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[phisheep]

This is seriously offensive. The "good ole days" is a grand farce. I'm thankful every day that my kids won't have to grow up in an environment like back then.

Um, I'm not entirely certain what you're referring to here, but I'm definitely a bit uncomfortable with your apparent disparaging of 'back then', unless it's in a particular cultural context. I'm from 'back then' and to be honest the world doesn't seem a whole lot different now - not a whole lot.

 

[Kazerei]

Speaking of the whole "coddling is destroying our children" thing, are there actually any specific instances where the spree killer was overcoddled by their parents? I'm trying to think back to the Aurora, VA Tech, Columbine, etc. shooters, but I don't really know their backgrounds. They certainly had mental problems, but I doubt that was caused by coddling them too much.

 

[GQman2121]

I just saw the photo of the teacher, Victoria, who was killed, but saved her entire class by confronting the shooter and misguiding him away from her kids. Unbelievable bravery and sacrifice.

I can't continue to read or hear about this anymore.

 

[The Technomancer]

The Good Old Days certainly weren't a perfect time but to act like today is somehow better for raising children etc. is a farce. Everything today is worse in general from education to safety.

False and false. Where on earth would you get those ideas? Education rates are up, crime rates are down.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Some things may be different from the 50s, but I think the overall things are basically the same, and some old problems may be gone, but we now have new ones in their place.

Unless you're American and black, in which case, yeah, today's culture would probably be better for raising kids.

 

[Dominican Power]

Are schools going to start ramping up security?

 

[BankaiZaraki]

More weapons found at killer's home???
So it's normal in America for a kindergarten teacher to have more than 3 weapons (including, what looks like an assault rifle)???

Wow!!! Never been to the USA before but if this is normal in America... speechless.

It is normal for people to be avid gun collectors. I myself when I have more money intend to have quite a few firearms myself. However, I've never understood why people buy the AR-15's or something similar to that nature.

 

[Akainu]

I was just thinking about that huckabee thing. What exactly was prayer supposed to do? If they kids were praying would some shield of light come from the heavens blinding those that tried to enter with ill intent?

 

[Eric C]

More weapons found at killer's home???
So it's normal in America for a kindergarten teacher to have more than 3 weapons (including, what looks like an assault rifle)???

Wow!!! Never been to the USA before but if this is normal in America... speechless.

I thought the latest news was, she wasn't a teacher and wasn't even an assistant teacher, and basically wasn't even associated with the school in any way.


Edit

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/n...first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html?_r=0

News reports on Friday suggested that Ms. Lanza had worked at the elementary school, but at a news conference on Saturday, the school superintendent said there was no evidence that Ms. Lanza had ever worked at the school as a full-time or substitute teacher, or in any other capacity.

The authorities said it was not clear why Mr. Lanza went to the school.

 

[BankaiZaraki]

Are schools going to start ramping up security?

I should update my resume. Cold of me to say this but I think private security would pay more than working for a national security company.

 

[CornBurrito]

The Good Old Days certainly weren't a perfect time but to act like today is somehow better for raising children etc. is a farce. Everything today is worse in general from education to safety.

How is safety worse? How is education worse? What are your sources?

 

[Lost Fragment]

How is safety worse? How is education worse? What are your sources?

His ass.

 

[Cloudy]

Are schools going to start ramping up security?

They should. Security is way too lax at public places (besides airports) considering we have one of these shootings every other month or so now.

 

[Tom Penny]

Not sure if posted But Morgan Freemans take which I agree. Why not focus on the victims instead of the piece of shit that did it. Other people have mentioned similar thoughts too. Media sure the hell isn't helping.

" You want to know why these shootings keep happening You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

 

[Dominican Power]

If anything people today are just being overstimulated to the point desensitization.

 

[dorkimoe]

The seven bodies he examined personally had three to 11 wounds each, he said.

Jessssuss. That is a fuckton of shots fired considering they said the shooting lasted 2-3 minutes total. He had insane aim too...or they were executed

 

[oatmeal]

Yesterdays killing spree in Connecticut makes me sick to my stomach. And listening to everyone jump on the gun control bandwagon forces me to ask this question:

What are your children watching on TV?

Tell me the list of the most played games on their Xbox, Playstation or whatever the device of choice is these days. My guess is most of the garbage that they play every single day for hours at a time, is based on killing another person. Do you ever stop to think what effect this has on the minds of our children?
Look in your own home today. What is in their Christmas presents? More games that glorify violence?

