• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Shadow of the Tomb Raider Review Thread

Xenon

Member
QPRYx8K.jpg


?

You know why it got so low ratings it didn't bring anything new to the table just like tomb raider.


No, it got low raitings because outside of the first level and some nice graphics the game was pretty aweful. If anything it got higher ratings than it deserved for being a launch title.
 

sublimit

Banned
I'm not blaming the developer. For all I know, Eidos killed the series, and in fact developing one Tomb Raider a year was probably an heroic feat, even if the games were derivative. It's true they improved the formula to some extent, but those kind of changes were minor at the end of the day, and comparable in scope to the changes we've seen in the new trilogy.
I'm not saying that you did. But it was definitely not the engine's fault either.

Also the problem with reviewers who are keep complaining about how every new game in an established series should always try to re-invent the wheel needs to stop someday (but i know it never will) . Every series builts an identity based on a particular concept that is defined by its gameplay and then builts and improves upon it but not to the extend that it should become something completely different. Tomb Raider's concept wasn't as many think that you had a sexy,strong independed heroine who raided tombs in romantic and picturesque locations but it's true concept was that you controlled a character who was a projection of your skills as a player as you manually calculated difficult jumps that often required precision and quick reflexes as you explored claustrophobic places and had to solve puzzles on your own in order to progress from point A to point B. You wanted to progress not because you wanted to see what will happen next in the story but because the gameplay felt rewarding and you wanted more from it. No help,no adjusted difficulties just a clear vision from designers and creators who knew how to keep the interest of the player each and every minute of the game through a totally manual,continuous and meaningful interaction with the game's world.
That was the game's concept and thanks to clueless,idiotic reviewers who wanted the series to re-invent the wheel they criticized unfairly the lack of innovation. They are doing the same now with Dragon Quest (even if they still giving it good scores) when they don't realize that part of a game's appeal is it's original identity.

Unfortunatelly partly thanks to the reviewers,partly thanks to Eidos greed and partly thanks to fans who were either too young to play on their own or too young to understand the appeal of the classics (beyond a superficial admiration of Lara that still haunts the series to this day) that original identity has been lost. Maybe forever.
 
Last edited:

xviper

Member
Any exclusive with a blue box will get automatically a 90+ score. That's the law. /s
100% true

Spiderman scored 87MC even though it's very repetitive, if it wasn't a sony exclusive i'm positive it would have scored in the 70s

God of War's 94MC is one of the biggest jokes of this generation considering Witcher 3, which is obviously the best game of the generation for me and most gamers, only scored 92MC

Shadow of the colossus ( which is my second favorite game of all time) scored 91 in both the "Remake" and the original game, the 'Remake" is a joke, it's only a visuals and performance upgrade and yet it maintained the same score, while the original Gears of war 1 scored 94MC and Gears of war: Ultimate edition ( which is also just a visual and performance upgrade) scored 82MC
 

odhin

Member
God of War's 94MC is one of the biggest jokes of this generation considering Witcher 3, which is obviously the best game of the generation for me and most gamers, only scored 92MC

"OBVIOUSLY the best game of the generation" <------> "for me and most gamers"
Subjectivity, how does it work again.

Not to sh*t on your cereal, but I think that by now people should already know that comparing review scores like this is a big "rabbit hole".

I dont even like Witcher 3 that much tbh, so there it is
 

Madflavor

Member
I gotta admit I wasn't expecting it to dip below 80. That actually surprise me.

It's too bad really. Tomb Raider 2013 was a great game, and a wonderful take on Lara. It was marketed as the origin story for Lara Croft, and wanted to tell the tale of her first adventure, and how she came to be this tomb raiding badass. By the climax of the game, Lara wields two pistols to fire at the villain, symbolizing the birth of the Tomb Raider we've all come to know.

But after that, is where the new Tomb Raider games fell apart, and I say that as someone who enjoys Rise. At least the gameplay aspect of it. But Rise is pretty much Lara being a survivor again, her personality is even more serious, and she isn't using her signature dual pistols, nor did the devs ever plan to have her, which brings to question why they ended TR2013 with the pistols in the first place. I honestly don't know what happened. It was almost as if they changed their vision of this new Lara sometime after TR2013.

All I know is this new Lara kinda sucks. She isn't fun. The old Lara loved what she did. She was charismatic, charming, sexy, fun, and had a sense of humor. This new Lara is such a fucking drag.
 

Darak

Member
I'm not saying that you did. But it was definitely not the engine's fault either.

