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[Starwolf_UK]

Some channels are earning money off all types of videos including trailers which all they did was download and reupload.

They sohuldn't be. When I proposed to be a partner (years ago I had fun of taking trailers from official sites, putting onto youtube, virial marketing; no need to do so now as publishers put trailers onto youtube end of, well actually I was putting up SEGA ones at the same time and I was getting more views than them) the text was very clear about it being videos you made, not stuff you found elsewhere..

But then I guess that is the problem with the montesisation, is it is not individual videos but whole channels.

 

[Dead Man]

I think we're on the same page. I'm talking about why they don't do it. You're talking about why they don't need to do it. Both are correct

Indeed, I just realised that myself, sorry if I cam across as snarky.

 

[KillerTravis]

The less PewDiePie the better.

 

[Can Crusher]

The less PewDiePie the better.

Pewdiedie is everything that is wrong with this bullshit. Dude makes more money than most of the people who make the games.... all he has to do is use their work and put annoyingly unfunny commentary on top. What a fucking shit show.

 

[VE3TRO]

So what kind of views are you getting now and how much are you seeing in return?

I was getting around 4.5 million views a month which in earnings was about £3500. This was a contract between myself and YouTube so I had no middle man likes of Machinma or IGN to take 30-40% cut. I now get around 500,000 a month and £200-300 since YouTubes last few updates have screwed me over but others haven't been affected.

I decided to join up with IGN last year and the earnings where typically the same but they did fuck all in promotion for me or keeping in talks with me. Then in June IGN closed its partnership program down meaning all those with them were kicked out and had to find another network.

IGN suggested Polaris formerly TheGameStation and we talked and the same typical thing tbh. "We will promote you blah blah." "Earnings will increase due to high paid ads". "We will increase your channel size."

Well I've been with them since August and just the same as IGN but even worse money. I got my paycheck from them few weeks ago for September and I laughed. I basically got paid a whole months worth for the same amount I earned in one day when I was with YouTube.

If I continue to purchase games for video content I would probably be losing out £200-400 a month. So from October I just stopped using the channel. Anything new I uploaded wasn't really been seen by my subscribers or promoted so I was basically doing work for fuck all.

I have a lot more worrying stuff going on at the moment so I don't really give a shit about it no more.

Only reason I started it back in 2006-7 was to be at home and look after my mum who is disabled. Just to bring in cash since it was hard working away and we wasn't getting any type of help.

I'm just glad I've saved most of the money so it's there for emergencies.

 

[RVinP]

Game
.no YouTube 'Lets Play' Video

And
.don't buy

Why
.don't trust commercial review sites/groups sharing unfair opinion (as reviews) irrelevant to relative satisfaction or expectation by a user

 

[jakonovski]

In the simplest terms, this is just a wealth transfer from individual entrepreneurs to corporations. All the money came from advertisers, and I don't think any of them are going to change their marketing budgets over this.

Another small step in the widening income gap. Because corporations and the 1% need to have all the money.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

I was getting around
I'm just glad I've saved most of the money so it's there for emergencies.

Thanks for the insightful stories, I know your not suppose to self promote content on neogaf but could you tell me what to google for your new YT channel?
I'm very interested now because of your story.

 

[kazebyaka]

Pewdiedie is everything that is wrong with this bullshit. Dude makes more money than most of the people who make the games.... all he has to do is use their work and put annoyingly unfunny commentary on top. What a fucking shit show.

blame people who watch it

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Indeed, I just realised that myself, sorry if I cam across as snarky.

S'all cool. I think we got off on the wrong foot because my first post in the thread was objecting to a car analogy, which has become a bit of a cliche round here*.

To put my cards on the table, I think that some people are watching LPs instead of playing the game. For those people the videos would appear to be a market susbstitute, which is one of the four factors the US courts consider (along with amount, nature, and purpose of the copyrighted work) when assessing whether a use is a "fair use", and which acts against the LP-ers. Working out this effect seems non-trivial (suggestions welcome!).

On the other hand, due to the sheer number of LP-ers on youtube, those that do make substantial money off the videos must have an audience that is drawn to some added-value which is tied, at least to some extent, to their personality. I think, therefore, that it would be fair to have that contribution represented as some form of co-authorship of the video. The extent of that contribution, and the share of remuneration due, is non-trivial though, and I don't really have any good suggestions for working it out.

