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[MikeM]

Seems like we’re close to solving the puzzle.

Quoting a guy on r/amd



Unbelievable

If true, AMD skipped all the normal procedures to release a bugged product by end of year just for investors

What does this mean for early adopters?

 

[Buggy Loop]

What does this mean for early adopters?

A $1000 lemon

Broken silicon

I cannot even imagine the series of events that led to releasing a GPU with A0 silicon. It was apparently documented by amd employee in code that its broken. Did they make an A1..2..3 version but sent the A0 for fab by mistake? That.. that would look so bad on the team if true

 

[Admerer]

Look at the core clocks on some games dropping hard under load, especially with RT.
There's to many reports of chip design defects to be ignored, doubt drivers gonna fix most of it.

 

[SolidQ]

from same guy Native 4k Cyberpunk 4090 vs 7900XTX

 

[Reallink]

All the cards are basically hitting way above the max framerate of any headset on the market. The only weird ones are NMS and Asseto Corsa where you get exactly 50% synthesized frames which seems a little weird. Probably they are using h264 encoding instead of h265.

Those benchmarks represent older games at Valve Index 100% render resolution (no super sampling), a now 3.5 year old HMD whose resolution was unexceptional when it first launched (1440x1600 + 40% distortion correction). A more modern headset, with more modern games, ideally being super sampled are definitely going to struggle to hit frame rate targets even with a 4090. There's no such thing as too much performance with VR, you'll always want more. Super sampling in VR is as significant as a whole new HMD.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Had it not been for these recently identified bugs and went through some sort of QA/testing and proper execution would it have been 10%-20% better than 4080 in rasterization?

 

[twilo99]

shame. They really had my attention because of the previous two launches..

 

[//DEVIL//]

Had it not been for these recently identified bugs and went through some sort of QA/testing and proper execution would it have been 10%-20% better than 4080 in rasterization?

It already does for the most part have a 10% increase over 4080. however from some of the games benchmarked. a driver fix ( which AMD sucks at ) honestly can push the GPU to much higher levels. a look at COD MW2 and FH5 ( after you enable SAM), you are in the 4090 level here.

Now I am not expecting the card to reach 4090. but I believe with proper drivers if you have the power in you to wait, should be at least 20% more powerful than 4080 in resta

 

[Hydroxy]

I think people expected Nvidia to lose altogether, price and performance, against RDNA3. So because unreasonable expectations were not met, 'AMD loses'.

Which is absurd. They are kicking Nvidia's ass below the 4090.

The only ass that is getting kicked is the consumers. Nvidia and AMD both laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[supernova8]

A $1000 lemon

Broken silicon

I cannot even imagine the series of events that led to releasing a GPU with A0 silicon. It was apparently documented by amd employee in code that its broken. Did they make an A1..2..3 version but sent the A0 for fab by mistake? That.. that would look so bad on the team if true

Lisa Su knows what's what (ie she's not just a corporate suit with zero engineering background). If they really did release A0 silicon then she, someone close to her level, or someone else high up in management must have known. I absolutely cannot see that happening by accident.

If it did happen by accident (doubtful) then I expect they will be announcing a recall very soon (and offering the choice of a refund or guaranteed replacements when the "real" ones are ready) and asking retailers to take off the shelves (physical or not) any units that haven't been sold yet.

It's a bad look and personally I would respect them more if (assuming it's a big mistake and not intentional to rush it out before Christmas) they just put their hands up and say "sorry guys we literally made the most textbook mistake and we're working around the clock to sort it out".

 

[FireFly]

Lisa Su knows what's what (ie she's not just a corporate suit with zero engineering background). If they really did release A0 silicon then she, someone close to her level, or someone else high up in management must have known. I absolutely cannot see that happening by accident.

If it did happen by accident (doubtful) then I expect they will be announcing a recall very soon (and offering the choice of a refund or guaranteed replacements when the "real" ones are ready) and asking retailers to take off the shelves (physical or not) any units that haven't been sold yet.

It's a bad look and personally I would respect them more if (assuming it's a big mistake and not intentional to rush it out before Christmas) they just put their hands up and say "sorry guys we literally made the most textbook mistake and we're working around the clock to sort it out".

