Support NeoGAF

[PBY]

I guarantee you people at Microsoft are delighted by this news. They've been beating the "new, open Microsoft" drum for a few years now, and there's evidence of it being used as a mindshare weapon against their competitor. Couldn't be more of a vindication of their internal philosophy.

I kind of thinks that's good though. It worked for Sony at the start of this generation.

Pro consumer moves should be rewarded.

 

[8byte]

I don't see how it's different for Ms or Rocket league to offer a feature their users want that will drive engagement and sales up.

Neither are doing because it's the dream, they are doing it because it makes sense to put their games on more platforms and give every platform a wealthy userbase.

Because MS is trying to tie people into their XBL ecosystem. Hell, we don't even know if the Switch version will have purchased through Nintendo or through an in-game store that runs through XBL. There are a lot of questioned unanswered but everyone here is just going all "customer is always right" and ignoring any and all possibilities for the sake of outrage and entitlement.

By the same logic in this thread, I should also be allowed to enjoy Hulu content on my Netflix app and buy Google Play apps via the Apple App Store.

I mean, it's only fair and right to the consumer.

 

[Liliana Eileen]

I guarantee you people at Microsoft are delighted by this news. They've been beating the "new, open Microsoft" drum for a few years now, and there's evidence of it being used as a mindshare weapon against their competitor. Couldn't be more of a vindication of their internal philosophy.

Stop.

 

[TheFatMan]

I think the big thing people are forgetting is Microsoft wants users on other platforms to sign in with an Xbox Live account to crossplay.

Why on Earth would Sony want their users creating accounts on there competitions service?

And ask yourself this, if Sony came back with "Sure but they will log in on the Xbox with a Sony account instead" do you really think MS would be ok with that?

....the answer you're looking for is fuck no.

 

[HueyFreeman]

Can't wait to read your list....do tell.

Like what?

Lack of PS store refunds
Poorly implemented/expensive backwards compatibility compared to the competition
Blocking cross platform play

These are 3 relatively consumer-unfriendly positions (I won't use the silly and much overused term "anticonsumer")

 

[CookTrain]

Because MS is trying to tie people into their XBL ecosystem. Hell, we don't even know if the Switch version will have purchased through Nintendo or through an in-game store that runs through XBL. There are a lot of questioned unanswered but everyone here is just going all "customer is always right" and ignoring any and all possibilities for the sake of outrage and entitlement.

By the same logic in this thread, I should also be allowed to enjoy Hulu content on my Netflix app and buy Google Play apps via the Apple App Store.

I mean, it's only fair and right to the consumer.

Even though your analogy is unrelated, you can get Google apps on the Apple store, so that's a weird thing people keep going back to.

And we do know about how you'll buy the Switch version, because it's already available. You buy it though the eShop.

I feel like you're intentionally trying to muddy the waters now with deliberate obtuseness.

 

[Mael]

If you're against Sony for not allowing crossplay and want them to go against their profits and business interests, you should be against Microsoft for not allowing Minecraft updates for millions of people that purchased the PS4 version.

Where the hell are you getting that they're dropping support of the ps4 version?

 

[timetokill]

If you're against Sony for not allowing crossplay and want them to go against their profits and business interests, you should be against Microsoft for not allowing Minecraft updates for millions of people that purchased the PS4 version.

No.

PS4 owners got the Minecraft they paid for. Updates are gravy, not guaranteed with purchase.

You have to realize this is a new version of Minecraft. It has certain requirements, ones that everyone is willing or happy to meet, except for Sony. So you're asking for MS to help updating a legacy edition of a product.

In addition, doing so requires significant investment and resources, whereas for Sony to play ball it requires essentially nothing of them.

In reality PS4 minecraft owners should be furious at Sony for preventing them from getting the new version of the game for free.

 

[Mael]

Because MS is trying to tie people into their XBL ecosystem. Hell, we don't even know if the Switch version will have purchased through Nintendo or through an in-game store that runs through XBL. There are a lot of questioned unanswered but everyone here is just going all "customer is always right" and ignoring any and all possibilities for the sake of outrage and entitlement.

By the same logic in this thread, I should also be allowed to enjoy Hulu content on my Netflix app and buy Google Play apps via the Apple App Store.

I mean, it's only fair and right to the consumer.

I can buy Minecraft on Switch right now on the eshop.
I sure as hell only need a Nintendo account to buy and play the game.
Heck someone can make an account on my Switch and play it if I buy it.

