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[Purkake4]

Some perspective from the other world:

A three-time Olympic silver medallist says athletes should be able to take banned substances as "normal" people do.

Russian former 400m runner Tatyana Firova, who recently failed a drug test, suggested sportsmen and women wouldn't be able to "achieve high results" without performance-enhancing substances.

Her country has allowed a small group of journalists, including a team from Sky News, unprecedented access to its athletes, in the hope of silencing allegations of doping currently plaguing sport in the nation.

Athletics' governing body will decide on 17 June whether Russian track and field athletes can compete at this year's Olympics in Rio de Janeiro.

Speaking at the Meteor Stadium near Moscow, Firova, who won silver in the 4x400m relay at the 2004, 2008 and 2012 Summer Olympics, said doping is not just about what the athletes want to do.

She told Sky News the 'bureaucrats' must share responsibility, saying: "Of course the system is also responsible for (doping).

"We sportsmen are performers, we follow the rules that are given to us by the system.

"Samples that she gave at the 2008 Beijing Games were recently re-tested and came up positive.

When we asked Firova whether she had doped as an athlete, the runner did not wish to comment.

But what she did do was offer a stark and unsentimental opinion on performance-enhancing drugs.

"A normal person can take banned substances if they want to," she told me.

"So why can't athletes take them as well. How else can we achieve high results?"

Her drugs test - and positive samples produced by 54 other Olympic athletes - dated from the 2008 and 2012 Olympics.

Anti-doping officials started retesting urine samples after a man called Grigory Rodchenkov, who used to run the Russian anti-doping laboratory, turned whistle-blower earlier this year.

We caught a glimpse of a new era in Russian track and field at the Meteor Stadium.

There were 250 athletes competing in 30 different events and every single athlete was clean - or at least that is what we were told by some of the competitors.[...]

 

[Mael]

Might as well turn that into Formula 1 where the human element is just a part of the performance or something.
Heck might as well give planes to the people running the 100m because clearly it would help them go faster.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

There is some wiggliness when it comes to performance enhancing drugs. Creatine is a proven performance enhancer but it is not banned. All science on 7-Keto-DHEA points to it being useless and is banned in most international competition.

 

[massoluk]

Might as well turn that into Formula 1 where the human element is just a part of the performance or something.
Heck might as well give planes to the people running the 100m because clearly it would help them go faster.

Enhanced Human Olympics with cybernetic arms and legs. Let's do it.

 

[Mael]

Enhanced Human Olympics with cybernetic arms and legs. Let's do it.

They'll still lose to someone in a dragster, sad.

 

[HylianTom]

Requisite SNL sketch: The All-Drug Olympics
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/update-all-drug-olympics/n9691

(Phil Hartman!)

 

[PillarEN]

Just like my Russian university mates "why can't we cheat on tests?"

 

[OldRoutes]

The problem is that athletes won't stop using drugs, and that testing is not fool proof.

I can understand that's it's frustrating when you know someone is using drugs and never got caught.

 

[fester]

The problem is that athletes won't stop using drugs, and that testing is not fool proof.

I can understand that's it's frustrating when you know someone is using drugs and never got caught.

It becomes a classic case of conflict escalation, where athletes are compelled to increase the amount and types of drugs just to stay competitive. When sport in general is meant to promote good health, there's no room for anything that destroys it.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Lets have super Olympics PEDs and Aguments. Make for more interesting tv.

 

[Brazil]

Lets have super Olympics PEDs and Aguments. Make for more interesting tv.

Is F1 interesting TV?

 

[OldRoutes]

It becomes a classic case of conflict escalation, where athletes are compelled to increase the amount and types of drugs just to stay competitive. When sport in general is meant to promote good health, there's no room for anything that destroys it.

Isn't it arguable that those performance enhancing drugs actually hurt the athletes? I'm not too knowledgeable on this aspect, but that's the conclusion I had after watching Bigger Stronger Faster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster*)

 

[barik]

I wouldn't be against it, actually.

Maybe separate every sport into two leagues: the main one, where we see what the human body is capable of without using drugs. Those are the people we're supposed to look up to as role models and shit.

And then another separate league where any and all drugs are allowed, and we accept that the people in that league are just there to show the world what their body can withstand before it either shows us something incredible, or it stops working altogether.

But I can't be the first person to suggest this, surely.

 

[Sky Chief]

A normal person can take banned substances?

 

[fester]

Isn't it arguable that those performance enhancing drugs actually hurt the athletes? I'm not too knowledgeable on this aspect, but that's the conclusion I had after watching Bigger Stronger Faster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster*)

I don't think it's really the right question to be asking. You might be able to test some of the more popular PEDs and conclude they are mostly safe, but this is an ever evolving product and when a championship or world record is on the line, even the most principled athletes might be tempted to try something "cutting edge" to gain the advantage.