Perhaps they released it to hit their investor targets. I can see them thinking that it is good enough to compete against the 4080 with a price cut, and they can release a "fixed" version as the 7950 XTX in 6 months.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Hmm interesting - i think i'd definitely hold off on buying atm. There are too many unanswered questions.

 

[hlm666]

It already does for the most part have a 10% increase over 4080. however from some of the games benchmarked. a driver fix ( which AMD sucks at ) honestly can push the GPU to much higher levels. a look at COD MW2 and FH5 ( after you enable SAM), you are in the 4090 level here.

Now I am not expecting the card to reach 4090. but I believe with proper drivers if you have the power in you to wait, should be at least 20% more powerful than 4080 in resta

hardware unboxed had rebar/sam enabled and they had fh5 in their tested games and they don't seem to have got this massive performance increase?

 

[I Master l]

A $1000 lemon

Broken silicon

I cannot even imagine the series of events that led to releasing a GPU with A0 silicon. It was apparently documented by amd employee in code that its broken. Did they make an A1..2..3 version but sent the A0 for fab by mistake? That.. that would look so bad on the team if true

From Reddit

That's not proof of AMD releasing A0 silicon version. Engineering unit specific hacks can be put in drivers, even if there aren't any engineering samples in the wild. Lots of cards that are used by engineers internally at AMD pre-release (and even post-release) are A0, and it's perfectly reasonable to have A0 hacks in drivers to improve developer productivity.

For reference, engineers can't even get a lot of driver development done without A0 cards. And by the time a decent amount of work is done using A0 cards, A1 models arrive to engineers. Engineering gets A1 cards well before the official release. It makes 0 sense to manufacture more A0 cards at that point, especially to consumers. A1 cards can still have hardware bugs, actually every single graphics card has a decent amount of hardware bugs. It's just taken care of in the drivers.

 

[SABRE220]

Its honestly frustrating being an amd hopeful. They already had a rasterization advantage last gen and had a perfect chance to gain some ground after nvidias greedy practices and we end up with this underwhelming output...their flagship barely actually losing their rasterization advantage compared to last gen to select cases and being inferior to the last gen nvidia cards in RT, i mean its inferior to a 3090 sometimes.....even intel with their first effort produced a superior rt pipeline. People trying desperately to play the RT is not important narrative should just stop....people are not buying 1000$dollar graphics cards to play the latest game without the best visual fidelity...pc gamers buy the latest graphics cards to watch tech being pushed not to see a game being played at lower settings at 150fps.

To make matters worse they launched a bugged card losing out on power efficiency compared to rdna2 even though they pushed the efficiency and die size narrative during their presentation....at this point, we might as well pray for intel to get their asses in gear to push nvidia because amd is so far behind they aren't catching up its not even close.. I wonder how things would have turned out if amd never bought ati and its sole focus remained on gpu tech.

 

[Ovek]

All this drama over some developer comments in code barely anybody understands with zero fucking proof of AMD releasing A0 silicone, which I highly fucking doubt they did.

The internet these days… fucking hell

 

[I Master l]

All this drama over some developer comments in code barely anybody understands with zero fucking proof of AMD releasing A0 silicone, which I highly fucking doubt they did.

The internet these days… fucking hell

Just a bunch of Nvidia fans who bought the 4080/4090 and want to feel good about their
purchase by bashing AMD

 

[Black_Stride]

Just a bunch of Nvidia fans how bought the 4080/4090 and want to feel good about their
purchase by bashing AMD

You are assuming people bought 4080s?

 

[Buggy Loop]

From Reddit

They counter checked with GPU-Z and vbios readouts, not just the driver code.

GPU-Z reports board revision, vbios reports GPU revision. That doesn’t mean 100% solved case, it’s just a bunch of dudes searching with the little to no tools we have to see what’s going on?

If you read the wall of this guy on twitter, his 5500XT beats the 7900XTX fur mark score hardware unboxed got. The hell? It’s all over the place.

Whatever happened, 100% fixable via driver or workaround via drivers (typically penalty in performance compared to 100% functional hardware), it showcases that AMD is fumbling around. If they didn’t know, it’s not a good look. If they did know, it’s not a good look.

