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[thelastword]

You really don't need more than 16GB of RAM for games. HBCC essentially quarters the VRAM required.

I can see an additional +4GB of slow and cheap RAM for OS and multitasking.

Maybe for this gen you dont need it, but for next gen you will....There was a time my 768MB Geforce 8800 ultra was the fiercest piece of kit out, but things evolve, worlds get bigger, textures larger and higher rez, higher quality and full rez alpha and the list goes on....If you're going to cater to a future where all games will be 4k and even some at 8k, you can't just put 16Gb of ram in there for next gen to last 7 years from 2020......The improvements to ram, gpu and cpu is going to keep on improving at a steady pace during that time period too, so you don't want to be behind the 8 ball on day one with your console on launch day...As it stands, XBONEX already has 12GB since 2017, for mostly sub 4k games with current gen assets. Things will improve significantly in terms of effects and rez, in essence games built with 4k in mind across the board.....You will need a hefty bit of ram to push next gen assets at that rez....

Bandwidth Cache is good, but standard memory speed will still be faster, though it helps more if you run out of regular ram though......I like the idea of HBCC tbh, I think it's great, but perhaps even better if there was a pool of NAND storage you could use as cache on consales.....or a resource pool of say 10nm DDR4/5......So far, there has not been too much use of it on Vega cards for gaming, perhaps it's better suited for productivity suites for now or perhaps AMD has to optimize for it a bit more at the driver level....In any case, having enough GDDR6, HBM3, DDR5 or whichever of these they use in the next gen consoles is more important and a more surefire and futureproofing stance as opposed to caching out a solution when your VRAM pool is maxed out in game......In any case I think most devs will work within their budget for the most part.......

Isn't AI mostly cpu dependent? In that case is understandable that AI hasn't been great this gen... current consoles cpu lack a bit in that department .

I think A.I. is more than CPU, programming great A.I is one of the hardest things to do.......F.E.A.R, is still the standard imo when it comes to FPS A.I or at least setting the benchmark to what came before it and after....and that game came out 13 years ago...Since then, CPU technology has advanced considerably. So whilst CPU is the car, the driver is essential.....and yes, time as well.....

I think right now we can do some AI routines and of course physics routines on GPU's...GPGPU was a good step there....So I think with the newer gen cards sporting tensor cores and better acceleration, that we may get more out of GPU's for A.I and physics......So with a good CPU and a GPU that can take some of that load, I think we may see some impressive work next gen......

 

[LittleAngryDog]

When you say NEXT-GEN are you meaning the upcoming God of War and Last of Us on PS4? Cause those are next-gen titles in those franchises. Or are you talking about a God of War on PS5 and TloU 3 on PS5?

I am assuming its gonna have better AI obviously, but how much smarter is a different story. Halo 1 had amazing AI still to this day and so did F.E.A.R and Condemned: Criminal Origins and those games are over a decade old.

I'm talking about the Next Gen consoles. Because TLOUS2 and God of War(4), will be currently gen games.

 

[Leocarian]

I'm talking about the Next Gen consoles. Because TLOUS2 and God of War(4), will be currently gen games.

Obviously, they'll be wiser/smarter but by how much is another story.

And yes @ thelastword AI is more CPU intensive than anything.

 

[mckmas8808]

Here we go again. Sony cannot rest on their laurels and allow MS to release a new generation ahead of them again like the 360. PS2 was still selling like hotcakes and look what happened.

There's no way MS will put out a new console in 2019 demigod. If Sony were to release their new console in 2020, best believe MS will be either doing the same thing or waiting to put there's out in 2021.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Obviously, they'll be wiser/smarter but by how much is another story.

And yes @ thelastword AI is more CPU intensive than anything.

I want to see what the Rockstar Games is able to do with something like GTA6. I hope they bring us back to the same GTA IV's physics. But now with better destructions. What do you think??

 

[Armorian]

With current memory prices I think split RAM idead is not a bad one, HBM2/GDDR6 for GPU and DDR4 for CPU. Otherwise I dont think we will get more than 16 or 20GB of memory.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

With current memory prices I think split RAM idead is not a bad one, HBM2/GDDR6 for GPU and DDR4 for CPU. Otherwise I dont think we will get more than 16 or 20GB of memory.

