have experience in using such tools and be familiar with the workflow. Hence proprietary technology becomes less and less useful unless it is truly best of class and gives you an edge in performance or does something for you that nothing in the market is readily able to do.

So when the reaction is "well other than the subpar performance, this looks alright, it seems to do what all other engines in the market now already does, definitely not lacking!" then the question is, why invest all that money into this to begin with?

If you spend more than the price of a Big Mac to buy ingredients to go home and make a burger that tastes pretty much like a Big Mac but took you longer to make than to buy, wouldn't you say that's a waste of your time and money?

 

[CrimsonSquall]

Is anyone here seriously defending the hindsight that SE should have just not stuck with Luminous and went with like UE4 tho

 

[Squire]

At this point, fans don't have to agree - SE does already, themselves. That's why KH3 and FFVIIR are UE4. XVI will be, too.

 

[artsi]

To be completely fair, it seems like its an ass to develop for. And many other major projects from Square are now using UE4 rather than Luminous studio.

At this point, fans don't have to agree - SE does already, themselves. That's why KH3 and FFVIIR are UE4. XVI will be, too.

Which has been explained multiple times - You can't use an engine still in development efficiently if the programmers (= support) are tied to one project which is FFXV.
It would be a different case when the engine has been finished along with FFXV, and the support can act as an independent entity from one development team.

From the making of videos and SIGGRAPH where they've explained their workflow, it sounds like it's working pretty efficiently and they've learned from the problems Crystal Tools had.

They've also studied a lot of UE4 and how it does things, for one example.

The question is not whether the features are there. Well, I'm sure there are lots of people who bag on Luminous without understanding anything about anything, but there are very real reasons why we have critique the choice for Square Enix to invest heavily in making and maintaining an in-house engine.

Using an off the shelf engine these days gives you all the same feature sets, and also assures ease of use, strong technical support, and the fact that you can more easily hire people who will already have experience in using such tools and be familiar with the workflow. Hence proprietary technology becomes less and less useful unless it is truly best of class and gives you an edge in performance or does something for you that nothing in the market is readily able to do.

So when the reaction is "well other than the subpar performance, this looks alright, it seems to do what all other engines in the market now already does, definitely not lacking!" then the question is, why invest all that money into this to begin with?

If you spend more than the price of a Big Mac to buy ingredients to go home and make a burger that tastes pretty much like a Big Mac but took you longer to make than to buy, wouldn't you say that's a waste of your time and money?

One can argue if it's cost efficient to develop an engine, but if you've already bought the Big Mac ingredients and the hamburger is ready, you don't just throw it away and go buy one from McDonalds. Luminous is pretty much done now when FFXV releases, and the developers have been saying it's efficient, so why not use it?

 

[ULTROS!]

At this point, fans don't have to agree - SE does already, themselves. That's why KH3 and FFVIIR are UE4. XVI will be, too.

Heck even Orochi3 is a good potential (which is being used by World of Final Fantasy btw), won't be surprised if they do use Unity in the future.

 

[wmlk]

At this point, fans don't have to agree - SE does already, themselves. That's why KH3 and FFVIIR are UE4. XVI will be, too.

This was the plan for Luminous. The Fox Engine was developed the same way.

Sure, after Luminous is "complete" you can then look at future games and see what the deal is, but it's silly to look at two other games when this isn't part of their plan. Merceron talked about this.

It's weird that KH3 was initially made with Luminous, though.

 

[Supermanisdead]

i'll never get people caping for luminous engine. i highly doubt they'll ever use it again except for 15 sequels or spinoffs.

 

[mortal]

What has this thread become, 89 pages though? lol

And here I was thinking that FF was losing its draw.

 

[dragonzdogma]

Which has been explained multiple times - You can't use an engine still in development efficiently if the programmers (= support) are tied to one project which is FFXV.
It would be a different case when the engine has been finished along with FFXV, and the support can act as an independent entity from one development team.