By 1-2 weeks we should have a clearer image of what happened. Best hope is some silly driver mistake.

 

[GreatnessRD]

You are assuming people bought 4080s?

After the 7900 series review, I think a lot of people went 4080, to be honest. After you throw in the AIB's, you're right there at 4080 money anyway.

 

[Buggy Loop]

You are assuming people bought 4080s?

*at this price

 

[Marlenus]

What say yee now?

7900XT beating the 4090 by alot, because "its fucking maths" and has "chiplets".

Mate it looks like its a generation behind.
Yall drank the koolaid

1) TBP is 355W which is below what I said the minimum would be to match the 4090 which was 375W-400W if you actually read my post.

2) AMD fell short of their perf/w gains which compounds the above.

3) When the clocks and power are cranked to 3.2ghz and 450 or so watts it is actually pretty close to a 4090 in CP2077 (would love more tests to get a wider picture here)

It simply looks like the VF curve is not as good as AMD designed for which means less performance at a given wattage.

So yes, not as great as hoped due to AMD not hitting the perf/W target. The biggest issue I have is how misleading AMD were in the reveal presentation, they just flushed 5 years of trust building down the shitter.

EDIT. I also noticed you didn't quote my actual prediction of ~4090 @ 375W from further up the thread.

On top of that your RT prediction is hilarious.

So effectively RDNA2 all over again?
They might match and even beat Ada in some games no doubt.

But we know how big the GCD and MCDs are, we know the nodes being used.
We have a good guess of how high the thing can boost.
It has 3x8pins so thats approx 450-500W TDP.

At best at best in pure raster it will match a 4090 during synthetics.
RT performance hopefully on par with xx70 Ampere maybe even a 3080'10G
A few AMD favoring games will give the edge to the 7900XT too.....but beyond that, the 7900XT is once again going to be a borderline nonexistent card.

Rather look at the 76/77/78XT and hope they are priced competitively cuz Nvidia got no answer to those right now.

At the top end, forget about it.

RT on par with the 3080? It actually matches the 3090Ti on average.

 

[Irobot82]

Anyone else notice MSI haven't announced any 7900 models?

 

[Black_Stride]

1) TBP is 355W which is below what I said the minimum would be to match the 4090 which was 375W-400W if you actually read my post.

2) AMD fell short of their perf/w gains which compounds the above.

3) When the clocks and power are cranked to 3.2ghz and 450 or so watts it is actually pretty close to a 4090 in CP2077 (would love more tests to get a wider picture here)

It simply looks like the VF curve is not as good as AMD designed for which means less performance at a given wattage.

So yes, not as great as hoped due to AMD not hitting the perf/W target. The biggest issue I have is how misleading AMD were in the reveal presentation, they just flushed 5 years of trust building down the shitter.

The TUF has a TBP of 450W so thats not the issue.
Pretty much every AIB 4090 hits 75fps in CP2077 at 4K.
With a simple overclock that would easily be 80fps.

So the 7900XTX with a very careful almost surgical overclock and undervolt gets to below a base 4090.
A 4090 simply going to its natural clock rate is still 10fps ahead.
So we are right back where we started?

Anyone else notice MSI haven't announced any 7900 models?

Last gen they didnt make any high tier variants of AMD cards.
There was no SuprimX of the RX6000s only Gaming Trio and Gaming X Trio.
Come to think of it, i dont think there were even Ventus RX6000s

That might have been the first sign MSI isnt particularly interested in making AMD graphics cards.
This gen they havent even announced anything.
No leaks about RDNA3 have come from MSI.

Me thinks theyve just given up making AMD GPUs.

 

[Irobot82]

Last gen they didnt make any high tier variants of AMD cards.
There was no SuprimX of the RX6000s only Gaming Trio and Gaming X Trio.
Come to think of it, i dont think there were even Ventus RX6000s

That might have been the first sign MSI isnt particularly interested in making AMD graphics cards.
This gen they havent even announced anything.
No leaks about RDNA3 have come from MSI.

Me thinks theyve just given up making AMD GPUs.

That's a shame, 2 of my kids have 6600XT Gaming OC's and another has a 6650XT Gaming OC.