There is no chance they go split RAM. Devs would quit! idead is probably right.....!

Here is the announcement:

Sony: 10GB HBM2 & 10GB GDDR6

Devs:

 

[Bluntman]

Maybe for this gen you dont need it, but for next gen you will....There was a time my 768MB Geforce 8800 ultra was the fiercest piece of kit out, but things evolve, worlds get bigger, textures larger and higher rez, higher quality and full rez alpha and the list goes on....If you're going to cater to a future where all games will be 4k and even some at 8k, you can't just put 16Gb of ram in there for next gen to last 7 years from 2020......The improvements to ram, gpu and cpu is going to keep on improving at a steady pace during that time period too, so you don't want to be behind the 8 ball on day one with your console on launch day...As it stands, XBONEX already has 12GB since 2017, for mostly sub 4k games with current gen assets. Things will improve significantly in terms of effects and rez, in essence games built with 4k in mind across the board.....You will need a hefty bit of ram to push next gen assets at that rez....

Bandwidth Cache is good, but standard memory speed will still be faster, though it helps more if you run out of regular ram though......I like the idea of HBCC tbh, I think it's great, but perhaps even better if there was a pool of NAND storage you could use as cache on consales.....or a resource pool of say 10nm DDR4/5......So far, there has not been too much use of it on Vega cards for gaming, perhaps it's better suited for productivity suites for now or perhaps AMD has to optimize for it a bit more at the driver level....In any case, having enough GDDR6, HBM3, DDR5 or whichever of these they use in the next gen consoles is more important and a more surefire and futureproofing stance as opposed to caching out a solution when your VRAM pool is maxed out in game......In any case I think most devs will work within their budget for the most part.......


I think A.I. is more than CPU, programming great A.I is one of the hardest things to do.......F.E.A.R, is still the standard imo when it comes to FPS A.I or at least setting the benchmark to what came before it and after....and that game came out 13 years ago...Since then, CPU technology has advanced considerably. So whilst CPU is the car, the driver is essential.....and yes, time as well.....

I think right now we can do some AI routines and of course physics routines on GPU's...GPGPU was a good step there....So I think with the newer gen cards sporting tensor cores and better acceleration, that we may get more out of GPU's for A.I and physics......So with a good CPU and a GPU that can take some of that load, I think we may see some impressive work next gen......

Well the thing is that the current PC hardware, mainly Nvidia is misleading you. They brute force the VRAM for two reasons: because they don't have a better solution and because bigger number sells. People will buy the 8GB cards and will buy the next generation 16GB cards because it looks better on the box.

With HBCC you only need 2GB of VRAM for a game that would otherwise require 8GB. With 16GB of RAM you practicly have 64-128GB RAM using HBCC.

You can't possibly image how wasteful current engines are with RAM usage, especially under DX11 but even under DX12.

The efficiency is at (best case scenario) apporx 50% but in the real world somewhere between 25-50%. With HBCC the efficiency is 100%.

It's going to be hard to fight peoples thoughts about RAM because of the Nvidia dominance in the PC space for years. And it's still sad that people think about consoles as PCs .

 

[Armorian]

There is no chance they go split RAM. Devs would quit! idead is probably right.....!

Here is the announcement:

Sony: 10GB HBM2 & 10GB GDDR6

Devs:

They won't like it for sure, but with GB's of memory there is not that much difference compared to MB's on PS360 when every Byte was precious. And it will be HMB2 OR GDDR6, not both (DDR4 for main memory is most likely candidate). Otherwise, consoles will be expensive as fuck or with 16GB of RAM maximum

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

They won't like it for sure, but with GB's of memory there is not that much difference compared to MB's on PS360 when every Byte was precious. And it will be HMB2 OR GDDR6, not both (DDR4 for main memory is most likely candidate). Otherwise, consoles will be expensive as fuck or with 16GB of RAM maximum

I wouldn't worry too much about cost of RAM. Sony no doubt will get a very nice deal from Samsung again. While it would seem like it is too low to a lot, 16GB would at least help to achieve $399.

