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RUMOR: Sony developing Android 3.0 powered PSP-Go like phone. [Update: Post 472]

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If it has all the functions of the current PSPs (no analog nub is madness) and has a nice, compact form factor, I might consider getting it over an iPhone next year.
With enough of a marketing push plus some better support for the game library on PSN, I can really see this breathing some more life into the PSP.
 
Tobor said:
This is my assumption as well. I'm guessing this would be a side project, not a real PSP 2. Sony wouldn't let Sony Erricson be in charge of the real deal.

I think it would be the real deal - the next step in Sony's portable strategy - but it wouldn't be a Sony Ericsson thing specifically.

People are focussing on the Ericsson phone, but potentially the far more important part of this rumour is:

It seems that Sony Ericsson -- a company that has yet to even introduce an Android 2.0 device -- is at work on a project to redefine gaming on Google's mobile platform. We now know (via a trusted source) that the company is actively and heavily developing a brand new gaming platform, ecosystem, and device (possibly alongside Google) which are already in the late stages of planning. And we've got the goods on it.

Except replace Sony Ericsson with Sony or SCE. Sony Ericsson, I don't think, would be spearheading such a broad initiative using the Playstation business, that would obviously be SCE's remit. Ericsson is more likely to be 'just' a client device vendor, albeit one closely related to SCE.

The big news here, potentially, isn't the Ericsson phone, depending on how much you want to read into this it could go much further than that e.g. a respin of the PSP or next portable Playstation business under the Android banner, as the 'official' spec for Android gaming devices. A decoupling of PSP from specific Sony hardware to being a first class (albeit non-mandatory, I'm sure) part of the Android platform.


Gattsu25 said:
I would buy this if there was a non-phone version.

If the platform they talk about is PSP-based - has the PSP chipset as a hardware requirement for devices intending to support this platform - then there already exists non-phone versions of it ;) The article isn't very clear on this though...
 
according to the article it has thumbsticks. exept its not what you would expect. instead of actual physical thumbsticks you have a wide touchpad - like on a notebook - (multitouch?) sitting between the dpad and action buttons. that replaces the thumbsticks
 
am i the only one that hates carrying around three devices? having my droid, DS, and ipod touch in one pocket is crap.... I for one embrace the idea of having a true all in one.

I also feel the first portable/gaming phone that can summon up in-game trophies/cheevos will be a winner.
 
Bowler said:
am i the only one that hates carrying around three devices? having my droid, DS, and ipod touch in one pocket is crap.... I for one embrace the idea of having a true all in one.

I also feel the first portable/gaming phone that can summon up in-game trophies/cheevos will be a winner.

You know that your Droid can play music and games, right?

I bought my iPhone to solve exactly the problem you're describing.
 
Bowler said:
am i the only one that hates carrying around three devices? having my droid, DS, and ipod touch in one pocket is crap.... I for one embrace the idea of having a true all in one.

I also feel the first portable/gaming phone that can summon up in-game trophies/cheevos will be a winner.

Nope, I got rid of my PSP a while back and recently sold my ipod touch. I now have a nokia 5800 and it covers all my needs but gaming. There's some simple games and it's hackable and fun to play with but I'd be all over this PSP phone, QWERTY or not.

edit: thought about getting an iphone but didn't want to go with AT&T anymore. Bought my Nokia outright and use the wifi with no contract.
 
Not happening. Sony said they would never use the Playstation name for phones.

Also, since it's essentially a smart phone, it would be expensive as fuck and have shitty battery life (like the PSP isn't bad enough).
 
ICallItFutile said:
Sony could be making a PSP-type phone, but I just don't think they would brand it Playstation. They said awhile ago they denied Sony Erickson the name.

wasn't that over a year ago though?
 
It's still definitely a rumour.

But the context of SCE not allowing Ericsson to go off and play with the Playstation name on its own is a bit different than the context suggested here which is quite a bit broader.
 
ICallItFutile said:
Sony could be making a PSP-type phone, but I just don't think they would brand it Playstation. They said awhile ago they denied Sony Erickson the name.

Aren't SE under Kaz's management now? And when SE were denied the brand was before they merged Sony divisions.
 
I can see this giving new breath to the PSP platform if they can get Square to put Crisis Core on the Store, and get them to make a Before Crisis remake (it would still be on a Cellphone). I can see it being pretty popular if that's the case. :lol
 
Seriously guys? This is exactly what a psp phone needs to be. A great interface made by notsony , along with getting a gaming device simply by sliding out. Best of both worlds.

And sure it doesn't have an analog stick, but I rarely would care that much. I don't wanna play an fps on a mobile device, but almost everything else works without it. And the touchpad might do the trick.
 
ICallItFutile said:
Not happening. Sony said they would never use the Playstation name for phones.
.

Sony says a lot of things. Anyways this is a smart idea that has the potential to be fumbled badly. I'm dissapointed that this looks to be a PSP revision rather than a sucessor, but I can undersand next-gen type hardware would cause the price to skyrocket and the batterlife to plummet.

I really want this phone but I don't want to have to reinvest in digital versions of my PSP libary.
 
every time i think about this device, i see it more like a serious gaming phone (ngage?) than a new PSP. I mean, as i said before, actual controls mean easy snes/genesis/16bit arcade/psone ports and also some easy DS ports due to touchscreen (Layton for example). More oriented to relatively cheap gaming but serious afterall (playing without pad ain't serious for most genres)
Like a portable PNS/XBLA device+shovelware. Not really a high-end portable console with 3d intensive games.
It can also benefit from PSN movies/shows and comics too.

