• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sec Betsy DeVos Plans to Consult MRAs About Campus Sexual Assault

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ts_trolls_to_advise_her_on_campus_sexual.html

When Trump nominated Betsy DeVos to lead the Department of Education, anti-rape advocates worried about the damage she might do. The Obama administration had pushed universities to better address sexual assault on their campuses, prescribing stricter guidelines for adjudicating accusations and publishing lists of schools under investigation. DeVos refused to say whether or not she’d uphold that guidance, but the prospects looked grim. She and her family foundation had both donated money to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, an advocacy group working to undo the progress Obama’s Department of Education had made on campus sexual assault.

To help her decide, DeVos is meeting with several organizations that do work on this issue. Victims’ rights organizations, including Know Your IX and the National Women’s Law Center, are on the list. So are a few men’s rights groups that see campus rape as a faux crisis manufactured to demonize and damage men and boys. Politico reported last week that the Department of Education has contacted Stop Abusive and Violent Environments (SAVE), Families Advocating for Campus Equality (FACE), and the National Coalition for Men to set up meetings about the campus sexual assault guidance, which all three organizations oppose.

The National Coalition for Men, as its name implies, is one of the largest, longest-running, and shameless men’s rights organizations out there. It is founded on the belief that domestic violence and sexual assault are widely overreported (in other words, that women regularly invent incidents of these crimes) and that some of the blame often lies with the female victim. President Harry Crouch calls this alleged conspiracy of women, the media, and law enforcement the “men’s violence industry.” The organization has a history of harassing and intimidating alleged sexual-assault survivors, ThinkProgress points out: Chapters have published photos, names, and biographical details of women who have accused men—falsely, the National Coalition for Men insists—of rape. Its members routinely bring lawsuits against women-only networking groups and social events, crying discrimination.

Crouch has argued that women are too rarely held responsible for domestic violence they “instigate.” “I’m not saying he’s a good guy,” Crouch said in 2014 of football player Ray Rice, who knocked out his then-girlfriend in an elevator. “But if she hadn’t aggravated him, she wouldn’t have been hit. They would say that’s blaming the victim. But I don’t buy it.” He also claimed that “if a little person without a penis instigates, she will never be accountable for her actions” and wondered why the NFL can’t “have a week, or just one day, where they celebrate men?” as when the league wears pink jerseys for breast cancer awareness.

Jesus fucking Christ

Its like she looks for new ways to be horrible
 

Volimar

Member
Crouch said in 2014 of football player Ray Rice, who knocked out his then-girlfriend in an elevator. “But if she hadn’t aggravated him, she wouldn’t have been hit. They would say that’s blaming the victim. But I don’t buy it.”

What...the..fuck


Aren't there any MRA groups that aren't massively misogynistic? I mean there are issues that deserve discussion, but how can you take them seriously when they say things like that?
 

Litan

Member
What...the..fuck


Aren't there any MRA groups that aren't massively misogynistic? I mean there are issues that deserve discussion, but how can you take them seriously when they say things like that?
If you're not misogynistic, why would you be part of an MRA group?
 

Fuchsdh

Member
What...the..fuck


Aren't there any MRA groups that aren't massively misogynistic? I mean there are issues that deserve discussion, but how can you take them seriously when they say things like that?

I honestly don't know. I think part of the problem is that the idea is seen as so fringe that it's generally only going to attract dreck.

The Politico story this all originally came from gives a more sober telling of the facts.

It's certainly not a good look—while you could argue including these groups despite their reputation is simply good governance, Devos doesn't have a great track record here so it seems right to worry they may steer the ship on this.

That said, I have to disagree with a lot of the Slate article, in particular this:

Now that she's in office, DeVos has to choose: Will she let the Obama guidance, which lowered the burden of proof required in sexual assault cases, stand? Or will she let schools revert back to their old practices, like forcing victims to sign nondisclosure agreements and letting accusations stand for months—or even years—without taking action?

I think there's multiple options to improve handling of sexual assault while also not depriving students of their right to due process. That said, I'm not holding my breath this is in the cards with DeVos.

If you're not misogynistic, why would you be part of an MRA group?

Because there aren't really groups focused on those issues? The common response is "if you believe in ___ you should be a feminist" as if that's the end of the argument.
 
Crouch has argued that women are too rarely held responsible for domestic violence they “instigate.” “I’m not saying he’s a good guy,” Crouch said in 2014 of football player Ray Rice, who knocked out his then-girlfriend in an elevator. “But if she hadn’t aggravated him, she wouldn’t have been hit. They would say that’s blaming the victim. But I don’t buy it.” He also claimed that “if a little person without a penis instigates, she will never be accountable for her actions” and wondered why the NFL can’t “have a week, or just one day, where they celebrate men?” as when the league wears pink jerseys for breast cancer awareness.


Erm. What? What is this shit?
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
This had my head fucking spinning at just how insanely fucked up it all sounds. Maybe she'll consult known child predators about getting jobs in the school system next.
 

Volimar

Member
If you're not misogynistic, why would you be part of an MRA group?

In a lot of local courts fathers still don't get the benefit of the doubt that mothers do in custody and divorce hearings. There should also be more widely available battered men's shelters.


Things like that that even if you don't agree with deserve to be discussed at least.
 