The options if they go GDDR6 ( good chance I think) are 256bit bus/8chips/16GB, 256bit bus/16 chips/32GB or 384bit bus/12 chips/24GB. 32GB is overkill and not happening but then a 384bit bus seems unlikely too....

Given One X is 384bit bus then that is more a possibility.

 

[demigod]

There's no way MS will put out a new console in 2019 demigod. If Sony were to release their new console in 2020, best believe MS will be either doing the same thing or waiting to put there's out in 2021.

He said 2021, so yeah MS "could" put out a new console in 2020.

 

[TheShadowLord]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think rocksteady is working on next gen systems, or at the ps5. They have a job listing that says they are looking for a senior network programmer for next-generation platforms.

 

[rokkerkory]

I think MS will always be around a year after each new Playstation. Phil said they never want to be the less powerful console ever again. Whether that's a good thing or not, time will tell.

 

[Armorian]

I wouldn't worry too much about cost of RAM. Sony no doubt will get a very nice deal from Samsung again. While it would seem like it is too low to a lot, 16GB would at least help to achieve $399.

The options if they go GDDR6 ( good chance I think) are 256bit bus/8chips/16GB, 256bit bus/16 chips/32GB or 384bit bus/12 chips/24GB. 32GB is overkill and not happening but then a 384bit bus seems unlikely too....

Given One X is 384bit bus then that is more a possibility.

Split RAM works fine on PC, I don't know why people are so afraid of it on consoles That said, I think 16-20 GB of unified memory are most likely.

I think MS will always be around a year after each new Playstation. Phil said they never want to be the less powerful console ever again. Whether that's a good thing or not, time will tell.

They can launch the same year and have better or worse machine, I think they won't let Sony be alone on the market for 12 months.

 

[Lort]

The xbox one x has restored the precident of xbox being the best machine and will muddy the waters for the ps5.

Once the Ps5 comes out the xbox s and xbox one x will be much cheaper and be promoted as full hd and uhd consoles. Ps5 will find it hard to define how it is in anyway next gen when ( like almost all new gens) the games look very similar to previous gen on launch. With the xbox one x there will be very little difference.

 

[Ar¢tos]

The xbox one x has restored the precident of xbox being the best machine and will muddy the waters for the ps5.

Once the Ps5 comes out the xbox s and xbox one x will be much cheaper and be promoted as full hd and uhd consoles. Ps5 will find it hard to define how it is in anyway next gen when ( like almost all new gens) the games look very similar to previous gen on launch. With the xbox one x there will be very little difference.

Europe and Asia might disagree... X1X wasn't even advertised in my country, but we get Ps4/ps4pro TV commercials occasionally.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Split RAM works fine on PC, I don't know why people are so afraid of it on consoles That said, I think 16-20 GB of unified memory are most likely.

Yeah but that is a bit different and consoles only just went to unified this gen so won't revert back now. It is simple both for devs and for Sony. Less headaches making games, simpler motherboard design/layout etc.

 

[Lort]

Europe and Asia might disagree... X1X wasn't even advertised in my country, but we get Ps4/ps4pro TV commercials occasionally.

Im not sure which part you disagree with.. not that theres anything wrong with that.

 

[Armorian]

The xbox one x has restored the precident of xbox being the best machine and will muddy the waters for the ps5.

Once the Ps5 comes out the xbox s and xbox one x will be much cheaper and be promoted as full hd and uhd consoles. Ps5 will find it hard to define how it is in anyway next gen when ( like almost all new gens) the games look very similar to previous gen on launch. With the xbox one x there will be very little difference.

XOX won't boost Xbox sales by much. Sony destroyed MS this gen and both consoles were released the same year, if MS want to fight PS5 seriously they need to launch the same year on all relevant territories (no tier 2 bullshit) with similar price and power. One year later there won't be a chance for Nextbox, Sony will just cut the price and kill MS console.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

PS5 will be a monster!

if this console reaches something beyond 13 Tflops all PC gamers will start to cry and cut themselves, because they will have to change their PCs!

Love you guys!