I hope they show it soon, because i want a new phone as soon as possible :D and i'd rather spend my money on this than purchsng a X10 :D
 
gofreak said:
The 3DS and 'app/mobile phone game market' are broadly in the same market.

In the sense that they're both in the "electronic gaming" market, perhaps. The 3DS' target market overlaps less directly with the app-game market than it does with the home-console game market, by a fairly large margin. If anything the 3DS is Nintendo entrenching themselves further away from direct competition with the iPhone.

gofreak said:
It strikes me as a playstation/android device.

More specifically, this looks to me like an Android device first, that's attempting to lean in and bite off some of Apple's well-established lead in app gaming, and leveraging the Playstation brand name (and maybe some of its software) in order to sell this device specifically. Inasmuch as this device winds up playing PSX/PSP games, it's sort of the phone equivalent of those EA DLC pack-in game promotions -- taking existing assets of decreasing value and using them to push a new product.

(What it does not look like is a serious attempt to bring dedicated-portable-style gaming into the mobile space, or a serious statement as to the future of the dedicated-gaming-portable business/"PSP2" at SCE.)

gofreak said:
I guess at the furthest reach of speculation, the most exciting scenario would be Google and Sony hammering out a new specification that would be an official, anointed - but not mandatory - part of the Android platform.

It's extremely hard for me to see how this would be a beneficial relationship for Google or one that fits well into their market strategy with Android.
 
charlequin said:
In the sense that they're both in the "electronic gaming" market, perhaps. The 3DS' target market overlaps less directly with the app-game market than it does with the home-console game market, by a fairly large margin. If anything the 3DS is Nintendo entrenching themselves further away from direct competition with the iPhone.

I meant less in terms of the type of software than in terms of demographic.

If they're aiming for older, more tech-savvy hardcore, more male - aka the PSP demographic they've said they want to try and tap - they will find that there's direct competition for the attention of this demographic with smartphones. Sony's market in the handheld space is probably a lot more vulnerable to the encroachment of iPhones and smartphones in general than Nintendo's DS demographic for example.

They offer very different types of software (PSP or 3DS vs iPhone) but the target demographic is very much overlapping with iPhone's.

charlequin said:
More specifically, this looks to me like an Android device first, that's attempting to lean in and bite off some of Apple's well-established lead in app gaming, and leveraging the Playstation brand name (and maybe some of its software) in order to sell this device specifically.

It might be a one-off device. But the earlier first paragraph of the article suggests something much broader and device-independent, something brewing at a platform level, as do some of the details of the hardware rumours IMO.

charlequin said:
It's extremely hard for me to see how this would be a beneficial relationship for Google or one that fits well into their market strategy with Android.

I've little doubt that Google would love to get its mitts on 'Playstation' in the context of Android. It would be a big boost to the platform and its gaming credentials, which is a pretty key battlefield in the mobile OS wars. On a nuts and bolts revenue level I can see how it would benefit both to 'share' a little.

I think the bigger challenges and disincentives are probably on Sony's side if anything (even if we might argue about whether they are surmountable or not).
 
thefil said:
You know that your Droid can play music and games, right?

I bought my iPhone to solve exactly the problem you're describing.


:D I know that, but I just got the droid, I have 5gigs on the ipod touch, and touch screen games are not me thing.... lol
 
Has anyone raised the specter of open Android vs. closed PlayStation? It'd be interesting to see how that would play out more than anything else, to me.
 
gofreak said:
I meant less in terms of the type of software than in terms of demographic.

The distinction you're drawing here isn't all that relevant. 3DS is full of games like Resident Evil and MGS that appeal to the traditional 18-35 male gamer. The reason no one's going to sit down and weigh out "do I buy an iPhone or a 3DS" is that they do almost completely non-overlapping things.

Sony's market in the handheld space is probably a lot more vulnerable to the encroachment of iPhones and smartphones in general than Nintendo's DS demographic for example.

Sony's market in the handheld space is more vulnerable than Nintendo's because they launched a product that was supposed to be a convergence media-player/gaming-system that was wtfpwned by the rise of the iPhone in the former category and didn't succeed as well as Nintendo's offering in the second category, so they have a product that's an also-ran rather than a market-leader in both categories.

It might be a one-off device. But the earlier first paragraph of the article suggests something much broader and device-independent, something brewing at a platform level, as do some of the details of the hardware rumours IMO.

Let me put it this way: the product described is not really a great "showcase" device for such a service, which suggests to me that even if such a service is being created, this is probably not the big, must-have launch phone to go with it.

I've little doubt that Google would love to get its mitts on 'Playstation' in the context of Android. It would be a big boost to the platform and its gaming credentials, which is a pretty key battlefield in the mobile OS wars.

Errr... why?

The Playstation brand name itself is not all that valuable for this purpose -- not now after its previous two portable outings were a middling success (PSP) and a ginormous failure (PSP Go) respectively. The PSP content is similarly not all that valuable as a "leg up" to Android (except maybe the PSX games) since it represents a gaming library that's old and that in itself was not tremendously successful in the marketplace.

