Given how spineless Trump seems to be when confronted (judging from his reserved reactions to meeting with the Mexican president and Obama), it's entirely possible that without getting support from the Democrats in Congress he'd just fold on all of his big ideas and let the mainline GOP run the show while he acts as a big rubber stamp. If they can convince him to not give up on his plans that the GOP doesn't support, they could go a long way towards preventing them from getting too much shit done.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Senate Democrats surprising strategy: trying to align with Donald Trump
- Thread starter Good Job Bob
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I'm pretty curious as to what the Venn diagram featuring "Things Democrats would vote for" and "Things Trump would not veto looks like". I suspect this strategy won't actually see much use.
FrontalMonk
Banned
That assumes we're dealing with a good faith party in power. We're clearly not. The plan won't work, and the voters they're trying to woo don't follow the news or details. The Republican party is reenergized by Trump's win and will likely see it as a mandate to go in on full on crazy.
Democrats are welcome to give it a shot, but I'll be on the phone and in the streets outside their office the second this turns south.
I don't know if I agree, there. I mean, obviously Trumps admin is going to be crazy, but between the sorts of rumblings we've been hearing from McConnell and Graham, I think we can expect the majority in these arenas to be a little less rubber stamp than expected. There are a lot of things Trump wants that are total non-starters and Senate leaders seem to realize that.
I think if Dems can work with Trump on some common sense policies, they can position themselves as the rational voices, and then when they obstruct it adds weight to it. Like, the credibility of Congress the last 6 years has been tarnished a lot with the obstructionist politics. By bending a little when it works for you it lends some weight when you do obstruct. Like, "look we worked on you for this, but this doesn't work for us" and I hope the American people will see that for what it is.
Granted, I haven't had much reason to be hopeful for Americans to be rational over the last 10 days, but hey. A guy can dream.
The ol' "if you can't beat em, join em" strategy huh? Fabulous
It's nice to know my supposed allies are going to mostly just let Republicans steam-roll all over my rights and the rights of millions of other minorities. This whole election cycle has made me hate the Democrats so much. Of course, I despise Republicans more (barely) but god-damn. It's so infuriating to be told by centrists Democrats to shut up about my concerns for my rights, to get in line, etc. etc. and then to have them so severely drop the ball that they just say: "well, you're on your own." From primary thru the GE. I just can't stand Democrats much anymore. That I have to stick with them as I have no other choice and that they actively don't give a shit about me? I hate this party.
The Democrats have no standard of principle. Veering to the right for another few decades is not the fucking answer. These idiots should know that the country is way more divided than that. Republicans barely won in numerous counties by the tiniest of margins. They even lost the will of the people....again....this should be a lesson not to compromise with them. Compromise is what contributed to this mess in the first place. Have some principles. Fight for the over 50% of the country who didn't want this. We work so hard trying to drag Democrats to the left but they can't resist the urge to stay centrist and keep fucking over the minorities they claim to care about.
Much as I hate to say it, trying to find common ground is what I want the opposition party to do. Stand up to his objectionable policies (which is most of them), support the few areas of agreement, and try to govern. It's what we wanted the GOP to do. I don't want Dems to be the other party of obstruction at all costs.
That it's also aimed a pitting the GOP against him is the sugar on top.
I mean, this is kind of winning both ways.
1. Trump works with democrats to pass good initiatives. Win for Dems because it makes Republicans look weak and also got stuff done.
2. Trump goes back on his promises. Dems can howl all day about how he failed his voters and how they were willing to work to get stuff done.
There are ways it can all go wrong, but strategically it's a great move.
It's nice to know my supposed allies are going to mostly just let Republicans steam-roll all over my rights and the rights of millions of other minorities. This whole election cycle has made my hate the Democrats so much. Of course, I despise Republicans more (barely) but god-damn. It's so infuriating to be told by centrists Democrats to shut up about my concerns for my rights, to get in line, etc. etc. and then to have them so severely drop the ball that they just say: "well, you're on your own." From primary thru the GE. I just can't stand Democrats much anymore. That I have to stick with them as I have no other choice and that they actively don't give a shit about me? I hate this party.
The Democrats have no standard of principle. Veering to the right for another few decades is not the fucking answer. These idiots should know that the country is way more divided than that. Republicans barely won in numerous counties by the tiniest of margins. They even lost the will of the people....again....this should be a lesson not to compromise with them. Compromise is what contributed to this mess in the first place. Have some principles. Fight for the over 50% of the country who didn't want this. We work so hard trying to drag Democrats to the left but they can't resist the urge to stay centrist and keep fucking over the minorities they claim to care about.
No lies detected.
No, I'm not making that assumption. Dems should deal in good faith until it's clear their partners are not, and then leave the table. They should adamantly oppose most of Trumps proposals. But in areas where they agree, I hope they do try to work together. I can't sit here and lament eight years of GOP obstructionism and then cheer lead the other side to do the same (even if they deserve it). I want at least one party to be trying to make government work, in all circumstances. But if Trump is serious about major infrastructure spending, they should engage to make it as good as possible. If that's being used as a trojan to gut other critical spending, for example, they should oppose it.That assumes we're dealing with a good faith party in power. We're clearly not. The plan won't work, and the voters they're trying to woo don't follow the news or details. The Republican party is reenergized by Trump's win and will likely see it as a mandate to go in on full on crazy.