 

[CookTrain]

PS4 owners got the Minecraft they paid for. Updates are gravy, not guaranteed with purchase.

Updates are also not going anywhere. 4J is maintaining their update schedule exactly as before.

 

[timetokill]

Updates are also not going anywhere. 4J is maintaining their update schedule exactly as before.

What I mean is updates to the new graphics system, which afaik is only on the Better Together new version.

Also that version will inevitably be phased out, even if they don't do so immediately.

 

[Hockeymac18]

I think the big thing people are forgetting is Microsoft wants users on other platforms to sign in with an Xbox Live account to crossplay.

Why on Earth would Sony want their users creating accounts on there competitions service?

And ask yourself this, if Sony came back with "Sure but they will log in on the Xbox with a Sony account instead" do you really think MS would be ok with that?

....the answer you're looking for is fuck no.

I mean that's Sony's prerogative and business decision to make. But they can't say "no" and then get upset when their version gets left behind since it will become legacy.

This kind of thing happens all of the time in the software space.

 

[CookTrain]

What I mean is updates to the new graphics system, which afaik is only on the Better Together new version

Aye, true, but people act like PS4 Edition is being taken out back and shot, when really it's maintaining the same just-off-Java schedule as always.

Look at that. Illagers, Totem of Undying, Status Effects, Coloured Beds. Marvellous.

 

[Fisty]

Stop.

Yeah Microsoft has never instituted official practices that undermine their competition while still painting themselves as the good guy in the media with PR. That poster should definitely stop.

Hey everybody, MS wants everyone to play Minecraft together because love and butterflies and puppy kisses. They don't like money and marketshare anymore.

 

[Mael]

Yeah Microsoft has never instituted official practices that undermine their competition while still painting themselves as the good guy in the media with PR. That poster should definitely stop.

And thank god that CEO is long gone now.

 

[BocoDragon]

Stop.

What?

I made a pretty dry observation.

 

[LCGeek]

Because MS is trying to tie people into their XBL ecosystem. Hell, we don't even know if the Switch version will have purchased through Nintendo or through an in-game store that runs through XBL. There are a lot of questioned unanswered but everyone here is just going all "customer is always right" and ignoring any and all possibilities for the sake of outrage and entitlement.

By the same logic in this thread, I should also be allowed to enjoy Hulu content on my Netflix app and buy Google Play apps via the Apple App Store.

I mean, it's only fair and right to the consumer.

I would agree but sadly consumers haven't recognized the need not to be charged by middle for basically the same content over and over. I say that double and triple dipping on various gaming products. Don't ask people to accept or tolerate the nickel and diming rat race the industry has become same for movies.

Fair and right never matter until the consumer learns that and answers with their wallet and a reasonable complaint not much will change nor about now nor should it.

 

[Lifeline]

despite being fundamental to the entire update

But it's not.

You can have better graphics without crossplay,

You can have DLC without crossplay even though it won't transfer to other versions. If you want it to transfer you can do it too (pretty easy way to do it by tying the DLC to your account, like Blizzard does for Overwatch)

You can have a dedicated server for PS4 gamers without crossplay.

Nothing they showed is "fundamental".

Where the hell are you getting that they're dropping support of the ps4 version?

I didn't say drop support did I? Stop with this strawmen shit, you know what I'm referring to.

So you're asking for MS to help updating a legacy edition of a product.

In addition, doing so requires significant investment and resources, whereas for Sony to play ball it requires essentially nothing of them.

Congratulations, you found my point.

MS can't support the PS4 version and make "significant investment" into the sony version. Even though they're taking profits from the PS4 version of Minecraft.

But ya'll expect Sony to give up their market leader benefits. Lose their advantage of having the largest console playerbase. Give up on the lost sales from people wanting to be on the same place as their friends. And help out their biggest competitor in the console business.

Like you can't be that dense to not see the hypocrisy.

 

[TheFatMan]

I mean that's Sony's prerogative and business decision to make. But they can't say "no" and then get upset when their version gets left behind since it will become legacy.

This kind of thing happens all of the time in the software space.

This is true. But I don't think Sony has said anything about being mad lol. Just saying, that's just people on these forums saying that.