The infrastructure of a gaming network could be very valuable to Google. A system for leaderboards, achievements, networked gaming, etc. is a new front of competition for mobile gaming and one they'll have to move into if they want gaming to be a big part of their platform. But pairing with Sony to do this is a poor fit for Google's platform strategy -- it would involve locking down their gaming system with closed-source, proprietary software, taking an extra cut from market software that used it (which currently pays only the 30% carrier cut out from sales) to pay Sony, and potentially wrecking the platform entirely if Sony decides down the road that they're no longer interested and pulls out of the agreement. In that scenario, why wouldn't Google just develop their own system?
 
charlequin said:
Errr... why?

The Playstation brand name itself is not all that valuable for this purpose -- not now after its previous two portable outings were a middling success (PSP) and a ginormous failure (PSP Go) respectively. The PSP content is similarly not all that valuable as a "leg up" to Android (except maybe the PSX games) since it represents a gaming library that's old and that in itself was not tremendously successful in the marketplace.

The infrastructure of a gaming network could be very valuable to Google. A system for leaderboards, achievements, networked gaming, etc. is a new front of competition for mobile gaming and one they'll have to move into if they want gaming to be a big part of their platform. But pairing with Sony to do this is a poor fit for Google's platform strategy -- it would involve locking down their gaming system with closed-source, proprietary software, taking an extra cut from market software that used it (which currently pays only the 30% carrier cut out from sales) to pay Sony, and potentially wrecking the platform entirely if Sony decides down the road that they're no longer interested and pulls out of the agreement. In that scenario, why wouldn't Google just develop their own system?

You have an interesting take but I don't really agree. Apple has already legitimized themselves with gaming and Microsoft is coming with Xbox Live and a dedicated studio full force. Gaming on Android is seen as a complete disaster and joke and Sony tried and failed to get a piece of the iGaming pie with the Go and Minis. Why not team up?

Overnight Android goes from a joke of a gaming platform to a mobile Playstation to battle Apple and Microsoft. It would open the door to a lot of money for both parties, get both of them into this bite sized mobile market as huge players while doing half the work and everyone wins. As for how long this deal would last and the damage it could do when it's over I think it's worth the risk. I don't see anyone being to upset if Sony and Google call it quits in 2 years because of it ending up a disaster. There's a lot to gain. Google needs to clean up Android gaming, Sony wants to accomplish what they failed to with the Go and Minis...why not use eachother's names and reputation.
 
charlequin said:
The distinction you're drawing here isn't all that relevant. 3DS is full of games like Resident Evil and MGS that appeal to the traditional 18-35 male gamer. The reason no one's going to sit down and weigh out "do I buy an iPhone or a 3DS" is that they do almost completely non-overlapping things.

I think even Nintendo recognises that this demographic wasn't as effectively addressed with DS as they would have liked. They've made no secret of the fact that they want the DS market they already have AND the PSP market. I think Reggie in E3 interviews even expressed it in such terms.

It's not necessarily a mutually exclusive thing, true - you're not necessarily going to buy one to the exclusion of the other, because to date they have differed greatly in the experience they offer. But the smartphone makes a better case for being the primary pocket device, and as their gaming competencies increase, that puts things like the PSP at risk that users will spend more gaming time on their 'smart' device vs their dedicated handheld.


charlequin said:
Sony's market in the handheld space is more vulnerable than Nintendo's because they launched a product that was supposed to be a convergence media-player/gaming-system that was wtfpwned by the rise of the iPhone in the former category and didn't succeed as well as Nintendo's offering in the second category, so they have a product that's an also-ran rather than a market-leader in both categories.

They're at risk more than simply because of how things turned out this gen.

As I said above, if the PSP owner is also a iPhone/smartphone owner or aspirant - which is I think more true of the PSP demographic than Nintendo's - as time goes on it puts PSP at more risk if those people spend increasing amounts of time and money gaming on that device rather than their PSP. I think undoubtedly that's already started to happen somewhat, and I think it's probable it would become more and more common going forward.


charlequin said:
Errr... why?

The Playstation brand name itself is not all that valuable for this purpose -- not now after its previous two portable outings were a middling success (PSP) and a ginormous failure (PSP Go) respectively.

In terms of PSP, next to DS it may be a middling success, but in terms of user volume, it was as successful in its first few years as iPhone was. That's not insubstantial.

Google wishes Android to have serious credibility and a differentiator vs Apple wrt gaming, and any of the existing 'gaming companies' could be attractive here. If you wanted to partner with an existing games platform to these ends you have maybe 3 choices. Of the 3, I don't think Playstation is the least attractive, or unattractive at all in absolute terms.

In terms of differentiation, it offers them a path to 'serious' gaming content at more premium prices, via Sony the support of 'serious' game developers, something even Apple hasn't entirely figured out yet. If they can successfully rope off more premium games content at higher prices sitting alongside the cheaper bite-sized stuff, it's a trick no one else has pulled yet, and Sony does offer experience and existing content here.

I also wouldn't dismiss the back catalogue. It is 'old', but it's still technologically competitive with anything in the mobile space, and I think it could attract new users. Thinking of myself I haven't touched my PSP in years. I don't even know where it is. I don't want a dedicated handheld unless it's doing something really different (like DS did). But if I could roll PSP into a Android phone? It'd become a 'why not' matter, and I've little doubt I'd rediscover the library in that context, while netting Google a new Android user. There are some people who don't necessarily want a PSP but who would not say no to PSP games if they were available on their phone or tablet. If you get where I'm coming from. I think here, context is as important as content, and I guess the bet might be that there's more people like me out there.

