shinobi602
Member
Getting really heated.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/03/world/middleeast/ap-ml-saudi-arabia.html
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Saudi Arabia & Iran sever ties after execution of top Shia reformist cleric
- Thread starter shinobi602
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TheLostBigBoss
Banned
entremet
Member
Water is wet.
dapperbandit
Banned
It's depressing to know that the USA will end up backing the KSA in any conflict between the two states.
TheRealTalker
Banned
Other Sunni and Shia countries shouldn't get involved
this is a Arab/Persian conflict more so a GCC (minus Oman) and Iran conflict
let them deal with each other face to face
this is a Arab/Persian conflict more so a GCC (minus Oman) and Iran conflict
let them deal with each other face to face
Yep this is how I'm seeing things.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
It's not really that strange, historically
The only thing more predictable than Arabs fighting each other is America bending over for Oil and Money.
gutter_trash
Banned
Both shitty countries with both shitty extremist views.
The West is stupid for picking a side since both Iran and Saudia Arabia are both evil
The West is stupid for picking a side since both Iran and Saudia Arabia are both evil
Why? Happens all the time.
TheRealTalker
Banned
or rather his son
They can't go after each other openly so this can easily spiral into a cold war with terror groups as proxies (not that different to THE Cold War, now that I think about it). Iraq will be in a tight spot. World powers could be forced to pick sides. And then there's the religious angle that brings the 30 Years War to mind, which devolved into one of bloodiest conflicts in European history.
So to answer your question: probably. Then again, this is the Middle East and I'm not sure I can give any suggestions on just how it's even possible for the region to become less stable compared to the current Arab Spring aftermath beyond even more terror attacks and uprisings.
Iran is the better of the two as far as human rights go. Not to say Iran doesn't have huge room for improvement, but they're far less distasteful than the bloody KSA.
gutter_trash
Banned
campfireweekend
Member
And what's more predictable than even that? People flagrantly showing their misunderstanding of the region by stating that Iranians are in any way arabs.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Hitler and Stalin would disagree
On topic, this isn't good, diplomacy falls to the Sunni/Shia conflict
TheRealTalker
Banned
in execution rulings they are pretty much the same
tons of anti government individuals or Sunnis (Primarily Kurds) are executed in Iran .... They actually have more executions yearly then SA
dapperbandit
Banned
Iran has oil too.
Unfortunately Israel remains a cornerstone of US Foreign Policy and Iran has a history of saying less than nice things about the state to put it lightly
Also it's just a matter of things being too far gone; even discounting Iran's position on Israel, their alignment with Russia and to a lesser extent China puts them with the opposition.
Azure Dream
Member
The Anti-PS4.
Iran is Arab now?
andythinkpad
Member
Middle East meat grinder continues.
It's a matter of time SA and Iran drop the proxy war and go bareknuckle.
It's a matter of time SA and Iran drop the proxy war and go bareknuckle.
Abinash117
Member
Probably nothing will come out of these immediately or soon since both this nations were already hostile to each other, but if there's a more of a bigger proxy fight, it may not end well for Iran since they have very little allies in the region and far more enemies or rivals.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
Iran's probably betting on the Russia card in that regard.
The only thing that can send oil prices skyrocketing again. Two of the biggest oil producers in the world at war with each other.
Picture the Saudis going after Iranian tankers in the Gulf, or Iran trying to ignite the Saudi oil fields.
Abinash117
Member
I doubt Russia will get very involved, any public siding with Iran will make them unfriendly will many Sunni nations during a potential escalated conflict between SA and Iran. Might lock them out of a good chuck of the middle east. If anything it will be more discrete support and maybe bigger political one. Regardless a Russian backing won't probably be enough long term I think.
jimbobsmells
Member
Yeah it's disappointing how many people think Iranians are Arabs.
TheRealTalker
Banned
Russia has a large ethnic Muslim population and top clerics and they are all Sunni
they can stretch this friendship but eventually they'll hit a wall
Edit: I just realized something... severing diplomatic relations really isn't true if Iranians still need to talk to Saudi government officials to go to Mecca and Medina
It won't end well for Saudi Arabia I think. Saudi Arabia is fast becoming exposed as perhaps one of the, if not worst nations in the world especially with regards to human rights, oppression, even in North Korea women can drive. Because of their support for Israel and their dominance of OPEC and oil, and the purchasing of US military hardware, Saudi Arabia is given a free pass so many times. They are the greatest sponsor of terrorism around the globe, they fund radical groups like Al-Qaeda, ISIS.
They brutally suppressed their own Arab Spring uprising, and have instead gone on to bomb the hell out of the Houthi Shiite rebels in Yemen just so their puppet sunni government can stay and not have another Shia country or government in the region.