 

[demigod]

The xbox one x has restored the precident of xbox being the best machine and will muddy the waters for the ps5.

Once the Ps5 comes out the xbox s and xbox one x will be much cheaper and be promoted as full hd and uhd consoles. Ps5 will find it hard to define how it is in anyway next gen when ( like almost all new gens) the games look very similar to previous gen on launch. With the xbox one x there will be very little difference.

Keep dreamin dude. You think only MS can drop their price and Sony can’t? If anything, Sony can drop their ps4 same price and the pro cheaper than the one x. Lets see you say the same thing when ms releases their next gen in 2020.

 

[Codes 208]

I thought the PS4 looked nice visually, but to be quite honest the italic design of the system makes it hard to plug in cables in the back and its hard to see where the inputs are unless you completely turn it around. Meanwhile, the Xbox One designs are far superior in my opinion. They look modern and easy to plug stuff into, Sony not so much. I think Xbox One S is a very sexy looking console in the white and black and the Scorpio/Xbox One X is extremely impressive for how powerful that box is and how small it is.

I am hoping Sony goes with an ultra-modern design but without any weird edges or silly italics. I also want them to give you more variety of colors to choose from. I am disappointed there is no white Xbox One X :/

I definitely agree that the design choice hurts the actual ease of being able to plug it into the wall and tv, as for the bolded i concur. The designs are great...if we are talking about the S and X. The og XBO is a hideous brick that thinks its a VCR player.

I actually like the speaker and hope it stays too, it can be used for way more cases than a mic and it was very very capable for such a tiny speaker (surprisingly good quality sound).

I finally bought myself a new ps4 last night and when i booted up xenoverse 2, i legitimately forgot about the speaker. Trunks and Old Kai talking through my controller at maximum volume out of nowhere scared the shit outta me. Practically threw my controller, man it was hilarious.

 

[Lort]

Wow listen to the console war boys crow, i never said anything about sales figures only that due to mid gen refresh and cheap relevant base consoles an underpowered (ie soon) ps5 wont look much different in games and wont be able to show much different to whats out now. As i said this happens every console release. The xbox one x is more powerful than the pro just like the 360 was ( in 99% of games) more powerful than the ps3 and the original xbox was more powerful than the ps2. Being a premium console owner this matters to me i prefer my 4k native and i cbf with pc tweaking graphics settings. I love my devices silent even the fan on my surface 3 pro bugs me .. so over pc gaming but your welcome to buy a pc.

Anyway i dont know why your all quoting me as i said nothing about sales figures.. only that xbox has regained the performance title for consoles and wont be giving it back. Phil spencer even said as much.. hed wait to ensure that..

 

[Armorian]

Performance depends on:

-components avaible at the time
-price of the console

Xbox one X is stronger than Pro thanks to that. I think both consoles will release in the same year and with similar price so performance will be similar too, unless MS/Sony price it higher than competion or sell at loss.

If MS release year after PS5 then their console is DOA IMO. Both machines will be 99% 4K native so differences won't be as drastic as with PS4-X1 and Pro-XOX.

 

[GoldenEye98]

The xbox one x has restored the precident of xbox being the best machine and will muddy the waters for the ps5.

Once the Ps5 comes out the xbox s and xbox one x will be much cheaper and be promoted as full hd and uhd consoles. Ps5 will find it hard to define how it is in anyway next gen when ( like almost all new gens) the games look very similar to previous gen on launch. With the xbox one x there will be very little difference.

This is similar to my thinking as well. These mid-gen consoles(especially Xbox One X) are going to dampen some of the impact of the actual next gen consoles. The leap will not be as great as it otherwise would have been if we were just going from the base consoles.

 

[demigod]

Wow listen to the console war boys crow, i never said anything about sales figures only that due to mid gen refresh and cheap relevant base consoles an underpowered (ie soon) ps5 wont look much different in games and wont be able to show much different to whats out now. As i said this happens every console release. The xbox one x is more powerful than the pro just like the 360 was ( in 99% of games) more powerful than the ps3 and the original xbox was more powerful than the ps2. Being a premium console owner this matters to me i prefer my 4k native and i cbf with pc tweaking graphics settings. I love my devices silent even the fan on my surface 3 pro bugs me .. so over pc gaming but your welcome to buy a pc.