(Should be said, though, again that it's not totally clear in the article if this device, even, if PSP compatible anyway...but I hope it would be.)

charlequin said:
it would involve locking down their gaming system with closed-source, proprietary software, taking an extra cut from market software that used it (which currently pays only the 30% carrier cut out from sales) to pay Sony, and potentially wrecking the platform entirely if Sony decides down the road that they're no longer interested and pulls out of the agreement. In that scenario, why wouldn't Google just develop their own system?

If something didn't work out, it's probably best for all to part ways. Such a move wouldn't necessarily be retroactive however - playstation games wouldn't disappear from Android devices spontaneously. It'd be more a case of Sony, say, creating a new closed playstation platform that had nothing to do with it. Though it's not something Google would like, it wouldn't diminish the benefits of the relationship up to that point, Google will still have gained what they gained up until then.

As for openness, I'm not entirely convinced it's an issue that Sony's completely rigid on. I do agree though, that if Sony was intending to remain entirely 'closed' it makes the detail of an agreement like that suggested harder to fathom, more complicated.
 
charlequin said:
The infrastructure of a gaming network could be very valuable to Google. A system for leaderboards, achievements, networked gaming, etc. is a new front of competition for mobile gaming and one they'll have to move into if they want gaming to be a big part of their platform. But pairing with Sony to do this is a poor fit for Google's platform strategy -- it would involve locking down their gaming system with closed-source, proprietary software, taking an extra cut from market software that used it (which currently pays only the 30% carrier cut out from sales) to pay Sony, and potentially wrecking the platform entirely if Sony decides down the road that they're no longer interested and pulls out of the agreement. In that scenario, why wouldn't Google just develop their own system?

You mean why not invest the time and money to establish your own platform in market where Apple has already gained significant ground? Why not tap into a platform that is already designed for portable gaming, has established franchises and fanbase, and has countless other resources in all things gaming?

The sweetheart deal wouldn't necessarily last forever, but I think its pretty obvious that both companies potentially have much to gain in the short term. This is likely a 'test the waters' device which may or may not pan out.
 
jonnybryce said:
Why not team up?

Errr, because the potential benefit for Sony in such a partnership would be various exclusivity rights and royalty fees extracted from the sale of games and/or the inclusion of the platform, neither of which is compatible with the open-source approach which the core Android OS takes.

Alternately, because in order to fit with Android's business model, Sony would have to give up on getting any royalties or having any exclusive control over how their content was utilized, in which case, err, what exactly are they getting out of it?

gofreak said:

I'm mostly not going to rebut the demographic stuff in detail because it's not that relevant either way -- I don't think we disagree that "the PSP business" is under threat from Apple and Android in a way that "the 3/DS business" is not -- though I do think you're overselling the degree to which (essentially) DS is a kiddie system while PSP is for teh grownupz.

Google wishes Android to have serious credibility and a differentiator vs Apple wrt gaming, and any of the existing 'gaming companies' could be attractive here.

Right, except for the problem with the fundamentally incompatible business models.

it offers them a path to 'serious' gaming content at more premium prices, via Sony the support of 'serious' game developers, something even Apple hasn't entirely figured out yet.

Apple has purposely eschewed that market because they can make just as much money with a fraction of the investment supporting primarily small-scale or low-price games to the degree they do now.

I also wouldn't dismiss the back catalogue.

Depends on what it's used for. It's a great value-add for a product that's primarily a phone, is mostly sold for phone purposes, but also has good controls and includes access to the whole PSP library -- in sort of the same way that Dead Space: Extraction is a great value-add for Dead Space 2. The problem comes if you want to use it as an actual selling point rather than as a way to put an already-good product over to the next level.

Any platform that wants to actively capture gamers (not people-who-buy-phones-and-will-spend-money-on-games-to-play-while-they're-bored-on-the-bus) will need new, exciting content. The PSP library, definitionally, is not that.

Basically, if the SE device really is just a PSP bolted onto an Android phone as a way of making a hardware profit on the single device, it makes sense, but if Sony and Google were creating a mobile platform together, I think they'd be starting from scratch -- albeit maybe still including PSX emulation again.

As for openness, I'm not entirely convinced it's an issue that Sony's completely rigid on. I do agree though, that if Sony was intending to remain entirely 'closed' it makes the detail of an agreement like that suggested harder to fathom, more complicated.

The issue isn't so much the closedness (although that is at least potentially an issue since while it's possible that Sony could decide to go open it's completely infeasible for Google to include a closed system with Android) as the lack of revenue model implied by said closedness. Google's plan for Android is to give everything away (and by open-sourcing it, guarantee that it will be free to use forever) and then profit positionally in the long run via advertising. That doesn't really leave a place for Sony to extract money from the equation. It's deeply unlikely that Google would hike licensing fees from 30% to 45% on games to give Sony a cut, for example, and they literally don't have a cut themselves out of which they could pay Sony.

TheRagnCajun said:
You mean why not invest the time and money to establish your own platform in market where Apple has already gained significant ground?

Yes, Google is clearly a company who considers it inadvisable to invest the time and money to establish their own platform in a market where Apple has already gained significant ground. :lol
 
charlequin said:
Errr, because the potential benefit for Sony in such a partnership would be various exclusivity rights and royalty fees extracted from the sale of games and/or the inclusion of the platform, neither of which is compatible with the open-source approach which the core Android OS takes.

Hm. I don't really see what Android being open-source has to do with, wouldn't Sony make sales on hardware and software like anything else?

