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[KingV]

Democrats should rip up the filibuster next time they unite all three branches. There are so many workarounds that it doesn’t really mean anything anymore.

 

[JettDash]

If they pass anything it will probably un paid for Bush style tax cuts that will expire in ten years.

 

[Shauni]

Democrats should rip up the filibuster next time they unite all three branches. There are so many workarounds that it doesn’t really mean anything anymore.

Actually, I would say the opposite and rework how reconciliation works all together, because I agree it's far to exploitable it seems like

 

[Earthbound64]

Because the tax cuts he kept were on marginal rates impacting everyone, not just the wealthy. Keeping money in the hands of those who need it and who will spend it to support the economy is a good thing.

In the land of attack ads that's raising taxes. Aside from that, economy was still a bit frail. Best to keep the lower cuts for people.

So the Bush tax cuts are still (or at least were during Obama's time) a good thing then?

People should read this pretty nice summary on how we got here and the Republicans' "Two Santas" theory.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

 

[BriGuy]

Pfft, "end of the Republican party." Take a good goddamn look around you, Lindsay - the Republican party you're all so desperate to prop up would be unrecognizable to literally every generation of Republicans that came before. You're villains now. Real fucking evil doers whose primary motivation is making life miserable for everybody else. End of the Republican party. That ship sailed, fucko.

 

[Autumn Wind]

I can't figure out Rand Paul. I know he leans toward being more of a fiscal conservative (as a libertarian Republican of his ilk is supposed to be) but I thought he was with Trump on the healthcare. He isn't with him on the budget?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

So the Bush tax cuts are still (or at least were during Obama's time) a good thing then?




Thanks, I'll check it out.

Federal tax cuts for normal people are good, yes. Particularly so when paired with a total indifference for what it does to the budget deficit. You want to cut taxes for the average joe without also trying to pare down services? Go right ahead.

 

[Abinash117]

Budget proposals doesn't really matter since they aren't law and they usually aren't the same in their final form because you need 60 votes to pass the final budget which is sometime during December.

Also considering they don't have a bill in place for the tax reform it looks like this is more of political pressure to pass something than anything else. Is the tax cut bill is based on this proposal are the current budget. Congress has to pass a budget by December because Trump screwed over this party by making the deadline much shorter than they wanted which was 6 to 18 months. That gives them enough time to pass a tax reform bill, but now it looks like they don't have much time. I can't pen it down really, but this seems to kind of a desperate move that has a high unlikely chance of paying off.

 

[RDreamer]

So the Bush tax cuts are still (or at least were during Obama's time) a good thing then?

When he extended them, yeah. In 2010 the economy still wasn't 100% on its feet from the crash. Raising taxes on middle class families probably wouldn't have done well. That and he negotiated a payroll tax holiday and the extension of Emergency Unemployment Compensation at the time.

Realistically no party is going to try and raise taxes on the middle class. Any cut that happens will stay almost forever middle class because of attack ads. Democrats will try to raise on the wealthy if they can, and Republicans will get in and lower them substantially for the wealthy and a tiny bit for everyone else.

 

[JettDash]

I can't figure out Rand Paul. I know he leans toward being more of a fiscal conservative (as a libertarian Republican of his ilk is supposed to be) but I thought he was with Trump on the healthcare. He isn't with him on the budget?

I think his problem with with this resolution is it has too much money for the military.

With healthcare, his problem was that it wasn't terrible enough.

 

[KingV]

Actually, I would say the opposite and rework how reconciliation works all together, because I agree it's far to exploitable it seems like

Reconciliation is far too weighted towards tearing things down than building them up because of the rules on must not increase the deficit.

But to get around it, Congress just passes a budget resolution, only subject to 51 votes that says “increase the deficit with tax cuts.”

It’s garbage. Thworetically this can sail through the senate and never be subject to a filibusterable vote at any point in the process.

It makes me wonder why Democrats couldn’t do the same thing to increase payroll taxes on the rich or whatever.

 

[Earthbound64]

Federal tax cuts for normal people are good, yes. Particularly so when paired with a total indifference for what it does to the budget deficit. You want to cut taxes for the average joe without also trying to pare down services? Go right ahead.

When he extended them, yeah. In 2010 the economy still wasn't 100% on its feet from the crash. Raising taxes on middle class families probably wouldn't have done well. That and he negotiated a payroll tax holiday and the extension of Emergency Unemployment Compensation at the time.

Realistically no party is going to try and raise taxes on the middle class. Any cut that happens will stay almost forever middle class because of attack ads. Democrats will try to raise on the wealthy if they can, and Republicans will get in and lower them substantially for the wealthy and a tiny bit for everyone else.

Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. Apologies for making you both explain basic things; I've been a tax-paying worker since 1998... just, as I said, never really examined the intricacies of things too much / kept too close an eye on things.

 

[Link]

I'm not sure how far they can go before their constituents start realizing they are being duped. Don't feel like they can get away with gutting Medicare in particular, that's about the biggest "fuck you" they could possibly give their base.

