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Shadowrun Returns Kickstarter project by Harebrained Schemes [Ended, $1.8M funded]

New update posted, and it goes into detail about the last post. To me it explains everything and the situation has been clarified. Sounds like either miscommunication, or a big step back by the team realizing the mistakes. The interesting bit I read:


We said that post-Berlin Campaign DLC would only be available on Steam but we never said why. We regret the omission. The reason is that our license to develop Shadowrun Returns actually requires that the game and its DLC be distributed under DRM.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Interesting...

I think would be more appropriate to post here:

srrVersionsCompared.png
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
That's a little better than I expected but in the end the DRM-free version will be obsolette once more DLC comes out and mods start using it too. That makes it pointless to even provide the support they claim they will, if they will, in the end it will be a useless version and it's still a shitty situation, especially as they reveal they basically shouldn't have ever promised a DRM-free version as it was never actually viable given the licensing. It's not something they changed their mind about but something they would have never been able to do, or at least were never sure they would be able to do, yet promised to do during the campaign pitch anyway. That's shitty.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
They should have been honest about it up front but at least everyone is getting *both* versions so it's not that big of a deal.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
it's not that big of a deal to me.
Fixed. It's a big deal. Not everyone is getting both versions. Only backers, contrary to their promise of a public release. Even if everyone did, the DRM-free version will be obsolete eventually, and may as well not exist.
 
Beling Campaign being paid DLC for non-backers? Lame
No option for a DRM-Free version for non-backers? Lame
No manual saves? LAAAAAAME

My interest in this game disappeared really fast :\
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
But we're a small team with a LOT to do and save games are complicated. Thanks for understanding.

??? What the hell kind of RPG with a nearly $2 million budget made by a team of professionals doesn't have manual saving, not because of an intentional design decision (Dark Souls, Dragon Quarter, etc.), but because it's too difficult to implement? What?
 

Purkake4

Banned
But where does the loot come from then? Quest rewards?

??? What the hell kind of RPG with a nearly $2 million budget made by a team of professionals doesn't have manual saving, not because of an intentional design decision (Dark Souls, Dragon Quarter, etc.), but because it's too difficult to implement? What?
It's not exactly a procedurally generated 3D living world with thousands of items and entities to keep track of. If Sword of the Stars: The Pit can do seamless quicksaves, there's no excuse for this not to have them.
 
if I'm not completely mistaken the looting thing was clear from the start wasn't it? :eek:

but the no manual save thing really is a bummer :/ I mean it they do it right and in a way that it fits the gameplay it doesn't have to be horrible but still: dafuq is going on lately.
maybe the release is too rushed after all?
 
New update. We're getting a version of the matrix in SR.

First, some sharing -- our air conditioning hasn’t worked for about a week. It’s currently 88 degrees in the studio (and ironically, a breezy high 60’s outside). We are melting. Kohnert is wearing those goofy pants that unzip and become shorts. Although I mocked him this morning, I’m now thinking of tackling him and taking his pants. As the HBS Human Resources Representative, however, I’ve cautioned myself that this could be punishable by legal action or worse. I think I’ll grab some ice from the fridge and put it under my arms, instead.

* * *

As you may have heard, our Decker gameplay has gone through a few revisions. More than a few, actually. When we began Shadowrun Returns, we knew that trying to simulate the Matrix as it works in the tabletop game would be a huge task that we couldn’t commit to. So Jordan conceived of a system where the Decker would jack in and see an overlay on top of the physical world that displayed the local area network - what computers connected to others, what they controlled, and that sort of thing. An icon representing the decker’s avatar would then traverse the overlay and do stuff at different nodes. It gave us the ability to do some Matrix puzzle gameplay on top of the tactical combat system we were developing, but when we reviewed the design with our engineers, we realized that it would be challenging to integrate into our level editor, take too long to develop as a whole, and wouldn’t be an efficient use of our budget. So we abandoned this approach and started exploring other design concepts.