If this ends up being an app of sorts, just like Kindle or Blockbuster or other apps, Sony would make money from sales even if not on devices sold. If this is exclusive to a PSP phone, Sony would make money off of the hardware and sales of the games. What am I missing?


charlequin said:
Yes, Google is clearly a company who considers it inadvisable to invest the time and money to establish their own platform in a market where Apple has already gained significant ground. :lol

This is actually very true though, Google has no issue buying their way into the market rather than developing their own platform. From the Android project itself to the recent purchases/investments into social gaming services Zynga and Slide, Google would rather team up or buy something that already exists and start with legs to stand on then start from the ground up.
 
Even they are growing, Apple is nothing compared to Nokia or others:


Worldwide Mobile Device Sales to End Users in 2Q10 (Thousands of Units)

Company ------------------ 2Q10 Units ------------------ 2Q10 Market Share (%) ---------------- 2Q09 Units ------------------ 2Q09 Market Share (%)
1st : Nokia -------------------------- 111,473.8 ---------------------------------- 34.2 ---------------------------------- 105,413.4 ---------------------------------- 6.8
...
5th : Sony Ericsson ------------------ 11,008.5 ---------------------------------- 3.4 ---------------------------------- 13,574.3 ---------------------------------- 4.7
...
7th : Apple -------------------------- 8,743.0 ---------------------------------- 2.7 ---------------------------------- 5,434.7 ---------------------------------- 1.9


http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013

Worldwide LTD sales (Sony Ericsson)

Sony Ericsson posted its first profit in the second half of 2003. Since then, the sales figures from phones have been:

* 2004: 42 million units
* 2005: 50 million units
* 2006: 74.8 million units
* 2007: 103.4 million units
* 2008: 96.6 million units
* 2009: 57.1 million units

SonyEricsson_shipments2003to2009.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Ericsson

Worldwide LTD sales (iPhone)

Fiscal Year : Total sold

2007 : 1,389,000
2008 : 11,625,000
2009 : 20,731,000
2010 : 25,887,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IPhone_sales_per_quarter_simple.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone

So iPhone is like 390 million units LTD behind Sony Ericsson.

I'm lazy now, but about Nokia LTD numbers I only found that old data:
"At the end of the year 2007, Nokia managed to sell almost 440 million mobile phones which accounted for 40% of all global mobile phones sales"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia

So since 2007 until last quarter, Nokia just losed less than 6% of worldwide market share.
 
It's amusing. In the thread about Sony and Google possibly teaming up for some sort of tablet or possible PSP 2 ... me and some others assumed it would basically be this. Android Phone, with it's own marketplace for dedicated games. Oh the abuse we took ...




Anyway ... SO FUCKING AWESOME. I've been waiting to see how Project Emerald turns out, but I think this would jump ahead of it. I hope it's available for multiple carriers, and unlocked!!!



Hey Carmack ... how's about a Rage demo? :D
 
charlequin said:
Errr, because the potential benefit for Sony in such a partnership would be various exclusivity rights and royalty fees extracted from the sale of games and/or the inclusion of the platform, neither of which is compatible with the open-source approach which the core Android OS takes.

Alternately, because in order to fit with Android's business model, Sony would have to give up on getting any royalties or having any exclusive control over how their content was utilized, in which case, err, what exactly are they getting out of it?

The math might work out. I mean in terms of giving up royalties pitched against the potential for much better user reach, and taking their cut at the retail level vs the licensor level.

charlequin said:
though I do think you're overselling the degree to which (essentially) DS is a kiddie system while PSP is for teh grownupz.

I don't really intend that, it's a bit more subtle than age, but the tech savvy-ness of the demographics involved and their gadget interest etc. I'm not the only one saying it though, it was actually a study cited in an Edge editorial that brought it into sharp relief for me, the extent of the overlap between the kind of user PSP targets vs the kind of users smartphones are attracting.


charlequin said:
Right, except for the problem with the fundamentally incompatible business models.

As we know them right now.

If we took this rumour as is as true, without any further speculation, it on its own suggests they've found a way to harmonise their business models. As it is, collaborating on a platform and putting it on the Android Market - whether this platform is closed or open - suggests they've come to an agreeable business arrangement. I doubt Google would accommodate this, or Sony would pursue it, if they hadn't come to terms that satisfy both.

That's if the rumour is true, of course.

charlequin said:
Apple has purposely eschewed that market because they can make just as much money with a fraction of the investment supporting primarily small-scale or low-price games to the degree they do now.

Sure, but it doesn't reflect on my point. Regardless of Apple's intentions and whether they want that content or not, this kind of content and support would be a differentiator for Google.


charlequin said:
The problem comes if you want to use it as an actual selling point rather than as a way to put an already-good product over to the next level.

Any platform that wants to actively capture gamers (not people-who-buy-phones-and-will-spend-money-on-games-to-play-while-they're-bored-on-the-bus) will need new, exciting content. The PSP library, definitionally, is not that.

Basically, if the SE device really is just a PSP bolted onto an Android phone as a way of making a hardware profit on the single device, it makes sense, but if Sony and Google were creating a mobile platform together, I think they'd be starting from scratch -- albeit maybe still including PSX emulation again.

It may be the case, it's definitely an assumption about the PSP compatibility.

But I would separate the potential of existing PSP content (we'll leave that to taste), from the potential of the platform to host exciting content going forward.

