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[Tunesmith]

Well im a bit disgusted by this.

Last year I was looking for a good deal for Far Cry 4 and Assassin Creed Unity as they were not on steam and would be my first Uplay exclusive games.

All I did was search for the cheapest deals and found Kinguin. Following that I made a few searches of 'is kinguin legit' and found nothing stating it was stolen or illegitimate keys. I just bought what I thought was a good deal and had no godamn idea of the shady market these sellers operate in and now I will potentially lose £90 because Ubisoft felt it would be better to punish me than act against the reseller.

Further cemented the idea that I will never buy a game exclusive for Uplay again. What a total shit, anti-consumer system. I say I have potentially lost the games because I'm playing Uplay in offline mode and now too scared to connect it again.

You blame Ubisoft for revoking stolen goods? You should blame the fraudsters for tricking you into giving your money to them instead of to Ubisoft.

Ubisoft is only protecting their business interests, if you were a paying customer with them you'd be included in that portion but if you decide to purchase goods from 3rd parties you always run the risk that something goes wrong, be it a revoked key or otherwise.

Ubisoft is far from the only organization that does this key revoking on a daily basis, every merchant that runs a legitimate business is victim of online fraud daily. Amazon, EA, Ubisoft, Valve, GMG, Humble Bundle etc. you name it, every single one of them does this, daily.


Then there's flip side to this situation, if you were to report a non-working key that you bought from G2A to G2A for example, they would probably jump on the spot to replace your key and make you a happy customer because to them they live on the ignorance of their customer base, plus replacing a stolen key with another is a very small cost (~$2-3) all things considered in order to keep up the charade.

 

[Yasae]

thats scummy, they should leave whats already been done but prevent future activations if they want to clamp down on this stuff

/end thread

There should be no deactivations, no after the fact screwing of consumers. If they want to cancel any keys bought from now and beyond, that's fine, but no rug pulling.

 

[Mononoke]

If the keys are stolen, then they have the right to do this. If the keys were paid for, and then people sold their keys on a second hand market (without that key having been activated). Then I don't agree companies should ban those.

But that is the problem with key and digital licence's. Maybe someone can clarify this for me. But once you buy a key, doesn't that mean you paid for the license? Or does that only happen when you activate the key?

 

[wumster3000]

Ubisoft keeps delivering and people are still buying their products. Go figure. I guess humanity is overrated.

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? Do you know what's going on?

 

[Bl@de]

If the keys are stolen, then they have the right to do this. If the keys were paid for, and then people sold their keys on a second hand market (without that key having been activated). Then I don't agree companies should ban those.

Agree. Have to check whats with my copies^^ Or does anyone know if it concerns MMOGA keys?

 

[AmaterasuOni]

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? Do you know what's going on?

Yes, we've been discussing about it for the last two pages. My first post was a bit too harsh. Just saying that their public image is going down the drain, drop by drop - even though they're right on this matter.

 

[Qassim]

If you buy stolen goods in the real world you're not allowed to keep them either, I don't really see what is different here.

 

[Tunesmith]

Agree. Have to check whats with my copies^^ Or does anyone know if it concerns MMOGA keys?

It likely concerns any grey market resellers, Ubisoft most likely just revoked a big batch of stolen keys, no way to know where and when those were sold.

 

[Bl@de]

It likely concerns any grey market resellers, Ubisoft most likely just revoked a big batch of stolen keys, no way to know where and when those were sold.

Well not every reseller has to sell stolen keys? That would be an unfair assumption

 

[dex3108]

Well not every reseller has to sell stolen keys? That would be an unfair assumption

And not every game bought from reseller got revoked.

 

[Lagamorph]

I thought a lot of these sites sold keys from places like Russia and India where games were just a lot cheaper rather than selling outright stolen keys.

 

[Mononoke]

If you buy stolen goods in the real world you're not allowed to keep them either, I don't really see what is different here.

Agreed. But let's say I buy a key legitimately and then turn around and sell it on a second hand market without activating it. That's not stolen. Sorry if it was clarified already, but are they banning these kind of keys? Are only keys they know are 100% stolen?

If it's stolen, I support these bans. Absolutely. It sucks for the user (who might not have known). But I think common sense should apply (and does in a lot of theft laws). If something is too good to be true, it probably isn't. You always take a risk IMO when going through an unofficial third party market/retailer.

I am sorry for those that legitimately didn't know.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

I thought a lot of these sites sold keys from places like Russia and India where games were just a lot cheaper rather than selling outright stolen keys.

This is what I've thought as well. Kinguin and G2A seem to be really big, I have never even thought they'd sell stolen or generated keys. I've thought they're doing some VPN tricks and have some connections to cheaper countries. But who knows?