So, a thorny issue and certainly not black and white. I'd say that the law as it stands is inadequate though, and that there will probably be some changes to reflect this in the future.

*

Spoiler

This isn't a cue for someone to scour my post history and find a time when I made a videogames=cars analogy. I'm sure I've done it at some point. Pls don't ether me Coldfoot :-(

 

[TheExodu5]

I don't see the point. What do corporations get out of this, exactly? All they're doing is dicentivizing content creators from putting up free advertising for their games.

This just seems incredibly short sighted to me.

 

[jakonovski]

I don't see the point. What do corporations get out of this, exactly? All they're doing is dicentivizing content creators from putting up free advertising for their games.

This just seems incredibly short sighted to me.

They're afraid their games have no redeeming qualities beyond the watching of a LP. For AAA that is probably the truth already.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

I don't see the point. What do corporations get out of this, exactly? All they're doing is dicentivizing content creators from putting up free advertising for their games.

This just seems incredibly short sighted to me.

They think they are losing money because people watch LP's of new releases instate of buying the game.
Also that other people are making money on their IP and they not nothing from it.

Those are their reasons

But there is no evidence for any and their can never be real evidence to proof one way or the other, except when its not there anymore you lose a lot of PR.

 

[TriGen]

If they're cracking down on monetized gameplay vids, but not gameplay vids in general, then I imagine successful LP's will keep doing them just non-monetized, except in addition they'll start uploading a lot more monetized videos where they're just talking into a webcam or something. Maybe a behind-the-scenes episode for every regular LP episode. If you're popular you'll get views on every video, so you could just use the LP to keep the fans happy but make your money from other stuff.

I also imagine we'll see more people do reviews without gameplay. And video podcasts.

 

[Trojita]

I was getting around 4.5 million views a month which in earnings was about £3500. This was a contract between myself and YouTube so I had no middle man likes of Machinma or IGN to take 30-40% cut. I now get around 500,000 a month and £200-300 since YouTubes last few updates have screwed me over but others haven't been affected.

You were clearing close to $5000 a month?

 

[TheExodu5]

They think they are losing money because people watch LP's of new releases instate of buying the game.
Also that other people are making money on their IP and they not nothing from it.

Those are their reasons

But there is no evidence for any and their can never be real evidence to proof one way or the other, except when its not there anymore you lose a lot of PR.

Yeah I'll just go ahead and say they're missing the mark completely, just like they did with DRM.

Valve seems to be the only big publisher out there that understands the power in having the community create content for their games, be it videos or Dota 2 skins. Other publishers should rethink their strategy.

 

[Can Crusher]

People use to make money making strategy guides forever ago using in game images and such. Whats the difference?

They had to write and actually put in considerable work.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

They had to write and actually put in considerable work.

I'm sure Let's Players put in considerable work too. The main difference from a legal perspective is that you don't infringe a copyright work by describing it in your own words. In fact, a guidebook on how to complete a game would be a literary work itself, protected by copyright and owned by the author.

Edit: Just saw the "game images" bit. Those would probably infringe copyright.

 

[drkOne]

If someone prefers to watch a walkthrough instead of playing your game, your game probably wouldn't get bought by said person.
Meanwhile, your game might get bought by someone who goes on YT to see if they like your game. Not to mention famous let's players will expose games to an audience that probably didn't know about them.

Minecraft and Day Z come to mind as games that sold a lot more because of YouTube.

 

[VE3TRO]

You were clearing close to $5000 a month?

Yup and I'm not a large channel like some. I expect larger ones are earning $10,000-20,000 a month easily. Wouldn't surprise me if Pewdiepie, Yogscast and some other massive ones were earning triple that.

Last month Pewdiepie had 207,521,700 views. That's 207 million. I was earning $6000 on 4 million. Even if Polaris was taking a 20-30% cut imagine how much Pewdiepie has left over. Quite possible $150,000. I'm sure he's already earned a few million.

Thanks for the insightful stories, I know your not suppose to self promote content on neogaf but could you tell me what to google for your new YT channel?
I'm very interested now because of your story.

I'll PM you the channel later today.