Also, I agree that this sort of functionality wouldn't mask other deficiencies in any one particular device. I'm more talking about the benefit at a platform level than wrt specific devices and their implementations.


charlequin said:
The issue isn't so much the closedness (although that is at least potentially an issue since while it's possible that Sony could decide to go open it's completely infeasible for Google to include a closed system with Android) as the lack of revenue model implied by said closedness. Google's plan for Android is to give everything away (and by open-sourcing it, guarantee that it will be free to use forever) and then profit positionally in the long run via advertising. That doesn't really leave a place for Sony to extract money from the equation. It's deeply unlikely that Google would hike licensing fees from 30% to 45% on games to give Sony a cut, for example, and they literally don't have a cut themselves out of which they could pay Sony.

Google intends not solely to make money from advertising, but also via the Market. And that would be most obvious vector for Sony too. The question is if it would be worth Sony's while giving up licensor fees in exchange for potentially much greater retail reach for their content, and for content they'll get a cut on. For Google, whether it's worth - perhaps - giving up some of their cut on games content, or some games content, to get Sony's backing, content, brand etc. and it's own share on that content.

As I said earlier, that math might work out for both. I also don't necessarily think either would have to increase the Market fee to pay one another either...it's question of whether they think they'll be better off together and sharing (in some way or another) than each going alone. If this rumour alone is true, without speculating further about the nature of the platform, it does suggest they've figured something out and come to the conclusion that they can share in some or other way.

I don't know if the rumour is true, but I also would hesitate to say that it's impossible they could come to an agreement.
 
charlequin said:
Errr, because the potential benefit for Sony in such a partnership would be various exclusivity rights and royalty fees extracted from the sale of games and/or the inclusion of the platform, neither of which is compatible with the open-source approach which the core Android OS takes. l

Sorry dude, but I have no idea what are you talking about.

Google already allows device vendors and service providers to run their own, proprietary stores on Android platform.

Their open source licensing is NOT viral. It is licensed under the Apache license. Which means vendors can do whatever they want with it and they are not required to keep their software "open".

So yes, idea of PSP on Android is very much compatible with Apache license under which Android OS is licensed.

Why the fuck would Sony give up royalties and licensing? I suggest you read up on Apache license :).
 
goldenpp72 said:
Why is this a bad idea? I'd love an android phone with a slide out controller..
.



Man said:
Probably some basic hardware requirements for other phone makers: SnapDragon 1Ghz CPU or higher. Dpad + Touchpad + Buttons. Screen resolution etc.
That would be my guess. Potentially, phones could license to say PSPhone (or whatever) compatible - making it obvious. Either way, I suspect the Android Market will be able to detect if you are compatible and make the games available. Similarly, Sony will get some sort of cut of the game sales.

Seems like a win for everyone. Sony gets a huge leg in to the burgeoning phone gaming market, and Google gets a 'platform' for gaming. It will put it on a similar footing as Microsoft (who's phones have a minimum requirement, in part for gaming), but give them the obvious advantage of Playstation being part of it.

It'll be interesting to see if PSP games can somehow be supported. I'm not very confident in that, but I definitely expect it to have a VM for Mini's (they will be playable on basically everything in a few years) as well as a PS1 emulator at some point.



1-D_FTW said:
They're horribly wrong. Google has a market cap of 156.72 billion. Sony has a market cap of 29.91. There would be no merger. Google would either buy them or there would be no merger. Google is 5 times as large.
Why do people constantly use market cap when talking about these sorts of things? That's not how it works.



makingmusic476 said:
It sounds like an Android smartphone that happens to play PSP games. Meh.

I like the idea of a PlayStation Phone, but I'd want it to be a full successor to the PSP (PSP2), and I'd want it to have the PSN/XMB at its core, much like the PSP/PS3. Any Android features I'd like to be secondary to PS functionality, and I'd want it to continue and improve upon the PSP's functionality and compatability with the PS3.

This just sounds like an X10 with buttons and a section on the Android Marketplace for PSP titles. No PlayStation Store anymore?

It doesn't feel like a true PlayStation product.
A 'PlayStation Phone' as you envision isn't realistic. Think of battery life for starters.



GaussTek said:
IMO, they should use this:

http://www.stericsson.com/platforms/U8500.jsp

(or perhaps that's using a Snapdragon?)
No it's not and HOLY SHIT

unless there is a major die shrink, I can't imagine what sort of battery power this would have ... I need to look up some info on the Cortex A9



JordanLMiller said:
This, in my opinion, would be a really a bad move for the industry as a whole. Wouldn't putting major gaming support on a phone further legitimize the App Store type business model? I don't want 99¢ "games" to be the future...

Luckily, this won't happen!
Right? ;_;
And why can't cheap games co-exist with more expensive ones? It seems to work fine on PSN and Live.




Until more is known, I'm not sure why everyone is automatically condemning this.
 
Pimpwerx said:
I seriously doubt it'll be cheap. Think high-end smartphone pricing IMO. It will need a carrier subsidy, and if I was Sony, I'd dangle this carrot in front of Sprint or T-Mobile, because AT&T is Apple's turf.
Not anymore. AT&T is starting to release Android phones and iPhone will probably be announced for another carrier by the time this hits. Even if it hasn't, the writing is on the wall and, and AT&T knows there isn't going to be a contract re-up once it ends next year.

It's funny that $500 was considered too high for a PS3, but smartphones regularly cost that much without a contract.
I've never understood this.