I guarantee that I am not even close to a perfect parent, both my daughters will verify that. But I did my best to steer them away from violent movies, games and other influences as long as possible.

How in the world do we expect our children to grow up with compassion for other human beings, when all they do is sit idly in front of a screen killing for hours at a time?

I challenge you to look at what your kids are doing on a daily basis and look at what your own family is doing to prevent violence from saturating our lives.

Sit down today with your children, and families and pray for the families that were shattered by this senseless act of violence.

*sigh*

 

[Cloudy]

Jessssuss. That is a fuckton of shots fired considering they said the shooting lasted 2-3 minutes total. He had insane aim too...or they were executed

Assault rifle vs. fucking first graders in a small space...

 

[oatmeal]

I saw a screenshot of the list of deceased.

8 boys, 18 girls.

 

[CornBurrito]

Truth like a mother fucker

That's a funny way of saying "this is an unsubstantiated opinion I agree with but am unable to back up with any meaningful evidence so I will just call it "Truth" and hope people take the confidence I state this with as evidence."

Maybe I'll pull out some bullshit now. This tragedy was caused because in recent years, society has been teaching people like you that all opinions are equally valid regardless of how well substantiated or grounded in reality they are. It wasn't like that 50 years ago. I have no statistical data for this, nor personal anecdotes. Just anecdotes from the older generation that may or may not be invalid as people tend to view the past in a positive light.

^ Truth like a motherfucker. Truth with a capital T.

(boy, spouting unsubstantiated bullshit is fun)

 

[pargonta]

Not sure if posted But Morgan Freemans take which I agree. Why not focus on the victims instead of the piece of shit that did it. Other people have mentioned similar thoughts too. Media sure the hell isn't helping.

I for one love unraveling the mystery of the mind. I want to know this guy inside and out, having the knowledge of what he actually was allows me to defend against pundits soapboxing and false accusations. I want to know about the guy, and I have the right. it interests me. if we're going to defeat the monster shouldn't we know what the monster was?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I saw a screenshot of the list of deceased.

8 boys, 18 girls.

I believe some of those girls were women who worked at the school.

 

[cajunator]

It is normal for people to be avid gun collectors. I myself when I have more money intend to have quite a few firearms myself. However, I've never understood why people buy the AR-15's or something similar to that nature.

Well in the case of AR15 is sort of like how techno junkies like to buy weird gadgets. AR15s are the technical junkies gun. Personally Im not very fond of them as much anymore because they are kind of a pain in the ass to shoot. Bolt action rifles are so much simpler.

 

[H_Prestige]

Not sure if posted But Morgan Freemans take which I agree. Why not focus on the victims instead of the piece of shit that did it. Other people have mentioned similar thoughts too. Media sure the hell isn't helping.

He was right until the last sentence. Gun control is half of the problem, and the much easier one to solve and the one that will yield quicker results.

 

[oatmeal]

I believe some of those girls were women who worked at the school.

Right. All of the adults killed were women it looked like.

But still.

 

[Risette]

I for one love unraveling the mystery of the mind. I want to know this guy inside and out, having the knowledge of what he actually was allows me to defend against pundits soapboxing and false accusations. I want to know about the guy, and I have the right. it interests me. if we're going to defeat the monster shouldn't we know what the monster was?

That's dangerous territory.

 

[GQman2121]

Assault rifle vs. fucking first graders in a small space...

Fish in a barrel really.

If people honestly think they need an semi-auto assault rifle for home protection or hunting, they need their heads examined. Rifles and shotguns should be the only guns that are legal to own and operate outside of law enforcement. The penalty for possessing a firearm that is not a hunting rifle, or shotgun, would need to be so severe that people would literally have to be crazy to consider committing a crime with one.

 

[Tom Penny]

I for one love unraveling the mystery of the mind. I want to know this guy inside and out, having the knowledge of what he actually was allows me to defend against pundits soapboxing and false accusations. I want to know about the guy, and I have the right. it interests me. if we're going to defeat the monster shouldn't we know what the monster was?

Whatever happened to crazy? Some people are just nuts except everyone wants to put a label on it . There are billions of people on earth. Some are fucked up. Basic law of averages. Why do good people you grow up go one path and some fuck up even though they have better backgrounds? Everyone knows some. Everything doesn't always have a straight answer.

