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[Nocturnowl]

..... wow! *speechless*

Are you insinuating that there's a problem with 2D platformers and/or Donkey Kong?

 

[rosjos44]

Sounds like they want to make First Person shooters. The creative freedom I do not by because of the companies they jumped ship too.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I feel there's a very large difference between losing some people and the image I made.

They could still end up being a good studio, certainly, but they're definitely not who they once were.

This happen to every company you know. At every high added value-oriented company people keep coming and go. It's normal: one person make experience in one company, there is the desire to capitalize on it in another one. Further, many think that working in the same studio, team and working environment is very constraining. And in my opinion, even boring.

 

[Nirolak]

Are you insinuating that there's a problem with 2D platformers and/or Donkey Kong?

I think he's taking issue with people criticizing developers for following their interests just because they don't match their personal game preferences.

 

[daffy]

Silicon Knights
From Eternal Darkness to Too Human.

Rare
From many successful and critically acclaimed games to Kinect Sports.

Factor 5
From Rogue Squadron to... nothing.

Armature
In the desert for God knows how long.

There's a trend people.

Nintendo acts as a supervisor and we all know Retro had the chance to create original IPs. The result? Twisted Metal and Madden.

Miyasus had to step in and save the whole company with his Metroid Prime concept.

I respect Retro Studios as programmers, but they can't create shit, and that's why they will stick to classic Nintendo IPs.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I think he's taking issue with people criticizing developers for following their interests just because they don't match their personal game preferences.

More of the third quote i'm referring to, the first two I can understand being a bit bamboozled at.

 

[Nirolak]

This happen to every company you know. At every high added value-oriented company people keep coming and go. It's normal: one person make experience in one company, there is the desire to capitalize on it in another one. Further, many think that working in the same studio, team and working environment is very constraining. And in my opinion, even boring.

This kind of turn over most certainly does not happen at every development studio.

Once you're in a lead role, you're actually defining your projects, so you're far more likely to stay.

Lots of churn in lower ranks isn't uncommon, but it's the top that really sticks out here.

 

[Easy_D]

I'm a bit surprised more of them didn't join Armature.

That place has like five or six very senior Retro staff from the Metroid Prime era.

Maybe they just don't get along very well. I also hope this guy can contribute to idSoftware. The Retro guys are incredibly talented

 

[Drkirby]

After reading the "Iwata asks: Xenoblade", one of the main reasons for the high quality of Nintendo's titles is actually Nintendo SPD. They have much more control than most people would expect.

Which is likely why people left Retro, the people at Retro wanted to have their own Creative Freedom. Though I have to think there is likely a reason Nintendo has canceled every original title Retro tried to make.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Damn that's sad to hear. Retro was filled with some amazing talent and Nintendo just drove them all away. I wish him the best like those before him that left.

 

[Shiggy]

Sounds like they want to make First Person shooters. The creative freedom I do not by because of the companies they jumped ship too.

You can barely have less creative freedom when not working with Nintendo. Sometimes this might be great for quality, but it can be extremely frustrating when you are trying to make critical decisions.

Are you insinuating that there's a problem with 2D platformers and/or Donkey Kong?

Nintendo has done six 2D platformers on Wii, why not have a 3D title from a studio capable of producing them? That could've catered to a new audience.

 

[[Nintex]]

Ken Kutaragi
From SNES soundchip to unemployment

SGI
From N64 to bankruptcy

ARTX
From GameCube to being bought out by ATi

Silicon Knights
From Eternal Darkness to Too Human.

Rare
From many successful and critically acclaimed games to Kinect Sports.

Factor 5
From Rogue Squadron to... nothing.

Armature
In the desert for God knows how long.

Cing
From adventure games to bankruptcy

Sara Brunei
From Cubivore to bankruptcy

Param
From Doshin to bankruptcy

Genius Sonority
From exclusive Wii RPG to Pokemon Typing

There's a trend people.

Yep there is, don't work with Nintendo(?!!)

 

[Hyuga]

Are you insinuating that there's a problem with 2D platformers and/or Donkey Kong?