Pimpwerx said:
BUAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :lol

Sorry, but SE's software support has been a running joke for years. I had to rely on TopSony, a spanish-language site to hack my Walkman phone. Good hardware, but shit software support. So if it's stock Android, then firmware updates are in Google's hands...for the most part. The problem with the X10 is SE's skin means they have to handle the firmware updates. The phone is still on 1.6. Other phones have gone through 2.0, 2.1 and are on 2.2 now. PEACE.
If this device comes out, I'm quite sure Google will make sure things are kept up to date. This phone would be getting a big push from them, and they wouldn't want it tainted.



kiunchbb said:
No dual analog? Instead now we have no analog at all?

Way to give opposite or what we wanted. Hopefully Sony ins't looking into another phone that only play Android and PSMini games.
It has dual analog, just not the type you were expecting.



tzare said:
Is Snapdragon that bad? How can a 1Ghz 2010 CPU be worst than psp's 2006 hardware?
The CPU in Snapdragon is fine - GPU is the issue.



Byakuya769 said:
Pretty predictable that the people who said this would never happen, are now reverting to "lol, this will be a catastrophe." Just admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
BWAAHAAAHAA



sca2511 said:
people wanted dual analog, now we get none.
reading FTL



bean breath said:
It'd be pretty embarrassing to use this in public, maybe from a distance it would look like you're texting but still.
How does playing a normal portable or playing games on an iPhone somehow look better? What are you even talking about? Are people just grasping for hate straws at this point?
 
gofreak said:
As the rumour puts it, this doesn't strike me as the playstation/android device...in terms of skins, I'd expect it to have whatever ericsson already uses. The games themselves aren't dependent on any specific skin being used.

It strikes me as a playstation/android device. In fact there may not be such a thing as the ps/android device, if you get my drift... the suggestion that Playstation/PSP might be a brand that 'plugs in' alongside an existing phone or device brand (such as Xperia) may carry interesting implications depending on how much you want to read into that.
yep



gofreak said:
FWIW, Sony's pushing the standard 'don't comment on rumours and speculation' line.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=259647

But that might be telling itself given that they occasionally have no problems in coming out and lol-ing at rumours.
While the details aren't confirmed, looks like its existence is ;)



gofreak said:
It also begs the question of the Playstation Store - what of it? Or is this 'new area of the Android Market' the Playstation Store in disguise, integrated with the Android Market?
That's what I would guess. Or at least it will have some overlap.

I guess at the furthest reach of speculation, the most exciting scenario would be Google and Sony hammering out a new specification that would be an official, anointed - but not mandatory - part of the Android platform. One that carries the Playstation branding and, probably, one that encompasses the PSP. I pick up that suggestion in some little bits of this rumour too, and it would indeed be the far bigger news than just one Ericsson device, but it does seem a bit out there at the same time...but it would be HUGE news.
This is exactly what I think (and hope) is the case.

It could actually lead to some even bigger things imo.
 
Raistlin said:
How does playing a normal portable or playing games on an iPhone somehow look better? What are you even talking about? Are people just grasping for hate straws at this point?

:lol :lol :lol
 
dark10x said:
Hmm, I wonder how much of a drain Android would be on performance of 3D games? PSP has a CPU clocked at 266 MHz (by default) and a GPU at under 200 MHz, I believe, along with 32mb of ram. Despite that, the performance of many of its games seems to run circles around anything on any Android phone (or even iPhone, for that matter).
The reason Android and iPhone games aren't typically up to PSP level is the PC Effect ... only it's even worse. Developers aren't going to develop for the top-of-the-line HW, they're going to shoot for some lowest common denominator. Closed systems (consoles, traditional portables) do not have such issues. Go over to the 'Rage on iPhone' thread if you want a better idea of what a high-end phone can actually do.

What I think 'Playstation on Android' (and WinMo7) will do is set a minimum spec high enough that the lowest common denominator will still be at least equal - and likely above - what the current and currently announced dedicated portables can do.
 
jonnybryce said:
If this ends up being an app of sorts, just like Kindle or Blockbuster or other apps

Then it wouldn't really have anything to do with Google, it'd just be an Android app that Sony made.

This is actually very true though

Yeah, that was kind of my point.

gofreak said:
The math might work out. I mean in terms of giving up royalties pitched against the potential for much better user reach, and taking their cut at the retail level vs the licensor level.

How are Sony going to take a cut at the retail level of anything when, if they're offering an open-source service as part of the Android OS, most people are just going to go buy more desirable handsets from more popular companies (Motorola, HTC, etc.) from which Sony won't see a dime.

If we took this rumour as is as true, without any further speculation, it on its own suggests they've found a way to harmonise their business models.

Broadly speaking, one should generally take subject-matter expertise one already has and use it to prove or disprove rumors, rather than take rumors at face value and then determine how they represent a challenge to your existing knowledge. :P

As it is, collaborating on a platform and putting it on the Android Market - whether this platform is closed or open - suggests they've come to an agreeable business arrangement. I doubt Google would accommodate this, or Sony would pursue it, if they hadn't come to terms that satisfy both.

I mean: sure, I agree -- my point is really more about what kind of agreement could fit? Google is a uniquely difficult partner for another software company (Android-wise) because their revenue model is so insanely hands-off and long-term -- unlike Apple, there's simply no regular profit stream that they can easily cut other partners in on.

Regardless of Apple's intentions and whether they want that content or not, this kind of content and support would be a differentiator for Google.

