Trumps first victory: Tax Reform passes the Senate.

#52
Every argument against this tax bill I've seen basically equates corporations to rich people.

Is that really a fair representation?

There are rich people who make 300k or more in California who will definitely end up being hurt by this tax bill.
 
#53
The tax code itself helps way more people than it hurts.

Other things like making grad school tuition way more taxable are things that suck about that bill.
 
#54
The house is mostly controlled by the Republicans as well it’s their bill it will pass you will be on his desk by Christmas.

Listen I think That the middle class need a tax break and every other country in the world their corporations don’t pay as much as ours let’s see how it works
the middle and lower classes aren’t getting shit 😂 😂

trump is such a good marketer. selling snake oil like it’s nothing to his base
 
#56
This certainly isn't his first victory.

Getting Gorsuch into the SCOTUS was huge, to name just one other.
That wasn't his victory. That was a victory of the republicans that were in office during the Obama admin. They managed to block Obama's nomination AND managed to do so in a way that the majority of the US electorate was fine with so that the next president got a free nomination.

For Trump it is no bigger victory than his ability to fill any cabinet positions.
 
#57
That wasn't his victory. That was a victory of the republicans that were in office during the Obama admin. They managed to block Obama's nomination AND managed to do so in a way that the majority of the US electorate was fine with so that the next president got a free nomination.

For Trump it is no bigger victory than his ability to fill any cabinet positions.
Who picked SCOTUS?

You don't have to answer - just pointing out the obvious
 
#59
Who picked SCOTUS?

You don't have to answer - just pointing out the obvious
Yeah, he GOT to pick one. He did not do battle to pick one, he did not need any skill or persuasion or dirty tricks to pick one. He could pick anyone he wanted. It was the senate republicans in power before he was ever elected that earned this victory.

And by the way, who picked the secretary of state?
You don't have to answer - just pointing out the obvious.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
#60
If this is Trump's first victory then you have to ask who would consider this a win with how broadly disliked the bill is across the country.
 
#64
How long do you guys think it will take for all those red hats to realize the fake news about them getting screwed in this was real news?
 
#65
How long do you guys think it will take for all those red hats to realize the fake news about them getting screwed in this was real news?
Yes, actually a lot of wealthy people who own expensive homes are going to be screwed because of the lower property tax deductions. But I thought that's what you guys wanted?
Screw the rich?
 
#71
Is it a win if he had to use an executive order to accomplish this? I thought that's how Obama did things?

Oh and this isn't a ruling on the ban, it's a stay on the injunction.
Yes, that is a win. Or a step in that direction if you will, but it helps him deliver his campaign promise to ban all muslims against opposition.

This all is not complicated. If he overcomes an obstacle to get what he wants, it's a win. If the opposition succeeds in stop him from doing whatever he intended, it's a loss. If he manages to rally the support of his entire party behind legislation he championed it's a win. If he can't get the votes for a thing he championed, it's a loss.
If he does something with the power he got once sworn in, that's not a win. That's a consequence of THE win, the election.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
#72
Yes, that is a win. Or a step in that direction if you will, but it helps him deliver his campaign promise to ban all muslims against opposition.

This all is not complicated. If he overcomes an obstacle to get what he wants, it's a win. If the opposition succeeds in stop him from doing whatever he intended, it's a loss. If he manages to rally the support of his entire party behind legislation he championed it's a win. If he can't get the votes for a thing he championed, it's a loss.
If he does something with the power he got once sworn in, that's not a win. That's a consequence of THE win, the election.
So Trump is as bad as Obama or it isn't bad when Trump does it? Not too mention the legal challenges are still in progress so this isn't a decisive win for him as no final judgement has been made.
 
#73
Yes, actually a lot of wealthy people who own expensive homes are going to be screwed because of the lower property tax deductions. But I thought that's what you guys wanted?
Screw the rich?
This plan screws the future too, most students are going to be priced out of their degrees because for some reason tuition is taxable. You can bet many studying to be doctors and lawyers won't be able to finish because of this.
 
#74
This plan screws the future too, most students are going to be priced out of their degrees because for some reason tuition is taxable. You can bet many studying to be doctors and lawyers won't be able to finish because of this.
Oh no, poor doctors and lawyers....
 
#76
So Trump is as bad as Obama or it isn't bad when Trump does it? Not too mention the legal challenges are still in progress so this isn't a decisive win for him as no final judgement has been made.
This has nothing to do with good or bad. I don't think the US has made a wise decision in electing Trump, and I think most (all?) of his wins will most likely be detrimental to the country as a whole and/or put undue burden on (some) of its citizens.

Still, the truth matters. I thought the correspondence dinner were Obama said that at least he was president was a funny joke. I think that Trump got the last laugh though.
I think you're all lucky he is not very effective in setting out his policies, and although it is funny to 'count the L's', he'll be there for a while and he'll get some shit done and it won't be pretty.

