THE:MILKMAN
Member
Are you still sticking with in the region of 20TF for 2020 then? I will state 12TF max, 24GB max, 700GB BW max, 4c8t or 8 core Zen 2 at 3.0GHz max. That for 2019 but 2020 would mostly be higher clocks.
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Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)
- Thread starter bitbydeath
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Are you still sticking with in the region of 20TF for 2020 then? I will state 12TF max, 24GB max, 700GB BW max, 4c8t or 8 core Zen 2 at 3.0GHz max. That for 2019 but 2020 would mostly be higher clocks.
24GB seems like overkill. I would be surprised if they go over 16GB.
Codes 208
Member
Thats kinda what im thing. Even just 8gb of free RAM should be future proof for the gen, but if they go 16 (say, 4 gigs saved for the OS and 12 for developers) that would be plenty.
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
Sure, which is why all figures are 'max'. Think of all of them as a 8GB mic drop.
thelastword
Banned
Yes, I'm still there....
20TF GPU
32-48GB RAM
Zen2= 8 cores 16 threads
Wireless AX
4TB HDD 1TB NANO
USB 3.1, 3.0
Support for 8k 60/30fps, 4k 120/60fps 1080p 240fps
Year 2020, will be a bit modified for 2019....
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Toe-Knee
Member
Leocarian
Banned
LOL 20tflops and 8K 60 fps. LOL.
If PS5 is 20TF it will be fp16
No one is going to be making games to take advantage of 20TF fp32 in the next year or so & it will be awhile before 20TF is the norm for PC gamers so who will be putting the extra time & money into take advantage of this 20TF console for games that can only be played on this console with a small user base?
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GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
Yeah some of these predictions are a wildly optimistic considering the TDP/power consumption range consoles are in.
thelastword
Banned
Ok guys fair enough, lay your'll specs down and make it known.....Guys who get it spot on takes the prize, guys who are closer to final specs get the most points, guys who are further off final spec can eat some crow.....(aka a large enough underestimation or overestimation).
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm afraid you will be sorely disappointed. Remember the console will likely be little more than 2 inches high maybe 3 inches, how would it be cooled? The KINGSMILL method!?
Those specs need a Noctua NH-D14. In SLI.
My guess of max specs are in my previous post.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
In 2020? I'd say ~10TF for the GPU.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You gotta remember that most people aren't buying those phones out-right. It's linked to a monthly bill. I'd buy a $500 Playstation every 2 years too if I could pay $20 a month on a 2 year lease plan.
thelastword
Banned
Hey, you got to put it out there sometimes.....Besides, I think PC GPU's will have some very interesting coolers later this year.....EKG is doing fine work, even AMD have improved their cooling solutions by and large, so the other companies like corsair, noctua, NZXT, uxcell are all competing, even EVGA, and they are going to offer some competitive solutions.....Besides, the way the nodes are shrinking I don't think GPU's will be as hot as they were in the past.
MilkyJoe
Member
And how much will this dream machine cost?
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Hey, you can put out there all you like but don't moan if Sony/AMD miss your spec by a long way!
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Leak
Member
We're not talking about the sweetspot for a dedicated PC CPU, we're talking about a low-consumption (and low temperatures) CPU into an APU.
Dear Wise Men... LOLOLOL.
thelastword
Banned
Well, it's my prediction nonetheless, we shall see when the dust settles. Remember November 2020 is a fair bit away....
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It is a while away but I believe even if PS5 is launched in Nov '20 it would basically be locked down tech wise this year if not already.
Leocarian
Banned
If you don't mind me asking... Where you coming up with such prediction? What gives you the confidence or logic to predict such numbers?
Ultra End PCs can't even run 4K60 on Max Settings yet on most games. Hell, I can't even run 4K60 Warhammer Vermintide II at a stable framerate. The game hovers around like 35s maybe lower.
And this is my machine from 2016
i7 6700K
32 GB DDR4 Ram
1080 GTX 8GB GDDR5X 9.2 tflops
The whole thing was bought on amazon/Newegg and I built it for around $2,000.
The Xbox One X came out a year later and is 6.2 Tflops and is 500 and is able to run Sea of Thieves at Native 4K (no checkerboard or dynamic resolution) with the same PC ultra settings on Mythical at 4K/30, only difference is I was missing 30 FPS on Xbox One X.
Still insane value. My GPU costed me 600 plus tax alone and now it costs even more.
I tried Sea of Thieves at 4K60, still a no go for 60 FPS with my build. Hovers in the 40s or so.
And your expecting a 8K 60/30 fps with 20 tflops in 2020 on a console for 400 to 500 bucks? Kk.
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demigod
Member
If it wasn't due to cryptocurrency, you could've built a PC for $500 that was on par or even beat the xbox one x in benchmarks. Nothing in Sea of Thieves is impressive to me that it can't do Native 4k. I do agree that his 20tflops expectation is way too high, but we shall see.
thelastword
Banned
I tend to believe things are changing.....PRO's GPU is based on RX 480 and that card landed in late June 2016....Pro then went on to launch with a downclocked RX 480 with 36 CU's and Vega features in November 2016. So based on that example (console to PC retail products is not a world away at launch anymore)... Besides, Navi has been in the pipeline for a minute and since AMD and Sony are developing this thing together the Sony engineers are privy to GPU technologies from AMD even after 2019 Navi.....It's the reason the PRO had some vega features in the first place, even though vega launched after PRO.....