I am sorry for those that legitimately didn't know.

There are many. Like I said earlier, the biggest streamers are promoting these sites. They're well known on every forum etc.

 

[Iorv3th]

/end thread

There should be no deactivations, no after the fact screwing of consumers. If they want to cancel any keys bought from now and beyond, that's fine, but no rug pulling.

Just to be clear here, if bought a stolen or illegitimate key and Ubisoft got no money from that, you are not one of their consumers.

 

[meanspartan]

FUCK Ubisoft. I use G2a on occasion, and it's not my problem if they are "grey" market or whatever (first I've heard of that). I paid for them, I am a bona fide purchaser. Ubisoft's recourse lies in actions against G2A, not me.

 

[Mononoke]

I get that, they have to sell keys cheaper in places that are developing. So it's not realistic for people to get around region locks and have everyone get them for that cheap price. They would go broke.

But that is kind of the problem with keys, or any product really. One someone buys it, they should have the right to sell it (do with what they please with it). As long as they didn't activate it. If people in these developing country's or anyone that is able to get these keys are able to get them at that price, should they not be able to sell the keys they paid for? Since they paid for it?

I dunno. I mean maybe when you buy keys it's specified you can't do that in the terms of service.. Would be curious if this would legally hold up?

EDIT: I do side with publishers here though. If it's stolen, it's stolen. They deserve money. I'm just a bit iffy on someone legitimately buying the key (so the Publisher got the money for that key), and someone turning around selling it however they please.

 

[jwhit28]

FUCK Ubisoft. I use G2a on occasion, and it's not my problem if they are "grey" market or whatever (first I've heard of that). I paid for them, I am a bona fide purchaser. Ubisoft's recourse lies in actions against G2A, not me.

The problem is G2A often doesn't pay for them or cancels payment costing publishers even more than straight up stealing the game.

 

[meanspartan]

The problem is G2A often doesn't pay for them or cancels payment costing publishers even more than straight up stealing the game.

Yes but because I didn't know they weren't legit until now, my previous purchases make me a bona fide purchaser without notice. Meaning in most US jurisdictions, I get to keep what I bought. Unless of course the law is different for digital (and who knows, maybe it is).

 

[Bl@de]

FUCK Ubisoft. I use G2a on occasion, and it's not my problem if they are "grey" market or whatever (first I've heard of that). I paid for them, I am a bona fide purchaser. Ubisoft's recourse lies in actions against G2A, not me.

Then you should direct your fucks at g2a and not ubisoft...

 

[kingwingin]

I'd view this the same as getting counterfeit money, last person holding the bill is out the money.

 

[Doombacon]

FUCK Ubisoft. I use G2a on occasion, and it's not my problem if they are "grey" market or whatever (first I've heard of that). I paid for them, I am a bona fide purchaser. Ubisoft's recourse lies in actions against G2A, not me.

You do not have good title on stolen goods after you buy them. Ubisoft can take them back. If that happens you will have recourse against G2A for selling you stolen goods which you can demand a refund for.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

SURELY this will help defeat piracy right? I'm sure every single person who gets their games deactivated will turn around and buy them full price off the Official Uplay Store, and not resort to obtaining them for free (or much cheaper) using other means. Just like how DRM has helped save PC gaming from the hordes of greedy freeloaders and pirates.

Bunch of scammers trying to get full-price PC games for $5-10 off retail price, geez. They obviously deserve what's coming to them!

 

[jwhit28]

Yes but because I didn't know they weren't legit until now, my previous purchases make me a bona fide purchaser without notice. Meaning in most US jurisdictions, I get to keep what I bought. Unless of course the law is different for digital (and who knows, maybe it is).

A stolen product doesn't stop being stolen just because the theif was able to sell it. There is no way to know how they got the keys. Its the digital equivalent of buying something out of someone's trunk.

 

[Mononoke]

SURELY this will help defeat piracy right? I'm sure every single person who gets their games deactivated will turn around and buy them full price off the Official Uplay Store, and not resort to obtaining them for free (or much cheaper) using other means. Just like how DRM has helped save PC gaming from the hordes of greedy freeloaders and pirates.

Bunch of scammers trying to get full-price PC games for $5-10 off retail price, geez. They obviously deserve what's coming to them!

It doesn't solve the problem, in the sense that, those that bought the game cheap, won't turn around and pay for the game through an official retailer at the higher price. They will just wait for the game to officially go on sale. But that might be better for publishers, as they will eventually get that money.

I do agree that this won't make people buy the game at full price. They just won't buy it. Perhaps these people will WAIT for the game to officially drop in price. Although maybe they won't buy the gamer ever as a result of not caring once time passes. I guess it's hard to say.