 

[Alienfan]

Because MS is trying to tie people into their XBL ecosystem. Hell, we don't even know if the Switch version will have purchased through Nintendo or through an in-game store that runs through XBL. There are a lot of questioned unanswered but everyone here is just going all "customer is always right" and ignoring any and all possibilities for the sake of outrage and entitlement.

By the same logic in this thread, I should also be allowed to enjoy Hulu content on my Netflix app and buy Google Play apps via the Apple App Store.

I mean, it's only fair and right to the consumer.

Yes we do, Phil said they're selling it on the Nintendo store just like any other game. Two, Xbox Live isn't the issue, because Rocket League isn't using it and Sony still said no. Your analogy isn't correct, because Microsoft aren't literally porting over Xbox Live to another console. Xbox Live runs in the background just like Blizzards, EAs, or Square Exix's online login in portals do on their PS4 games. They're not breaking any rules there, the only rule they are breaking is cross play.

 

[Just_myles]

I don't think they're comfortable giving up all of those metrics about their users to a third party company?

 

[Quotient]

Cross play does sound fantastic but as i understand it will be bare bones, no voice chat, no party system, no griefing etc, as those are specific to each platform holder.

So far we know of 2 games that are being blocked for cross-play - minecraft and rocket league. Do we know anything about the games coming out for the holiday season like CoD, Destiny 2 etc. Right now this is getting a lot of attention but i wonder if it may just became a niche feature. I guess only time will tell.

 

[CookTrain]

But it's not.

You can have better graphics without crossplay,

You can have DLC without crossplay even though it won't transfer to other versions. If you want it to transfer you can do it too (pretty easy way to do it by tying the DLC to your account, like Blizzard does for Overwatch)

You can have a dedicated server for PS4 gamers without crossplay.

Nothing they showed is "fundamental".

You're quite literally asking to have your cake and eat it too. You want be separate but included. You can't have an individual slice of a unified code base, because that defeats the entire purpose. You're still getting your updates from 4J, that's your Bedrock spin off made especially for PS4.

 

[8byte]

I can buy Minecraft on Switch right now on the eshop.
I sure as hell only need a Nintendo account to buy and play the game.
Heck someone can make an account on my Switch and play it if I buy it.

I'm talking specifically about Add-on content.

Do we know or won't change with the new build?

Also, to the poster who said I'm trying to muddy the waters: no. I'm bringing up additional points of possible contention, sure, but in no way am I intentionally misleading anyone.

I'd love crossplay, but I'm not so disillusioned as to think that it's as cut-and-dry as MS or Psyonix are leading us to believe.

 

[99Luffy]

I think the big thing people are forgetting is Microsoft wants users on other platforms to sign in with an Xbox Live account to crossplay.

Why on Earth would Sony want their users creating accounts on there competitions service?

And ask yourself this, if Sony came back with "Sure but they will log in on the Xbox with a Sony account instead" do you really think MS would be ok with that?

....the answer you're looking for is fuck no.

Doesnt DC universe on Xbox use a Sony login?

 

[hanspampel]

I don't think they're comfortable giving up all of those metrics about their users to a third party company?

huh?
they do this already

Activision knows who bought and is playing CoD on Ps4
same does every other publisher / dev

 

[Lifeline]

You're quite literally asking to have your cake and eat it too. You want be separate but included. You can't have an individual slice of a unified code base, because that defeats the entire purpose. You're still getting your updates from 4J, that's your Bedrock spin off made especially for PS4.

Again, you're completely missing my point. Even after I made it pretty obvious in the post you even quoted.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I kind of thinks that's good though. It worked for Sony at the start of this generation.

Pro consumer moves should be rewarded.

Exactly, even if it bites them later. It's up to consumers to make things like this as standard as possible if we like it even when it might not be the most beneficial thing for whatever company isn't on top.

Thing is, Sony might not be on top forever, so eventually this may benefit them just as much as it would MS, Nintendo etc now and vice versa.

When looked at this way, this is actually a good thing for the industry as a whole.

 

[CookTrain]

Again, you're completely missing my point. Even after I made it pretty obvious in the post you even quoted.

Let me go back through it then. You want a version of Minecraft specifically for PS4, but that isn't the 4J version and that isn't the Bedrock version?

 

[sflufan]

The PC gaming community extends its welcome for crossplay opportunities to all of our console bretheren.


Especially for shooters! We REALLY want to crossplay you guys for those!

 

[TheFatMan]

Doesnt DC universe on Xbox use a Sony login?