It's truly a war with never-ending escalation and nothing but losers on all sides.

 

[ArjanN]

I wouldn't be against it, actually.

Maybe separate every sport into two leagues: the main one, where we see what the human body is capable of without using drugs. Those are the people we're supposed to look up to as role models and shit.

And then another separate league where any and all drugs are allowed, and we accept that the people in that league are just there to show the world what their body can withstand before it either shows us something incredible, or it stops working altogether.

But I can't be the first person to suggest this, surely.

Sure, why not start having gladiator fights to the death again also, while we're at it?

A normal person can take banned substances?

Woohoo, cocaine for everyone!

 

[antonz]

What needs to change is allowing countries to self regulate themselves. The entire scandal right now is over the fact Russia was cooking the books so to speak and reporting their athletes as clean while they covered up all the positive tests.

Its the same as the clearly underage Gymnasts from the Bejing games. Girl herself said she was underage and China quickly covered it up and the IOCs excuse was we can only base things off Government provided documents. So as long as China was willing to cheat there was no way to hold accountability.

 

[FreedomFighter]

Enhanced Human Olympics with cybernetic arms and legs. Let's do it.

At the very least, I'd settle for performance enhancing drugs in MLB again. Those were the days man.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

why can't I steal? I won't be able to achieve high wealth if i dont

 

[cdyhybrid]

Because the whole point of athletic competition is to compete on equal ground. The other side of that coin is that the leagues provide PEDs to EVERYONE, which carries significant health ramifications, so the easy path is to just ban them.

 

[MIMIC]

Clown

 

[Pedrito]

"So why can't athletes take them as well. How else can we achieve high results?"

By training hard and being genetically gifted?
And if you can't achieve high results, go find a job like everyone else.

 

[univariate]

The athlete in question is a woman

Just noticed that, thanks. I need to stop responding immediately reading the thread title.

 

[Sky Chief]

he should start his own olympic event then.

The athlete in question is a woman

 

[old manatee]

The whole thing is starting to feel like a hypocritical witch hunt to me because it is pretty clear now that there are decades worth of celebrated athletes that were basically all on PEDs and half the time their doctors and coaches were providing them. The way these people are being publicly shamed is getting ridiculous. Like Lance Armstrong couldn't ride a bike if he wasn't doping.

 

[LucidMomentum]

The whole thing is starting to feel like a hypocritical witch hunt to me because it is pretty clear now that there are decades worth of celebrated athletes that were basically all on PEDs and half the time their doctors and coaches were providing them. The way these people are being publicly shamed is getting ridiculous. Like Lance Armstrong couldn't ride a bike if he wasn't doping.

The main difference is who got caught, and for what drug happened to be on the list or wasn't on the list one year but was the next.

It seems the main difference is if you have enough money or connections to skillfully stay under the radar.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

It becomes a classic case of conflict escalation, where athletes are compelled to increase the amount and types of drugs just to stay competitive. When sport in general is meant to promote good health, there's no room for anything that destroys it.

Sports today are about winning and making money. nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jooey]

Sports today are about winning and making money. nothing more, nothing less.

but the children...!

 

[Onemic]

It's true simply because everyone is already doing it.

 

[barik]

Sure, why not start having gladiator fights to the death again also, while we're at it?

If that's what people would choose to do with their lives/bodies, and they were aware of the consequences, then maybe?

My point was that if it's all a pointless shitshow full of cheaters and liars anyway, why not give those scumbags what they want? Just let them pump a bunch of chemical garbage into their bloated bodies and maybe they can shave a few seconds off a record in some extremely specific feat of athleticism. If that's how they want to spend their life, who am I to intervene?

 

[Acerac]

I wouldn't be against it, actually.

Maybe separate every sport into two leagues: the main one, where we see what the human body is capable of without using drugs. Those are the people we're supposed to look up to as role models and shit.

And then another separate league where any and all drugs are allowed, and we accept that the people in that league are just there to show the world what their body can withstand before it either shows us something incredible, or it stops working altogether.

But I can't be the first person to suggest this, surely.

Why would anyone watch the first league? It would be boring in comparison.

 

[WaterAstro]

Enhanced Human Olympics with cybernetic arms and legs. Let's do it.

I think that's the paralympics in the future.

 

[pizzaparty]

PEDs shouldn't be banned in professional sports. It's dumb.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

If done responsibly and under doctor's care PEDs can be done healthily and can aid in athletic endeavors. I'm all for that.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I kind of agree with her. Why can't they? If the same drugs are made available to everyone its still an even playing field. Granted there are health concerns but these are adults who are making the decisions for themselves.

