KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Hell yea, man! That's why everyone is super hyped for Knac- oh....
It's just maple being maple.
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Ryse Confirmed 900p, was always 900p...
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
- Start date
Hell yea, man! That's why everyone is super hyped for Knac- oh....
It's just maple being maple.
I don't think so. But then again I'm not even sure what that post means exactly.
No they are just using letterboxing to completely get rid of pixels altogether.
Has nothing to do with the platform I've heard quite a few people that are disappointing in the exclusive AAA launch lineup for the PS4.
dragonelite
Member
Im not so sure you could optimize for pixels or you can optimize for new effects.
Will wait for captured footage of the new build.
Wish they disclosed some more coop information like classes and builds.
Native res is 1920*1080 = 2mil pixels
1920 * 800 = 1.536mil pixels 75% of FullHD
1600 * 900 = 1.440mil pixels 69.4% of FullHD
Both are reallocating pixel processing performance from 1080p to do more with the pixels they have.
Ryse will probably use previous frames information for an post effect AA
The order will use black bars so no scaling from what i gathered its also an Forward+ rendering engine so changes are 2~4xMSAA perhaps.
Would not be surprised if The Order 1886 will be best graphics next year.
But i have gaming rig so my only interest in console graphics are the presentations that are presented.
Chobel
Member
I'm talking about the resolution, 1080p is better than 900p. They said it's design choice, by that they mean however powerful the system is, they will always render at 900p first, and that's why what I think it's bullshit.
I know this is quite pointless for me to respond....but for clarification I will.
Firstly. Both consoles have audio chips that will offload processes that would otherwise burden the cpu/gpu. The audio chip in the Xbox One, despite being more powerful, will make no tangible difference to games compared to PS4. The only reason the Xbox One's is more powerful is because it has more audio uses to consider (Kinect and multi tasked audio). Both audio chips have the sole purpose of dealing with audio related functionality, and are almost entirely reserved for such uses.
Secondly, the cpu clock speed bump translates to roughly 9 Gflops of extra performance to the Xbox One. To put that in perspective, the PS4 still has roughly a 521 Gflop performance advantage. The CPU bump is going to make a negligible difference in the grand scheme of things.
Thirdly, the chances are that more of the Xbox One's CPU and GPU is reserved for non gaming tasks, to allow for Kinect, multitasking and snap screen (something the PS4 does not have to consider), on top of that, the PS4 is still rumoured to have an additional 1GB of ram available for games, and on top of that still, the PS4 has unified ram at a much faster bandwidth than the vast majority of the Xbox One's ram (8GB DDR3).
Just let those sink in for a bit. Don't respond in a knee jerk manner, automatically assuming what I've posted is inaccurate, because it's not. Pause, go over what has been said, and consider it logically and against evidenced figures and facts.
Have You even read a post I quoted? I guess not.
--
I wish they released story trailer already. They've built game around story, but havent made any story trailer yet. I hope thats because they were finalizing lighting and shading, so they didnt want publish compromised version, and because they almost closed those, they'll release something soon.
150k polygons is better than 85k polygons yet this changed allowed them to push in more areas to make the game look better. If RYSE has some fantastic scaling why not develop at 900p so you can push the game even further?
I believe this is because both chips have the same number of triangle setup engines (or somesuch) but the XBO one runs at 853mhz vs 800mhz.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
He's basically a gaf member by proxy by now. He has made more threads today than I have this year.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Perhaps Crytek went for 900p and greater visual effects because the IQ looks practically the same either way?
It does make sense to me that 900p looks as good as 1080p with a game like Ryse. It sounds like they have a fairly good AA and upscaling solution.
No perceived visual difference.
It does make sense to me that 900p looks as good as 1080p with a game like Ryse. It sounds like they have a fairly good AA and upscaling solution.
No perceived visual difference.
Nope;
So trying to get the discussion back on topic, so I went around mapping out the GCN family GPU and their resources, trying to see if there was any balanced (or unbalanced) GPUs;
From the above you can see that Prim rate doesnt really effect overall performance as much, see how the 7790 has more triangle output than the 7850, same goes with 7870 over 7950/7970.
Second, an excess of pixel fill (ROP) isnt of tangible benefit either - 7870 having 25% more pixell fill over the 7950 yet that doesnt translate well in games because it's lacking in other areas - compute/texel fill.
These are the two areas that Microsoft decided to strengthen by going with the upclock and the two areas they gave away was texel and compute ..