I mean I had to google it but the answer appears to be no, you don't. Your account is linked to your PSN login, but not the Xbox version. Which is why the game has no cross play and can't transfer between the two.

I've never played it, I'm basing that answer on the FAQ on there webpage.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

But it's not.

You can have better graphics without crossplay,

You can have DLC without crossplay even though it won't transfer to other versions. If you want it to transfer you can do it too (pretty easy way to do it by tying the DLC to your account, like Blizzard does for Overwatch)

You can have a dedicated server for PS4 gamers without crossplay.

Nothing they showed is "fundamental".

The "unified" part of "unified codebase" seems quite fundamental to me.

 

[Tumle]

You're quite literally asking to have your cake and eat it too. You want be separate but included. You can't have an individual slice of a unified code base, because that defeats the entire purpose. You're still getting your updates from 4J, that's your Bedrock spin off made especially for PS4.

Uh I thought we where fighting for the consumers?
I baught minecraft for PS4.. so I should be mad that Sony doesn't want crossplay? Sure
But I should feel quite alright for Microsoft screwing me over for what Sony is doing?
I'm a consumer for both Sony and Microsoft.. but apparently crossplay is holding better graphics back so that's also Sony fault.. I'm thinking this topic has been hijacked by fanboys of both sides

 

[mreddie]

So Sony is Hawaii?

 

[Mael]

I didn't say drop support did I? Stop with this strawmen shit, you know what I'm referring to.

It's what you're implying.
They're still providing significant support and updates to the ps4 version.
They're just not getting the Realms/new Illumination update.

I'm talking specifically about Add-on content.

Do we know or won't change with the new build?

As it is you can buy the add on content on Switch through the eshop.
What the new update bring is an additional layer which will allow you to basically redeem for free addons you bought elsewhere.
They've just automated the crossbuy option to a certain extent, it probably just requires a lil handshake for the eshop to let Mojang provide the informationt that the product is free for the Switch owner.
It's not as complicated as it seems.

Also, to the poster who said I'm trying to muddy the waters: no. I'm bringing up additional points of possible contention, sure, but in no way am I intentionally misleading anyone.

I'd love crossplay, but I'm not so disillusioned as to think that it's as cut-and-dry as MS or Psyonix are leading us to believe.

It's 2017, it's probably as easy as they claim it is.
We've made incredible progress in networking with the cloud compared to not even 10 years ago.

 

[CookTrain]

Uh I thought we where fighting for the consumers?
I baught minecraft for PS4.. so I should be mad that Sony doesn't want crossplay? Sure
But I should feel quite alright for Microsoft screwing me over for what Sony is doing?
I'm a consumer for both Sony and Microsoft.. but apparently crossplay is holding better graphics back so that's also Sony fault.. I'm thinking this topic has been hijacked by fanboys of both sides

Walk me through what you want then. Explain to me how it would work. "Microsoft should just... do it as well" means nothing.

 

[ChrisD]

People here on Sony:

Sony should go against their own business interests as the market leader and give up their server population and large userbase benefits. Even though console sales have an exponential effect due to new buyers wanting to play with their friends. They should give up all those potential sales up because it's better for the gamers.

They should ignore that this move will give a lifeline to their competitor and put them in a tougher position for next-gen by making Microsoft a stronger competitor.

They should make a move unseen in any other industry by helping their #1 competitor and actively work against their own success.

People here on Microsoft:

You can't seriously expect Microsoft to pay the money to make updates for Minecraft without Crossplay. Even though Minecraft was getting PS4 updates before, Minecraft is a small franchise that can no longer afford it.

Microsoft can take the profits they get from the 3rd largest online community of Minecraft, but they can't fund more updates or dedicated servers for it.

Who cares about the PS4 Minecraft gamers, Microsoft should just leave them behind.

At first I was believing ya'll to be genuinely against this Sony crossplay thing and having some valid points. But it's obvious that this is just some fanboy hypocrisy shit.

If you're against Sony for not allowing crossplay and want them to go against their profits and business interests, you should be against Microsoft for not allowing Minecraft updates for millions of people that purchased the PS4 version.

I personally am against both decisions, but understand why both of them were made. I don't expect large companies to work against their own interests and help their competitors.

I don't even own an Xbox past the 360, don't have Windows 10, and have no other Microsoft devices aside from said 360. Though I DO own a PS4 (and Vita which I love; does that clear up any stupid "Microsoft fanboyism" I may otherwise have?) that I will not be buying any future crossplay titles on, despite the fact I prefer the console over my Switch.

