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[flkraven]

I know, it has zero influence on the discussion. But it really, really, really should have plenty of influence. Like, how are we still this mad about something described as impossible in the first place..?

So it's okay to lie and be a general scumbag/asshole, as long as it doesn't impact something that would be cool or fun?

The reason people are still mad is because there is no fucking accountability. These guys were allowed to misrepresent what they are selling, make millions of dollars, and when questioned about the lies they disappear. And then people like you swoop in and either defend their integrity implicitly or give them a pass saying "it's no big deal", "preorder culture", or "this is still happening?".

So you are saying that the take away here is lie about small things, get sales, when outrage/call outs pop up stay silent and don't move, and months later it will blow over and everything is cool now?

 

[M52B28]

[Dodge roll succeeded: No damage taken]

Lololol

 

[akileese]

So maybe climb down from your soap box an explain what exactly are you talking about? You say it's not okay that they lied, but then you hop on your high horse and give a lecture about consumer responsibility and preorder culture? Why the hell is this an appropriate discussion whenever people simply want accountability for lies? No one is saying preordering is a brilliant idea, but these are completely different discussions.

How is telling someone not to preorder games getting on a high horse? This has been a stance for years since preorder culture became prominent. Marketing messaging and preorder culture aren't intertwined. The point the poster is making is that there were a lot of questions about what exactly the game was and what you do. Telling people not to preorder isn't intertwined to wanting companies to be held accountable for the games they create. In fact, I would argue that not preordering is one way to do that. Make a developer earn your trust instead of taking everything they say at face value. This may sound a bit patronizing and I apologize if it comes off that way, but the video game industry is a business. The goal when publishing a game is to make as much money as possible. There are very few exceptions to this. This is why I think people should be resistant to preordering products in general, not just games.

 

[AmuroChan]

Given how Shu was pretty savage I think it could have gone either way

I didn't find Shu's response that savage. If he wanted to be savage, he could be far more direct and damning like we (Sony) felt cheated and deceived by Hello Games and we'll never work with them again.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think the "Was Sean Murray accurate in all the things he said about No Man's Sky?" discussion is over. It is inarguable that he was not accurate.

From there, the discussion is whether or not he was intentionally misleading. Was he actively trying for these features? Did they fall apart? Does he still plan to add them? Who knows. At this point, all anyone can do is swipe at phantoms because there is no way to know what was in his head.

However.

It is also inarguable that Murray let people believe these things would be in the game before release. It is incredibly bad marketing to release a list of things that your game doesn't accomplish as you're releasing it, but it definitely wouldn't have been misleading.

His silence on the matter is also pretty damning. Maybe he doesn't want to promise things he can't deliver again. Maybe he is scared because some people on the internet are legitimately crazy and are seeing him with targets in their eyes. But silence comes with benefits and downsides and acting like the downsides should be ignored because it's prudent for them to be quiet doesn't really fly.

But actually who really cares, though. At this point, NMS is more notable for disappointment than satisfaction. People should move on and just play other games and then take to heart this lesson in how hype destroys you. For all of Hello Games' sins, consumers were the ones who were happy to believe. They want your money, sometimes the free market fucks you, be more suspicious of them next time.

 

[Kolx]

You gotta give it to him, he knows how to avoid answering a question.

 

[Justified]

The publisher of No Man's Sky is Hello Games.

They are indeed responsible for what's in their game.

Sony not being the publisher could only have, at best, suggested the price.
There are plenty of examples of sub $60 games (even retail) on PS4 to suggest they did not "force" HG to go that road.

Its baffling to me that people still think Sony published this game. All they did was get advertising rights. That's it. Same way Sony has COD advertising and Microsoft has Battlefield.

Hello Games was the developer of the game and the publisher of the PlayStation 4 digital and PC versions. But Sony was the publisher and distributor of the Blu-ray disc version of the game

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-16-sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-no-mans-sky

We all know the digitial price is base on the physical release price. And who do you think set that price?