 

[CLW]

I was a bit disappointed with the raster XTX and now with all these rumors of something is wrong with the amd cards I’m just going to stick with my ps5 and wait and see what happpens before I drop $2K on my first pc build

 

[Razvedka]

Just a bunch of Nvidia fans who bought the 4080/4090 and want to feel good about their
purchase by bashing AMD

Which is crazy to me. I bought a 4090, thing is amazing. I still want AMD to kick in Nvidia's head.

 

[Black_Stride]

That's a shame, 2 of my kids have 6600XT Gaming OC's and another has a 6650XT Gaming OC.

The Gaming OC was made by Gigabyte not MSI.

The Gaming OC has already been announced.

 

[Irobot82]

The Gaming OC was made by Gigabyte not MSI.

The Gaming OC has already been announced.

My bad, I'm tired. Mech 2X's.

 

[hlm666]

I was a bit disappointed with the raster XTX and now with all these rumors of something is wrong with the amd cards I’m just going to stick with my ps5 and wait and see what happpens before I drop $2K on my first pc build

Can't say that's a bad idea, relax have a good xmas and look into it next year. The whole market at the moment is beyond fucked especially if your building from scratch.

 

[DaGwaphics]

After the 7900 series review, I think a lot of people went 4080, to be honest. After you throw in the AIB's, you're right there at 4080 money anyway.

Hardly. In the US the price gap is even larger when you compare AIB to AIB cards:

GeForce RTX 4080 GPUs / Video Graphics Cards | Newegg.com

Shop GeForce RTX 4080 GPUs / Video Graphics Cards on Newegg.com. Watch for amazing deals and get great pricing.

www.newegg.com

Radeon RX 7900 XTX GPUs / Video Graphics Cards | Newegg.com

Shop Radeon RX 7900 XTX GPUs / Video Graphics Cards on Newegg.com. Watch for amazing deals and get great pricing.

www.newegg.com

 

[DaGwaphics]

I was a bit disappointed with the raster XTX and now with all these rumors of something is wrong with the amd cards I’m just going to stick with my ps5 and wait and see what happpens before I drop $2K on my first pc build

I wouldn't let any nonsense about why this and why that alter your decision making. Judge the cards based on the performance data available, what you want to pay, and what you expect to get out of the product. Crazy rumors about the how and why don't matter much at the end of the day.

 

[poppabk]

Hardly. In the US the price gap is even larger when you compare AIB to AIB cards:

http://[URL]https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709 601408875&Order=1

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709 601410968&Order=1

[/URL]

Yeah I was surprised to see that most cards are pretty much at MSRP for AMD or at least were while they were available. Not sure why I am even looking seeing as I just bought a 6900xt, mainly just to feel good about the deal I got I guess.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Yeah I was surprised to see that most cards are pretty much at MSRP for AMD or at least were while they were available. Not sure why I am even looking seeing as I just bought a 6900xt, mainly just to feel good about the deal I got I guess.

from the provided link, most AMD cards are reference cards from AIBs. those you will never see again. The same way you will never see a reference AIB card for Nvidia anymore. those just first run because they are required to have them.

Now all you will see is AIB-designed coolers and AIB prices. if you look at the list, it starts from 1100$ for the basic one. but it goes up to 1200$ and so.

again this is not something against AMD. as Nvidia ( from the link provided as well ) AIB listings are not referenced designs which is why they are expensive.

 

[adamosmaki]

A bit off topic but is it to much nowdays to want Nvidia/AMD to release a mid range GPU for 300-400 with a 40-50% performance increase over current mid range offerings which are disappointing considering they are barely faster than the rtx 2060s/rx 5600/5700 ?

 

[poppabk]

A bit off topic but is it to much nowdays to want Nvidia/AMD to release a mid range GPU for 300-400 with a 40-50% performance increase over current mid range offerings which are disappointing considering they are barely faster than the rtx 2060s/rx 5600/5700 ?

Sadly I think the answer is that those days are gone. Used to be that everyone was looking at mid range bang for your buck, but nowadays all anyone talks about is the top end cards and the prices you want to pay for a card are the 'you might as well pay the extra $x' price differences between already $1000+ cards.