Republican voters: "Hold my beer."

 

[SenorArdilla]

Please fail.

 

[KingV]

Budget proposals doesn't really matter since they aren't law and they usually aren't the same in their final form because you need 60 votes to pass the final budget which is sometime during December.

Also considering they don't have a bill in place for the tax reform it looks like this is more of political pressure to pass something than anything else. Is the tax cut bill is based on this proposal are the current budget. Congress has to pass a budget by December because Trump screwed over this party by making the deadline much shorter than they wanted which was 6 to 18 months. That gives them enough time to pass a tax reform bill, but now it looks like they don't have much time. I can't pen it down really, but this seems to kind of a desperate move that has a high unlikely chance of paying off.

When is the last time both houses passed a budget?

Does the actual budget have to be passed to utilize the budget instructions? Obviously reconciliation was going to be used for healthcare even though no budget was passed for 2017.

But you can’t filibuster budget resolutions either. From what I gather it will never be subject to a filibusterable vote.

 

[NervousXtian]

Tax cuts do fuck all to help the middle-class, as they don't pay all that much in taxes to begin with compared to what they reap from what those taxes pay for.

The only ones seeing a lifestyle change are people who don't need the fucking tax cut to begin with.

Also, where the fuck are they going to cut that much in spending to off-set it? They have never managed to do that with a GOP President in charge.

Fine, cut taxes.. but don't cut spending. Run that deficit for all I care.

 

[Abstrusity]

It'll also cut pell grant funding, won't it? Basically ending my college career just as I was about to get into UCF...

 

[Abinash117]

Reconciliation is far too weighted towards tearing things down than building them up because of the rules on must not increase the deficit.

But to get around it, Congress just passes a budget resolution, only subject to 51 votes that says “increase the deficit with tax cuts.”

It’s garbage. Thworetically this can sail through the senate and never be subject to a filibusterable vote at any point in the process.

It makes me wonder why Democrats couldn’t do the same thing to increase payroll taxes on the rich or whatever.

The budget is a proposal and not a real budget. The real budget is due December. They probably could have, but Democrats prefer to do things by the books.

 

[Sciz]

Even so, Democrats sounded the alarm, warning that the aspirational cuts in the budget plan called for slicing more than $1 trillion from Medicaid and about $470 billion from Medicare over a decade.

Are these idiots actually going to try and do tax cuts and healthcare in a single bill?

 

[Abinash117]

When is the last time both houses passed a budget?

Does the actual budget have to be passed to utilize the budget instructions? Obviously reconciliation was going to be used for healthcare even though no budget was passed for 2017.

But you can’t filibuster budget resolutions either. From what I gather it will never be subject to a filibusterable vote.

The last spending bill was passed in May that went to September 30th. That was around the time when the Democrats then expended the deadline for the new budget to December that will fund the government until the new budget needs to be passed. I don't know the answer to the second question, but resolutions are just for the blueprints I think they kind of don't matter that much.

 

[tkscz]

19 trillion in debt... LETS MAKE THE DEBT EVEN WORSE!

 

[Randolph Freelander]

19 trillion in debt... LETS MAKE THE DEBT EVEN WORSE!

I mean, yes. Let's do.

Let's just do it better than showering the wealthy with even more money.

 

[KingV]

The last spending bill was passed in May that went to September 30th. That was around the time when the Democrats then expended the deadline for the new budget to December that will fund the government until the new budget needs to be passed. I don't know the answer to the second question, but resolutions are just for the blueprints I think they kind of don't matter that much.

I’m not 100% certain either because senate procedures are quite complicated and reporters are quite shitty about explaining them.

 

[Not]

I'm not sure how far they can go before their constituents start realizing they are being duped. Don't feel like they can get away with gutting Medicare in particular, that's about the biggest "fuck you" they could possibly give their base.

Long as they're still white

 

[Saint Gregory]

19 trillion in debt... LETS MAKE THE DEBT EVEN WORSE!

They love to talk about Obama doubling that debt but always leave out that the Bush tax cuts and having to continue to pay for mistakes made during the Bush years is exactly what ballooned it.

I do wish that Obama let the tax cuts expire but I think that he realized with Republicans holding Congress it would be impossible to pass another tax plan to keep in place the paltry cuts for the middle class.

 

[slit]

I thought they said they won't be able to afford the tax cuts unless Obamacare was repealed. So much for the GOP promises for fiscal responsibility.

 

[demosthenes]

I look forward to the national debt sky rocketing.

 

[GreenMonkey]

They love to talk about Obama doubling that debt but always leave out that the Bush tax cuts and having to continue to pay for mistakes made during the Bush years is exactly what ballooned it.

I do wish that Obama let the tax cuts expire but I think that he realized with Republicans holding Congress it would be impossible to pass another tax plan to keep in place the paltry cuts for the middle class.

No, tax cuts = more growth = more tax revenue, silly.

Any talk about deficits increasing because of tax cuts is obviously liberal media propaganda.