Anyway i dont know why your all quoting me as i said nothing about sales figures.. only that xbox has regained the performance title for consoles and wont be giving it back. Phil spencer even said as much.. hed wait to ensure that..

You came here starting your console war bs and now you’re trying to call me out? Killzone impressed me, it looked next gen. Are you saying Ryse didn’t impress you at all? That sucks for you then.

You need to stop spouting with that native 4k crap. The one x is not a true 4k console. All(or most) of the 3rd party games are dynamic 4k. The only thing native 4k is PC. This is FACT.

 

[Lort]

You came here starting your console war bs and now you’re trying to call me out? Killzone impressed me, it looked next gen. Are you saying Ryse didn’t impress you at all? That sucks for you then.

You need to stop spouting with that native 4k crap. The one x is not a true 4k console. All(or most) of the 3rd party games are dynamic 4k. The only thing native 4k is PC. This is FACT.

Ryse looked great but it was the exception.. potentially topped by the oder 1886 in 2015. Most other games (even though they looked good) were mainly res upgrades from the previous versions ( titanfall, tomb raider etc.). The upcoming games for current gen have some pretty great graphics ( god of war, metro etc). As games are more limited by art style than hardware .. (4k res is enough 8 -12 gigs ram enough). .. its likely next gen games will need to be more involved (ie star citizen). Which wont blow people away by graphics alone. In what way do you see a ps5 launch title blowing away graphics wise the upcoming games for pro consoles?

( the pc isnt a true 4k machine .. i think u mean a 1080ti is a true 4k graphics card but whatever lets not get off track i was only pointing out graphics means something to me.. personal preference)

 

[photogaz]

My concern for next gen is still going to be the focus on native 4k. Native 4k is great, but I would much rather have a boost in graphics and 60fps using checkerboarding. By all means if the console can handle it great, but lets not get too hasty.

 

[Swizzle]

This is similar to my thinking as well. These mid-gen consoles(especially Xbox One X) are going to dampen some of the impact of the actual next gen consoles. The leap will not be as great as it otherwise would have been if we were just going from the base consoles.

Partially, but people that are unable to make Xbox One X or PS4 Pro exclusives (external but internal policies wise too... I doubt many studios have a mandate to spend any sort of extra effort on pushing the HW of these mid generation consoles more than brute forcing relatively easy improvements in) will have incentives to make games optimised for the new consoles generation.

 

[Leocarian]

Don't mind me please. Just gonna stick around and read the banter. It's hilarious to sit and watch people argue when we don't even have any facts lol.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Partially, but people that are unable to make Xbox One X or PS4 Pro exclusives (external but internal policies wise too... I doubt many studios have a mandate to spend any sort of extra effort on pushing the HW of these mid generation consoles more than brute forcing relatively easy improvements in) will have incentives to make games optimised for the new consoles generation.

If Sony bring us an PS5 with 12.6Tflops with the same performance of the GPU RX VEGA 64, the games will reach something near to the 4k 60fps. So the 30fps games will have graphics a little bit better than the currently gen. But nothing away better. The positive way is that we will se more games running in 4k60fps Max Settings as beautiful as currently gen games. This is not a big jump between generations, but istill better than checkerboarding and fake 4K. But i hope that SONY will be smart and realase the console from November 2020 when the mainstream cheap GPU with more power than a RX VEGA 64 will appear on the market.

 

[Dargor]

The xbox one x has restored the precident of xbox being the best machine and will muddy the waters for the ps5.

Once the Ps5 comes out the xbox s and xbox one x will be much cheaper and be promoted as full hd and uhd consoles. Ps5 will find it hard to define how it is in anyway next gen when ( like almost all new gens) the games look very similar to previous gen on launch. With the xbox one x there will be very little difference.

I dont understand this post. What will be hard for Sony with the ps5? They'll have an easier time than they had with the PS4, where their only job was making sure none of the PS3 blunders carried over.