 

[Marlenus]

The TUF has a TBP of 450W so thats not the issue.
Pretty much every AIB 4090 hits 75fps in CP2077 at 4K.
With a simple overclock that would easily be 80fps.

So the 7900XTX with a very careful almost surgical overclock and undervolt gets to below a base 4090.
A 4090 simply going to its natural clock rate is still 10fps ahead.
So we are right back where we started?

1) The TUF does not have a TBP of 450W. The OC model at its stock performance config pulls around 400W.

2) FPS is always scene dependent. It will always vary review to review because different places use different scenes so saying the AIB 4090 does 75 and OCd does 80 is utterly meaningless unless you are pointing to another TPU review where we know the variables are all the same. You can't right now because he changed his rig between the 4090 AIB reviews and the XTX launch so you can't compare like for like.

3)The card was maxed out. Increase power limit, Up the clockspeed slider until you are power limited, drop the voltage, repeat until you lose stability. Pretty standard stuff. To call that an almost surgical overclock is just nonsense.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Now all you will see is AIB-designed coolers and AIB prices. if you look at the list, it starts from 1100$ for the basic one. but it goes up to 1200$ and so.

The PowerColor cards aren't priced bad (Hellbound $1k and Red Devil $1,100), those should continue to be produced as should the GIGABYTE Gaming at $1k. But, yeah the copycat reference cards will be dropped.

 

[Black_Stride]

A bit off topic but is it to much nowdays to want Nvidia/AMD to release a mid range GPU for 300-400 with a 40-50% performance increase over current mid range offerings which are disappointing considering they are barely faster than the rtx 2060s/rx 5600/5700 ?

I think 300 dollars is now completely outta the question from Nvidia.
There is hope from AMD.
Its all but guaranteed from Intel.

The cuts Nvidia would be doing would actually make the 3060 look like good deals vs im guessing 4050/Ti.
If
The 4070Ti is 7-800 dollars
The 4070 5-600
The 4060 which will likely be a match for the 3070/Ti will probably end up costing exactly the same as a 3070/Ti today, the 3070/ti might even be the better bet value wise.
The 4050/Ti will be in the same spot you are disappointed in where it would barely be faster than an RTX 3060.

The real issue with the price hike that happened with GPUs, is that now older generation cards start looking better from a price/perf perspective and new cards look less enticing.
At the upper end people dont really care about that, they just want more.
In the mid/low range.....beating the 3060Ti/6700XT in terms of price/perf right now is gonna be a tall tall order from Nvidia and even AMD.
The replacement 4060Ti already looks like its gonna be a hard sell.

 

[DaGwaphics]

@ Black_Stride yeah I saw that 4060ti leak/rumor. If true, it looks like a real disappointment waiting to happen on paper, we'll see how it performs.

The numbers leaking out about the mobile 4050 look even more disappointing, apparently doesn't even match the mobile 3060. Desktop 4050 might fall more in line with that bastardized 8GB 3060.

 

[//DEVIL//]

The PowerColor cards aren't priced bad (Hellbound $1k and Red Devil $1,100), those should continue to be produced as should the GIGABYTE Gaming at $1k. But, yeah the copycat reference cards will be dropped.

did you see the hellhound unboxing? it looks cheaper and worse than the reference. even the fans look like 2$ fans you find on Alibaba and you would be like ouff that is ugly ( which probably its 1$ fan or so. because the rgb on those fans are like just 2 colors. a baby blue and purple. it doesnt even a basic rgb )

I have never seen such a cheap-looking modern video card like this. I wouldn't want to put it in my case. people will think it's a 7-year-old card.

Edit : duh, its Hellhound not hellbound. lol thanks DaGwaphics

 

[DaGwaphics]

did you see the hellbound unboxing? it looks cheaper and worse than the reference. even the fans look like 2$ fans you find on Alibaba and you would be like ouff that is ugly ( which probably its 1$ fan or so. because the rgb on those fans are like just 2 colors. a baby blue and purple. it doesnt even a basic rgb )

I have never seen such a cheap-looking video card I wouldn't want to put it in my case. people will think it's a 7-year-old card.