That's the problem, one of these parties lives in a non-facts bubble now.

 

[thepotatoman]

God dammit Democrats. When Obama was in office you claimed you couldn't do anything worthwhile because of Republican obstruction, yet somehow the GOP is able to get shit passed without 60 votes.

We barely dodged Trumpcare, ffs. Now they're going to drive up the deficit to line billionaires' pockets, and the Democrats are going to just shrug and take it for three more years.

Since it's attached to the budget process, it's only one per year and they only had two years to work with thanks to gerrymandering stealing the opportunity in 2013-2014.

In 2009 they were planning on using it for climate change regulation, and that failed because apparently a bunch of them didn't want to do anything about climate change, and wanted to let republicans filibuster so they could vote for something they knew wouldn't pass. 2010 they did use it to pass some obamacare details they didn't think would get through with 60 votes to make it a little more progressive than it otherwise would have been, but with a lot smaller subsidies and taxes than Obama was asking for.

I hope they were at least doing it for ideological purposes because it did jack shit for them politically. Basically all of those seats are run by republicans now. Even an idiot like Trump saw that the south doesn't give a crap about fiscal conservatism.

Thankfully there's only two or three democrats left that might follow that same path, though I'd still take a senate packed with Liebermans over a senate packed with Collins and Murkowskis since at least Lieberman did vote for a gutted Obamacare.

 

[Howard Ballou]

I look forward to the national debt sky rocketing.

GOP voters will suddenly care again the moment a Democrat is in the White House.

 

[Pyrokai]

So I have a question: I keep hearing this term "once in a generation opportunity"

Why is that? I legitimately don't know, but I would hope a lot of the vile stuff this brings can be fixed in the future?

I dunno. I'm slowly slipping in to apathy and/or despair........the Koch Brothers won.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This tax cut is literally the only thing the GOP actually cares about so they will make sure they pass it.

 

[Ac30]

”because if you’re a Republican and you don’t want to simplify the tax code and cut taxes, what good are you to anybody?”

Man they must really hate H.W.

 

[appaws]

I'd Rand Paul like, the most useless Senator ever?

I can't figure out Rand Paul. I know he leans toward being more of a fiscal conservative (as a libertarian Republican of his ilk is supposed to be) but I thought he was with Trump on the healthcare. He isn't with him on the budget?

At least he tries at some level to oppose the internationalist, militarist order. I wish more Democrats would do as much. And he is willing to go against his own party and leadership. We need more Rand Pauls in both parties.

And fuck Lindsey Graham, that war mongering jerkoff.

 

[daxy]

Like clockwork. What is it with the US and tax cuts? I can't wrap my mind around it.

 

[thepotatoman]

So I have a question: I keep hearing this term "once in a generation opportunity"

Why is that? I legitimately don't know, but I would hope a lot of the vile stuff this brings can be fixed in the future?

I dunno. I'm slowly slipping in to apathy and/or despair........the Koch Brothers won.

I think they might call it that because many conservatives still rightly believe in the theory that the increasing share of minorities over whites going forward will lock them out of power like they they have now for the foreseeable future. For instance, Trump did noticeably better with white voters than Bush did in 2004, and yet Trump lost the popular vote because whites are only 71% of the vote instead of the 77% in 2004. The trend will only continue to get worse for them.

Those demographic changes should be hitting a tipping point at some point in the 2020s, and they're probably going to need a few years before they can recover from a possible voter backlash against trump.

 

[Somnid]

Like clockwork. What is it with the US and tax cuts? I can't wrap my mind around it.

Rich business men think their taxes are high, complain to government, tell poor people their taxes are too high and that they live in a handout state where other people have the audacity to live on their tax dollars while being lazy.

 

[Tahnit]

Fucking hell get money out of politics!

I wish these people were serving public office to...ya know...serve the public and not line their and their millionaire donors pockets.

Why can’t they just take their high salaries and be happy. Why does anyone need this much money. I don’t fucking get it.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

Budget proposals doesn't really matter since they aren't law and they usually aren't the same in their final form because you need 60 votes to pass the final budget which is sometime during December.

Also considering they don't have a bill in place for the tax reform it looks like this is more of political pressure to pass something than anything else. Is the tax cut bill is based on this proposal are the current budget. Congress has to pass a budget by December because Trump screwed over this party by making the deadline much shorter than they wanted which was 6 to 18 months. That gives them enough time to pass a tax reform bill, but now it looks like they don't have much time. I can't pen it down really, but this seems to kind of a desperate move that has a high unlikely chance of paying off.

I hope you're right

 

[djplaeskool]

This tax cut is literally the only thing the GOP actually cares about so they will make sure they pass it.

We'll see what happens down the line.
They actually have to write it now, and somehow pare it down to where it only adds a mere $1.5 Trillion to the deficit.
Good luck, fiscal conservatives.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

The path is by no means immediate, especially when the real budget talks start happening and the news gets out about those steep cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

Until Trump farts out another tweet about scary brown people or traitorous NFL players and gets everyone to focus on that instead.