With the PS5 they'll just need to keep the ball rolling.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

I dont understand this post. What will be hard for Sony with the ps5? They'll have an easier time than they had with the PS4, where their only job was making sure none of the PS3 blunders carried over.

With the PS5 they'll just need to keep the ball rolling.

Will the graphic jump between PS4 to PS5 be equivalent to the generational leap from PS3 to PS4? I just know about the CPU. I know that the CPUs will bring us amazing physics and etc. But Anyaway. The graphic leap will be equivalent to PS3 ~ PS4 or EVEN LESS?

 

[Swizzle]

If Sony bring us an PS5 with 12.6Tflops with the same performance of the GPU RX VEGA 64, the games will reach something near to the 4k 60fps. So the 30fps games will have graphics a little bit better than the currently gen. But nothing away better. The positive way is that we will se more games running in 4k60fps Max Settings as beautiful as currently gen games. This is not a big jump between generations, but istill better than checkerboarding and fake 4K. But i hope that SONY will be smart and realase the console from November 2020 when the mainstream cheap GPU with more power than a RX VEGA 64 will appear on the market.

We do not know the actual power of the GPU solution chosen and how that will interact with CPU or any other system component (RAM, other system coprocessors... TensorFlow coprocessor maybe too?)... consoles are systems where a single component can be raised by great balance or held back by bottlenecks.

I see Ryzen 2 based CPU (the Low Power optimised version) and a GPU with features coming from the next architecture post VEGA and maybe some features do-developed/financed by Sony (that will end up being part of future AMD GPU lines) in addition to a pure performance increase, and a large pool of ultra fast RAM to keep everything well fed... When you compare it to the original Xbox One and PS4 there is about 10x of effective GPU performance increase and a much more efficient general purpose processor paired with them developers can count on (difference between a new generation and mid generation incremental upgrades).
I think you will see the changes especially from first party developers relatively early on.

 

[Dargor]

Will the jump in visuals between PS4 to PS5 better than the generational leap from PS3 to PS4? I just know about the CPU. I know that the CPUs will bring us amazing physics and etc. But Anyaway. The graphic leap will equivalent to PS3 ~ PS4 or EVEN LESS?

Who knows? But that doesnt change the idea that this time around, sony will have an easier time to sell their new console since now, they'll only need to make a console that has a decent performance, a decent price (like the ps4) and ride the good will won this generation.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

We do not know the actual power of the GPU solution chosen and how that will interact with CPU or any other system component (RAM, other system coprocessors... TensorFlow coprocessor maybe too?)... consoles are systems where a single component can be raised by great balance or held back by bottlenecks.

I see Ryzen 2 based CPU (the Low Power optimised version) and a GPU with features coming from the next architecture post VEGA and maybe some features do-developed/financed by Sony (that will end up being part of future AMD GPU lines) in addition to a pure performance increase, and a large pool of ultra fast RAM to keep everything well fed... When you compare it to the original Xbox One and PS4 there is about 10x of effective GPU performance increase and a much more efficient general purpose processor paired with them developers can count on (difference between a new generation and mid generation incremental upgrades).
I think you will see the changes especially from first party developers relatively early on.

You practically answered my question to the user '' Dargor ''! I am very satisfied. Thank you.

Let's hope this is what you said is true! I want to see a strong console making GORGEOUS games!

 

[Ar¢tos]

Only informed gamers care about the flop difference between ps4pro/x1x and ps5.
All the rest of the world sees is brand/price and a 5 where a 4 was before. In terms of sales all Sony has to do is not screw up they did with the ps3 and make sure there are no shortages at launch. Ps4 was hard to find initially, it was always sold out.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Who knows? But that doesnt change the idea that this time around, sony will have an easier time to sell their new console since now, they'll only need to make a console that has a decent performance, a decent price (like the ps4) and ride the good will won this generation.

This is what a spanish friend said about these complex comparisons between PC performance and Consoles performance. And why we shouldn't compare the both. The translation is not so good but anyaway.

