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School administrators apologize for menu of fried chicken, cornbread & watermelon

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People who live in the present day are descended from people who lived in the past, and their culture originates in things they were taught by their ancestors?
And that somehow negates that those were still just southern foods, or the ~150 years since in which those are just common southern foods?

Yes, it was used by some idiots to lampoon blacks, that doesn't change the fact that it's just southern food that most people in the region have always eaten regardless of race...

Where do you think they got it from, homeboy?

Edit: Wow. Youre even more ignorant then i thought.

Ignorance would indicate that I don't know the history involved... the fact is that I do, and that's why it makes no damned sense.
 
They could've done a caribbean theme menu like Jamaican/Cuban cuisine. I think what people are really upset at is that the 3 of them are all serve together on the same day.
 
How is that offensive, it's part of their heritage. We're doing the same thing where I work and no one is offended.

Here blacks let us serve you this food a) my middle to upper class uniformed upbringing leads me to believe you like or that b) reminds you of all the shit your ancestors had to eat in order to not starve.

Get it now?

Also you cant lump all blacks into five food items. Im jamaician. We dont eat any of that shit. I dont see ackee and saltfish. I dont see some nice steamed red snapper. And i def dont see any oxtail. Black isnt cornbread and fried chicken. Its like saying all whites are essetntial irish or italian. Its insulting and grossly misinformed.
 
Sounds like a tasty meal to me... Also, most "soul food" is just southern food in general... I've never understood why people decided to tie it to a race...

A lot of soul food can trace it's history back to native African staples: Grits (Fufu), Sweet Potatoes (yams), Peanuts (groundnuts), Rice, Black-eyed peas, and Okra, are all food products the slaves would have known. The history of pork products in soul food is pretty interesting too (it's also the source of the saying "living high on the hog"), they basically got the parts the White Slave Owner didn't want (the feet, intestines, neck, etc.) while the owner got the hams, etc.
 
How is that offensive, it's part of their heritage. We're doing the same thing where I work and no one is offended.

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Ah. A fellow jamaician.

-_-




Here blacks let us serve you this food a) my middle to upper class uniformed upbringing leads me to believe you like or that b) reminds you of all the shit your ancestors had to eat in order to not starve.

Get it now?

Also you cant lump all blacks into five food items. Im jamaician. We dont eat any of that shit. I dont see ackee and saltfish. I dont see some nice steamed red snapper. And i def dont see any oxtail. Black isnt cornbread and fried chicken. Its like saying all whites are essetntial irish or italian. Its insulting and grossly misinformed.

boiled eggs > ackee
 
It would literally take you ten minutes or less to, for example, read the Wikipedia entry on Soul Food and have a better explanation than I'm going to give you.

Yeah... that's the Southern food I grew up on... There's really no difference other than who cooks it... My white grandpa kept pickled pigs feed and eggs in the fridge...

If anything, it's just the food that southern people of modest means eat and has nothing to do with race, at least not in the last 150 years.

A lot of soul food can trace it's history back to native African staples: Grits (Fufu), Sweet Potatoes (yams), Peanuts (groundnuts), Rice, Black-eyed peas, and Okra, are all food products the slaves would have known. The history of pork products in soul food is pretty interesting too (it's also the source of the saying "living high on the hog"), they basically got the parts the White Slave Owner didn't want (the feet, intestines, neck, etc.) while the owner got the hams, etc.

I realize that, but it doesn't mean that those aren't common southern foods that poor people of all races ate and still eat.

It had more to do with the dividing lines between the "haves" and "have-nots" than race. It's just that due to slavery (which by-to-way, only 5 - 20% of the households in the south even had slaves, most were either too poor or didn't believe in slavery. (The American Nation 14th Edition, Carnes) Those poor farmers had the same types of diets as the slaves because they couldn't afford any better.
 
How is that offensive, it's part of their heritage. We're doing the same thing where I work and no one is offended.

I'm gonna go out on a crazy limb here and suggest that maybe you're not actually qualified to speak for the feelings of every single person at the place you work.

If anything, it's just the food that southern people of modest means eat and has nothing to do with race, at least not in the last 150 years.

There is not really anything in American history or culture which has "nothing to do with race."

Soul food is associated with black culture because there's a lineage by which it was handed down in black families living in the south. It combines native foods from the Americas with foods of African origin and stuff from Europe. Many of the recipes and dishes commonly considered soul food were created by black slaves and for some of them, if poor whites eat them now, it's in part because they became more broadly known after originating in black culture. Others had a more general origin and have been part of different Southern cuisines for a long time.