In essence, things are getting closer between retail pc products and consoles.......Things were a bit different before because you had lots of custom GPU's and CPU's in consoles before, but things have changed.....
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Leocarian
Banned
Go to https://pcpartpicker.com/ please and build me a PC right now for $499 that's able to do 4K/30 FPS on High to Ultra Settings. Thanks. There is no way. Sea of Thieves has the most amazing water physics I've ever seen in any game in my life and that takes a lot of power. Don't forget to weather. Not gonna lie, the game is very cartoony and the art-style def helps it A LOT, but still it's an impressive game visually across the board.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3200767/gaming/xbox-one-x-pc-build.html All those PCs are above 500, barebones 4K30 is at $700+
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bitbydeath
Member
Sony doesn’t pay those prices, that’s for consumers.
demigod
Member
Do people not read anymore? I said you COULD HAVE, past tense. But due to cryptocurrency, you can't any longer.
Leocarian
Banned
I understand that, but I am talking to the guy that thinks that a consumer can build a PC equal to Xbox One X and still be able to do the same performance.
And yes I read your Cryptocurrency demigod - you still wouldn't be able to do it. I bought a GPU for $600 at a regular price when they came out and the prices weren't inflated like they are now.... so...
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
This is the unknown right now. We can't yet compare PS5 to PS4 Pro because Pro was a niche, mid-gen iterative model with much lower production volume and sales expectations.
PS5 will presumably be made in high volume like PS4 and might mean 2020 for launch. It depends how confident Sony/AMD/TSMC are with the tech whether 2019 is doable. I think it is possible right now.
thelastword
Banned
Yes, but a new gen is a greater investment than a mid-gen refresh, by a fair margin at that......In truth, you are investing in a piece of kit that will last 6-7 years, unlike the PRO, which should last for about the last 3 of those inclusive years ......Before, you would never hear of mid gen refreshes because everything was custom made and needed lots of R&D by Sony engineers, but now it's simplified. Sony just goes to AMD......AMD presents their GPU and CPU roadmap and Sony picks the product that's most viable to them based on their target price and launch, which will also happen to be as current and cutting edge hardware as they can make it. Of course from there, Sony engineers customize things based on thermals, cooling, form factor etc....The days of billions of dollars of R&D is just not happening anymore and I think console hardware is better able to gel with more current hardware as a result.....
DemonCleaner
Member
i pretty much considered the thermal and power limits when i made this statement. amd's newest laptop APU already runs with sub 25W on 4cores/8threads while having an allcore clock of 3,2Ghz and additionally having to fuel some GPU cores and logic. that APU is just on GLOFOs 14nm+ and not on 7nm. so i think 4Ghz on 8c/16t while consuming<=30w on the CPU is more then reasonable for 7nm ryzen.
to be honest i wouldn't be to sure, that we will see another APU on next gen. amd's GPU footprint is just much to large to put it on the same die as the CPU. even if one considers the higher pack density of 7nm that probably doesn't make economical sense. im betting on discrete CPU/GPUs this time around. or a weak-ass APU ...but then again sony can't really afford that two years after XB1X's release.
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GermanZepp
Member
Finally someone with some sense! 16GB is enough.
Edit: I would add. 10TF and maybe, maaaaaayyybe some zen custom thing
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Codes 208
Member
This...this is MisterXmedia levels of expectations.
pixelperfect
Member
should be interesting next few years for gamers. This generation has been the worst . Except Japanese games, so much is gone or made worse. Some good obviously, but more redundancy
bitbydeath
Member
I thought PS3 gen was the worst personally, too much focus on shooters and little else.
saobang3886
Neo Member
We're talk about PS5, not PS5 pro
)With this specs release on 2019, it much be >500$. So maybe 2020 is better time.
Leocarian
Banned
I 100% concur, boring gen overall. Last of Us and God of War 3 were the saving grace for PS3, other than that was a very lackluster console. However, the launch of 360 was awesome - Condemned: Criminal Origins, Kameo Elements of Power was underrated. Loved Gears of War and Viva Pinata 1 and 2 from Rare. Perfect Dark Zero was pretty fun too, another underrated game imo. The new Xbox Live was a magical moment for me for gaming in my life, some of the most amazing experiences.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
That looks like a 2000$ PC from 2020 lol
svbarnard
Banned
So the PS1 had what 4MB of ram? Then the PS2 had what 32MB? Then the PS3 had 512MB, then the PS4 had 8GB, but the PS5 shall only have 16GB only twice as much as the previous generation?
demigod
Member
Its a gaming console, not a PC. Care to explain why you need more than 16GB?
Codes 208
Member
If last gen was the gen of shooters, then this is the gen of remasters.