Democrats are welcome to give it a shot, but I'll be on the phone and in the streets outside their office the second this turns south.
No, I'm not making that assumption. Dems should deal in good faith until it's clear their partners are not, and then leave the table. They should adamantly oppose most of Trumps proposals. But in areas where they agree, I hope they do try to work together. I can't sit here and lament eight years of GOP obstructionism and then cheer lead the other side to do the same (even if they deserve it). I want at least one party to be trying to make government work, in all circumstances. But if Trump is serious about major infrastructure spending, they should engage to make it as good as possible. If that's being used as a trojan to gut other critical spending, for example, they should oppose it.
100%. Some Dems want to be the party of reciprocal obstruction but I think that would be a mistake, since the government not working is THE goal for some Republicans, which means they would ultimately win.
Abinash117
Member
Nothing the Democrats could support will ever come to a vote anyway.
Infrastructure is not a priority; so says McConnell.
Yes this is what some people keep ignoring.
The Democrats have 48 senate members and GOP has 51 might be 52 next month. The GOP has around 230ish house members and the Dems have about 190.
The chance of many of these stuff are not going to pass is high. Unless a significant number of Republicans defect and also that Mitch McConnell and Raul Ryan bring this measures to the floor which is not high.
The Democrats already probably know this and they are going to oppose him on tax cuts and repealing Obamacare.
radios shipping overview
Member
I mean, this is the stuff that's a lot more likely to deliver on what he promised the white working class than any of his rhetoric about walls or immigrants or Muslims, and it's also a hell of a lot less dangerous and destructive. Trump has no ideology and only espoused the extreme policies that would get him elected, so it'll be interesting to see if he can be fully swayed away from those. Obama may already have started putting a bug in his ear that way.
But there can't be one without the other. The Dems can't let Trump get his popular social programs (for white people) while still allowing hateful shit to come down.
But there can't be one without the other. The Dems can't let Trump get his popular social programs (for white people) while still allowing hateful shit to come down.
But that's not what the article was about. It was specifically about infastructure, maternety leave, etc. Things democrats can actually agree on.It's nice to know my supposed allies are going to mostly just let Republicans steam-roll all over my rights and the rights of millions of other minorities. This whole election cycle has made me hate the Democrats so much. Of course, I despise Republicans more (barely) but god-damn. It's so infuriating to be told by centrists Democrats to shut up about my concerns for my rights, to get in line, etc. etc. and then to have them so severely drop the ball that they just say: "well, you're on your own." From primary thru the GE. I just can't stand Democrats much anymore. That I have to stick with them as I have no other choice and that they actively don't give a shit about me? I hate this party.
The Democrats have no standard of principle. Veering to the right for another few decades is not the fucking answer. These idiots should know that the country is way more divided than that. Republicans barely won in numerous counties by the tiniest of margins. They even lost the will of the people....again....this should be a lesson not to compromise with them. Compromise is what contributed to this mess in the first place. Have some principles. Fight for the over 50% of the country who didn't want this. We work so hard trying to drag Democrats to the left but they can't resist the urge to stay centrist and keep fucking over the minorities they claim to care about.
Democrats are certainly going to move right economically, but they're not suddenly going to be anti gay or transgender rights. They're not going to switch positions socially because it's the area where the majority. And soon to be vast majority of the American public agrees with them. Stay vocal, and make sure your congressmen don't get away with any BS. Always remember, it's their job to represent you. Whether it's a big deal to them or not.
But that's not what the article was about. It was specifically about infastructure, maternety leave, etc. Things democrats can actually agree on.
Democrats are certainly going to move right economically, but they're not suddenly going to be anti gay or transgender rights. They're not going to switch positions socially because it's the area where the majority. And soon to be vast majority of the American public agrees with them. Stay vocal, and make sure your congressmen don't get away with any BS. Always remember, it's their job to represent you. Whether it's a big deal to them or not.
Here's the thing:
Going to the right economically also fucks over minorities and even white straight cis men alike who are poor.
Going to the right economically is one of my top 3 biggest concerns with Democrats as a whole and if they do this, they continue their fucking over of minorities/the poor for decades. I despise right-wing economics. I despise every single damn thing those "people" stand for. Democrats going to the right on literally anything is a sign they don't care about the people who voted against this. It's a warning sign that they will/could do, as they have always done, not care about what happens to minorities under Republican reign. They always go back to feeling like they have to be "Republican-lite" whenever something like this happens. It's infuriating. Compromise and sacrificing your voter base to the wolves is not the way. It never has been and never will be.
LegendofJoe
Member
Here's the thing:
Going to the right economically also fucks over minorities and even white straight cis men alike who are poor.