No, I'm not! Another example of how defensive some Nintendo fans are if they "think" someone attacks their "holy grail oMg sO aWeSoMe Nintendo IP's".

 

[JordanLMiller]

These departures pretty much point towards DKCR2 though.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I think he's taking issue with people criticizing developers for following their interests just because they don't match their personal game preferences.

During the early stages of Retro Studios as developer, things were incredibly messy, with almost 200 people working without a decent organization. Deadlines were not respected and games were not progressing. The football simulator was crap, Raven Blade was way beyond the capabilities of the Studio. Developers worked on 5 different projects and not a single of these was progressing decently. Jeff Spangenberg left because of that story of photos on the web and later Steve Barcia took over.

During this time, people at Retro were mostly free to take their own decisions, but since in these three years they were completely unable to make something decent and to finish a single software, Nintendo bought the 100% of the company, put Barcia at the exit door and let Michael Kelbaugh, a long-standing Nintendo man, become the new president. Since this moment, Nintendo said exactly what Retro had to do and not to do. 100 people were laid off and the remaining worked 80-100 hours per week to meet the imposed deadlines. Eventually it worked! Since this moment, only 60-80 employees worked at the studio, mostly on a single project, but every one of them was of the highest quality!

So, people saying Nintendo should let Retro be free, I answer them obviously it will not be the case. Reason are historically obvious. And I think it's better like that.

 

[rosjos44]

You can barely have less creative freedom when not working with Nintendo. Sometimes this might be great for quality, but it can be extremely frustrating when you are trying to make critical decisions.

So lets compare the companies that left Nintendo and see how they are doing now? Like a poster stated above their has to be a reason why Nintendo did not run with most of their projects. A. they were bad or B. they did not fit Nintendos company portfolio / image.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Nintendo has done six 2D platformers on Wii, why not have a 3D title from a studio capable of producing them? That could've catered to a new audience.

I may as well just admit to being so over the moon about getting a new DKC to the point where I tend to not take such things into account.

@Hyuga: I did misinterpret your post, my apologies

 

[The Technomancer]

So, people saying Nintendo should let Retro be free, I answer them obviously it will not be the case. Reason are historically obvious. And I think it's better like that.

Just because that's how Retro was without Nintendo's steep oversight doesn't mean that that's what they'd regress to if Nintendo let up on the reigns a bit.

 

[TheSeks]

Western Direction != OMG FPS 24/7, guys. Settle down.

 

[Hyuga]

@Hyuga: I did misinterpret your post, my apologies

No problem =)

 

[The Technomancer]

Western Direction != OMG FPS 24/7, guys. Settle down.

Call it jaded cynicism.

 

[Shiggy]

So lets compare the companies that left Nintendo and see how they are doing now? Like a poster stated above their has to be a reason why Nintendo did not run with most of their projects. A. they were bad or B. they did not fit Nintendos company portfolio / image.

I didn't say that it's bad, just that it's frustrating for some employees. And comparing what happened to other studios is kind of difficult because of differences concerning workforce and budget when it comes to Nintendo-funded and non-Nintendo-funded projects.

I may as well just admit to being so over the moon about getting a new DKC to the point where I tend to not take such things into account.

That's just fine, having played MP3 most recently I miss such games to a certain extent though. I, however, have enough of 2D platformers for now and just wait for the next 2D Mario

 

[L00P]

Hopefully the people who left Retro won't have their talent wasted...Right?

 

[Buddha Beam]

It's no surprise that both Pearson and Wikan left. I've heard of several Retro Studios employees that they were not very happy to be put on the DKC game, they wanted to take the direction many other Western studios pursued - but that's not what Nintendo Japan liked. These departures pretty much point towards DKCR2 though.

NCL was right to not let them make something more along the lines of typical western fare. Those kinds games don't typically sell well on Nintendo systems. It saddens me that even Retro apparently doesn't get that.

But then, the biggest problem, generally speaking, with western development studios is that they don't want to be run like a business and would rather just make something fun even of it has no hope of doing well in the marketplace.
... By contrast though, Japanese studios are the exact opposite. Too much executive control.

 

[apana]

Nintendo may just want to invest in building a giant wall around Retro Studios. That way no designers will be able to escape.