I'm not one of those users that gives a single shit about what a GPU looks like. I always gravitate to the more simplistic models anyway. Hellbound (or is it HellHound, I never remember) and the Gigabyte gaming look fine to me LOL. If I was getting one the research I'd be doing would be more about the temps and whether or not the memory chips are getting cooled properly and that kind of thing.

Many times the cheap fans function better as well, thanks to the thinner plastic (just don't let anything ping them when running, LOL).

I'd probably lean more towards the smaller Gigabyte gaming for a two 8-pin model so long as the cooling was "good enough".

 

[Orta]

Cutting through

Its all in the pricing; is the 7900xtx worth $200 less? That's questionable.

Looking at Newegg; the 7900xtx is sold out. Pricing shows $999. The 4080's average around $1400.

$999 vs $1400 - that's a big difference.

Yep. That $400 will go towards a juicer cpu to partner the card. No brainier really.

 

[MikeM]

Anyone order from amd direct before? How long does it take to ship after an order is done?

 

[poppabk]

I'm not one of those users that gives a single shit about what a GPU looks like. I always gravitate to the more simplistic models anyway. Hellbound and the Gigabyte gaming look fine to me LOL. If I was getting one the research I'd be doing would be more about the temps and whether or not the memory chips are getting cooled properly and that kind of thing.

Many times the cheap fans function better as well, thanks to the thinner plastic (just don't let anything ping them when running, LOL).

Yeah I wish I could find the asshole who came up with glass sides for PC cases and turned them into sculptures rather than functional black boxes.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Yeah I wish I could find the asshole who came up with glass sides for PC cases and turned them into sculptures rather than functional black boxes.

Glass or no glass, my PC will always be a function over form device.

 

[GreatnessRD]

Hardly. In the US the price gap is even larger when you compare AIB to AIB cards:

GeForce RTX 4080 GPUs / Video Graphics Cards | Newegg.com

Shop GeForce RTX 4080 GPUs / Video Graphics Cards on Newegg.com. Watch for amazing deals and get great pricing.

www.newegg.com

Radeon RX 7900 XTX GPUs / Video Graphics Cards | Newegg.com

Shop Radeon RX 7900 XTX GPUs / Video Graphics Cards on Newegg.com. Watch for amazing deals and get great pricing.

www.newegg.com

Well, I'm only going off my Microcenter stock. Prior to the review of the 7900 series, they had a TON of stock of 4080s. Now they're down to two models with 5 and 1 in stock respectively when that wasn't the case a mere for days ago, haha.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Well, I'm only going off my Microcenter stock. Prior to the review of the 7900 series, they had a TON of stock of 4080s. Now they're down to two models with 5 and 1 in stock respectively when that wasn't the case a mere for days ago, haha.

They had to eventually sell out of that launch shipment. 7900XTX seems to already be gone for the most part.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah I wish I could find the asshole who came up with glass sides for PC cases and turned them into sculptures rather than functional black boxes.

I had to buy a new case and the model with a good offer had a glass panel, i already dread the room becoming a fucking carnival of rio with all those fucking leds on sight...

 

[adamosmaki]

I think 300 dollars is now completely outta the question from Nvidia.
There is hope from AMD.
Its all but guaranteed from Intel.

The cuts Nvidia would be doing would actually make the 3060 look like good deals vs im guessing 4050/Ti.
If
The 4070Ti is 7-800 dollars
The 4070 5-600
The 4060 which will likely be a match for the 3070/Ti will probably end up costing exactly the same as a 3070/Ti today, the 3070/ti might even be the better bet value wise.
The 4050/Ti will be in the same spot you are disappointed in where it would barely be faster than an RTX 3060.

The real issue with the price hike that happened with GPUs, is that now older generation cards start looking better from a price/perf perspective and new cards look less enticing.
At the upper end people dont really care about that, they just want more.
In the mid/low range.....beating the 3060Ti/6700XT in terms of price/perf right now is gonna be a tall tall order from Nvidia and even AMD.
The replacement 4060Ti already looks like its gonna be a hard sell.

Man if those 4060ti rumors are true is gonna be DOA if AMD release something decent in the 400-500 range.
A 128b bit bus and only 8gb is laughable for a card most likely to cost 600 .