The other day, I held my breath and dove past our reasonably up-to-date design document and into the repository that is our OLD STUFF, looking to see how many stabs at decking we took - at least on paper. I found five, plus a sketch, a diagram, and the beginnings of what looks to be a card game. I know there are a few more documents on local hard drives. . .

Some of these designs were written during (what some would consider) normal office hours. But most were written late at night, over weekends, and sometimes during holidays. Each was an attempt by the author to move the ball forward to make decking a satisfying experience.

Finally, this February, we got together to review several other mini-game approaches - all of which were met with silence. (FYI, Harebrained isn’t known for its silence.) That’s when Trevor looked down, shook his head, exhaled his special exhale, and said, “Look, that’s not what Shadowrun fans want. They want decking. They want the Matrix.”

We all want the Matrix.

The issue was (and is) how we integrate the idea of a decker entering the Matrix with the rest of the game AND within the boundaries of our production reality. To do it (at least close to right) it would need its own look and feel. It would need new characters and environments and interface and sounds. It would need new gameplay features for cyberdecks and programs and intrusion countermeasures and Black IC and AI.

And, and, and. All the reasons why we said we couldn’t do it. . .

But we felt like we HAD to do it. It’s as much a part of Shadowrun as spell slinging.

We worked fast. We worked longer and harder. We brought in an old friend to help. We found issues we hadn’t anticipated. We got frustrated. We kept going.

So after all that, here’s how decking works in Shadowrun Returns. Throughout much of the game, your decking skill will allow you to hack computers in the physical world and gain information others can’t. The sort of hacker stuff you’d expect.

But several times during our story, you’ll jack in and enter a node of the Matrix that looks like this:


Among the people who created our visuals for the Shadowrun Returns Matrix is Dave McCoy, the artist who created the 3D Matrix art for the VIRTUAL REALITIES book published by FASA Corp.

To be clear, runs centered around the Matrix don’t occur often and you can’t jack in whenever you want to and travel the vastness of cyberspace. Nevertheless, Matrix runs should be quite a ride.

A Decker's Matrix avatar is automatically created based on his or her "meat-world" appearance. Every three turns a decker’s avatar takes in the cyberspace equals one turn the rest of the party gets in “meat-world”. (Things moves faster in there!) While the decker’s consciousness is running around cyberspace, his body is inert in the real world and the rest of the party needs to defend him until he returns. To exit a Matrix LAN, the decker needs to leave from the same portal he entered or eject and suffer dumpshock damage to his physical body.

As the decker’s avatar navigates a Matrix LAN node, it will encounter Intrusion Countermeasures (IC) which will attack him. To fight the IC, the decker uses computer programs and deploys ESP - Expert System Programs - which are “independently operating artificial life simulations”. ESP operate under the player’s control and each has its own abilities.

The decking skill is used to derive the decker’s “to-hit” calculation and the ESP subskill determines the power of his ESPs. The decker’s cyberdeck determines how many and what level of programs can be taken into the Matrix. There are a variety of different programs for attack, defense, buffing, and debuffing. The cyberdeck is also the decker’s first line of defense - damage the decker takes is first applied to the deck which has its own equivalent of health points called IP. But Black IC or attacks from enemy deckers can damage the decker directly. Every Matrix LAN has an alarm threshold and every action the decker takes within the LAN moves him closer to that threshold. When an alarm is tripped, it might trigger the arrival of Black IC, an enemy decker, or bad things back in the meat-world.

With all the danger inherent in cyberspace, why go there? Because the Matrix LAN nodes can control things in the meat-world like doors, security cameras, automated turrets, security clearances, and even poison gasses flooding into room. And, of course, the Matrix holds the most valuable thing in the 6th world - information.

Although runs in the Matrix are rare, when you get to play one, it’s pretty cool! We hope that the work that went into it pays off for you. Plus, the work we’ve done gives you even more building blocks for you to play with when you create your own stories.