(Everything I just summarized there is in the Wikipedia entry I already linked you to.)
 
Not true. No one's talking about the chicken and cornbread. We're talking about the watermelon. Did you miss the pictures on the last page?

For BHM that fruit being used in light of this situation is offensive.

Well if it's just the watermelon I've nothing to argue. That was stupid and as I said I don't want to defend the school.

I just see this argument pop up every year and it usually revolves around whether or not we should "respect" these cooking traditions.

What would your menu for black history month be?

My favorite traditional soul food dish is Lima Beans (prepared with Ham Hock), over white rice.

Probably couldn't be prepared for a school lunch though.

I didn't know that Ox Tail was a Jamaican staple. The more you know.
 
Yeah... that's the Southern food I grew up on... There's really no difference other than who cooks it... My white grandpa kept pickled pigs feed and eggs in the fridge...

If anything, it's just the food that southern people of modest means eat and has nothing to do with race, at least not in the last 150 years.

Hmm...when did slavery end? Bought a buck fifty ago. When did slavery start? Hmm. Thats what we are talking about, man. Jesus. What cant you get? Where the fuck dl you think gramps learned it from. His food was shit and the food thst his slaves were making was good as fuck. Lincoln outlawed slavery and he copped the recipe.

150 years ago slavery was JUST about to be abolished. You do know that, right? Before then blacks of enslaved means were cooking that shit long before your grandpa came into being.
 
Well if it's just the watermelon I've nothing to argue. That was stupid and as I said I don't want to defend the school.

I just see this argument pop up every year and it usually revolves around whether or not we should "respect" these cooking traditions.



My favorite traditional soul food dish is Lima Beans (prepared with Ham Hock), over white rice.

Probably couldn't be prepared for a school lunch though.

I didn't know that Ox Tail was a Jamaican staple. The more you know.

Detecting sarcasm. It isnt a jamaican staple. I just only know jamaicians to eat it. Ackee and saltfish with fried/boiled dumplings is our staple.
 
Hmm...when did slavery end? Bought a buck fifty ago. When did slavery start? Hmm. Thats what we are talking about, man. Jesus. What cant you get? Where the fuck dl you think gramps learned it from. His food was shit and the food thst his slaves were making was good as fuck. Lincoln outlawed slavery and he copped the recipe.

Southern Food/Cooking/SoulFood is as American as Budweiser. Nothing wrong with knowing the horrid history of your food Nostremitus.

edit;

If i was on the school lunch board, and wanted to do this in a trollier way, i'd have gone with lobster.
 
Detecting sarcasm. It isnt a jamaican staple. I just only know jamaicians to eat it. Ackee and saltfish with fried/boiled dumplings is our staple.

I wasn't being sarcastic or meaning to offend. I was just surprised that when brought up, you would point to Jamaica instantly. I always considered it mostly a soul food thing.
 
Considering school lunch menus are probably decided by dartboard or some equivalent I was coming into the thread expecting this to be an over-reaction. Learning that the menu was deliberately planned in response to Black History Month though is just straight hilarious. Dat ignorance :P
 
Southern Food/Cooking/SoulFood is as American as Budweiser. Nothing wrong with knowing the horrid history of your food Nostremitus.

I never said I didn't know the history, but this is like saying Burgers are German cuisine because beef was first ground because of some bad cuts of meat from Hamburg. Or spaghetti is a Central American dish because that's were the tomatoes used for the pasta sauce originated...

Just because it's rightfully associated, doesn't mean it should be labelled as primary.

BTW, cornbread, "hushpuppies" and hominy (which are ground into grits) are Native American.

(Edit: Maybe I grew up with a lot of this because I'm 1/4 Cherokee... dunno.)
 
they server mexican food at work on cinco de mayo
 
BTW, cornbread, "hushpuppies" and hominy (which are ground into grits) are Native American.

so have you actually lost the point, or are you just here to act as contrarian?

Origins of southern foods be damned, there's no reason to associate watermelon and fried chicken with black history month.
 
I understand how the stereotypes being evoked here are problematic.

What should they have served instead for a Black History lunch? Or is the whole idea inherently problematic?