It's not so much about Iran having more allies or whatnot, as opposed to declining Muslim/Arab support for Saudi Arabia. They are far more militarily stronger than Iran, and they will have Israeli and US support in any moves they do, but from Iraq, to Syria, to Yemen, Lebanon, Shia Islam is gaining influence, and are becoming emboldened.
This map is somewhat recent, but it shows the distribution of Shia Islam in the area. Overwhelmingly the majority of the Muslims in the world are Sunni, but in the region, especially around Saudi Arabia, they are being encircled by Shia Islamic states, and it's why they quickly started to bomb the hell out of the Houthi rebels in Yemen who almost toppled the Sunni government. The biggest change in the region has been the toppling of Iraq as a Sunni minority government and one of Iran's greatest enemies has now become their biggest ally.
TheRealTalker
Banned
I think you are wrong in some cases
Yemen has a shia population but the country is split more so demographically with more Sunnis then Shias
Syria is a Sunni majority country and Iraq is also split
SA bombed a bunch of hospitals and and civilian areas which is true but the Houthis are also bad shelling civilians cutting aid and causing havoc
Even if SA did collapse the Muslim world is mostly Sunni and some other force will rise in to fill the void like Egypt or Turkey
Also SA is bad (and corrupt) but not North Korea bad... please people aren't dying in the streets of SA due to hunger and oppression
Called this fuckery back in the first thread about the executions (btw I think Sijil should be unbanned). So yeah, more middle eastern tribalism in case we all didn't get our fills just from the last year, much less the last few decades.
Both these countries are theocratic trash of the highest order, and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. So you know, a good start to the new year.
Both these countries are theocratic trash of the highest order, and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. So you know, a good start to the new year.
I edited my post above to show a pic. Yes the majority of the world's Muslims are Sunni but I'm talking about Saudi Arabia versus Iran here, and in that immediate region, Shia Islam has gained a dominant foothold. If they didn't, Saudi Arabia wouldn't have bombed Yemen or have begged the US to 'cut the head off the snake' for Iran. If SA falls, sure Turkey or another Sunni majority nation will become the leader of the Sunni Muslim world, but in the region, Iran will have become the de facto voice.
Also, I'm not saying Saudi Arabia and North Korea are equals in the terms of the word. Just that Saudi Arabia is a brutally repressive regime, and one where human rights barely matter, especially for women.
TheRealTalker
Banned
I agree SA is more surrounded now by pro Iranian countries but I think Yemen is the biggest border threat
Iraq... they built a massive border around that and have fellow Sunni countries to manage that..... Syria isn't going to be invading anyone any-time soon and being a large Sunni majority country like any country that has a minority ruling the majority
good luck with that
Are you from SA by any chance? I'm just curious. We seem to be arguing two separate things here. I have no dog in the fight.
I'm saying that this has been brewing for a long time, and the changing of Iraq from Sunni government and enemy of Iran, to Shia government and ally was a huge catalyst. SA is being challenged 'in the region' by Iran and growing Shia Islam influence.
The question was who would end up worse. This all started because SA brutally repressed it's own Arab Spring uprising, the very thing that countries like France, UK and US toppled Gaddafi for in Libya. Saudi Arabia clamped down before it became full blown like it has in Syria and just executed the reformist cleric on charges of terrorism. This in turn led to their embassy being stormed and burned in Iran.
Saudi Arabia has the dominant military in the region (save for Israel), and they'll easily defeat Iran should it come to that. But my point is, they're struggling to show that they are a viable nation state in the modern era. Whether they like it or not, Shia influence is growing in the region, more countries are becoming pro-Iran and Saudi Arabia funding of terrorist groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda is backfiring.
You've said yourself Yemen is the biggest border threat and that is precisely why Saudi Arabia is intervening in their civil war because the pro-SA Sunni government was on the verge of collapse and falling to the Houthi rebels who gained a large amount of the territory. I'm speaking in terms of the region, Shia Islam isn't going anywhere, and executions like this only embolden those against Saudi Arabia, whether they are in Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon etc.
As a muslim, I find these events a sign that things are going to get worse. As custodians of the Holy Mosques, Saudi Arabia should act to unite muslims and not divide them. Yes they don't agree with the Shiia but they are still Muslims, our fellow brothers and sisters.
More bloodshed will come to that region. I won't be surprised that this could spark into a major conflict.
More bloodshed will come to that region. I won't be surprised that this could spark into a major conflict.
What? It's a Sunni vs Shiite thing as it has always been. When Pakistani Shiites are being killed, and Bahraini Shiites are being oppressed, and Yemeni Shiites are being bombed; the one common denominator has been that the oppressors are Sunni. The Shiites in Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Iraq, etc are all Arabs. So calling it an Arab versus Persian conflict makes no sense at all.
No country is stupid enough to start a war over one dead civilian.
How is Iran any less bloody than SA?
Patrick Bateman
Member
Both governments suck. But I highly doubt that they will go against each other in the open.
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