''It's not like that, because first you have to see the programming, the engine and the investment in technologies, an example compares the days gone with the Witcher 3 or gta vo even a watchdogs 2 are two generations of difference games and it has to do with the games that are designed for it is that after 6 years it begins to squeeze the potential of the generation, another example is to compare the order with God of war but there is no point of comparison, most of the games were developed with a minor vision in relation to the maximum that you can get an example just cause 3 in cpu you can use almost 100% cpu but gpu just use 45% if we compare it with the witcher 3 that uses a 100% cpu and the same gpu 75% and the difference is very big in graphics true, now on the PC side the games are not optimized in cpu or gpu, even more in the Vega architecture, since the 1080ti is better in frame rate vs a RX 64, it is not the same 13 tflops in pc that if they use the consoles underutilized, because this happens because generic codes and instructions are used and no apis and console codes are used, if console optimization is not yet used or optimized, games like the Pubg or the Dynasty Warriors are Super badly optimized with some PS3 graphics imagine what happens in PC there the FFXV for PC, you'll see how the jump will be brutal, now not all titles in the next gene will be 60 fps, 4k if almost all, such Once the most ambitious are sub 4k or a 4k checkboard much improved, but the 60 fps will be 70% + -, but the most ambitious choose 30 fps for better graphics or devote the cpu for simulation all depend on the number of cores and of deep learning technology''

 

[Dargor]

This is what a spanish friend said about these complex comparisons between PC performance and Consoles performance. And why we shouldn't compare the both. The translation is not so good but anyaway.

''It's not like that, because first you have to see the programming, the engine and the investment in technologies, an example compares the days gone with the Witcher 3 or gta vo even a watchdogs 2 are two generations of difference games and it has to do with the games that are designed for it is that after 6 years it begins to squeeze the potential of the generation, another example is to compare the order with God of war but there is no point of comparison, most of the games were developed with a minor vision in relation to the maximum that you can get an example just cause 3 in cpu you can use almost 100% cpu but gpu just use 45% if we compare it with the witcher 3 that uses a 100% cpu and the same gpu 75% and the difference is very big in graphics true, now on the PC side the games are not optimized in cpu or gpu, even more in the Vega architecture, since the 1080ti is better in frame rate vs a RX 64, it is not the same 13 tflops in pc that if they use the consoles underutilized, because this happens because generic codes and instructions are used and no apis and console codes are used, if console optimization is not yet used or optimized, games like the Pubg or the Dynasty Warriors are Super badly optimized with some PS3 graphics imagine what happens in PC there the FFXV for PC, you'll see how the jump will be brutal, now not all titles in the next gene will be 60 fps, 4k if almost all, such Once the most ambitious are sub 4k or a 4k checkboard much improved, but the 60 fps will be 70% + -, but the most ambitious choose 30 fps for better graphics or devote the cpu for simulation all depend on the number of cores and of deep learning technology''

I'm sorry, not trying to diss you or anything, but did you quote the wrong person? I never made any comparison between pc and consoles.

 

[Bluntman]

Split RAM works fine on PC, I don't know why people are so afraid of it on consoles That said, I think 16-20 GB of unified memory are most likely.



They can launch the same year and have better or worse machine, I think they won't let Sony be alone on the market for 12 months.

Because split RAM only has disadvantages and unifiesld RAM only has advantages?

You don't need to keep the same data in two RAM pools, CPU and GPU have instant access to eachothers information, simpler motherboard design, simpler for developers and in the end pprobably cheaper as well.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Why even waste resources on native 4k if 95% of gamers won't be able to tell the difference between good CB and real 4k?
I expect most games next gen to be CB 4k to free resources for better AA, AF, AO, etc.

 

[billythemule]

Because split RAM only has disadvantages and unifiesld RAM only has advantages?

Split RAM dedicates bandwidth seperately to the GPU and the CPU. You can pick RAM that you know works well with the GPU and then do the same for the CPU. The PS4 struggles badly with anisotropic filtering because of its RAM configuration. The GPU and the CPU have to share the same bandwitdh and GDDR5 isn't really the best for CPUs, that usually prefer low latency over high bandwidth. So there are pros and cons to having a unified RAM in a console.