 

[elyetis]

For all the complaining about the complaining that people love to do in NMS threads, the great thing is that all the complaining is actually having an effect. Steam is introducing new advertising standards to help avoid this kind of thing in the future, so apparently consumers are being heard. I'm glad people didn't "get over it" so quickly that some good couldn't come from it.

That.

And that's only the most tangible result. What impact it will have on some other game communication we can't really know, but it wouldn't be surprising if it did make some developper think twice about their communiction if they intend to be more than a one hit wonder.
Hopefully the only thing they will remember from that fiasco isn't that in the end it is possible to successfully sell a 60$ game with 'lies' ( even if by omission, if it was or wasn't a scam, yadayadayada) and that a part of the community response is only 'they had a dream'.

 

[Oersted]

ITT: A whole bunch of people who (still) haven't learned not to pre order.

Fuckkkkkk I had not seen that extended transformation of the flying regalia, Type F or whatever it said.

Imma put in my preorder on Monday. I gotta buy deluxe to get that sweet, sweet Amano cover art or is the standard edition reversible?

Honestly might pay deluxe price just for that.....

Did you learn yet?

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Really wish Sony would just be straight about this and admit between them and Hello Games it was the botched launch of the year. It's not like they're going to sign deals with HG again anyway so who cares about burning a bridge there. Covering their asses still is sowing seeds of distrust.

 

[AmuroChan]

He is basically saying look at him, not at us. It is not throwing under the bus, its leaving you alone in front of one.

I rewatched the interview again and didn't get that sense at all. All I saw was a lot of deflection (they're a small team..., they're still updating the game...., we never want to say no to a dev's vision and ambition..., etc) At no point did he agree that the outcry was justified or that Sean straight up lied about what the game is.

 

[ResoRai]

Conversely, I really can't imagine being as angry as you are about this. It was a miniscule part of the game's appeal for me and 'advertised, talked about, promoted' as being virtually impossible to make happen.

Nuance is a thing that exists. Doesn't mean I'm trying to jump through hoops or something here.

I know, it has zero influence on the discussion. But it really, really, really should have plenty of influence. Like, how are we still this mad about something described as impossible in the first place..?


'Many people' looked forward to something he described as impossible? I really don't want to play devil's advocate any more than I already have, but what if he repeated that point mainly to point out the vastness of the created universe? The fact that all players inhabit a unique part of that universe? I don't know, and I don't really care either. It was described as impossible in the first place. Why be so mad about that for so long?

What are you even saying? How is this not about the game being good or not? How is that irrelevant?

If you think the game is still brilliant, does that not excuse some of its shortcomings? If you think the game is terrible, would the omissions really have made it that much better?

It's not irrelevant it's just not the main point you should be focusing on.
Content that was said to be in the game multiple times isn't there, but (now read this next part too and carefully) they didn't inform the consumer of a reason why nor even at all, months later still nothing.

The content isn't there. That's it. Would it have enhanced the game? For some, probably and other probably not. Doesn't really matter. They lied and mislead people about it and that's not cool.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I think the "Was Sean Murray accurate in all the things he said about No Man's Sky?" discussion is over. It is inarguable that he was not accurate.

From there, the discussion is whether or not he was intentionally misleading. Was he actively trying for these features? Did they fall apart? Does he still plan to add them? Who knows. At this point, all anyone can do is swipe at phantoms because there is no way to know what was in his head.

However.

It is also inarguable that Murray let people believe these things would be in the game before release. It is incredibly bad marketing to release a list of things that your game doesn't accomplish as you're releasing it, but it definitely wouldn't have been misleading.

His silence on the matter is also pretty damning. Maybe he doesn't want to promise things he can't deliver again. Maybe he is scared because some people on the internet are legitimately crazy and are seeing him with targets in their eyes. But silence comes with benefits and downsides and acting like the downsides should be ignored because it's prudent for them to be quiet doesn't really fly.

But actually who really cares, though. At this point, NMS is more notable for disappointment than satisfaction. People should move on and just play other games and then take to heart this lesson in how hype destroys you. For all of Hello Games' sins, consumers were the ones who were happy to believe. They want your money, sometimes the free market fucks you, be more suspicious of them next time.