 

[AceBandage]

Nintendo may just want to invest in building a giant wall around Retro Studios. That way no designers will be able to escape.

Isn't that what Rockstar did?

 

[Ganondorfo]

What kind of games did ID software make after doom 3?

I think they didnt make anymore awesome games like doom 3 after that game.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

With all these people leaving Retro soon it may be a thing of the past.

 

[Luckyman]

This has to do with hardware that Nintendo uses. If you have stuck Wii exclusive after the industry has moved on there is real concern..

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Nintendo may just want to invest in building a giant wall around Retro Studios. That way no designers will be able to escape.

:lol

 

[markot]

With all these people leaving Retro soon it may be a thing of the past.

Doubt it. No offensivity to the staff, but it seems like Nintendo is what pushes Retro. They fixed and saved metroid.

 

[vitacola]

EDIT: Also, I can't blame them for leaving. Retro Studios has been trying to make original titles, and to date, they've made three Metroid games, one Mario game, one Donkey Kong game, and nothing of their own creation.

They made a Mario game? Which one?

 

[Buddha Beam]

Nintendo may just want to invest in building a giant wall around Retro Studios. That way no designers will be able to escape.

Miyamoto would just come in late during the construction of the wall and make them rebuild it with a moat.

"It would be a better moat of it had... more arrigators!"

 

[electroplankton]

No, I'm not! Another example of how defensive some Nintendo fans are if they "think" someone attacks their "holy grail oMg sO aWeSoMe Nintendo IP's".

The same happens when someone goes against software houses producing niche and useless jRPG no one really cares.
Anyway, I can understand the search of freedom from an independent team which develops exclusively for a console, but from a first party developer I'd expect it just makes what the company wants, even if they're some sort of God (and Retro Studios is not).

 

[apana]

Miyamoto would just come in late during the construction of the wall and make them rebuild it with a moat.

"It would be a better moat of it had... more arrigators!"

Retro Studios new headquarters:

 

[mr_chun]

I've been worried for a while that Retro was going to feel stifled by Nintendo slapping them with reboots and whatnot. Not that they didn't do an amazing job with their projects, and take Metroid in particular in a direction that completely changed the franchise. But it's like, maybe they want to do something brand new for once. And it'd be a waste of their talent to not let them do it. At the same time though, the Nintendo-franchise projects were probably a nice paycheck... guess it comes down to what's more important- creativity and freedom, or the money. Oh well, we'll be alright.

 

[Father_Brain]

I don't know enough about the inner workings of Retro to make any predictions about what exactly this means for them, but I will say this:

If Nintendo genuinely wants Wii U to succeed with the Western core market, they need new IP aimed at that market. So if Retro's Wii U project(s) is based on an existing first-party IP, Nintendo has squandered a key opportunity to expand the system's appeal beyond the Nintendo faithful.

 

[Octorockin']

Nintendo may just want to invest in building a giant wall around Retro Studios. That way no designers will be able to escape.

Miyamoto would just come in late during the construction of the wall and make them rebuild it with a moat.

"It would be a better moat of it had... more arrigators!"

Oh man, funny stuff. : P


Metroid Prime and DKCR are my favorite Retro games, so I'd say that their talent has remained steadily consistent.

From what I got from DK's Iwata Asks feature, Mike Wikan brought a very smart and creative dynamic to Retro, so I can only wish him the best at id Software if he feels like that environment suits him well.

 

[wsippel]

Which is likely why people left Retro, the people at Retro wanted to have their own Creative Freedom. Though I have to think there is likely a reason Nintendo has canceled every original title Retro tried to make.

While that might be true, I also believe that SPD has some of the most capable guys in the industry. I do understand developers wanting creative freedom, and I would want it too, but I actually don't even think SPD prevents that. Quite a few of the titles they supervise are too innovative for that. But they're paid to nitpick, and that's what many "creative" guys can't stomach, mostly because they're full of themselves. Perfectly understandable, I'm no different.