 

[NotLiquid]

Dont care much for LP videos but I'd hate for this to affect informative/entertainement channels like JonTron, PBG and ThatOneVideoGamer/The Completionist.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

If someone prefers to watch a walkthrough instead of playing your game, your game probably wouldn't get bought by said person.
Meanwhile, your game might get bought by someone who goes on YT to see if they like your game. Not to mention famous let's players will expose games to an audience that probably didn't know about them.

Minecraft and Day Z come to mind as games that sold a lot more because of YouTube.

This is VERY true but the problem Big publishers and devs don't see it that way.
And problem goes bough ways sadly, there is no way to prove if it does help of not help sales.
Just like how piracy is blamed for everything but there is no way to prove any of it, but most real studies have shown that the only thing that does HELP sales is no DRM and being as open and easily available.

I'll PM you the channel later today.

Thanks

 

[Dusk Golem]

Hmn, I don't really know what to say to this. I am a YouTuber who gets money off LPs, but that's not exclusively why I do it. I need to read and see more I suppose.

While I don't know if anyone would have any questions, is there anything I can answer as a YouTuber who makes money off of LPs?

 

[Screamapillar]

That's actually pretty freakin stupid to have all those policies for different companies. Should've agreed on one like TakeTwo's.

So all the publishers should form a YouTube Monetization Alliance?

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Last month Pewdiepie had 207,521,700 views. That's 207 million. I was earning $6000 on 4 million. Even if Polaris was taking a 20-30% cut imagine how much Pewdiepie has left over. Quite possible $150,000. I'm sure he's already earned a few million.

There was a post on GAF a few months ago about how pewdiepie had earned millions from youtube. I wouldn't be surprised if it was that coverage that caused this whole change in youtube policy.

 

[Enosh]

I'm not sure on this issue

from what I gather LPs aren't going anywhere people just won't be able to make money off them, which does make sense, you can't upload the latest movie with you saying something every 5 mins and not expect to be sued to oblivion
sure there is the argument that games are an interactive experience, but really that depends on a game by game basis, less so in some examples (heavy rain, telltale games etc) and more so in others (mario), some games just put a big focus on the story and word they try to present, i don't think anyone is watching a LP of let's say "the wolf among us" for the exiting gameplay

on the other hand a lot of these peoples livelihood depends on that LP money so cutting them off from that will certainly kill a lot channels since they simply won't be able to afford the time and money to invest into quality LPs without getting paid

 

[vg260]

on the other hand a lot of these peoples livelihood depends on that LP money so cutting them off from that will certainly kill a lot channels since they simply won't be able to afford the time and money to invest into quality LPs without getting paid

and that's totally fine. The fact they make their living on these videos does not justify their existence. It think it's a way to make money that lacks integrity to begin with and is disrespectful to the artist/creators.

 

[Zing]

Are YouTube channels paid strictly based on video views? Shouldn't it be ad views? Because I watch on iPad where I don't get the adobe flash based ads, and just click "skip" after 5 seconds on the ads I do get. I was told channels don't get paid for skipped ads.

On a side note, I have never watched a pewdiepie video in my life, despite it constantly being listed next to he other "popular" shit that essentially has a permanent spot on the top viewed lists (smosh, bfvsgf, vsauce, etc). I suspect there is some of the "top 10" effect here, similar to the apple App Store, where the top items are in the top list, which means they get more clicks, which keeps them in the top list. It keeps other good content from being easily found.

 

[RetroStu]

I just watched DSP's 'week in preview' vid and he says there is a lot of miss-information and fear mongering being spread about these changes and that in reality very little is going to change, he said he's going to do a vlog video tomorrow explaining the changes in depth.

 

[curb]

There was a post on GAF a few months ago about how pewdiepie had earned millions from youtube. I wouldn't be surprised if it was that coverage that caused this whole change in youtube policy.

Good lawd. I don't even know what to think of that.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

aaww shucks, now they'll have to go get real jobs like the rest of us

It's comments like this that piss me off. I genuinely don't get it.

For the record, I don't make any money from youtube so this isn't coming from a stance of defensiveness.

When people say things like this, I'm trying to understand where the anger comes from. What's stopping YOU exactly from doing the same thing? The capture hardware is less than $150.00. You also have a video game console. If enough people put value in what you have to say, then like anything else with value in our society, it can be monetized.