I commend you for having such a reasonable response. I'll just add that I really want to see a full-blown documentary about this some day. Maybe if I keep saying that we'll end up getting one sooner!... Maybe.

 

[GinoFelino]

So it's okay to lie and be a general scumbag/asshole, as long as it doesn't impact something that would be cool or fun?

The reason people are still mad is because there is no fucking accountability. These guys were allowed to misrepresent what they are selling, make millions of dollars, and when questioned about the lies they disappear. And then people like you swoop in and either defend their integrity implicitly or give them a pass saying "it's no big deal", "preorder culture", or "this is still happening?".

So you are saying that the take away here is lie about small things, get sales, when outrage/call outs pop up stay silent and don't move, and months later it will blow over and everything is cool now?

1) Not okay to underdeliver, but it's also a little much to be a raging, infuriated mob anytime something NMS-related pops up.

2) Never gave them a pass, just saying it's okay to move on at some point and start acting like reasonable people again.

3) 'months later' isn't exactly a short span of time for stuff to blow over. And I apologise for my 'swooping in' on your afternoon rage moment.

[/b]
It's not irrelevant it's just not the main point you should be focusing on.
Content that was said to be in the game multiple times isn't there, but (now read this next part too and carefully) they didn't inform the consumer of a reason why nor even at all, months later still nothing.

The content isn't there. That's it. Would it have enhanced the game? For some, probably and other probably not. Doesn't really matter. They lied and mislead people about it and that's not cool.

See point 2.

 

[AtomicShroom]

I think looking at the different industries in which I had the privilege of working, the gaming industry is where everybody has the courage to say “yes.”

It's not that everybody has the courage to say "yes", it's that they don't have the courage to say "no". They don't have the courage to say "no" to overtime. They don't have the courage to say "no" to unrealistic demands. They don't have the courage to say "no" to their leads. It's an industry of cowards.

 

[RedlineRonin]

So maybe climb down from your soap box an explain what exactly are you talking about? You say it's not okay that they lied, but then you hop on your high horse and give a lecture about consumer responsibility and preorder culture? Why the hell is this an appropriate discussion whenever people simply want accountability for lies? No one is saying preordering is a brilliant idea, but these are completely different discussions.

Common sense and fiscal responsibility is being on a high horse?

Hmmm......

What do you want explained? The difference between publishing games and developing them? Sean Murray says a game is going to do X, Y and Z. He tells consumers that and tells Sony's publishing arm the same thing. Sony goes "cool, sounds great" and they partner and market the game, including the features that HG and Sean said it would have.

Who do you want accountability from here? HG? Because you should. But this thread is about Shawn Layden, who was not even directly involved (Shu is president of Worldwide Studios). He gave an appropriate answer to a goddamn question and people are losing their shit about how he should be accountable.

And preorder culture, or however you wanna slice it, is absolutely related. The hyperbolic nature of these situations would be considerably less so if people weren't financially invested in the game being something other than what it was.

 

[flkraven]

How is telling someone not to preorder games getting on a high horse? This has been a stance for years since preorder culture became prominent. Marketing messaging and preorder culture aren't intertwined. The point the poster is making is that there were a lot of questions about what exactly the game was and what you do. Telling people not to preorder isn't intertwined to wanting companies to be held accountable for the games they create. In fact, I would argue that not preordering is one way to do that. Make a developer earn your trust instead of taking everything they say at face value. This may sound a bit patronizing and I apologize if it comes off that way, but the video game industry is a business. The goal when publishing a game is to make as much money as possible. There are very few exceptions to this. This is why I think people should be resistant to preordering products in general, not just games.

This happens in every NMS thread.

Person 1 says: HG lied. Why haven't they said anything? They should just come out and explain what happened.

Person 2 says: Don't preorder games.

Person 2's comment has nothing to do with Person 1's concern. Sure, it's a valid point and it's great advice, but it has nothing to do with the conversation being had. He is just saying it for the sake of saying it, attempting to invalidate concerns about the controversy surrounding this games release by blaming it on 'preorders'. Person 2 could just as easily say 'The sky is blue', and that would have been the same contribution to the discussion which is absolutely nothing.