From the making of videos and SIGGRAPH where they've explained their workflow, it sounds like it's working pretty efficiently and they've learned from the problems Crystal Tools had.

They've also studied a lot of UE4 and how it does things, for one example.

Could be other factors , don't want to pay licensed fees, pride, engine developed in their native language. At least the future DLC will continue to use the engine.

 

[artsi]

Related to my post before, Julien Merceron on why Luminous is FFXV only during it's development:

Merceron explained that it’s difficult to share an engine without first creating a game on it. Some companies do that, but he wouldn’t. When he creates an engine, a game also has to be developed with that engine. After the engine proves itself in said game, then the technology can be shared, as the developers can finally say that it works.

If the engine hasn’t proved its worth, there’s a constant risk of problems. In fact, with the Fox Engine, the team did not start working on Pro Evolution Soccer before finishing Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes. The decision to use Fox Engine in PES was taken after Ground Zeroes was completed, and the team was sure that the engine could deliver.

The same goes for Luminous. Merceron recommended to Square Enix to release Final Fantasy XV and then see what happened with it, before using Luminous Engine with other games.

 

[Squire]

This was the plan for Luminous. The Fox Engine was developed the same way.

Sure, after Luminous is "complete" you can then look at future games and see what the deal is, but it's silly to look at two other games when this isn't part of their plan. Merceron talked about this.

It's weird that KH3 was initially made with Luminous, though.

It's almost like they lied! Crazy!

 

[wmlk]

It's almost like they lied! Crazy!

Or, Nomura/Yasue thought they knew what they were doing when they didn't.

 

[Squire]

Or, Nomura/Yasue thought they knew what they were doing when they didn't.

That seems like a significsby leap in logic when we can just apply Occam's razor: They developed the engine to use company-wide because that's what publishers do. EA, Bethesda, Capcom, and Konami. The first FOX Engine game was PES 2014, so I'm not sure what your previous post was referring to.

Companies don't spend multiple years and millions of dollars to build an engine for a single game or to "wait and see". This whole thing has just been a mess.

 

[duckroll]

One can argue if it's cost efficient to develop an engine, but if you've already bought the Big Mac ingredients and the hamburger is ready, you don't just throw it away and go buy one from McDonalds. Luminous is pretty much done now when FFXV releases, and the developers have been saying it's efficient, so why not use it?

No one is arguing that at this point in the process, it's better to just finish the game with the tech is it built in, rather than making any more changes. But when evaluating how "good" Luminuos is as an engine, it's pointless to just look at the graphics of FFXV and say "I think it's fine". We have to look beyond FFXV. If Luminous gets used again, and it is more efficient and has say, 10 years worth of games developed in it as it gets maintained and upgraded across future generations, then sure, it was worth it. But if they dump it after FFXV and stick to off the shelf tech from now on, then I think we should all just accept that S-E wasted their time and money on it.

 

[texasairhead101]

wario just posted its official

 

[Grim Patron]

Got the press release. November 29th it is.

TOKYO / LONDON / LOS ANGELES (Aug. 15, 2016) – To deliver the iconic FINAL FANTASY experience to audiences around the world, SQUARE ENIX® today announced that the global release date for FINAL FANTASY® XV will be November 29, 2016.

This release date will allow the development teams time to further polish and conduct quality testing so that the reality of the game can match the expectations of both the fans and the creative teams.

“From the moment we joined this project, our vision was to create a level of freedom and realism previously unseen in the series. Regrettably, we need a little bit more time to deliver on this vision and are confident that this new release date will help us achieve this,” said Hajime Tabata the game director. “As the director and lead of this project, I wish to personally apologize for the additional wait. As a team, we want FINAL FANTASY XV to achieve a level of perfection that our fans deserve. We kindly ask for your understanding.”

Full comments from Tabata are available at: https://youtu.be/Wepgwx_9kto.

 

[Quote]

Welp, it's official https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wepgwx_9kto&feature=youtu.be