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Sega: "We are gonna, push, bone, with nintendo."
- Thread starter Roders5
- Start date
Oblivion said:
I do wish people would refrain from posting responses to reasons I never made. I never said using Nintendo IPs as proof of 'support'. As I said repeatedly, it is the money.
You make franchises by creating your own IPs. Why use someone else's IP that you have no control over?
The answer is money. Third companies think they can make money using Nintendo's IP.
I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.
Lapsed said:
Sonic Rush was good output. When I say "horrible lineup," don't infer from that statement that every single game within that lineup should be understood as horrible. It means the lineup as a whole is.
Sega's PSP support -- again, as a whole -- has been, and looks like it'll continue being, far, far, far stronger than their DS support. Unless you're looking for kiddy games like Love and Berry or Mushiking or Charlotte's Web.
Lapsed said:
See above statements. I'm not saying that Sonic Wild Fire (played it at E3; loved it, thought it the best 3D Sonic to date) or Super Monkey Ball (not the lack of a 3, denoting a lack of confidence?) are shoddy games. I said it's a shoddy lineup. And if you look at Sega's PS3 and 360 lineups, which absolutely dwarf their Wii lineup, I don't see how that's arguable.
SMB was a natural fit for the Wii (one of Sega's many franchises that is perfect for the console), but let's not pretend that they're going full tilt for the Wii -- while the support is marginally stronger than what they gave the GameCube early on (in some respects; still no Sega RPGs for Wii) it's nowhere comparable to the PS3/360 support. So Sega is not backing Nintendo as thoroughly as you're pretending here.
Lapsed said:
temjin said:
I can't see any way in which Shenmue III would be an appropriate game for the Wii. Shenmue is defined by being the highest calibre cinematic experience with the fullest and most detailed world.
It is absolutely not the right game for the Wii. Shenmue III, if it ever gets made, needs to be on either the PS3 or 360 (I'd say 360, as there's no good reason at this point to break the series across multiple brand consoles).
NiGHTS, Panzer Dragoon, Rez, Ecco the Dolphin, Skies of Arcadia, Samba de Amigo -- yes, I can see great arguments for all of these being on Wii. But Shenmue? GTFO.
All the spinning is making me dizzy.
We are still 3-4 months away from launch and its a bit premature to make sweeping generalizations about Sega's support. A lot can happen in that time, not to mention if new projects were greenlighted post E3, they would only be 2 months in the development process and we may not hear about them until after Wii is released and Sega can make a more refined assment of how they want to support the console.
All the list making in the world is really pointless at this stage as Nintendo has gone completely silent about the Wii since E3 and all the news we're getting are fromt he post E3 afterglow. Furthermore, Wii is far more dependent than the GameCube on developer commitment. Comparing the number of games alone doesn't really tell the whole story. In terms of involvement with the hardware, Sega is in much deeper this time around.
The only fact we know is that Wii is getting a fairly decent new Sonic game (the E3 demo was short but I can see a great game if its expanded into a full fledge game) and Monkey Ball game and Sega seems pleased with being in a very advantageous position as a publisher with an inside track. That's really all we know and its a positive news if you like the Wii.
We are still 3-4 months away from launch and its a bit premature to make sweeping generalizations about Sega's support. A lot can happen in that time, not to mention if new projects were greenlighted post E3, they would only be 2 months in the development process and we may not hear about them until after Wii is released and Sega can make a more refined assment of how they want to support the console.
All the list making in the world is really pointless at this stage as Nintendo has gone completely silent about the Wii since E3 and all the news we're getting are fromt he post E3 afterglow. Furthermore, Wii is far more dependent than the GameCube on developer commitment. Comparing the number of games alone doesn't really tell the whole story. In terms of involvement with the hardware, Sega is in much deeper this time around.
The only fact we know is that Wii is getting a fairly decent new Sonic game (the E3 demo was short but I can see a great game if its expanded into a full fledge game) and Monkey Ball game and Sega seems pleased with being in a very advantageous position as a publisher with an inside track. That's really all we know and its a positive news if you like the Wii.
Mooreberg said:
Well, I meant "ignoring Sega consoles." Shenmue II is already on the Xbox... and it's such a story-heavy series that if you're going to be restricted to either the PS3 or 360, the console with a previous entry in the series makes the most sense.
Deku said:
At the moment I'm basing my statements on... Sega's currently announced games and their fiscal year projects (in which report they stated the number of games they'd be releasing/projecting for each console), as well as their DS versus PSP support.
Based on those two things, Sega's support for the Wii is drastically weaker than their support for the 360/PS3, and they are following the same trend of last-gen (again, to date and based upon my conditions above) as putting money-makers on Nintendo's console and putting hardcore games on the others.