 

[thelastword]

Split RAM dedicates bandwidth seperately to the GPU and the CPU. You can pick RAM that you know works well with the GPU and then do the same for the CPU. The PS4 struggles badly with anisotropic filtering because of its RAM configuration. The GPU and the CPU have to share the same bandwitdh and GDDR5 isn't really the best for CPUs, that usually prefer low latency over high bandwidth. So there are pros and cons to having a unified RAM in a console.

Great point, though I believe PS4 early AF troubles was more an API issue than bandwidth......But the general point in spelling out the pro's and cons of unified ram vs divided pool is a solid one......I imagine also that next gen will have very fast and high bandwidth memory for the console's 4k needs, so they should be fine.....If there's one guy who takes bottlenecks into account it's cerny, it's the reason why PS4 had the 20 Gb/s sub bus, and on PS4 PRO, there was DCC to save bandwidth, the discard accelerator which eliminates triangles not needed in the pipeline which saves lots of bandwidth when using MSAA, then there's more wavefronts on the CU's on PRO which means more computation per CU.......So I think they can go with a divided pool or unified, but with unified I think they may have ideas to eliminate much of CPU/GPU bottleneck that perhaps we saw this gen...

In general, this is what I'm looking forward to most, not just the specs, but the customization work that the engineers will do for the console hardware.....I really don't think we need an APU this time tbh, I think Zen CPU's as low powered enough as it is, where even an APU is at a TDP of 46-65W and the mobile parts are at 15-25 TDP, they can put a really powerful CPU at low thermals when Zen hits 7nm. Same with the 7nm GPU, The GPU will require more power of course, but I want them to go as high power with the GPU as they can......so a 35w TDP CPU and a GPU at 150w TDP, should round out 185w for the two parts with some good cooling....Round out 200w TDP for miscellaneous included, I think that's fair for a console as it may not even need to hit all that power ever....

 

[LittleAngryDog]

I'm sorry, not trying to diss you or anything, but did you quote the wrong person? I never made any comparison between pc and consoles.

That was rhetorical comment. If you can not interpret what you read.

 

[12Dannu123]

Keep dreamin dude. You think only MS can drop their price and Sony can’t? If anything, Sony can drop their ps4 same price and the pro cheaper than the one x. Lets see you say the same thing when ms releases their next gen in 2020.

Well that all depends if Sony is wanting to keep generations or not. Microsoft isn't following hardline generations anymore. By the time the next Xbox releases XB1X will likely be around $250 - $300. OG XB and XB1S will likely be discontinued by then.

 

[Armorian]

Well that all depends if Sony is wanting to keep generations or not. Microsoft isn't following hardline generations anymore. By the time the next Xbox releases XB1X will likely be around $250 - $300. OG XB and XB1S will likely be discontinued by then.

If they put new CPU in Xbox 3 (?) it will be a new generation, games won't be able to run on X1X without major cuts in core aspects.

 

[PuppetMaster]

A Handheld that slots into a VR headset. I see this in Sony's future.

 

[Lort]

If they put new CPU in Xbox 3 (?) it will be a new generation, games won't be able to run on X1X without major cuts in core aspects.

Destiny did it, GTA did it, Titanfall, tomb raider etc theres like 20+ remasters on ps4. The pc does this all the time there are no generations anymore.

 

[bitbydeath]

Destiny did it, GTA did it, Titanfall, tomb raider etc theres like 20+ remasters on ps4. The pc does this all the time there are no generations anymore.

That’s with software going from a weaker to a stronger console, it won’t work the other way around unless games get intentionally held back by the X.

 

[Lort]

That’s with software going from a weaker to a stronger console, it won’t work the other way around unless games get intentionally held back by the X.

Every game on pc and console has to deal with cpu limitations.. and thats almost every triple a title. GTA is still one of the most demanding games on current gen console and shipped on previous gen. This “held back” by previous gen mantra needs some actual evidence more than conjecture that seems to not align with reality. Performance of a game, its AI, and dynamic aspects are related to how good the programmers are much more than the actual cpu. See pubg original preview ( or any other indie preview game) compared to GTA.

Here is how to code and increase performance by orders of magnitude .. this is how complex console games out perform simple pc games.. ie gta > pubg.