Speaking of which. . .

We’d planned to release the editor at the end of the month but the Matrix work and other issues pushed it out a bit. We'd rather give you the right thing a little later than something a little broken right away. Early Access Backers will be getting a direct mail with more details and an updated ETA for the early release ASAP.

Also, we’re setting up two forums for the Editor on shadowrun.com. One is a Q&A that our designers will respond to and the other is a general Editor forum. They’ll both be publicly visible, although Early Access Backers will be the only ones able to post questions to the devs in the Q&A forum until the game is released. We're also working on a Wiki that will document the Editor and in which you can share knowledge, tips, and tricks.

Oh, and I’ve just been tapped on the shoulder and asked to remind you that pre-orders on harebrained-schemes.com end 4/28. So let your friends know that this is the last chance they’ll have to pre-order the Collectors Edition of Shadowrun Returns and get their hands on those USB Dog Tags. Take care.

It’s time to get back to the sauna.

Mitch

Heres the video with the update http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UZNfXWwn2I&feature=youtu.be
 

Fjordson

Member
June 26th.
Ooh damn, still a month away then. Still too far away =[

Also, I loved this little tidbit from one of the more recent updates about developing the art style and overall vibe of the game:

Environmental effects – Yes, Seattlites like us know that it doesn't actually rain THAT much here.* But rain is such an evocative (and noir-appropriate) effect that we’re going to be playing up the “it always rains in Seattle” stereotype a little bit in Shadowrun Returns. The fullscreen rain effect here instantly adds depth and liveliness to the scene – other localized effects contribute as well, such as steam rising from a vent.

http://harebrained-schemes.com/post/mikes-dev-diary-art/

Small touch, but perfect for an urban cyberpunk setting.
 

Labadal

Member

This is why I backed this project. I wasn't expecting an amazing game, but I do think we will get some cool stuff from the community (if they bother to do their own campaigns).
 

Zeliard

Member
Didn't see anyone mention this, but it's now up on Steam for preorder:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/234650/

That $18 price tag is a bit tough to swallow, given the $100 I backed it for. I was thinking it was going to retail for at least $40, so I hope it's going to be worth it.

$40+ at retail when backers got it for $15? That was never going to be the case. Not to mention, they probably want to actually sell some copies. :p
 
Didn't see anyone mention this, but it's now up on Steam for preorder:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/234650/

That $18 price tag is a bit tough to swallow, given the $100 I backed it for. I was thinking it was going to retail for at least $40, so I hope it's going to be worth it.

Why would you think this? It hasn't been the case for any Kickstarter. Backers always get it just a bit cheaper, not drastically. If you backed it for $100, it was for all the other things, such as the Doc Wagon tag, t-shirt, etc. or you just wanted to support the project.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Kickstarter isn't a store, and you aren't preordering. If you put $100 on something you aren't getting $100 back. You are saying that you want the project made bad enough to *donate* $100 and you get some minor stuff in return.

I think as each of these kickstarters get done, folks who dropped big money on each are going to be having some wake up calls.
 

Instro

Member
Kickstarter isn't a store, and you aren't preordering. If you put $100 on something you aren't getting $100 back. You are saying that you want the project made bad enough to *donate* $100 and you get some minor stuff in return.

I think as each of these kickstarters get done, folks who dropped big money on each are going to be having some wake up calls.

I wouldn't say minor, most of the 50-100 type tiers on big kickstarters are generally offering an equivalent of a Collector's Edition or more in return for the investment.
 

bigf00t

Member
$40+ at retail when backers got it for $15? That was never going to be the case. Not to mention, they probably want to actually sell some copies. :p

Maybe I was a bit harsh. I don't mean I'm disappointed that I didn't get a better "deal", I'm still really excited for the game, and I don't regret backing it at the level I did. I'm just hoping that the amount of content is closer to a "full retail price game". I know there are a lot of short $60 games, and a lot of 100+ hour $5 or $10 games, but my gut reaction was that either they aren't charging enough, or the game is light on content.