There will always be a problem in a market, where some people either I. Don't have the money to buy goods at the retail/high price. II. Some people don't value games at that price. They don't think they are worth $60. Same issue we've had with music sales. These people won't magically go buy the game if piracy/ second hand selling didn't exist. They just wouldn't buy them.

I think that's probably why things like DLC and micro transactions exist. They hope those that pirated the game, or who bought it second hand, will then buy things in game (even if in small chunks). So as much as we hate micro transactions, it's probably a result of pirating. I don't think that excuses games being designed around it though, which punishes everyone (including those that paid for it at full price).

 

[Nzyme32]

FUCK Ubisoft. I use G2a on occasion, and it's not my problem if they are "grey" market or whatever (first I've heard of that). I paid for them, I am a bona fide purchaser. Ubisoft's recourse lies in actions against G2A, not me.

You essentially paid for illegitimate keys to an item. Ubisoft is not at fault, G2A are. If you have had the key rejected or banned, then you should be fighting with G2A to get your money back from them, because they are the ones that have cheated you.

What you are saying in your post as it stands, is that it is not your fault that the store got them illegitimately, which is true, but Ubisoft should not be made to pay for stolen goods. It is the store's fault for providing it to you with out disclosing the fact. It sucks for you if this is the case, but you have to deal with it. Ubisoft are not the only ones to do this relating to G2A, so stop shopping there if you expect to keep your games

 

[Fredrik]

This is like finding out that the console is banned months after buying a few cheap games from other regions, total silence while the shopping frenzy goes on and then, BAM! mass-bannings and tears everywhere.

 

[Polk]

lop

Ubisoft keeps delivering and people are still buying their products. Go figure. I guess humanity is overrated.

I don't have problem with Ubi saying something along "Sorry but this game was bought by fraudulent transaction, ie. stolen CC or stolen key".
But Ubi should comunicate to users why they are disabling licence. So users could be aware they were duped.

Ubisoft is only protecting their business interests, if you were a paying customer with them you'd be included in that portion but if you decide to purchase goods from 3rd parties you always run the risk that something goes wrong, be it a revoked key or otherwise.

Well they could gather some good will allowing to purchase those games on discount.

 

[ISee]

Agree. Have to check whats with my copies^^ Or does anyone know if it concerns MMOGA keys?

According to some posts in the german ubisoft forum some mmoga-unity keys were revoked. Interesting as even biger german print gaming magazines openly advertise for mmoga.de. Especialy with pricefinders on their own websites. (E.g. gamestar.de)

 

[pompidu]

So is G2A actually stealing keys(charge backs) from Ubisoft or just buying and reselling them? There is a difference.

 

[Mononoke]

So is G2A actually stealing keys(charge backs) from Ubisoft or just buying and reselling them? There is a difference.

If that's true, that's fuckin shady as hell. 100% theft.

 

[meanspartan]

A stolen product doesn't stop being stolen just because the theif was able to sell it. There is no way to know how they got the keys. Its the digital equivalent of buying something out of someone's trunk.

It doesn't stop being stolen, but in many cases, the buyer gets to keep it if they did not know it was stolen. Legal doctrine known as "Bona Fide Purchaser" or "Good Faith Purchaser for Value without notice"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_purchaser

 

[NIN90]

I'm fairly sure Valve does the same with illegitimate keys.

 

[demigod]

If you buy stolen goods in the real world you're not allowed to keep them either, I don't really see what is different here.

If you buy stolen goods in the real world, chances are you know its stolen. Anything sold on ebay or craigslist is impossible to know if its stolen unless you know its your stuff that was stolen and looks like it.

 

[pompidu]

If that's true, that's fuckin shady as hell. 100% theft.

Well im asking since ubi hasnt released a response yet. People are just assuming G2A is stealing them some how.

 

[TwoDurans]

While I don't agree with the removal of games from uPlay lists, I also don't think anyone who bought a code from a site operated in Hong Kong for 90% off is a victim here.

 

[Mononoke]

Well im asking since ubi hasnt released a response yet. People are just assuming G2A is stealing them some how.

Ah okay. Yeah I'm not 100% sure either. But if that is the case. I do think Ubisoft needs to address this, because so many people are being impacted by it. Even though I do think, this ultimately falls on the consumer (and not Ubisoft) in terms of responsibility, they should let their audience know WHY the keys are being banned.

Being stolen the way you just said, well it would be obvious why they were banned.

 

[DSN2K]

disgraceful act by Ubi, stop future keys if you want but to take games away from people is wrong.

 

[mugurumakensei]

So is G2A actually stealing keys(charge backs) from Ubisoft or just buying and reselling them? There is a difference.