 

[Easy_D]

Maybe he wanted to include his own presence, but wasn't able pull it off by the deadline.

Maybe he was there, but no one could see or interact with him.

 

[etrain911]

I didn't find Shu's response that savage. If he wanted to be savage, he could be far more direct and damning like we (Sony) felt cheated and deceived by Hello Games and we'll never work with them again.

I agree, Shu didn't really throw them under the bus at all, he merely said he would've handled it differently and would probably have communicated with the audience, which, they still haven't done.

 

[ResoRai]

Here, let me bold that part for you...



There are plenty of people at fault, but no one else but you is accountable for where your money goes. No one.

Ah, I see. You are talking to those who blindly bought it/blindly pre-ordered.

It seemed you were painting everyone this way. My mistake.

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

Really? Because I'm pretty sure that 99% of all games being sold at full price has scrapped features at one point in development. Or it has oversold its graphics in PR bullshots, or has oversold the importance of a new gameplay gimmick. Do they get the same treatment?

Sure, but 99.9 of them haven't had all of those things at one time and more.

 

[Alucrid]

This happens in every NMS thread.

Person 1 says: HG lied. Why haven't they said anything? They should just come out and explain what happened.

Person 2 says: Don't preorder games.

Person 2's comment has nothing to do with Person 1's concern. Sure, it's a valid point and it's great advice, but it has nothing to do with the conversation being had. He is just saying it for the sake of saying it, attempting to invalidate concerns about the controversy surrounding this games release by blaming it on 'preorders'. Person 2 could just as easily say 'The sky is blue', and that would have been the same contribution to the discussion which is absolutely nothing.

you want things that aren't going to happen. do what i did, sold the game and chalked it up as a loss and a lesson learned. don't buy their next game.

 

[metalslimer]

His silence on the issue really has not helped him in any way. Sure people might not believe what he has to say, but they already don't. It can't get any worse, and just remaining silent won't endear him if he plans to continue in the industry.

 

[OuterLimits]

So it's okay to lie and be a general scumbag/asshole, as long as it doesn't impact something that would be cool or fun?

The reason people are still mad is because there is no fucking accountability. These guys were allowed to misrepresent what they are selling, make millions of dollars, and when questioned about the lies they disappear. And then people like you swoop in and either defend their integrity implicitly or give them a pass saying "it's no big deal", "preorder culture", or "this is still happening?".

So you are saying that the take away here is lie about small things, get sales, when outrage/call outs pop up stay silent and don't move, and months later it will blow over and everything is cool now?

I agree with this.

I actually enjoy the game even with the many faults. It's the complete radio silence since release that is the biggest issue for me. Sean was contradicting himself with statements even right at release and then essentially disappeared. I think much of the backlash could have been avoided, or at least lessened significantly had they been more honest at release about the missing features but provided a roadmap for future updates.

 

[AmuroChan]

Really wish Sony would just be straight about this and admit between them and Hello Games it was the botched launch of the year. It's not like they're going to sign deals with HG again anyway so who cares about burning a bridge there. Covering their asses still is sowing seeds of distrust.

It's not so much about working with HG again. The dev community is a tight group. As a publisher you want to appear developer-friendly. If Sony has an ugly public breakup with HG, that's bad PR for Sony. Look at the Rime situation, which IMO is even worse for Sony. Sony at least made money off NMS. Tequila Works took Sony's money and did nothing with it for 3 years. By most accounts Sony got conned and had every right to throw TW under the bus, but yet they've said nothing about it publicly.

 

[ResoRai]

1) Not okay to underdeliver, but it's also a little much to be a raging, infuriated mob anytime something NMS-related pops up.

2) Never gave them a pass, just saying it's okay to move on at some point and start acting like reasonable people again.

3) 'months later' isn't exactly a short span of time for stuff to blow over. And I apologise for my 'swooping in' on your afternoon rage moment.



See point 2.

Like I told other dude, post like those paint an incredibly large brush.