From what I gather, SPD is basically the same as half of NeoGAF. No matter how great something is, someone will find something to nitpick. We usually discover those issues after the deed is done and the game is released. The guys at SPD are paid to find them during development. As frustrating as that might be for developers, it's actually a very good concept. Unbiased outside opinions from competent and knowledgeable guys are worth a lot.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

I do hope that this doesn't lead to another Armature situation, where Retro were left in complete dissarray for years.

NCL's leash is too tight; not just on Retro, but on all of their teams. They're in real need of some fresh, new IP (particularily for the 3DS)

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I don't know enough about the inner workings of Retro to make any predictions about what exactly this means for them, but I will say this:

If Nintendo genuinely wants Wii U to succeed with the Western core market, they need new IP aimed at that market. So if Retro's Wii U project(s) is based on an existing first-party IP, Nintendo has squandered a key opportunity to expand the system's appeal beyond the Nintendo faithful.

Another thing to point out is that, looking at their dev teams, NSMB3 and a new game from Retro are most of the major core games they could put out for WiiU before 2014 so having Retro make DKC2 would just be strange since they would need essentially everything other than 2D Platformers at that point for WiiU.

 

[Nirolak]

During the early stages of Retro Studios as developer, things were incredibly messy, with almost 200 people working without a decent organization. Deadlines were not respected and games were not progressing. The football simulator was crap, Raven Blade was way beyond the capabilities of the Studio. Developers worked on 5 different projects and not a single of these was progressing decently. Jeff Spangenberg left because of that story of photos on the web and later Steve Barcia took over.

During this time, people at Retro were mostly free to take their own decisions, but since in these three years they were completely unable to make something decent and to finish a single software, Nintendo bought the 100% of the company, put Barcia at the exit door and let Michael Kelbaugh, a long-standing Nintendo man, become the new president. Since this moment, Nintendo said exactly what Retro had to do and not to do. 100 people were laid off and the remaining worked 80-100 hours per week to meet the imposed deadlines. Eventually it worked! Since this moment, only 60-80 employees worked at the studio, mostly on a single project, but every one of them was of the highest quality!

So, people saying Nintendo should let Retro be free, I answer them obviously it will not be the case. Reason are historically obvious. And I think it's better like that.

I think a lot of people forget that a studio is defined by the people who work there, not the room they work in.

At this point, basically all Nintendo has managed to retain is the logo on the building. It's a nice logo, but it's not what Retro was.

Retro may still make great games, but they're a different studio than they were, and I feel that's a point worthy of criticism.

If you're just going to replace everyone who works there, why bother buying them?

 

[nincompoop]

Don't know why people are so surprised that Retro is filled with wannabe dudebro designers, it was pretty obvious after playing Metroid Prime 3.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I know Retro is incredibly talented as a whole. Was fan support truly there, though? I mean Metroid Prime did really well, but comparatively, how did Echoes and Corruption do?

I mean the games were great, but if the appropriate support wasn't there, how do you really blame Nintendo for wanting them to go in another direction in some respects? Especially since Nintendo did heavily market the Prime trilogy.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I know Retro is incredibly talented as a whole. Was fan support truly there, though? I mean Metroid Prime did really well, but comparatively, how did Echoes and Corruption do?

I mean the games were great, but if the appropriate support wasn't there, how do you really blame Nintendo for wanting them to go in another direction in some respects? Especially since Nintendo did heavily market the Prime trilogy.

MP1: Around 2m worldwide
MP2: 800k worldwide
MP3: At least 1.3m worldwide

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Why is this made to be such a big deal? Western Developers constantly move about. If this wasnt a Nintendo owned entity, would we even care?

 

[krypt0nian]

It's sad that the Prime team were never allowed to make a game that they wanted before they scattered to the wind.

I wish them well creatively at their new homes.

 

[A Link to the Past]

They made a Mario game? Which one?

The upcoming Mario Kart 3DS.

 

[Boney]

If you're just going to replace everyone who works there, why bother buying them?

Hasn't Iwata said many times this same stuff, regarding why they don't buy more studios? And that having partners like NLG works better for them.

 

[AceBandage]

Why is this made to be such a big deal? Western Developers constantly move about. If this wasnt a Nintendo owned entity, would we even care?

Like I said earlier. It feeds the Nintendo is doomed idgits.