How again is this a more balanced design? Oh yeah, those numbers that they ran on current titles, ones which will never be public domain. ¬_¬
*Performance source
Chobel
Member
And that's exactly why it's not a design choice, they made comprises to make the game looks good. If they had a more powerful system they wouldn't choose 900p.
What I'm trying to say is: He made it look that they will always choose 900p no matter how powerful the system is.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Crytek would target 720p if they wouldn't catch a bunch of flack for doing it.
Not necessarily. They could keep it at 900p on a more powerful system so they can crank up other graphical effects.
Chobel
Member
They should. 720 upscaled to 900p then upscaled to 1080p, no one will notice.
joking
velociraptor
Junior Member
1080p is always the preferred choice. However, I'm assuming they dropped to 900p to the additional performance. And it probably didn't make much difference to the IQ so it was deemed a justified choice.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Sad thing is that they probably have stuff in the engine that they couldn't put in the game otherwise, and is not currently in the game as it is.
Nice try, but you're wrong. Pretty much everyone uses 'Full HD' to mean 1080p.
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666519135
http://www.samsung.com/in/consumer/tv-audio-video/television/led-tv/UA32EH5000RLXL
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+TV/VIERA+Overview/4916489/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/5063066.stm
I've heard these reasons before and I don't need them to sink in, I've read through B3D's analysis on this stuff and I trust them to know what they are talking about.
I suggest you do the same.
http://beyond3d.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15
Framebuffer is native 1080p for RYSE.
Chobel
Member
Possibly, but I'll believe that only when every game they create on consoles in the future is 900p.
Why? No matter how powerful your machine is you'll always be able to push more at 900p than at 1080p.
That is a choice though they could have very well turned down the graphics to increase it to 1080p.
http://i.minus.com/iY3VerKPTgBGw.jpg
http://i.minus.com/izNbD75aU5Mz1.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iwnyMoAmg38RQ.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iz2qsEnlVvmlm.jpg
http://i.minus.com/i7q70V7y6Uz1.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iRAXS3QjjZlvY.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iC0JrTUQ8jx4V.jpg
Chobel
Member
I wouldn't call "upscale to 1080p" a FULL HD.
Fresh Face
Banned
I'll be honest, if I could get an upscaler that fools people into thinking 900p is 1080p, then yeah, I'd go for that if it meant better graphics/physics/etc.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
The gameplay itself looks terrible but the game looks good. Coming from someone who never had any intention of getting an X1, I'd like to ask - what's the big deal?
Whilst there are obviously some (rare) insiders and knowledgeable people who post at B3D, most are ignorant idiots who consistently spread FUD and misinformation and have done so for several months now, largely un-moderated and un-challenged. Lord knows how many different secret sauces, rumours etc they've cycled through that have all turned out to be rubbish.
Can you at least link me to some posts that rebut my post? (Aside from the 1-2 Gflop discrepancy in the total Gflop numbers.) Or are you literally just going to swallow everything you read over there that suits your own preference putting logic, maths, numbers and facts aside?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Oh god, what have you done.
Fresh Face
Banned
Well, that's hard to say, but judging by the fact that the post was 3 pages ago I'm not sure it much matters...
Chobel
Member
That's a choice in Xbox One because of its limitation, but for a more powerful machine they would have gone with 1080p.
I'm not saying Ryse looks bad, it looks fucking good. I only don't agree with that tweet.
But at some point you won't have anything significant to push. and at the point it's just better to increase resolution.
I'll wait for another direct feed video, if it manage to deceive 1080p test, every game should go with 900p from now on.
That point starts at about probably 100Tflops.
Facts aside?
Hah! Give me a break there buddy.
How about these facts:
The GPU/CPU don't help the Kinect as it uses "part" of the dedicated audio chip and it's own on-board processors without outside help.
The CPU on the Xbox One was bumped to 1.75 Ghz from 1.6 Ghz and has a 10 GB/s bandwidth advantage over the PS4.
The Xbox One dedicated audio chip is much stronger than the audio chip in the PS4 and is by itself more powerful than a single core on the CPU and since it's purpose-built for audio it does a much better and faster job at it than the CPU/GPU would.
If you're interested in the ESRAM you should check out this:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects
No I don't believe everything I read on B3D and I also don't believe everything I read on GAF, is it really this hard for you to admit that the Xbox One does have certain advantages over the PS4?
The Xbox One was purpose-built for a balanced design with many extra processors and a completely coherent design to make every part work at high efficiency.