Yeah, sure, a lot can happen and things will be in flux and certainly E3 will have opened a lot of eyes. But I'm talking about how things are right now based on what we know right now. Their showing at this point is not impressive overall (even while being much better overall than the GCN showing).
Pristine_Condition
Member
As a Nintendo fan, I don't understand this at all. When you have a third-place console marketshare in the America, how "hard-to-get" should Nintendo be playing?
It seems to me, if I'm an American developer, and I'm looking at spending a few million bucks of my own money to develop a unique product for the Wii that will sell and make money for Nintendo via the license, I should just be able to call them up, send them some stuff, sign some paper, shake a few hands and get on with making a good game.
If a company like Sega feels like it has to "woo" Nintendo, what kind of approach are we dealing with here? I've heard of Sony being cocky, but still pretty good for developers to deal with. Nintendo's console position in America doesn't exactly afford them the luxury of playing too "hard-to-get" does it?
This argument is already flawed because these supposed goals for the series seemed to have been accomplished in your eyes on the technically-inferior Dreamcast. I mean, if the series could leave such an impression on you back in 1999 on the DC, a system that was overshadowed by the promise of more powerful hardware down the line, who's to say it HAS to exploit the most powerful hardware now when it didn't before? The franchise did its job on Dreamcast, so I think it can do the same job on ANY platform. If Sega was really hell-bent on putting the series on the most powerful hardware available to them, they should have skipped the Dreamcast and put it on the PC (which Sega was publishing games for at the time of the Dreamcast's life). Theory's flawed, dude.ethelred said:
We're living in a post-E3 world now. Nintendo holds a lot more cards now, plain and simple. If they can get an unprecedented response from the industry and consumers who had previously written the platform off as gimmicky and awkward, there's POWER to be gained from that. Nintendo IS a power-player in the next generation of hardware now, so why should Nintendo have to go kiss the asses of people who didn't have any faith in their ability to know its audience and others? Ubisoft knew what was up (they decided to resurrect Rayman and make it a timed exclusive to the system), Sega knew it (Sonic, Monkey Ball, Bleach), Bandai knew it (Final Furlong, One Peice, DBZ, Digimon, Gundam, an untitled RPG, etc.), Square Enix knew it (DQ Swords, FFCC:CC), EA knew it (5 titles in development, including Madden)... hell, even Konami knew it (Kojima project, Elebits, possible Winning Eleven title)...Pristine_Condition said:
Simply put, it's a 3rd-party's own fault if they miss the boat.
Terrell said:
The theory is not flawed. It was a massively, staggerngly expensive first-party game -- OF COURSE Sega would put it on their own hardware, which they were still trying to use to compete with.
But now that they're not supporting their own hardware, Shenmue should be on the more powerful systems. And yes, while it initially accomplished its goals in 1999, time has progressed. Graphics have progressed. Shenmue, in order to continue achieving its goals of cinematic presentation and absolute realism, needs to continue to progress -- it needs to be on the more powerful hardware.
There is not a Single. One. Tiny. reason why Shenmue would be a fitting game for the Wii. Not a ****ing one.
By that argument, once again, Shenmue should bypass 360 and PS3 because it can't compete with the PC, negating the whole concept you had laid down. So yeah... like I said, the argument has a flaw in that there is an assumption placed down that it has to exploit the most powerful hardware EXCEPT PC. I mean, there's nothing stopping them now, since they're not "competing" anymore.ethelred said:
And the way you're talking, it's almost as though you're implying that Wii isn't enough of a step up from the Dreamcast to make it even remotely viable.
And lastly... this is SEGA, they have never made a decision in their lives that made a remote bit of sense since they went 3rd-party. So putting the franchise on Wii would just be a continuance of tradition.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Sorry for the cross-post but it seemed relevant, and I didn't feel like paraphrasing....ethelred said:
Here is the thing. When the PSP was announced, it was like (and may have litteraly been in some cases) Sony telling everybody that since they managed to pretty much obliterate all comers during the last two console generations they were going to have a repeat performance in the handheld arena.
Everyone believed them and every Japanese company that was banking on Sony being right has been scrambling since Christmas to put together some quality products for the DS as opposed to the SNES ports and B-Team games that they were using to hedge their bets until now.
Quality 3rd party products are coming to the DS, and quality products will sell on the DS with the same hit and miss ratios that they do on every other system that is king of the hill.
Terrell said:
Nah. Console gaming is still the primary form of gaming, especially for a company like Sega... not PC gaming. PC is fine for something like Shenmue Online, but Shenmue III, if it ever were to be made should be on a console. Perhaps console AND PC, but it needs to be a console, and that should be one of the two more powerful ones.