Now people think this is an 'us versus them' game, where you've got to pick either the blue or the red team, and do whatever you can to sell up one party and do whatever you can to knock down the other. This is because you've been living in a two-party country for too long. Nobody should wish for either party to do well, everybody should root for the country as a whole and its citizens to do well. Any politician who tries to accrue power at the expense of its citizens should be voted out, any news station who would lie or purposefully spin the truth to get one party ahead should be shunned and cease to exist through lack of viewers and advertisers. If you hate the current or previous president with a passion, and he has even a single policy you DO like, you should be free to state that that was a good policy and that does not undermine you, your previously expressed position and if it is politically advantage for the president you hate - though - because the truth matters.

And one step further, a win for a politician should, but does not mean a win for the country as a whole and certainly not for each and every citizen in it. A win for a politician is when he manages to accomplish a goal when there are people trying to oppose him. You could hate the win, it is still his win. If you see yourself as part of the effort that tried to stop it, well, then it's your loss. Sucks, no fun, but deal with it, learn from it, better luck next time.

Specifically, if he manages to get his travel ban approved it would be a win. (FOR HIM!) That is was an executive order does make the win less impressive, but what makes it a win is that he managed to find a way to get something that is basically unconstitutional - ban muslims - through the courts.
Is the way he done it bad? In my opinion it certainly is, because he twists the truth, and the truth always matters. He sells it as something else than it really is.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
#77
My point is Trump's base are as full of shit as he is in terms of actually sticking to their word. Trump bitched about Obama's golfing and Trump out does Obama on that and then some. Trump complains about all the breaks Obama took and has out done him yet again with ease in that area. Trump complains about Obama using executive orders to get his agenda across and then does the same exact thing without wasting a minute. Over and over and over everything Trump complained about Obama doing or standing for he has himself done and often done on a grander scale or a more direct manner.
 
#78
My point is Trump's base are as full of shit as he is in terms of actually sticking to their word. Trump bitched about Obama's golfing and Trump out does Obama on that and then some. Trump complains about all the breaks Obama took and has out done him yet again with ease in that area. Trump complains about Obama using executive orders to get his agenda across and then does the same exact thing without wasting a minute. Over and over and over everything Trump complained about Obama doing or standing for he has himself done and often done on a grander scale or a more direct manner.
Trump is the ultimate form of privilege in every conceivable conception.
 
#79
If this continues, won't it reach a point of inequality where most people will be unable to purchase goods? As jobs become less, and we become more, and automation takes over more and more, and the majority of the worlds population will live in cities, it seems to me, that this is a step in gutting the economic stability that can undermine the entire engine.

Corporate elites should (and some do) realize that if the population is so depressed they cannot be happy consumers, they are inadvertedly ruining their own gains and their own wealth. Money is just paper. It's just air. It's not real. If nobody can believe in it, because there is no proper trade exchange or balance, then they've thrown out the baby with the bathwater.


If this continues I won't be surprised if they end up delivering us actual basic income. Their greed will ironically (eventually) deliver us the largest entitlement program the world has ever seen.


They are being idiots. They are throwing out the baby with the bathwater looking at the short term.
 
#80
If this continues, won't it reach a point of inequality where most people will be unable to purchase goods? As jobs become less, and we become more, and automation takes over more and more, and the majority of the worlds population will live in cities, it seems to me, that this is a step in gutting the economic stability that can undermine the entire engine.

Corporate elites should (and some do) realize that if the population is so depressed they cannot be happy consumers, they are inadvertedly ruining their own gains and their own wealth. Money is just paper. It's just air. It's not real. If nobody can believe in it, because there is no proper trade exchange or balance, then they've thrown out the baby with the bathwater.


If this continues I won't be surprised if they end up delivering us actual basic income. Their greed will ironically (eventually) deliver us the largest entitlement program the world has ever seen.


They are being idiots. They are throwing out the baby with the bathwater looking at the short term.
People buying mindless gadgets like iPhones and ordering endless crap from Amazon is doing a lot more to enrich these "corporate elites" than any tax cut will.
 
#81
My point is Trump's base are as full of shit as he is in terms of actually sticking to their word. [...] Over and over and over everything Trump complained about Obama doing or standing for he has himself done and often done on a grander scale or a more direct manner.
Yeah, because the truth does not matter when you have a two-party system. It's us versus them. Just find anything and everything to criticize them and approve of everything 'we' do. The fast majority of people KNOW the only reason they used to say that shit is to harm their adversaries, but they approve because it allows 'them' to win.
The lesson is to never, ever, ever vote for a politician who wants to stick with a two-party system.
 