I haven't been following the updates closely since the project ended, so I don't know if they promised a certain amount of content, and I could be totally wrong. I do know that, at $20, it will be hard to argue that the game should have had more content, unless it's unbelievably short. If they charged more, it would more reasonably hold them to certain level of content, if they don't deliver.

That said, I actually think the $20 price point is a great idea, and will bring a lot of new people to the game, whereas charging more would have scared people away from trying something new.

Why would you think this? It hasn't been the case for any Kickstarter. Backers always get it just a bit cheaper, not drastically. If you backed it for $100, it was for all the other things, such as the Doc Wagon tag, t-shirt, etc. or you just wanted to support the project.

I definitely went in for the extra physical rewards, and I'm excited about those.

Kickstarter isn't a store, and you aren't preordering. If you put $100 on something you aren't getting $100 back. You are saying that you want the project made bad enough to *donate* $100 and you get some minor stuff in return.

I think as each of these kickstarters get done, folks who dropped big money on each are going to be having some wake up calls.

You're totally right about Kickstarter not being a store, and I think it's important to keep that in mind, and to keep your expectations in line with that. However, a lot of the recent success stories on Kickstarter seem to encourage you to forget that it's really just a donation, and they dress it up as some sort of pre-preorder.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the first couple of these major kickstarters start coming out. Like you said, wake up calls all around. Although I hope it never happens, it would be interesting to see one of the big ones utterly fail to deliver, just to see how much it shakes people's confidence in the system.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Maybe I was a bit harsh. I don't mean I'm disappointed that I didn't get a better "deal", I'm still really excited for the game, and I don't regret backing it at the level I did. I'm just hoping that the amount of content is closer to a "full retail price game". I know there are a lot of short $60 games, and a lot of 100+ hour $5 or $10 games, but my gut reaction was that either they aren't charging enough, or the game is light on content.

Well Harebrained Schemes is (up to now) an iOS developer, so they are accustomed to making 3 hour little games. I'm not expecting Shadowrun to be very large at all, maybe 5-6 hours.
 

adj_noun

Member
Although I hope it never happens, it would be interesting to see one of the big ones utterly fail to deliver, just to see how much it shakes people's confidence in the system.

I have one thing I try to remember when it comes to kickstarters: never make a pledge that you are not prepared to lose. Ideally, with any project should come the understanding and acceptance that you may be putting money into the next Hanfree. I'm ok with assuming that risk on a case by case basis, dependent on what I think each project creator is capable of.
 

Fjordson

Member
Maybe I was a bit harsh. I don't mean I'm disappointed that I didn't get a better "deal", I'm still really excited for the game, and I don't regret backing it at the level I did. I'm just hoping that the amount of content is closer to a "full retail price game". I know there are a lot of short $60 games, and a lot of 100+ hour $5 or $10 games, but my gut reaction was that either they aren't charging enough, or the game is light on content.
Meh, that's a fair concern. Especially with the whole level editor thing and them talking about "everyone being able to tell their own stories". I mean that's cool and all, but I'm hoping for a decent campaign from them as well.

I think it'll be pretty good, though. I saw them talking during a livestream for some site (I think it was Gamespot) and they said the story was fairly complex and interesting. Not that I'd expect them to say their campaign is bad, but with Jordan Weismann writing this and being one of the main creative guys responsible for the entire original universe I have faith it'll be worthwhile.
 
Well Harebrained Schemes is (up to now) an iOS developer, so they are accustomed to making 3 hour little games. I'm not expecting Shadowrun to be very large at all, maybe 5-6 hours.

I would say that's probably right.

However, the editor for this game is pretty robust, and it's using Steam workshop for sharing user-created missions. So, there will be no shortage of content.
 
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