Terrell said:
The Wii is a big, huge step above the Dreamcast, but it's not a step up enough to continue the tradition of Shenmue which requires more power so that it looks comparable if not better than the very best looking stuff out there. Ultimate realism, as much as can be squeezed in.
Terrell said:
That's bull. The PS3 and the 360 would have a lot to offer Shenmue; it's simply not an appropriate game for the Wii, period, end, stop, because Wii has absolutely nothing to offer Shenmue -- the controller doesn't mesh with its gameplay and it is one of those games where the immersiveness and the cinematic experience is more than the gameplay anyway, and so you would truly be sacrificing real gains by putting it on an underpowered console.
I want plenty of games on Wii because I think it'll afford them real benefits in gameplay and control. Shenmue is not one of those games. But it's just lame to want every game on Wii just because, and if the reasoning is "Shenmue should be on Wii because Sega's retarded," then what the hell, that's not reasoning at all.
The nice thing about having a new generation where you have multiple systems offering their own take on gaming hardware is that different games can take different approaches and work within the benefits that each competing console offers. Games should go where the game would be best made (while still financially viable), and Wii is absolutely ****ing wrong for Shenmue in every way.
I think you're a little confused... I'm not disagreeing with you, just questioning your logic.ethelred said:
Sega has put a LOT of franchises where they simply did NOT belong. As much as I loved PSO on my GameCube, it was a HUGE mistake. Putting a game with such a grossly auteur style as JSRF on a system like Xbox may have sounded like a good idea based on the system's hardware, but it was a HUGE mistake when it comes to that system's target audience. Super Monkey Ball Deluxe FLOPPED on PS2 and Xbox because they thought the game's success was not contingent on the platform itself... HUGE mistake. They made their largest revenue and greatest quantity of sales on the GameCube, but if it weren't for Sonic, the platform would have been entirely ignored by the company for most of the past generation... HUGE mistake. They split their very loyal fanbase across THREE PLATFORMS and never once completely hit the mark in terms of console demographics.
Are you seeing a pattern here?
I'm not saying that you're wrong in your assertation, I'm saying that ANY assertation about what is supposedly good for a franchise is likely the last thing Sega would ever do. Personally, I think they should put the franchise on the only platform that the game has never been on: the market leader. Will they do it? Probably not. And with that, the series will go out with a whimper and not a cheer... not really what I envision for it, but if graphics are more important than maximum exposure (or money, for that matter), so be it. Point remains, though, that Sega will find the most awkward situation for the franchise and put Shenmue right in the middle of it.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Huge Shenmue fan (played through both games multiple times even) but Shenmue 3 just wouldn't work on the wii. So you get to throw darts and stuff? yay? Wiimote would be a nightmare with QTEs(oh you flicked down left instead of down? Ryu falls off a cliff onto a chainsaw) and pretty much any actual fighting(I doubt Yu would throw away all of the work he put into the fighting system so people could enjoy some wiislapping).
And of course you gotta mention graphics cause hey we KNOW they wouldn't be as good as they would be on the X360/PS3. Sega/AM2 put a ton of work into the first two games. Full day/night cycles with proper weather effects, hundreds of unique people with their own schedules, lots more details that would be lost to the average wii owner. In all honestly looking at Sega's lineup for the GC in the past they focused on games that would appeal to the action/arcade gamer. You can't really jump from Monkey Ball to Shenmue 3 because most of the potential base wouldn't be interested. They're not buying the Wii for a bunch of complex/deep/however you want to put it stuff, they want to enjoy the new control scheme and partake in the usual batch of quality Nintendo products. The $100 million Shenmue games would feel completely out of place on the Wii and would get lost quite easily.
I swear people around here are acting like just because they got/are getting console A they "deserve" particular games. Honestly I'm beginning to enjoy Sega as a third party(Even though the Genesis and Saturn are both in my top 5 consoles list) since they always have some content for all three sides.
Also: Wait for TGS. Until there's some actual news I'd like to stop reading about everyone running in circles yelling about how much Sega screwed up. It's getting a bit tired considering it's all in the past. Microsoft gave Sega a fat check for Shenmue 2 on the Xbox, PSO has been on every console and the PS2/X360/PC are getting PSU, etc. They'll split their loyalty however the **** they want and I won't care one bit.