 

[GQman2121]

What ever happened to crazy? Some people are just nuts except everyone wants to put a label on it . There are billions of people on earth. Some are fucked up. Basic law of averages. Why do good people you grow up go one path and some fuck up even though they have better backgrounds?

So we agree, Chris Rock has it right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA

 

[Enco]

Not sure if posted But Morgan Freemans take which I agree. Why not focus on the victims instead of the piece of shit that did it. Other people have mentioned similar thoughts too. Media sure the hell isn't helping.

Totally agree.

People with mental issues largely do stuff like this for fame. They want to be known. If we ignored all killers and stopped putting them in the spotlight, I'm sure this stuff would decrease.

 

[Vilix]

Assault rifle vs. fucking first graders in a small space...

I had heard that he left the assault rifle in the car. Doesn't make much difference anyway. Still so sad.

 

[faceless007]

Whatever happened to crazy? Some people are just nuts except everyone wants to put a label on it . There are billions of people on earth. Some are fucked up. Basic law of averages. Why do good people you grow up go one path and some fuck up even though they have better backgrounds? Everyone knows some. Everything doesn't always have a straight answer.

"Nuts" and "crazy" are neither helpful nor interesting nor meaningful scientific labels for anything.

 

[BankaiZaraki]

Well in the case of AR15 is sort of like how techno junkies like to buy weird gadgets. AR15s are the technical junkies gun. Personally Im not very fond of them as much anymore because they are kind of a pain in the ass to shoot. Bolt action rifles are so much simpler.

I wouldn't know how they shoot. I've only shot handguns.

 

[FamousLastX]

I had heard that he left the assault rifle in the car. Doesn't make much difference anyway. Still so sad.

Not according to the chief ME. I don't think he was really supposed to mention that yet but he kinda seemed to just let it slip out.

 

[cajunator]

Fish in a barrel really.

If people honestly think they need an semi-auto assault rifle for home protection or hunting, they need their heads examined. Rifles and shotguns should be the only guns that are legal to own and operate outside of law enforcement. The penalty for possessing a firearm that is not a hunting rifle, or shotgun, would need to be so severe that people would literally have to be crazy to consider committing a crime with one.

An "assault" rifle is no more dangerous in its legal state than a normal rifle is.
Its pretty much the same kind of gun underneath the jewelry. Theres nothing any more or less dangerous about an Ar15 than a typical rifle. Even uses the same ammo (.223).

 

[Cloudy]

I had heard that he left the assault rifle in the car. Doesn't make much difference anyway. Still so sad.

It was revealed earlier in this thread that that's the only weapon he used. Little kids slaughtered like animals...

 

[dorkimoe]

So one person who got shot survived? They are going to have some severe emotional problems and they are also going to have the best possible clues to helping understand what happened

 

[cajunator]

I wouldn't know how they shoot. I've only shot handguns.

They shoot like a normal rifle does. Small caliber rounds. A lot of handgun calibers are actually larger and more deadly.

 

[pargonta]

That's dangerous territory.

i spose. i'm the guy who enjoyed sociology and psychology in school though, i can't help it. i thoroughly respect the media for keeping that discussion out of the current raw news cycle. for some people, it is an interesting investigative process though.

 

[Cloudy]

There's some family on CNN talking about how their son ran past the shooter after his teacher was shot. Seems implausible to me. Little kids would be frozen in that situation...

 

[Tom Penny]

"Nuts" and "crazy" are neither helpful nor interesting nor meaningful scientific labels for anything.

Why do you need a scientific label? Does that negate some people are crazy? Not to me.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Speaking of the whole "coddling is destroying our children" thing, are there actually any specific instances where the spree killer was overcoddled by their parents? I'm trying to think back to the Aurora, VA Tech, Columbine, etc. shooters, but I don't really know their backgrounds. They certainly had mental problems, but I doubt that was caused by coddling them too much.

I read somewhere last night that the mother was supposedly rather stern.

Not sure if posted But Morgan Freemans take which I agree. Why not focus on the victims instead of the piece of shit that did it. Other people have mentioned similar thoughts too. Media sure the hell isn't helping.

I read that in his voice.

 

[phisheep]

I for one love unraveling the mystery of the mind. I want to know this guy inside and out, having the knowledge of what he actually was allows me to defend against pundits soapboxing and false accusations. I want to know about the guy, and I have the right. it interests me. if we're going to defeat the monster shouldn't we know what the monster was?