It would also be a kind of bad idea for Google (for the same reasons that trying to redouble a PSP2 as an amazing media player and hardcore game machine would be for Sony) because it would involve trying to tackle Apple and Nintendo at the same time.

But I would separate the potential of existing PSP content (we'll leave that to taste), from the potential of the platform to host exciting content going forward.

Well, the amount of future content generated by the PSP itself is fundamentally limited at this point. One way or another, the time left in the system's lifespan now is not very long. And if the regular PSP is dead, it doesn't particularly make sense to make "PSP" software for a phone instead of just "regular" software.

Google intends not solely to make money from advertising, but also via the Market.

Google takes no cut from the Marketplace. That's why it's hard to cut in a partner here -- rather than being able to chop their own profits, Google would have to take money directly away from publishers or the cell networks in order to find revenue for Sony here.

spwolf said:
Sorry dude, but I have no idea what are you talking about.

Take a look at what I'm responding to. You're completely right that Sony can make an Android phone for gaming or release their own marketplace app for Android games that they profit from. I'm just talking about gofreak's idea about Sony creating a gaming platform that becomes a core part of the Android OS.
 
Bowler said:
am i the only one that hates carrying around three devices? having my droid, DS, and ipod touch in one pocket is crap.... I for one embrace the idea of having a true all in one.

Yeah, that's the appeal here for me too. I think this sounds like a great idea, I don't care if one or two features aren't perfect or industry-leading.
 
gofreak said:
I think it would be the real deal - the next step in Sony's portable strategy - but it wouldn't be a Sony Ericsson thing specifically.

People are focussing on the Ericsson phone, but potentially the far more important part of this rumour is:



Except replace Sony Ericsson with Sony or SCE. Sony Ericsson, I don't think, would be spearheading such a broad initiative using the Playstation business, that would obviously be SCE's remit. Ericsson is more likely to be 'just' a client device vendor, albeit one closely related to SCE.
Yeah, I would think SE is tasked with creating the reference design that will be released as the 'official' PSAndroid ...

The big news here, potentially, isn't the Ericsson phone, depending on how much you want to read into this it could go much further than that e.g. a respin of the PSP or next portable Playstation business under the Android banner, as the 'official' spec for Android gaming devices. A decoupling of PSP from specific Sony hardware to being a first class (albeit non-mandatory, I'm sure) part of the Android platform.
... but others will license the 'platform'



thefil said:
You know that your Droid can play music and games, right?

I bought my iPhone to solve exactly the problem you're describing.
Some of us have a different definition for 'games'. No matter how good a current phone game is, the gameplay is always limited due to the lack of dedicated controls.



ICallItFutile said:
Not happening. Sony said they would never use the Playstation name for phones.
Things change. There's a completely different team running the show, and it's quite clear Sony and Google are having hot dirty sex.
 
gofreak said:
A side note, but one other part of the WSJ rumour seems to have got some backing in this report:

http://www.slashgear.com/sony-eyeing-android-for-future-reader-devices-1197243/

Apparently Sony Electronics was hiring a software engineer for digital reader software for Android based devices.
Yeah, check out spywolf's post

spwolf said:
I doubt SE is in charge...

Look here:
http://www.mobilitysite.com/2010/08/ebooks-new-android-based-sony-readers-may-be-coming/

Sony developing digital reader software for Android... seems like this is larger push within Sony.

I'm glad I held out on the Nook - I almost bought it last weekend. I really love the idea of it running Android, but there is no indication the OS will be updated on it, so I decided to hold out for Nook 2.

I was planning to root it, but Android 1.6 limits would can be done with it. A newer Nook could actually be hacked to run the Kindle App :lol. Definitely like were this is heading.
 
charlequin said:
It's extremely hard for me to see how this would be a beneficial relationship for Google or one that fits well into their market strategy with Android.

It's extremely hard for me to see how this wouldn't be
 
Huh.

Thought Sony wouldn't do a phone gaming platform, considering the problem PSP has had with piracy and the fact that the courts have just ruled that it's not a copyright law violation to alter your phone's firmware.
 
Htown said:
Huh.

Thought Sony wouldn't do a phone gaming platform, considering the problem PSP has had with piracy and the fact that the courts have just ruled that it's not a copyright law violation to alter your phone's firmware.

That may or may not apply to Android. I think it may not.
 
Raistlin said:
It's extremely hard for me to see how this wouldn't be

Because, again, by virtue of Google's platform strategy they're much better off developing "Gaming for Android" or whatever themselves because they don't have a revenue stream to cut a partner in on or a way to force any new revenue partners into the Android Marketplace equation.

Raistlin said:
That may or may not apply to Android. I think it may not.

Full text of the new addition:

Library of Congress said:
Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

Inasmuch as that wording applies to iPhone jailbreaking (and the intent was explicitly for it to cover that), it will apply to Android rooting as well.
 
charlequin said:
Because, again, by virtue of Google's platform strategy they're much better off developing "Gaming for Android" or whatever themselves because they don't have a revenue stream to cut a partner in on or a way to force any new revenue partners into the Android Marketplace equation.
It's a question of what is likely to be the best financial move - at least for the relatively short-term. Joining with Sony likely is the better choice.


Full text of the new addition:



Inasmuch as that wording applies to iPhone jailbreaking (and the intent was explicitly for it to cover that), it will apply to Android rooting as well.
Except Android doesn't prevent you from installing SW that isn't on their marketplace, does it? If no, then I suspect it does not legally apply.
 
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