A lot of the ugly history of the watermelon stereotype and imagery has already been posted, not sure if this has too:

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/question/may08/

"As we talked, I told the group how my own life had been poisoned by the stereotype. Just a few days earlier, I told them, I'd found myself in a familiar internal debate over whether to take a slice of watermelon from a luncheon fruit tray. In the pause before my fork stabbed a couple of slices, I worried anew that white people looking on would follow the crooked path of bigoted logic that says if one stereotype is validated, all the others must be true."2

Most Americans would probably be surprised to learn that African Americans are underrepresented as watermelon eaters. Blacks represent about 13 percent of the United States population yet only account for 11 percent of the watermelon consumption.


This shows a situation where someone who likes watermelon nevertheless was hurt by the stereotype, an example of why "but it's good food!" misses the point.


The combination of menu items shows that lazy, stereotypical ideas were the extent of their thought process. They didn't bother to educate themselves or ask advice. When they did ask, "Libby talked to members of the Black Student Union on campus and the students suggested that the watermelon be taken off the menu."

My basic take is that, if you are going to be lazy, stereotypical, reductionist, and not ask advice, then don't call it a "celebration lunch for Black History Month." Doing so is insulting. "Here, all you need to know about BHM is the stereotypes we know."

Even without the watermelon, I think simply having fried chicken would be similar. It would just turn out that that stereotype was less offensive to many people so they would have been luckier. Brings to mind Fuzzy Zoeller and Sergio Garcia's remarks, where I suspect the reaction would have been more heated if they used "watermelon" instead, even though the mind set would be the same.


The first advice I would have given them is:

1. Think about why you are including items.

Tacos were invented in Mexico. Modern pizza was invented in Italy. Were modern fried chicken, cornbread, and watermelon invented by African Americans? Are you including them for that reason, or a different reason, and if so what other reason?

If they thought about it, I can't believe they would include watermelon. They might still have included fried chicken, but most likely along with other items so that it wouldn't appear they just chose the first stereotypes that popped into their head. By that point, they would already have been thinking about where these foods came from, and why they were associated with African Americans.

2. Ask when you don't know something.

We're all ignorant of many things. We don't all think "eh, watermelons are associated with African Americans in my mind, not sure how that started, but let's use it for the Black History Month celebration." That's a good time to ask somebody.
 
Southern Food/Cooking/SoulFood is as American as Budweiser. Nothing wrong with knowing the horrid history of your food Nostremitus.

edit;

If i was on the school lunch board, and wanted to do this in a trollier way, i'd have gone with lobster.

I was just reading the Wiki and the linked article said fried chicken was introduced by the Scots and chitterlings were a food of poor people in medieval England. Mac and cheese first appeared in a British cookbook apparently. To Americans its American, it was definitely popularised in the US but probably a lot of that stuff is familiar to other cultures as well.
 
So what are you..but that's what they...what...why...*does not compute*

It shouldn't be associated with Black History month not only because of the crass stereotypes some bigots came up with in the past, but also because these foods have always been enjoyed by people of all races in the south.

I was just reading the Wiki and the linked article said fried chicken was introduced by the Scots and chitterlings were a food of poor people in medieval England. Mac and cheese first appeared in a British cookbook apparently. To Americans its American, it was definitely popularised in the US but probably a lot of that stuff is familiar to other cultures as well.

Exactly. It's the food of poor people, regardless of race.
 
Thatis my point.

Let me bring you back to your original statement:

Sounds like a tasty meal to me... Also, most "soul food" is just southern food in general... I've never understood why people decided to tie it to a race...

So just so we're clear, are you saying that you don't understand why racists have applied these foods to "black heritage" or that you don't understand why people find the association racist in the first place?

Both of these questions have been answered multiple times in the thread, but I'm curious which one applies to you.
 
It shouldn't be associated with Black History month not only because of the crass stereotypes some bigots came up with in the past, but also because these foods have always been enjoyed by people of all races in the south.

This is what I'm getting down to here: Who here does NOT like fried chicken?
 
This is what I'm getting down to here: Who here does NOT like fried chicken?

We have not disagreed at all.

So just so we're clear, are you saying that you don't understand why racists have applied these foods to "black heritage" or that you don't understand why people find the association racist in the first place?

Both of these questions have been answered multiple times in the thread, but I'm curious which one applies to you.

I don't know why racists applied it to Black History in the first place, or why they're called soul food. As mentioned above, Fried chicken was introduced by the Scottish and cornbread is Native American, both are and have been eaten by people of all races since America has existed...
 
So I guess no tacos for mexican festivities?