Well, the engine had an important part in the original trilogy's failure; the late 90's were times of fast-paced technology advances, times when most of the things we take for granted in 3D games were being invented or discovered. You just couldn't release a game with the same technology in year 2000 compared to 1996 and expect it to fly, we're talking Duke Nukem to Deus Ex levels of change. Tomb Raider was an early PlayStation game, at the beginning of the 3D revolution, while the late entries were released well after Metal Gear Solid. Those grid-based caves and environments, amazing in TR just because you could explore them in 3D and that was something new, were already considered crude and outdated even before the PS2 released.

That was the game's concept and thanks to clueless,idiotic reviewers who wanted the series to re-invent the wheel they criticized unfairly the lack of innovation.

I totally agree. I also find the call for innovation terribly misguided.

I'm perfectly happy with franchises fitting a position, with their characteristic gameplay, protagonist, theme, world, etc. I like innovation, but when it is presented as a new thing. Existing franchises should focus on their existing value proposition. However, lack of innovation shouldn't mean lack of improvements. The TR reboot was well received but there was also a lot of room for improvement (the writing is almost universally reviled, for example) which have been left untouched, with the two sequels essentially following the same formula to a fault. That was also true in the original trilogy, and not only due to the engine. For example, the commitment to movement by animation, tank controls, and fixed size steps made Lara hard to control (using the walking button to prevent unintended falls was a kludge), combat was horrible with crude damage avoidance options, and camera handling was extremely primitive. AOD tried to fix most of those things, but it also tried to do a hundred other things at the same time, and it tragically collapsed under its own weight.

Don't get me wrong, TR platforming was very good for the era. It successfully translated the Prince of Persia mechanics to 3D (actually doing a much better job than the real Prince of Persia 3D). It was understandably primitive, though, and should have been replaced with better platforming in later entries. We got… other things instead. Same thing with environmental puzzles, exploration, etc.
 

Nethernova

Member
100% true

Spiderman scored 87MC even though it's very repetitive, if it wasn't a sony exclusive i'm positive it would have scored in the 70s

God of War's 94MC is one of the biggest jokes of this generation considering Witcher 3, which is obviously the best game of the generation for me and most gamers, only scored 92MC

Shadow of the colossus ( which is my second favorite game of all time) scored 91 in both the "Remake" and the original game, the 'Remake" is a joke, it's only a visuals and performance upgrade and yet it maintained the same score, while the original Gears of war 1 scored 94MC and Gears of war: Ultimate edition ( which is also just a visual and performance upgrade) scored 82MC


SO EDGY M8 /s
 
The game look amazing so I dunno why the score is low. It is someone have a grudge against this. Let made this clear, a exploration centre game won;t sell much nowsday.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
100% true

Spiderman scored 87MC even though it's very repetitive, if it wasn't a sony exclusive i'm positive it would have scored in the 70s

God of War's 94MC is one of the biggest jokes of this generation considering Witcher 3, which is obviously the best game of the generation for me and most gamers, only scored 92MC

Shadow of the colossus ( which is my second favorite game of all time) scored 91 in both the "Remake" and the original game, the 'Remake" is a joke, it's only a visuals and performance upgrade and yet it maintained the same score, while the original Gears of war 1 scored 94MC and Gears of war: Ultimate edition ( which is also just a visual and performance upgrade) scored 82MC

Do you have any evidence of this bias? I would love to know your sources since you seem to be making a lot of claims with this post of yours.
 

evanm137

Neo Member
Honestly, I could care less if the reviews are just good rather than great. I'm still incredibly excited to play this game, and I'm sure I'll love it regardless. The first 2 in the reboot series were amazing, and I doubt there'll be a noticeable drop in quality.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Xbox fanboy trying to downplay Sony's catalog. Nothing new.

Sony making SP games that don’t cater to a person = fanboy talk. Doesn’t really work that way. Neither if the said person also have a PS4.
 

prag16

Banned
Holy fuck that Waypoint review is absolutely embarrassing. I think someone earlier in the topic said this, and I agree; if I showed that to any of my more 'casual' gamer friends (well, they probably play games more than I do nowadays, but they don't and haven't followed the industry as closely) they would undoubtedly become very confused and at best think it was some kind of parody or satire piece.

The entire outlet is an complete embarrassment. Worst of the worst.

(User banned (duration pending): Inflammatory generalizations, vilifying games journalism, downplaying the impact of hate movements and minimizing the historical effects of colonialism, long history of similar behavior and numerous severe infractions.)
 
Last edited:

-MD-

Member
It is funny when people say game play need to evolve. Easy top say but how? 90% of the people won't have any idea.

How about bring back actual platforming? Some puzzles that don't involve me pressing a button and locating a glowing object to solve it? Can we ditch the absolutely fucking pointless looting of flowers and sticks just because "we need crafting" in the game? A single likable character?