G2A doesn't sell keys directly. The individual sellers will typically get the keys through any means available. Charge backs, buying in bulk from developing countries, and, in some cases, selling promotional keys, and some legit keys are all possible. When you go onto G2A, you are playing russian roulette with the key. It may be legit. It may be a key where the seller not only stole the key in essence but also cost the publisher additional funds to cover charge-back fees.

It doesn't stop being stolen, but in many cases, the buyer gets to keep it if they did not know it was stolen. Legal doctrine known as "Bona Fide Purchaser" or "Good Faith Purchaser for Value without notice"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_purchaser

Most countries operated under "Nemo dat quod non habet". It you will not be legally charged with a crime if you did not know the good was stolen; however, the right to the object reverts to the original owner( in this case the publisher ).

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Wow, for those who question why many people don't want physical games to go anywhere, can you see why now? I mostly purchase digitally, but moves like this are truly disgusting and I hope games don't see digital-only for a long time..

Can't believe Ubisoft is doing this.

 

[meanspartan]

And aside from legal doctrines, it's just dumb on Ubisoft's part. They are better off sending a notice to customers who have one of these stolen keys, letting them know which websites are at issue, and allow them to keep the game THIS TIME. But since they are now on notice, if they shop at those websites it would then be their own fault.

G2A fooled me, and I won't be shopping there any more. But until now I saw them as yet another vendor and figured their pricing just was sometimes (not always) lower because they sold from other countries where keys might be cheaper. And they frequently advertise and have a perfectly legitimate looking website.

If Ubi makes such games disappear without notice, all it does is piss off their customers. At a time when their PR is at such lows due to broken games, they should probably reconsider.

 

[giant_frying_pan]

I read this thread title as Ubisoft is removing Uplay

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Ubisoft is breaking the law here, for certain in the EU, regarding consumer goods.

I'm pretty sure selling stolen goods is illagel in Europe as well. As a matter of fact I know it is.

/end thread

There should be no deactivations, no after the fact screwing of consumers. If they want to cancel any keys bought from now and beyond, that's fine, but no rug pulling.

This is simply not possible and it has been stated in this thread over and over again. It takes time to investigate if a key is stolen or not. Even if they would do as you suggest we would have the same thread in a couple of months when the next batch of stolen keys gets revoked.

 

[Doombacon]

Wow, for those who question why many people don't want physical games to go anywhere, can you see why now? I mostly purchase digitally, but moves like this are truly disgusting and I hope games don't see digital-only for a long time..

Can't believe Ubisoft is doing this.

If you buy from authorized resellers or the company selling the product directly this is never an issue.

 

[funkypie]

They may take our games, but they will never take our freedom.

 

[Palette Swap]

disgraceful act by Ubi, stop future keys if you want but to take games away from people is wrong.

In the case of key sellers reselling keys obtained through CC fraud or stealing, you can't necessarily block them in advance. I don't know if that's the case here but see what BlimBlim describes in the FAQ thread about why we aren't supposed to discuss or promote these guys in the first place.

 

[pompidu]

G2A doesn't sell keys directly. The individual sellers will typically get the keys through any means available. Charge backs, buying in bulk from developing countries, and, in some cases, selling promotional keys, and some legit keys are all possible. When you go onto G2A, you are playing russian roulette with the key. It may be legit. It may be a key where the seller not only stole the key in essence but also cost the publisher additional funds to cover charge-back fees.

Ah, ok, that paints a better picture. Now this really muddies the water. I can understand Ubi's reaction to this whole thing. They really should send out a bulletin to individuals accounts explaining why their games were removed.

 

[dex3108]

Wow, for those who question why many people don't want physical games to go anywhere, can you see why now? I mostly purchase digitally, but moves like this are truly disgusting and I hope games don't see digital-only for a long time..

Can't believe Ubisoft is doing this.

If you want to point bad things about digital future point at Rockstar and removing content (songs) from GTA VC and SA. This move that Ubisoft made is standard practice when issues with keys are discovered.

 

[SlaughterX]

I bought FC4 and ACU from eBay from people that bought Samsung SSDs, hopefully I'm not screwed...

 

[mugurumakensei]

Ah, ok, that paints a better picture. No this really muddies the water. I can understand Ubi's reaction to this whole thing. They really should send out a bulletin to individuals accounts explaining why their games were removed.

It's also why some people kept their keys and some didn't.

 

[MUnited83]

Wow, for those who question why many people don't want physical games to go anywhere, can you see why now? I mostly purchase digitally, but moves like this are truly disgusting and I hope games don't see digital-only for a long time..

Can't believe Ubisoft is doing this.

Buy from legit sites. Done.

That was easy, wasn't it?