There is simply no reason not to get any version other than the loner.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Because MS is trying to tie people into their XBL ecosystem. Hell, we don't even know if the Switch version will have purchased through Nintendo or through an in-game store that runs through XBL. There are a lot of questioned unanswered but everyone here is just going all "customer is always right" and ignoring any and all possibilities for the sake of outrage and entitlement.

By the same logic in this thread, I should also be allowed to enjoy Hulu content on my Netflix app and buy Google Play apps via the Apple App Store.

I mean, it's only fair and right to the consumer.

Do you even really care or do you just have to support your console manufacturer of choice no matter what? Enjoy arguing and sounding stupid in the process? What do you gain here?

Btw, do you even play Minecraft? If so, hopefully you're on PS4.

 

[Lifeline]

The "unified" part of "unified codebase" seems quite fundamental to me.

You can have a unified codebase and disable crossplay for one. You're acting like crossplay is built into the graphics engine or something.

 

[Z3M0G]

If MS's idea of promoting cross play last year was to require XBL login on all platforms, you cant blame Sony for saying no. Nintendo does not have much to give up in that regard. Heck... MS is doing them a favor.

All cross play games should work like Rocketleague! Game company servers that authenticate through PSN / XBL / etc logins.

 

[Just_myles]

huh?
they do this already

Activision knows who bought and is playing CoD on Ps4
same does every other publisher / dev

Ok, I wasn't sure and was only looking for a reason why they would not want to do this. I mean, collectively the 3rd party will know who is doing what on which console either way. You're right. I can't conceive of an issue at least from a market share stand point.

Security?

 

[Fisty]

huh?
they do this already

Activision knows who bought and is playing CoD on Ps4
same does every other publisher / dev

Yeah but now it's a direct competitor who is asking them to give up a huge selling point on their product and a bunch of their user data

 

[Fuchsdh]

It also seems to be leaving competing PC platforms out in the cold, who will be left with the legacy version, so much for the unified code base.

Java is and always has been a millstone around Minecraft's neck. At present, they're still supporting it, but why would they remain tied to the worst-performing version of the game?

 

[Mael]

You can have a unified codebase and disable crossplay for one. You're acting like crossplay is built into the graphics engine or something.

For free?
Get real the update is free for current customers because it opens new monetization avenues for Mojang.
Sony is basically cutting just that.
They're not offering the update to everyone owning the platform either.

 

[Magwik]

Yeah but now it's a direct competitor who is asking them to give up a huge selling point on their product and a bunch of their user data

And why should I or anyone else give a shit about this

 

[Hatefilled Vengeance]

Props for holding the industry back!

Glad they're getting called out on it.

 

[Shin]

fyi .001% of 60 million is 600.

It was RNG out of my ass

 

[MugiwaraCole]

And what if you do not own an Xbox but have friends that do?

9/10 times you'd just be shit out of luck.

I think people think this is gonna become some normal thing among third party devs, and that's not really the case. Rocket League, Minecraft, FFXIV, sure.

PS4 and Xbox players aren't gonna be playing Anthem and Destiny with each other.

 

[Lifeline]

I don't even own an Xbox past the 360, don't have Windows 10, and have no other Microsoft devices aside from said 360. Though I DO own a PS4 (and Vita which I love; does that clear up any stupid "Microsoft fanboyism" I may otherwise have?) that I will not be buying any future crossplay titles on, despite the fact I prefer the console over my Switch.

There is simply no reason not to get any version other than the loner.

Okay. I don't see how any of this has anything to do with what I said.

Let me go back through it then. You want a version of Minecraft specifically for PS4, but that isn't the 4J version and that isn't the Bedrock version?

I don't want anything. I said at the end of the post I understand why Microsoft did it. All I'm trying to show is the hypocrisy.

I made it pretty clear here: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=241024173

For free?
Get real the update is free for current customers because it opens new monetization avenues for Mojang.
Sony is basically cutting just that.
They're not offering the update to everyone owning the platform either.

You're acting like its impossible for them sell DLC on the PS4 now.

 

[Mael]

You're acting like its impossible for them sell DLC on the PS4 now.

Did you miss the subscription feature they announced with the new version too?
A subscription for what? The fucking crossplatform Realms that are the point of the update.