PS: Shenmue 3 ain't happening
And of course you gotta mention graphics cause hey we KNOW they wouldn't be as good as they would be on the X360/PS3. Sega/AM2 put a ton of work into the first two games. Full day/night cycles with proper weather effects, hundreds of unique people with their own schedules, lots more details that would be lost to the average wii owner. In all honestly looking at Sega's lineup for the GC in the past they focused on games that would appeal to the action/arcade gamer. You can't really jump from Monkey Ball to Shenmue 3 because most of the potential base wouldn't be interested. They're not buying the Wii for a bunch of complex/deep/however you want to put it stuff, they want to enjoy the new control scheme and partake in the usual batch of quality Nintendo products. The $100 million Shenmue games would feel completely out of place on the Wii and would get lost quite easily.
I swear people around here are acting like just because they got/are getting console A they "deserve" particular games. Honestly I'm beginning to enjoy Sega as a third party(Even though the Genesis and Saturn are both in my top 5 consoles list) since they always have some content for all three sides.
Also: Wait for TGS. Until there's some actual news I'd like to stop reading about everyone running in circles yelling about how much Sega screwed up. It's getting a bit tired considering it's all in the past. Microsoft gave Sega a fat check for Shenmue 2 on the Xbox, PSO has been on every console and the PS2/X360/PC are getting PSU, etc. They'll split their loyalty however the **** they want and I won't care one bit.
PS: Shenmue 3 ain't happening
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Perhaps you will disagree with its importance, but just to name a ****ing one, taking a massively, staggerngly expensive game series and achieving top-of-the-line cinematic presentation and absolute realism on PS3 will be significantly more staggerngly expensive.ethelred said:
*shrug* As long as I'm shuffling through drawers looking for a key, wiimote doesn't seem a bad way to go.ethelred said:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Lapsed said:
Please don't say stuff like that.
First of all, they're completely unrelated, and second, Dreamcast failed.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
This is what would be the best possible scenario for the Wii concerning Sega.
Not necessarily in this order:
1. House of the Dead - light gun game
2. Sega Bass Fishing - fishing with Wiimote? DUH!
3. Die Hard Arcade - light gun
4. Dynamite Cop - light gun
5. Virtua Fighter
6. Virtua Cop - light gun
7. Out Run - revival
8. Shenmue
9. Super Monkey Ball
10. Virtua Striker
11. F-Zero GX/AX (sequel)
12. Jet Set Radio
13. Panzer Dragoon
14. Streets of Rage
15. Skies of Arcadia
16. Phantasy Star
17. Sonic the Hedgehog
18. NiiGHTS Into Dreams
19. Sega Rally
20. Space Channel 5
All original sequels/revisionings/revivals please.
Not necessarily in this order:
1. House of the Dead - light gun game
2. Sega Bass Fishing - fishing with Wiimote? DUH!
3. Die Hard Arcade - light gun
4. Dynamite Cop - light gun
5. Virtua Fighter
6. Virtua Cop - light gun
7. Out Run - revival
8. Shenmue
9. Super Monkey Ball
10. Virtua Striker
11. F-Zero GX/AX (sequel)
12. Jet Set Radio
13. Panzer Dragoon
14. Streets of Rage
15. Skies of Arcadia
16. Phantasy Star
17. Sonic the Hedgehog
18. NiiGHTS Into Dreams
19. Sega Rally
20. Space Channel 5
All original sequels/revisionings/revivals please.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Also I say go for gusto. Put Shenmue 3 on the PS3, drop another $100 million on it. Even if it bombs it will be the most awesome bomb to have ever happened. It would be far more interesting than waggle wanding around Xbox1.1 level graphics and hell it would still bomb.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
I can't see them going this far all out. Lots of ports and rereleases out of this to try and feel out the market for a sequel, especially for the light gun games. Shenmue I & II pack maybe for those of us who missed it. Phantasy Star probably gets a port of Universe. Streets of Rage 1-3 on the VC. F-Zero gets a port from the GameCube with new tracks and story. The only ones I think you can bank on for sequels are Sonic and Monkey Ball. Although I wouldn't be surprised if NiGHTS got some love.PantherLotus said:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
That's why I used the words best possible scenario. Not like it would ever happen. However, there is more than one game on that list that you didn't mention that will see a revival on the Wii (outside of the VC). Mark my words.
/speculation
/speculation
I think SEGA should focus their future Wii support two fold... on one hand bring arcade games that would adapt logically to the new interfaces and network functions (Samba de Amigo, Virtua Cop, Key of Avalon, etc) and then bring classic console revivals that mesh well with Wii's inevitable cornering on gamer nostalgics (Zaxxon, Streets of Rage, Shining Force, etc) hopefully releasing the original titles on Virtual Console alongside them. The best potential games to bring would be those that combine both aspects (NiGHTS, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Racing, etc).