Going to the right economically is one of my top 3 biggest concerns with Democrats as a whole and if they do this, they continue their fucking over of minorities/the poor for decades. I despise right-wing economics. I despise every single damn thing those "people" stand for. Democrats going to the right on literally anything is a sign they don't care about the people who voted against this. It's a warning sign that they will/could do, as they have always done, not care about what happens to minorities under Republican reign. They always go back to feeling like they have to be "Republican-lite" whenever something like this happens. It's infuriating. Compromise and sacrificing your voter base to the wolves is not the way. It never has been and never will be.
If a sizable portion of Democrats go along with the GOP's tax plan I'll be up in arms right there with you, but I don't think that will happen. Working with Trump on things like infrastructure spending, expanding the childcare tax credit, mandating maternity leave, and (in my hopes and dreams) criminal justice reform is in no way a betrayal of the Democratic base. On the other hand not working with him on these things would be.
I agree. But the thing is, democrats weren't voted for. Not in the numbers they needed to be. Democrats lost big time this year, so it's obvious people didn't like them or their policies.Here's the thing:
Going to the right economically also fucks over minorities and even white straight cis men alike who are poor.
Going to the right economically is one of my top 3 biggest concerns with Democrats as a whole and if they do this, they continue their fucking over of minorities/the poor for decades. I despise right-wing economics. I despise every single damn thing those "people" stand for. Democrats going to the right on literally anything is a sign they don't care about the people who voted against this. It's a warning sign that they will/could do, as they have always done, not care about what happens to minorities under Republican reign. They always go back to feeling like they have to be "Republican-lite" whenever something like this happens. It's infuriating. Compromise and sacrificing your voter base to the wolves is not the way. It never has been and never will be.
I suspect Democrats are going to move to the right like they did in the 90's, except to a lesser extreme. I don't think they'll go hand in foot with the GOP, but certainly there will be less talk about social wellfare. It sucks, absolutely, but that's what happens when people don't vote. Progressives obviously didn't care enough about their ideals to show up, so now Democrats are going to look elsewhere.
I'm surprised people think he's going to push things like maternity leave. He can barely keep a sole thought in his head for more than 5 seconds, but he's going to push that through?
I'm not holding my breath. I suspect *if* it came up, it'd be meager, limited to women, and/or full of loopholes. I suspect it'll get steamrolled by other priorities, and the inevitable controversies those will stir up will make it quietly disappear into the rhetorical ether.
I'm not holding my breath. I suspect *if* it came up, it'd be meager, limited to women, and/or full of loopholes. I suspect it'll get steamrolled by other priorities, and the inevitable controversies those will stir up will make it quietly disappear into the rhetorical ether.
I agree. But the thing is, democrats weren't voted for. Not in the numbers they needed to be. Democrats lost big time this year, so it's obvious people didn't like them or their policies.
I suspect Democrats are going to move to the right like they did in the 90's, except to a lesser extreme. I don't think they'll go hand in foot with the GOP, but certainly there will be less talk about social wellfare. It sucks, absolutely, but that's what happens when people don't vote. Progressives obviously didn't care enough about their ideals to show up, so now Democrats are going to look elsewhere.
1) Hillary, despite being fairly centrist (on some issues that are very very key to me at the very least), actually beat Trump by the popular vote by quite a lot. And the margins were incredibly small in numerous counties, even in the Rustbelt. I wouldn't agree at all that they lost big time. A lot of people like their policies. More than they do Republicans. The problem lies in how the EC works. It gives way too much power to small populations that are dominated by bigoted individuals. The problem lies in this narrative that people don't like Democrat policies. It's clear they do. If the lesson to take from this is to go to the right, it's a sacrifice of principles and a fuck you to the people who voted for them. It's letting Republicans continue to get away with their voter suppression and intimidation. It's condoning the dismantling of democracy that has been the Republicans clear goal for decades. It's etc. etc. etc.
2) Blaming progressives. Areyouserious.gif.
This is why I hate the Democrats. We constantly have to drag them leftward but when they can't even rile up their centrist base, we- minorities et al are screwed for it. Don't blame the people who actually are energized and want something more in this country. Blame the apathetic centrists who control the Democrat party. Everything wrong with the Democrats lies solely with them.
If a sizable portion of Democrats go along with the GOP's tax plan I'll be up in arms right there with you, but I don't think that will happen. Working with Drumpf on things like infrastructure spending, expanding the childcare tax credit, mandating maternity leave, and (in my hopes and dreams) criminal justice reform is in no way a betrayal of the Democratic base. On the other hand not working with him on these things would be.
It may be extremist of me to say but I'd rather the Democrats give no ground to fascists.
Pretty much. Why not try to push for the things they always wanted? It's Trump who is in conflict with the gop on those issues.If a sizable portion of Democrats go along with the GOP's tax plan I'll be up in arms right there with you, but I don't think that will happen. Working with Trump on things like infrastructure spending, expanding the childcare tax credit, mandating maternity leave, and (in my hopes and dreams) criminal justice reform is in no way a betrayal of the Democratic base. On the other hand not working with him on these things would be.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.