Lots of things they could do to improve this shit trilogy of games.
 

jonnyp

Member
Two first games were mediocre. Bad plot, dialogue and voice acting and this one seems even worse in those regards judging by some of the reviews. Still, the games are entertaining enough for me to buy on sale but I will never understand how these games get scored so high.
 
How about bring back actual platforming? Some puzzles that don't involve me pressing a button and locating a glowing object to solve it? Can we ditch the absolutely fucking pointless looting of flowers and sticks just because "we need crafting" in the game? A single likable character?

Lots of things they could do to improve this shit trilogy of games.
Do we really want to go back to the time of literal the leap of faith and hope you jump to the right spot? The original tomb raider don't have much of a story in the first place.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I don't think people who excited for this game should be worries about. 78 MC is damn decent score, Catherine is my GOTY for 2011 has got 79MC and that didn't stop me from enjoy the crap out of the game.

Besides.....
doest matter how low the MC is for TR, it still going to sell more than DQXI and VC4 even tho both games got higher metacritic.
tenor.gif
 
Last edited:
I don't think people who excited for this game should be worries about. 78 MC is damn decent score, Catherine is my GOTY for 2011 has got 79MC and that didn't stop me from enjoy the crap out of the game.

Besides.....
doest matter how low the MC is for TR, it still going to sell more than DQXI and VC4 even tho both games got higher metacritic.
tenor.gif
Very true, I never listen to reviewers really. On the flip side, this is one of those trilogies that came off as wanting to pander to modern critics and modern "game journalists" unlike something like Catherine, so not a good sign.
 
Last edited:

Wonkytonk

Member
100% true

Spiderman scored 87MC even though it's very repetitive, if it wasn't a sony exclusive i'm positive it would have scored in the 70s

God of War's 94MC is one of the biggest jokes of this generation considering Witcher 3, which is obviously the best game of the generation for me and most gamers, only scored 92MC

Shadow of the colossus ( which is my second favorite game of all time) scored 91 in both the "Remake" and the original game, the 'Remake" is a joke, it's only a visuals and performance upgrade and yet it maintained the same score, while the original Gears of war 1 scored 94MC and Gears of war: Ultimate edition ( which is also just a visual and performance upgrade) scored 82MC

Parody account, or?
 

DavidGzz

Member
Yeah, I don't get the Witcher 3 love since its combat is just not enjoyable after a couple hours. Great story though. But if the gameplay of a game is lacking...Spiderman is better. I love its combat and web-slinging.

Btw, I love games like the Witcher but when the movement and combat suck I can't be bothered. Dragon's Dogma, Dark Souls etc crush it overall.
 
Last edited:

ruvikx

Banned
Yeah, I don't get the Witcher 3 love since its combat is just not enjoyable after a couple hours. Great story though. But if the gameplay of a game is lacking...Spiderman is better. I love its combat and web-slinging.

Different strokes for different folks etc. but IMO the simplicity of The Witcher III's combat is part of its success as a game. Two swords, a handful of magic powers, fighting based upon parry, dodge, fast attack, strong attack & applying oils/drinking potions. Add the extreme violence of the encounters into the mix (+ the highest difficulty) & we get pretty intense combat scenarios. The only part which was severely lacking was horse combat (swinging that sword on the back of Roach was awkward, to say the least). I say its "simplicity" was successful because unlike other RPG's, the complexity of the system lies within its loot & upgrade possibilities, not in an actual finnicky nature of the combat (it isn't) because certain RPG's can get overly complicated with the button configurations & unintuitive control system. Witcher III is as simple as a first person shooter to pick up & play.

As for Shadow, I've been reading/watching some of these reviews & so far the "negatives" mostly consist of people finally realizing certain elements (animation, AI, Lara's character) just weren't any good to begin with & haven't evolved since 2013. That's mostly the issue with the "samey" nature of the game, i.e. when certain core elements (pun unintended) weren't so great to begin with, the lack of evolution starts to be detrimental to the whole oeuvre.

But, I will say a quote from the French site jeuxvideo.com did get me partially interested: http://www.jeuxvideo.com/test/91810...r-lara-n-est-elle-que-l-ombre-d-elle-meme.htm

En effet, ce qui représente le mieux ce nouvel épisode est sans nul doute son atmosphère et sa volonté absolue de revenir aux origines de la saga à travers une histoire bien plus ancrée dans un exotisme de chaque instant renvoyant par moments aux premières heures de Tomb Raider III.