There seems to be a prevailing bitterness from people about the Youtube blogger/game journalist thing. If you're a developer/publisher, sure, I can see THAT perspective - although I have a different argument there.

However, when Johnny Gamer gets angry about Youtubbers getting paid and them not having 'real' jobs, I have to ask, "Why do you even care??"

So your ____________ job is better because, why? You're doing physical labor? The result of your work is tangible, thus making it more valuable? You're saving lives? Teaching children? Bagging groceries? Filing papers? Balancing spreadsheets? There's so much disdain from gamers about THEIR OWN PROFESSED PASSION, that it's schizophrenic.

I really don't get it.

 

[crazyrabbits]

He is correct though, you just own a license to play they game and if a publisher decides tomorrow that your digital library is no longer yours and even with most retail games now that are connected etc,
You have no right to ANY of it.
And they have the right to revoke it at anything for ANY reason they want.

Same goes for any music/tv/movies that you own btw.

Incorrect.

The law of first sale doctrine (which applies to physical copies - don't know about digital content because of the grey area) dictates that you have a non-commercial right to use your product the way you see fit, short of trying to copy and distribute it for profit.

It's quite amazing how many people don't understand this fact, and have been brainwashed with recent EULA changes. We ran into the same issue earlier this year when SOPA was being floated around.

 

[RetroStu]

Incorrect.

The law of first sale doctrine (which applies to physical copies - don't know about digital content because of the grey area) dictates that you have a non-commercial right to use your product the way you see fit, short of trying to copy and distribute it for profit.

It's quite amazing how many people don't understand this fact, and have been brainwashed with recent EULA changes. We ran into the same issue earlier this year when SOPA was being floated around.

I don't think its that they don't understand it, its more that they have been brainwashed into believing everything they are told by corporations etc, being told that what they are doing is 'bad' (doinf playthroughs, selling used games etc).
Of course its total bullshit which is why corporations always try to bend the rules or bring new policies in that quickly get withdrawn or stopped by courts etc because its not lawful.
They think people are stupid and easily brainwashed (and they are to an extent) but thankfully there are always a few people who study these things and stops mega corporations trying to fleece us and do what they want.

 

[crazyrabbits]

I don't think its that they don't understand it, its more that they have been brainwashed into believing everything they are told by corporations etc, being told that what they are doing is 'bad' (doinf playthroughs, selling used games etc).
Of course its total bullshit which is why corporations always try to bend the rules or bring new policies in that quickly get withdrawn or stopped by courts etc because its not lawful.
They think people are stupid and easily brainwashed (and they are to an extent) but thankfully there are always a few people who study these things and stops mega corporations trying to fleece us and do what they want.

There's a lot of garbage when it comes to publisher policies, most of which either can't or won't be enforced due to not holding up in the court system.

The only reason we haven't see EA get challenged yet on their "you don't own the game, just the licence" clause is because no one's taken them to task - it snuck through, but has been laughed out of courts (the EU more or less refuses to accept EULA's in most forms). Of course, that's beside the point.

I agree that this is going to change Youtube, and not for the better. There is a clear line with providing commentary/critique over what is ostensibly a unique user experience. I can't see how this system is going to benefit anyone. Even the publishers are going to get shot in the foot when major channels start changing their content to appease someone higher-up.

Then again, the gaming industry has always taken the myriad opportunities to devour itself like a snake when they arise. This is no different.

 

[Storm Chamber]

What's stopping YOU exactly from doing the same thing?

Dignity, self-respect..... you know, the little things.

 

[Orayn]

Dignity, self-respect..... you know, the little things.

Too dignified and self-respecting to make money doing something you love, clearly.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Dignity, self-respect..... you know, the little things.

Plus at this point and time.... it's extremely hard to get anywhere on youtube unless you have some sort of act. Raging (AngryJoe/Francis), waisting food (how to basic), eating spicy shit while you review games (hot pepper gaming), etc.

Otherwise your getting a handful of views from your stuff and not making anything remotely what some of these folks get so there is that too.

 

[Storm Chamber]

Too dignified and self-respecting to make a living doing something you love, clearly.