It's been deceiving people since E3, also they just said they wouldn't have on the PS4.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Ehhh, I disagree so much. Resolution isn't this instant, superior solution to every other thing a dev could be doing with their game graphically as some people think. I really do think this argument over resolution has become nothing but a silly penis measuring contest. In fact, that's what the p in 900p or 1080p stands for. 'penis.'
Chobel
Member
Ehhh, I disagree so much. Resolution isn't this instant, superior solution to every other thing a dev could be doing with their game graphically as some people think. I really do think this argument over resolution has become nothing but a silly penis measuring contest. In fact, that's what the p in 900p or 1080p stands for. 'penis.'
I'm talking about human and artistic resources, adding more content takes time and creativity. You don't just push anything.
I just believe it's some kind of PR, but hey, I could be wrong. And I hope I'm wrong.
Does anyone know the source of the screenshots used in the gif?
One is from crytek assets site, second is from twitch stream Cevat's presentation.
Both arent indicative of IQ.
Fresh Face
Banned
Does anyone know the source of the screenshots used in the gif?
One from E3 and one from the "Stream" which I believe there was a thread about.
Hmm, I just noticed the dude-on-the-right's leather straps clipping through his armor on the older, "shinier" pic.
Ehhh, I disagree so much. Resolution isn't this instant, superior solution to every other thing a dev could be doing with their game graphically as some people think. I really do think this argument over resolution has become nothing but a silly penis measuring contest. In fact, that's what the p in 900p or 1080p stands for. 'penis.'
Exactly. The thought of a pile of 900 penises is just as gross as the thought of a pile 1,080 of them.
My apologies if you take that comment seriously
Models are already made from 40m polys, textures are probably made in 16k. Also You dont need creativity to add effects. You just enable higher precision simulations or change algorithms, like for better cloth collision, or more get more particles or they stay longer [one slide in SDK].
dragonelite
Member
Does anyone know the source of the screenshots used in the gif?
The clipping one comes from an 1440p source downscaled to 1080p i believe.
The one with the lit faces is from a twitch feed so you have twitch compression and gif compression over it. Hard to tell if the majority of the blur is from upscaling or compresception.
Mega textures?
Seems logical given gcn function for prt.
Yes, Turn 10 said they are using all the hardware in the Xbox One.
Blur is from it being from a video stream.
Already you're posting misinformation. The CPU does not have a 10 GB/s bandwidth advantage over the PS4's CPU, not when you include the PS4's Onion bus.
Side note, did you even read my post? Like I said about knee jerk illogical responses. Go back and read my post about what I said about the Xbox One's audio chip compared to the PS4's and why it makes little to no difference to games performance. Here, I'll highlight it for you...
nib95 said:
Fresh Face
Banned
You did say that it's not much of a difference because the extra power in the One's audio chip is used mostly for other things like Kinect. I don't think so...Kinect does most of that by itself.
I still can't get over how clunky the animations are. Goddamn.
I hear a lot of this. Nothing personal, but are people really so naive? Current generation (PS3), during first few years had some 1080p titles and ended with upscaled 720p games... If anything, this generation is supposed to be MUCH easier to code for. Therefore future games shouldn't really stand out from launch titles in terms of framerate (30fps), resolution (720p) and graphics...
Also, one of Ryse screenshots:
THIS LOOKS REALLY UGLY. Why would they even share something like that?
It makes little to no difference because you say so? Okay then...
http://www.gamepur.com/news/11504-p...ate-buses-cpu-20gbs-and-gpu176gbs-report.html
Onion has a bus speed of 20 GB/s for the CPU, Xbox One has a 30 GB/s CPU access speed.
I hear a lot of this. Nothing personal, but are people really so naive? Current generation (PS3), during first few years had some 1080p titles and ended with upscaled 720p games... If anything, this generation is supposed to be MUCH easier to code for. Therefore future games shouldn't really stand out from launch titles in terms of framerate (30fps), resolution (720p) and graphics...
Also, one of Ryse screenshots:
THIS LOOKS REALLY UGLY. Why would they even share something like that?
Are we really cherry picking dark screenshots with lighting blocking most of the details?
dragonelite
Member
Onion is rated at 20GB/s and whatever the X1 buss is called was rated at 30GB/s
if im not mistaken.
Microsoft could give back more audio block resource to developers later on that are no taken by kinect. That stereo surround demo posted in the AMD R9x series thread was awesome if devs could allow that it would be fucking awesome.