#82
Yeah, because the truth does not matter when you have a two-party system. It's us versus them. Just find anything and everything to criticize them and approve of everything 'we' do. The fast majority of people KNOW the only reason they used to say that shit is to harm their adversaries, but they approve because it allows 'them' to win.
The lesson is to never, ever, ever vote for a politician who wants to stick with a two-party system.
Yes, as long as people support strategic voting instead of voting for the person they truly want to vote shit like this never ends.
 
#84
Yes, as long as people support strategic voting instead of voting for the person they truly want to vote shit like this never ends.
I guess if you're left leaning and ascribe to accelerationism, then Republican control of all branches of government was the best possible outcome of the 2016 election. This should, in theory, bring about the glorious revolution that 3rd partiers have longed for for so many decades. I mean, the Green party and Libertarian Party have so much in common that it would be unforeseeable that they might stake out positions without common ground.
 
#85
It will be fun when Trumpers find out Medicare no longer covers their diabetes meds because Trump wanted to make sure Lena Dunham, Chelsea Clinton, and Meghan McCain could afford to buy winter homes in Palm Beach with their inheritances.
 
#89
Did I say they weren't needed?
But you somehow implied that it is not a big deal to become a doctor or a lawyer, as if the money they make are not justified at all.

Being rich because you worked your butt off to become successful, is actually the logical thing to happen...

Some people worked and made sacrifices to become doctors or lawyers or whatnot, at the same time some others were focusing on partying hard and "yolo-ing" through their lives... are we expecting both of them to share the same quality of life?
 
#90
People buying mindless gadgets like iPhones and ordering endless crap from Amazon is doing a lot more to enrich these "corporate elites" than any tax cut will.
You know they used psychological techniques to basically make us consumers, right, it works on the majority of people

And while I think iPhones are ridiculously overpriced, not sure how you call them 'mindless'
 
#91
But you somehow implied that it is not a big deal to become a doctor or a lawyer, as if the money they make are not justified at all.

Being rich because you worked your butt off to become successful, is actually the logical thing to happen...

Some people worked and made sacrifices to become doctors or lawyers or whatnot, at the same time some others were focusing on partying hard and "yolo-ing" through their lives... are we expecting both of them to share the same quality of life?
My point was doctors and lawyers are going to make more than enough money in their lifetimes to make up for whatever tuition they paid. Doctors have some of the highest income in this country and they are definitely a large part of the "rich" people you hate so much.

It's just funny to see the left now trying to defend rich people. Like this article from Yahoo. Gee, we should feel sorry for people who can afford 1 million dollar homes?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-set-eliminate-one-biggest-184650699.html

The Democrats are right to criticize the tax bill but their messaging is all over the place. I thought they said this tax bill is a big break for the rich and only hurts the poor? Which one is it?
 
#92
My point was doctors and lawyers are going to make more than enough money in their lifetimes to make up for whatever tuition they paid. Doctors have some of the highest income in this country and they are definitely a large part of the "rich" people you hate so much.

It's just funny to see the left now trying to defend rich people. Like this article from Yahoo. Gee, we should feel sorry for people who can afford 1 million dollar homes?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-set-eliminate-one-biggest-184650699.html

The Democrats are right to criticize the tax bill but their messaging is all over the place. I thought they said this tax bill is a big break for the rich and only hurts the poor? Which one is it?
They're saying its unbalanced. It does something for the rich at expense of everyone else overall.

The private jet tax deduction wasn't free, they did things like reducing childcare deductions for the poor, and taking away interests rate deductions for college grads who got student loans. And then there's the whole health care thing which gets rid of the mandate, but now the prices go up for everyone including corporations.

The rich got out nice, and corporations got permanent tax savings (although corporations don't pat 20% today anyway, but that's another story ).

The middle class needs bigger breaks than the measly shit they got, and the rich less breaks. Spending drives the economy, not amazon keeping more cash reserves via tax cuts.
 
#94
Yes, that is a win. Or a step in that direction if you will, but it helps him deliver his campaign promise to ban all muslims against opposition.

This all is not complicated. If he overcomes an obstacle to get what he wants, it's a win. If the opposition succeeds in stop him from doing whatever he intended, it's a loss. If he manages to rally the support of his entire party behind legislation he championed it's a win. If he can't get the votes for a thing he championed, it's a loss.
If he does something with the power he got once sworn in, that's not a win. That's a consequence of THE win, the election.

Except he doesn't ban "all muslims". Let's say terrorism is an important issue, even though it's now given how little it affects most people's lives, and the travel ban makes sense, it still is a fucking stupid ban since the main exporter of Islamic extremism in the world, Saudi Arabia, isn't on that list. These totalitarian motherfuckers should have been the first there, hell, I'm all for completely boycotting that backwards shithole until they get out of the middle ages.