Why not? Most modern games barely require 4-6 gigs of RAM let along 8-10. Its mostly just used to allow a pc to read multiple threads at the same time. Anything higher than 16 is overkill for a gaming console. Or atleast for now. Id rather they put in 16gb of gddr5 and whatever money that could go into extra ram, be used for something that would end up bottlenecking that ram in the first place like the cpu. Or maybe just extra hardware memory like a 2tb harddrive
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bitbydeath
Member
And indie resurgence.
bitbydeath
Member
Greater load time reduction would be the biggest reason I think.
More RAM tends to increase loading times as storage speed that feeds it is not getting that much faster year over year (well, not sure when consoles will ship with big SSD’s, but it does not look like soon...).
Console OS’s are also a bit memory hungry, especially at the start of the generation, so it might be that they reserve 3-4 GB of RAM for the OS leaving 12-13 GB to games which is not a bad increase over he amount of game reserved RAM Xbox One and PS4 have. It could be that the Secondary CPU they have for security, background downloads, etc... takes a bigger RAM pool (2-4 GB of slower DDR3/4 for the bulk of the RAM the OS needs... plus whatever RAM the GPU needs to render the OS layers and related effects with)... I see the support CPU being expanded to a cheap quad core ARM design with enough grunt to handle most of the work the OS needs.
Leak
Member
In fact, the allcore clock is 2,2Ghz, having a max turbo clock (for a single core on load) of 3,8Ghz. And anyway, it only handles a few GPU cores, while console APUs are packed with much bigger GPUs. And anyway the increase of performance with this size improvements is around +50%, not +100% or even bigger as you say (25W 4/8 3,2 [which anyway was wrong] to 30W 8/16 4,0).
APUs aren't likely to stop being used in consoles for the next generation, they ease many things:
-Less space on-board.
-Previous point leads to easier-littler-cheaper cooling system.
-Better communication between CPU and GPU which also eases the use of shared RAM.
About the size, have you seen Intel's "APU"? THAT is HUGE and anyway means a bigger but still compact space easy and cheap to cool with bigger specs than AMD's. I remember that AMD showed something similar like weeks before Xbox One X specs announcement but wasn't called an APU. Anyway it was still a CPU+GPU combo which is still more likely than dividing CPU and GPU.
thelastword
Banned
Money post......Not just that, but the XBONEX has 12GB of RAM, but a console launching in November of 2020 is only going to make do with 16GB???..........So whilst you have only a few games doing 4k textures now and even in these cases you have dynamic textures, see-saw lods and cases of low rez variations in these very games. Next gen will have a higher installment of 4k textures across the board for it's games, but not just that, you will see less inconsistencies and variable quality textures in said games too........I'm also pretty sure that we will see textures hit 8k in select titles and some indie and AA games will hit 8k resolution, so lots of memory/bandwidth is important.....
Next gen will see higher quality PBR and materials work, much larger worlds, you need a good bit of memory to keep those assets in memory and minimize loadtimes and to prevent too much cordoning of levels etc.....Also, look at how things have evolved in the console gamespace, people want to multitask so much these days on consoles. I'm pretty sure having your game running simul with a few more apps is another thing we will see more of. I believe you can have a game and 1 app running on PRO simultaneously, but I'm pretty sure people will want more next gen.....Look at all the demands people make in firmware threads as a guide, they want better browsers, they want their skype up, they want better/faster broadcasting and media tools whilst they game.....I think this gen, if XBONEX is pushing 12GB for it's current games and OS offerings, you will need much more as things evolve for a new generation.....
As I said before, we will see lots of improvements to GPU's and CPU's this year in terms of advancement, that's up to Dec 2018, then we have a whole other year of advancements to come after that up to Dec of 2019, then after that, we have another 11 months of advancements to come to November of 2020 when the PS5 launches....If anything, I think my predictions are quite conservative.....relative to the advancements/roadmaps forecasted in the silicon space....
Let's be clear here, the mining craze won't have a hold on the industry too much longer, since there are dedicated cards coming for these guys.....Miners don't need 16Gb of Vram on their GPU's, neither do they need many of the gaming eccentric features...., so less cost to the manufacturers, It's a win win for Nvidia/AMD, miners will have to buy their mining cards and AMD/NV can just block mining features on their gaming GPU's through firmware.....So less overused cards will hit the market and prevent gamers from purchasing new etc....and of course, gamers can resume purchasing their product at MSRP.....So there's a lot that is going to improve.....There's is still the issue of memory and it's price, but that too will abate because there's going to be lots of choice on the market in a minute.....Who knows, the future 7nm Vega's may very well use GDDR6, but apart from GDDR6, the market is about to get lots of choices from HBM3, to DDR5, to LPDDR5, even 10nm DDR4 can be utilized to swap some apps in an OS......The point is, the tech industry is not at a stagnation point, there is lots that is going to improve and change in the next 2-3 years....
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sadaiyappan
Member
Hard drive size from ps3 - ps4 did not change much, so I guess ram is like hard drive now it won't change much from ps4 - ps5.
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