This is dumb, is just food. And it sounds good

If someone called you a wetback would you be okay? If Americans made up depictions and cartoons of Mexicans with funny faces, wearing panchos, and eating nothing but Tacos for half a century, would it be okay? No, it isn't. The fact is we all love fried chicken and cornbread and watermelon. It was unfortunate that they stereotyped blacks this way. There are many more foods that African American eat depending on what country their heritage is from. This was beyond ridiculous. This was ignorance beyond comprehension coming from a respected educational system.
 
It shouldn't be associated with Black History month not only because of the crass stereotypes some bigots came up with in the past, but also because these foods have always been enjoyed by people of all races in the south.



Exactly. It's the food of poor people, regardless of race.

You think that whites in the antebellum south were eating stomach linings?
 
I like all of those things, this idea was stupid but I hope no one feels they shouldn't eat something due to stupid stereotypes, as they all taste delicious :p
 
I don't know why racists applied it to Black History in the first place, or why they're called soul food. As mentioned above, Fried chicken was introduced by the Scottish and cornbread is Native American, both are and have been eaten by people of all races since America has existed...

Watermelon has been covered pretty thoroughly, so lets move on to fried chicken:

Where Did That Fried Chicken Stereotype Come From?

Sports-talk radio was abuzz Wednesday morning with some comments that Sergio Garcia, the professional golfer, made about his frequent foil, Tiger Woods.

"We'll have him 'round every night," Garcia said. "We will serve fried chicken."

The comment came after Garcia was asked if he would invite his rival, with whom he has a frosty relationship, to his house during next month's U.S. Open. Woods responded to Garcia's tweets on Twitter: "The comment that was made wasn't silly. It was wrong, hurtful and clearly inappropriate ... I'm confident that there is real regret that the remark was made." (Garcia offered a textbook nonapology apology.)

Wait. This again?

This black-people-and-fried-chicken thing is really old — it's not even the first time a professional golfer made a joke about fried chicken and Tiger Woods.

What is it with this stereotype about black people loving fried chicken?

I asked Claire Schmidt for help. She's a professor at the University of Missouri who studies race and folklore. Schmidt said chickens had long been a part of Southern diets, but they had particular utility for slaves. They were cheap, easy to feed and a good source of meat.

But then, Schmidt says, came Birth of a Nation.

D.W. Griffith's seminal and supremely racist 1915 silent movie about the supposedly heroic founding of the Ku Klux Klan was a huge sensation when it debuted. One scene in the three-hor features a group of actors portraying shiftless black elected officials acting rowdy and crudely in a legislative hall. (The message to the audience: These are the dangers of letting blacks vote.) Some of the legislators are shown drinking. Others had their feet kicked up on their desks. And one of them was very ostentatiously eating fried chicken.


"That image really solidified the way white people thought of black people and fried chicken," Schmidt said.

Schmidt said that like watermelon, that other food that's been a mainstay in racist depictions of blacks, chicken was also a good vehicle for racism because of the way people eat it. (According to government stats, blacks are underrepresented among watermelon consumers.) "It's a food you eat with your hands, and therefore it's dirty," Schmidt said. "Table manners are a way of determining who is worthy of respect or not."

But why does this idea still hold traction, since fried chicken is clearly a staple of the American diet? Surely, KFC, Popeyes and Church's ain't national chains — and chicken and waffles aren't a brunch staple — because of the supposed culinary obsessions of black folks.

"It's still a way to express racial [contempt] without getting into serious trouble," Schmidt said. (Among the Code Switch team, we've started referring to these types of winking statements as "racist bank shots.")

"How it's possible to be both a taboo and a corporate mainstream thing just shows how complicated race in America is," Schmidt said.

It's also worth citing the great and very NSFW social theorist Dave Chappelle, who quipped that when it comes to race and food, people of color suffer from some real information asymmetry.

"The only reason these things are even an issue is because nobody knows what white people eat," Chappelle said.

So there you go. Is it a staple of Southern cooking? Sure. But the historical context gives it the negative connotations.
 
You think that whites in the antebellum south were eating stomach linings?

I know they were... Not everyone was born into one of the top 5-10% of white plantation families who controlled ~95% of all wealth in the south. The majority of white southerners were incredibly poor and didn't even own slaves. The reason there were so many was because the wealthy upper crust with plantations owned hundreds.

So there you go. Is it a staple of Southern cooking? Sure. But the historical context gives it the negative connotations.

I never denied the historical context created by bigots that made the negative connotations, just that the context they created was based on no logical sense.
 
That was a pretty awful idea but shit
I wish I had this kind of food back in school. One could only eat leftover pizza and shitty chicken patties so many times
 
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