SeanC

Member
Nothing this administration does can be said as good. It's like they go out of their ways to do the exact opposite because...reasons?
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
In a lot of local courts fathers still don't get the benefit of the doubt that mothers do in custody and divorce hearings. There should also be more widely available battered men's shelters.


Things like that that even if you don't agree with deserve to be discussed at least.

MRA's just use that for a front to hate on women and feminists. They're about as effective for Men's rights as I am Firefly fan's are at getting a new season.
 

Litan

Member
In a lot of local courts fathers still don't get the benefit of the doubt that mothers do in custody and divorce hearings. There should also be more widely available battered men's shelters.


Things like that that even if you don't agree with deserve to be discussed at least.
I was always of the mind that feminism, while it focuses largely on Women's rights and issues, cares about things that affect men too.
Or at least that's how it was told to me on GAF.
 
What...the..fuck


Aren't there any MRA groups that aren't massively misogynistic? I mean there are issues that deserve discussion, but how can you take them seriously when they say things like that?

Because they only care about making women look like the bad guys.
 

reckless

Member
Crouch said in 2014 of football player Ray Rice, who knocked out his then-girlfriend in an elevator. “But if she hadn’t aggravated him, she wouldn’t have been hit. They would say that’s blaming the victim. But I don’t buy it.
Fucking hell, what a terrible person.

7 months in and the administration keeps coming up with new horrible surprises.
 
In a lot of local courts fathers still don't get the benefit of the doubt that mothers do in custody and divorce hearings. There should also be more widely available battered men's shelters.


Things like that that even if you don't agree with deserve to be discussed at least.

Problem there is those issues still result from male-pushed policy, as you would expect in a largely patriarchal society that pressures men to suck it up and posits that women should be primary caretakers. MRAs are mainly concerned with complaining about women being treated preferentially, not with providing assistance or solutions for men.
 
Why not consult neonazies on race relations?

This fucking administration is going to kill me. Everyday of news makes me feel like I'm aging 10 years.
 

Kevinroc

Member
They have to do everything opposite of the Obama administration. So of course they would do this.

(Watch them to try to bring Bin Laden back to life.)
 

Random Human

They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
This is the inevitable horrifying conclusion that "both sides"ing every issue gets you.
 

Volimar

Member
Yeah but I'm not talking about these sleazy groups, I'm talking about guys that actually care about those things.

I was always of the mind that feminism, while it focuses largely on Women's rights and issues, cares about things that affect men too.
Or at least that's how it was told to me on GAF.

Sure, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to be part of something where those issues are a higher priority. You can be both.
 

jtb

Banned
What...the..fuck


Aren't there any MRA groups that aren't massively misogynistic? I mean there are issues that deserve discussion, but how can you take them seriously when they say things like that?

No? MRA (the label, at least) are literally the feminism equivalent of White Lives Matter - organized hate groups.
 
In a lot of local courts fathers still don't get the benefit of the doubt that mothers do in custody and divorce hearings. There should also be more widely available battered men's shelters.


Things like that that even if you don't agree with deserve to be discussed at least.
And people who did their research would hopefully realize that feminism cares about these issues too, since they are tied to patriarchy and rigid gender roles which feminists want to dismantle. So anyone who truly cares about these issues and ends up an anti-feminist MRA... well, probably just doesn't want women to benefit.
 
“But if she hadn’t aggravated him, she wouldn’t have been hit. They would say that’s blaming the victim. But I don’t buy it.”

Holy fucking shit...I think I actually lost brain cells reading this.

Like, how can you not see that's EXACTLY what you're doing?
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I was always of the mind that feminism, while it focuses largely on Women's rights and issues, cares about things that affect men too.
Or at least that's how it was told to me on GAF.

That's a nice opinion, but I don't see it actually being true insofar as any policy planks of feminist organizations. NOW mentions nothing about men's issues. Neither does Feminist Majority Foundation, nor the YWCA. And of course none of the very targeted ones (Women Impacting Public Policy, National Councils of ___ Women, NAFE, et al.)

"Feminism deals with your issues" is basically the "shut up and don't mansplain to me about your problems" response. The idea that you should let someone else advocate for you is anathema for good reason. Most mens' rights groups I've seen in the news are definitely full of cancerous opinions, but I think there's plenty of room for such an organization.

Either way, when it comes to the problems with Title IX enforcement, I don't trust the Trump administration to make the right call at all.
 

Oersted

Member
I love how we came from Sec Betsy DeVos plans to consult mysogonists about campus sexual assault to men in custody hearings within a few posts.
 
If you're not misogynistic, why would you be part of an MRA group?

I think the person you're responding to is thinking about stuff like male sexual assault victims, legitimate father's rights issues, etc.

But those aren't really areas of focus for MRA groups. And it definitely isn't for the groups in question here. (Just look at the website for SAVE, which is all about "protecting" people from "false accusations.")
I think we'd have heard about any actually positive mens rights groups by now if there were any, if only for being the exception to the rule.

This, basically
 

kirblar

Member
Accidentally getting male students caught in the crossfire when trying to remedy antiquated and terrible sexual assault handling practices is a real concern.

However, there's absolutely no need to be talking to MRAs when you have civil rights lawyers and other academics available who can lay out the issues!
 
Top Bottom