If you say "oh the poorer athletes are at a disadvantage", well they already are. Athletes in rich countries train in superior facilities, with more expensive trainers, better qualified doctors, etc.

 

[barik]

Why would anyone watch the first league? It would be boring in comparison.

That's just the family friendly one, there to inspire kids and show people what real athletes are capable of. Then the other league (after hours!) is just a total fucking freakshow. Biceps exploding every night, everyone openly doing drugs, needles everywhere. Grimy shit.

 

[shira]

PEDs shouldn't be banned in professional sports. It's dumb.

Then you would have high school and middle school athletes on drugs. It's a bad cycle to start. A lot of top tier young athletes already do this, but it would become prerequisite.

Of course it's great for the medal winners or first round draft pick, but for every medal winner you have like 10,000 to 100,000 failures.

 

[blackflag]

I agree with her. Let's stop pretending that most professional and olympic level athletes aren't.

 

[Imbarkus]

Might as well turn that into Formula 1 where the human element is just a part of the performance or something.
Heck might as well give planes to the people running the 100m because clearly it would help them go faster.

You are not ready for the Singularity. Augments will fundamentally change how we view athetics.

See, for me, I support whatever gets us to Tournament Cyberball IRL faster. Let the killbots take the concussions.

 

[sans_pants]

I'm a firm believe that athletes should be able to juice.


The trickle down knowledge we'd have if say the nfl was openly researching and administering drugs to athletes would be a boon to a lot of people

 

[Acerac]

That's just the family friendly one, there to inspire kids and show people what real athletes are capable of. Then the other league (after hours!) is just a total fucking freakshow. Biceps exploding every night, everyone openly doing drugs, needles everywhere. Grimy shit.

Which one is going to be on ESPN's top 10 plays of the day? I assume the one where all the players are supermutants. That is the one families will want to see.

 

[sans_pants]

Then you would have high school and middle school athletes on drugs. It's a bad cycle to start. A lot of top tier young athletes already do this, but it would become prerequisite.

Of course it's great for the medal winners or first round draft pick, but for every medal winner you have like 10,000 to 100,000 failures.

but its already happening. and the real problem is that if you don't know wtf you are doing and get this stuff from the black market you are playing a dangerous game.


remember that high school kid that killed himself after a cycle and ruined the party for everyone? with proper ptc he may not have faced such drastic and confusing emotional swings

 

[Wafflecakes]

Eh I don't support it at all.

While I know it is a war that will never be won, I don't want sports to become a drug race for the fanciest and newest way to kill yourself chemically by 40.

 

[brawly]

Because it should be about who's the best athlete, not who takes the best drugs.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Because it should be about who's the best athlete, not who takes the best drugs.

Well that hasn't been the case in about 40-50 years, so why should we keep pretending?

 

[Wafflecakes]

Because it should be about who's the best athlete, not who takes the best drugs.

Who exactly in Russia cares enough about their athletes that they wouldn't be willing to cut 30 years off their lifespan to win.

It would never be sustainable.

 

[sans_pants]

Who exactly in Russia cares enough about their athletes that they wouldn't be willing to cut 30 years off their lifespan to win.

It would never be sustainable.

vince mcmahon is 70

 

[bobbytkc]

Well that hasn't been the case in about 40-50 years, so why should we keep pretending?

Because those are the rules of the game. You can't move your pieces any way you like just because you want to win in chess. If you don't like it, create another event with different rules.

 

[David H Wong]

but its already happening. and the real problem is that if you don't know wtf you are doing and get this stuff from the black market you are playing a dangerous game.


remember that high school kid that killed himself after a cycle and ruined the party for everyone? with proper ptc he may not have faced such drastic and confusing emotional swings

But then you have athletes simply trying to circumvent THOSE limits. "The doc says you're fine if you take ____ amount, but I heard you can get twice as big doubling that!"

Also: The moment it's allowed, it's required. It'll be impossible to compete without them. So from high school on it will be, you take the drugs, or say goodbye to any chance at a scholarship or, you know, actually making the team. You just don't have a chance against someone who's juicing - they're going to be faster, stronger, and get over injuries quicker.

 

[sans_pants]

But then you have athletes simply trying to circumvent THOSE limits. "The doc says you're fine if you take ____ amount, but I heard you can get twice as big doubling that!"

Also: The moment it's allowed, it's required. It'll be impossible to compete without them. So from high school on it will be, you take the drugs, or say goodbye to any chance at a scholarship or, you know, actually making the team. You just don't have a chance against someone who's juicing - they're going to be faster, stronger, and get over injuries quicker.

But its already like this. some people get by on genetics, some have to enhance theirs