"In effect, what represents the new episode best is its atmosphere & absolute will to return to the origins of the saga in a story anchored in exoticism which occasionally is reminiscent of the first hours of Tomb Raider III".

Tomb Raider III aka adventures of Lara Croft circa 1998! A game & India level in which we had the pleasure of shooting monkeys before they stole first aid kits. Good times.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Sony making SP games that don’t cater to a person = fanboy talk. Doesn’t really work that way. Neither if the said person also have a PS4.
You're always in threads saying things are getting pass and rated higher because they're PS exclusive.

That is fanboy talk.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
You're always in threads saying things are getting pass and rated higher because they're PS exclusive.

That is fanboy talk.

That’s not because I have something against Sony or the PlayStation brand, it’s just my opinion. I dunno, maybe I repeat myself too much sometimes. But I still don’t see myself as some fanboy when I buy all platforms. If I hated Sony then I wouldn’t have bought every console they made.

I just have my own opinion about their games gets received this generation.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
That’s not because I have something against Sony or the PlayStation brand, it’s just my opinion. I dunno, maybe I repeat myself too much sometimes. But I still don’t see myself as some fanboy when I buy all platforms. If I hated Sony then I wouldn’t have bought every console they made.

I just have my own opinion about their games gets received this generation.

I think it's clear when you say things like, "It's incredible what exclusive sticker on the correct platform can do to a mediocre game." And agreeing with people who downplays these exclusives are being repetitive.

You believe PS exclusives are getting good scores because they're PS exclusives, and it does come off as fanboyish.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
I think it's clear when you say things like, "It's incredible what exclusive sticker on the correct platform can do to a mediocre game." And agreeing with people who downplays these exclusives are being repetitive.

You believe PS exclusives are getting good scores because they're PS exclusives, and it does come off as fanboyish.

Hey man, that’s your logic. I can’t or won’t change that.

In my world you are allowed to criticize exclusives without being a fanboy. If I didn’t play Xbox, but mainly on my PS4, hated the exclusives and only played multi platform. What kind of a fanboy would you then call me?

Not that it matters, I’m just curious
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Hey man, that’s your logic. I can’t or won’t change that.

In my world you are allowed to criticize exclusives without being a fanboy. If I didn’t play Xbox, but mainly on my PS4, hated the exclusives and only played multi platform. What kind of a fanboy would you then call me?

Not that it matters, I’m just curious

Saying "It's incredible what exclusive sticker on the correct platform can do to a mediocre game" doesn't sound like an opinionated statement. You honestly believe that's happening and you have no problem telling other people.

Also....

The_Mike said:
If Xbox One has God of War and other PS4 exclusives I have a feeling they would get mediocre scores and not be system sellers.

But hey, maybe I’m just biased.

Biased against what? You've been doing this with all of the major PS exclusives released this year (as far as I can remember) and I think people can see what you're doing - lol.
 

Humdinger

Member
Sony making SP games that don’t cater to a person = fanboy talk. Doesn’t really work that way. Neither if the said person also have a PS4.

You missed the point. I was talking about his statement that Spider-Man only got an 87 metacritic because it was a PS4 exclusive, and that if it wasn't, it would've scored in the 70s. That's ridiculously fanboyish. You do similar things, as others above have pointed out.

I don't mind, btw. I'm trying to get a sense of who the fanboys on the forum are, so these kind of comments help me figure that out.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
That’s not because I have something against Sony or the PlayStation brand, it’s just my opinion. I dunno, maybe I repeat myself too much sometimes. But I still don’t see myself as some fanboy when I buy all platforms. If I hated Sony then I wouldn’t have bought every console they made.

I just have my own opinion about their games gets received this generation.

giphy-downsized-large.gif
 

Inviusx

Member
Why do people always act like 7's and 8's are bad scores?

Because all the big outlets have been way to liberal in handing out 9s and 10s to games that would traditionally review as 6/7/8. For that reason 9s and 10s are now normal regular scores for "good" games and anything less is seen as garbage.
 

ruvikx

Banned
Because all the big outlets have been way to liberal in handing out 9s and 10s to games that would traditionally review as 6/7/8. For that reason 9s and 10s are now normal regular scores for "good" games and anything less is seen as garbage.

That was probably correct last gen but recently I've had really good times with games considered a 7, i.e. Mad Max among others, aka games which received a middling score for reasons totally unrelated to the actual technical quality of the software. Here's a small example of one of those "7" reviews I was talking about (regarding Mad Max), from PC World a couple of years ago:

Is it a bad game? Absolutely not. On the contrary, Ubisoft's open-world template is perfect for churning out market-friendly games that tick all the boxes of "What People Want." Or, perhaps, "What You Want."...And honestly, Mad Max's formula is still to some extent "What I Want." Just not as much as a few years ago.