Lets take a look at the most successful Youtuber:

.....yeah, I'm good.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

Lets take a look at the most successful Youtuber:

.....yeah, I'm good.

Like I said, I don't create youtube videos. I'm far too old, and don't think that I have anything substantial to contribute. That said, If Angry Joe or PewDiePie or whoever has found an audience that likes what they have to say, and has amassed it in enough numbers that advertisers want to court that audience, why should any of us be angry about it?

Personally *I* don't watch that stuff, but those simply aren't for my specific tastes.

Were I to create videos that spoke in my voice and sensibilities, and felt that there was an audience and industry that would support it, I would make and monetize videos as well. Does that mean I'm compromising my self-respect in some way?

I think the greater question should be, "Are we really looking at what we value as entertainment on a societal level"?

Say what you will about lowest common denominator entertainment, but a glance at, say, Polygon reveals that their juvenile Cooperatives videos does significantly better than their 'meaningful' video documentaries any day of the week.

People create what people continue to support through clicks. If there weren't enough fans to support for the PewDiePie, Hip Hop Gamers, or Angry Joes of the world, then the content wouldn't exist.

Self respect has little to do with that.

 

[jaxword]

Like I said, I don't create youtube videos. I'm far too old, and don't think that I have anything substantial to contribute.

How old is too old for YT?

 

[sixteen-bit]

So Twitch must be excited.

 

[D-Stubbs]

I can proudly say I've never clicked on a PewDiePie video. Dude just looks annoying. With that said there are some Let's Players out there I like to watch from time to time and it would suck if it got shut down. I understand why publishers dont like it though, hopefully a compromise can be made.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

That Pewdiepie guy did not come off well on VGX, playing screechy one-liners and all. But if he appeals to a market enough to make money, good on him.

Will be interesting to hear DSP on this. He is a clown but he is pretty open about this kind of thing so it will at least be somewhat worthwhile to hear him out. He is definitely not GAF's buddy so it should also provoke good debate.

Again, moving away from the big YT channels, this seems to hurt the ability of little partners to move up in the world. I hope that nobody gets their opportunity to succeed crushed by this change.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I don't like PewdiePie or DSP either, but I'm not bitter over them making tons of cash. I just don't watch them. I don't like a lot of the top rated celebs at the moment either, but that doesn't mean I dislike the entire acting/whatever venue and wish for it to go up into flames.

 

[Lost Fragment]

How old is too old for YT?

Old enough that you have responsibilities that take up the free time that may otherwise be used towards uploading stupid videos to the internet.

 

[Nymerio]

So Twitch must be excited.

I don't get this. I don't think youtube one day decided to get tough on this just because they can. Why would they? It's more likely that there was some lobbying by pubs/devs going on. And who's to say they will just let twitch do what they stopped youtube from doing?

And lol at the hate for some of the youtube channels. You may not like this pewdiepie guy (I don't either) but he found an audience that enjoys his videos, why shouldn't he make a profit from it? You can just not watch his videos if they offend you so much.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Looks like Nintendo's claiming videos again:

http://playeressence.com/gamexplain-says-nintendo-starts-making-claims-on-youtube-again/

I thought they had stopped this?

 

[wsippel]

Looks like Nintendo's claiming videos again:

http://playeressence.com/gamexplain-says-nintendo-starts-making-claims-on-youtube-again/

I thought they had stopped this?

Their stance is in the OP: Videos are cool, monetization is neither explicitly forbidden nor allowed. If you have ads in your video, they might or might not file a claim as they see fit. But I don't think they take the videos down, you simply won't get your ad revenue as far as I understand.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Their stance is in the OP: Videos are cool, monetization is neither explicitly forbidden nor allowed. If you have ads in your video, they might or might not file a claim as they see fit. But I don't think they take the videos down, you simply won't get your ad revenue as far as I understand.

That was their original response. Since then, it seemed to have died down and it suggested a reversal of policy, until today

 

[Madao]

Looks like Nintendo's claiming videos again:

http://playeressence.com/gamexplain-says-nintendo-starts-making-claims-on-youtube-again/

I thought they had stopped this?

one of my videos just got hit by this today.

the thing i just found out is that, if the video has lots of views, the offending audio can't be removed. was that like that always or did they just change that now?