Really? How many killers have you known closely (for me that's 1); how many bigtime fraudsters (for me, 3); how many car thieves (1); burglars (3) ....

No. Really. You don't want to know. It won't help you, or society, any.

EDIT: Just to clarify: yes I talked to them all and listened to them all. No they made no fuckin' sense except to themselves, no there are no general conclusions to be drawn, no there is no value to society in understanding this, Yes I am kind of in touch with a couple of them still, and yes apart from the criminal stuff they are all perfectly reasonable normal ordinary people except the one who killed himself.

EDIT AGAIN: And you want to know about this stuff - you think you have the right to know? If I had my time again I would strike out those conversations.

 

[faceless007]

Why do you need a scientific label? Does that negate some people are crazy? Not to me.

...Because explaining things scientifically and rigorously is good? It doesn't negate crazy but it provides more insight, information, and resources than just "crazy" does.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Speaking of the whole "coddling is destroying our children" thing, are there actually any specific instances where the spree killer was overcoddled by their parents? I'm trying to think back to the Aurora, VA Tech, Columbine, etc. shooters, but I don't really know their backgrounds. They certainly had mental problems, but I doubt that was caused by coddling them too much.

Almost certainly not, or not in any recognizable pattern because "kids today have it too easy" has been the eternal lament of the adult generation for the last five thousand fucking years. It is what bitter people say when they are jealous of youthful exuberance and like to imagine they had a real hardscrabble, tough-love upbringing in an age of, you know, electricity, running water and supermarkets.

But hey maybe after a couple millennia it's finally magically true in the last twenty or so even though the entire world is essentially better and safer than at any point in human history.

Also, I'm older than like 90% of you here.

 

[Flo_Evans]

They shoot like a normal rifle does. Small caliber rounds. A lot of handgun calibers are actually larger and more deadly.

What? A rifle round is pretty much always more deadly than a handgun round. It is not the caliber of the bullet, it is the energy behind it.

http://youtu.be/tku8YI68-JA check out this video from an ER doctor about gunshot wounds.

 

[phisheep]

Almost certainly not, or not in any recognizable pattern because "kids today have it too easy" has been the eternal lament of the adult generation for the last five thousand fucking years. It is what bitter people say when they are jealous of youthful exuberance and like to imagine they had a real hardscrabble, tough-love upbringing in an age of, you know, electricity, running water and supermarkets.

But hey maybe after a couple millennia it's finally magically true in the last twenty or so even though the entire world is essentially better and safer than at any point in human history.

Also, I'm older than like 90% of you here.

Glad somebody posted this who isn't as old as me! Thanks Joe - spot on.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Well time to do some pruning on Facebook...



This is from my father-in-law too.

Listening to some talk radio this morning was just as depressing. Lots of talk about the corrupting influence of Xbox and gangster rap. The more things change...

I think removing people from FB that disagrees with your worldview only leads to a self-perpetuating echo chamber and while it may feel good to constantly hear people agree with you I believe that engaging in a discourse and healthy debate with people (yes, even on FB) can be a net positive.

I have a TON of friends that simply do NOT agree with me about guns. I'm pretty pro-gun/anti-maniac. We have our debates but I wouldn't unfriend someone because we have a different worldview in this regard.

 

[jtb]

I think the moment we start calling these killers "monsters" (or whatever term that we use to otherize them) and think that there's nothing we can learn from them is very dangerous. The cold, hard truth is that he is human just like every one of us. We don't have to understand them to help them and to prevent these tragedies from happening again. Painting him as an other is completely counterintuitive and basically concedes that all we should do is wait for this to happen again.

Not to mention it only further stigmatizes mental health issues in this country, which does no one any good.

Now, do I think CNN should have Dr. Drew on spewing his bullshit or glorifying these killers? No, of course not. But just because the media is exploitative and shit doesn't mean we stop trying to study these things. America has a culture of violence; it's too easy to write it off as "crazy people!" and not explore why this is the case.

Whatever gives you the thought I don't extend those freedoms to my own children? I do. Biggest problem I got is trying to get them to make use of them!

(also just saw this, so I'll reply to it now) I think I just misinterpreted your original post. My belief is that society hasn't changed all that much in the past 50 years, and I think we agree on that idea.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

What? A rifle round is pretty much always more deadly than a handgun round. It is not the caliber of the bullet, it is the energy behind it.

Desert Eagle vs Ruger 10/22.