Yeah, no comment. It plays fine & the combat was fun & solid based upon an Arkham template. There were no game breaking glitches either. The 7 score in & of itself is probably totally fair, it's just 'other' overhyped 9's which make no sense in the context of more grounded ratings with less hyperbole (laughable "Citizen Kane" moments of gaming can get f*cked). To be fair I'm seeing something similar here with Tomb Raider, i.e. for gamers who want a violent gore-filled journey through the jungle stabbing people in the neck, hunting for relics & solving doable puzzles, they're probably going to have a really good time.

Obviously as a fan of the first classics I want more from a Tomb Raider, but I can understand 'why' some people enjoy the reboots. Although I still insist the animations are lacklustre, the platforming is too easy & silly (ledge-hopping overused) & Lara's character (a marketing point) is totally lacking in every way, especially in terms of "becoming the Tomb Raider" she was apparently meant to be. She's just a whinging, whining self-absorbed little rich bitch who's addicted to killing & adrenaline in these reboots, IMO.
 

Lokimaru

Member
I'm seriously starting to think Game Reviewers don't really know how to play games anymore. I'm playing on Hard Mode (No assists) and having a Blast. Sure I die a lot but I died in the old school game just as much and learned from my mistakes just like in this one. I actually Walk through Tombs on high Alert for Traps now. I loved the other game but I feel like i'm finally playing a TOMB RAIDER game worthy of the name.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Im kinda lost on the scores for this one. This is the game that a majority of the people asked for when talking about the reboot of Tomb Raider. More puzzles, less combat. Thats literally this game and now people are saying its average?

I'm not saying this game is a 10 by any means, but this appears to be one of those times where arm chair developer gamers think they know everything and want a game they have crafted in their mind, but then relaize that they thing they wanted wasn't actually what they wanted, but instead were just looking for something wrong.

Enix did a pitiful job of showing Shadow off as well. Everything they showed actively turned me off because it looked like Tomb Raider Arkham Knight. When in reality, its nothing like that.
 

ruvikx

Banned
Im kinda lost on the scores for this one. This is the game that a majority of the people asked for when talking about the reboot of Tomb Raider. More puzzles, less combat. Thats literally this game and now people are saying its average?

Something was lost in translation then. The platforming was always shite in Crystal's Tomb Raiders (especially the reboots), therefor reducing the number of shootbang moments & increasing the amount of platforming in its current state (without fixing the tired old auto-platforming monkey ledge hoping "on rails" experience) is not what most old school Tomb Raider fans asked for.

Puzzles have little to do with anything, i.e. Tomb Raider was originally about satisfaction at finding a path & navigating a harsh environment using skill, not just the occasional puzzle moment. The only real good part about Rise of The Tomb Raider for example was the action. So less of that & more useless platforming is probably a sort of own goal from the devs.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Something was lost in translation then. The platforming was always shite in Crystal's Tomb Raiders (especially the reboots), therefor reducing the number of shootbang moments & increasing the amount of platforming in its current state (without fixing the tired old auto-platforming monkey ledge hoping "on rails" experience) is not what most old school Tomb Raider fans asked for.

Puzzles have little to do with anything, i.e. Tomb Raider was originally about satisfaction at finding a path & navigating a harsh environment using skill, not just the occasional puzzle moment. The only real good part about Rise of The Tomb Raider for example was the action. So less of that & more useless platforming is probably a sort of own goal from the devs.

I agree that the platforming style in the reboot isnt what the original games were about but that's not what I was referring to. These games weren't ever made with those fans in mind which is a valid argument against the series to begin with.

But when it comes to crtisisms of this series it's always been it's too "uncharted." And with each sequel they became less uncharted and the narrative against it has now changed once again.

Shadow is literally the opposite of the original reboot and people still aren't happy? It doesn't make sense lot of sense.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
A bit of the ending was patched

what was patched?

Ie0J3ZE.png


TOMB RAIDER IS NEVER GONNA BECOME THE TOMB RAIDER???
 
I agree that the platforming style in the reboot isnt what the original games were about but that's not what I was referring to. These games weren't ever made with those fans in mind which is a valid argument against the series to begin with.

But when it comes to crtisisms of this series it's always been it's too "uncharted." And with each sequel they became less uncharted and the narrative against it has now changed once again.

Shadow is literally the opposite of the original reboot and people still aren't happy? It doesn't make sense lot of sense.
They want their twin pistol. But serious, using bow on human made more sense than pistol on a dinosaurs
 
Top Bottom