 

[RedlineRonin]

Did you learn yet?

You have a very, very, very fundamental misunderstanding of the discussion here.

That game can be absolutely terrible, and I won't be in every FFXV thread goin "they lied, all the promises, all broken, someone needs to be accountable" as is the case every time NMS comes up.

Second, FFXV has been an absolute pristine example of transparent game development for the better part of two years. Comparing the two is borderline irrelevant when you look at what was (and has been) shown pre release.

Third, I pre ordered the game to be able to ensure I can get that deluxe version with the Amano cover art because I think he does great work. I'm not one of those "have to play at midnight" type dudes. If, by some great stretch of the imagination, against tens of hours of play and preview coverage, endless positive impressions from people playing new builds monthly and other signs the game will be of high quality, the game is bad, i'll simply return it before I've opened it.

So, yeah, I learned a long time ago how to protect the hard earned dollars I'm spending on games, which is the same thing I'm preaching in this thread.


Next....

 

[Auctopus]

Did you learn yet?

Damn, son.

You have a very, very, very fundamental misunderstanding of the discussion here.

clip

You need to chill a bit. It's pre-ordering, it's not a crime. Just don't go preaching about sins that you commit.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

It's not so much about working with HG again. The dev community is a tight group. As a publisher you want to appear developer-friendly. If Sony has an ugly public breakup with HG, that's bad PR for Sony. Look at the Rime situation, which IMO is even worse for Sony. Sony at least made money off NMS. Tequila Works took Sony's money and did nothing with it for 3 years. By most accounts Sony got conned and had every right to throw TW under the bus, but yet they've said nothing about it publicly.

Yeah that's a good point actually. I guess Sony really are very good at upholding relationships. I can imagine there were a few angry words tossed around the offices though so perhaps that's why we see Shu being more direct and Layden choosing his wording more carefully.

 

[RedlineRonin]

You need to chill a bit. It's pre-ordering, it's not a crime. Just don't go preaching about sins that you commit.

Fair, but I should have clarified my post to say "Pre ordering and then being mad when it isn't what you thought it was"

 

[Justified]

You have a very, very, very fundamental misunderstanding of the discussion here.

That game can be absolutely terrible, and I won't be in every FFXV thread goin "they lied, all the promises, all broken, someone needs to be accountable" as is the case every time NMS comes up.

Second, FFXV has been an absolute pristine example of transparent game development for the better part of two years. Comparing the two is borderline irrelevant when you look at what was (and has been) shown pre release.

Third, I pre ordered the game to be able to ensure I can get that deluxe version with the Amano cover art because I think he does great work. I'm not one of those "have to play at midnight" type dudes. If, by some great stretch of the imagination, against tens of hours of play and preview coverage, endless positive impressions from people playing new builds monthly and other signs the game will be of high quality, the game is bad, i'll simply return it before I've opened it.

So, yeah, I learned a long time ago how to protect the hard earned dollars I'm spending on games, which is the same thing I'm preaching in this thread.


Next....

The rub is whats your beef with pre-ordering (Or what do one needs "to learn")?

You reasoning for pre-order is no more valid than someone pre-ordering just because

Fair, but I should have clarified my post to say "Pre ordering and then being mad when it isn't what you thought it was"

Was what I was wondering. Thanks.

I personally dont think pre-ordering was the problem with NMS though

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I'm still baffled how many (millions) bought this junk when it clearly looked awful from all the pre-release gameplay videos. Then after the ridiculous pre-launch defence force they all changed their tune 5 minutes after the games release.

It shows how hiveminded and zombie-like gamers can be when all it takes to sell a shit game is a few 'bull shot' early trailers from the developers, and hype from a console manufacturer.

As for Layden's comments. It's really poor to deflect his answer like that when there's been so much controversy over this game, maybe more than any other in history. It's his job as a PR man to spin things in a positive light, but a little more down to earth honesty would have been welcome in this instance. It shows zero respect to their consumers intellect.

 

[Oersted]

snip

Thank you. So is it about not preordering in general,with FFXV being the exception because they offer such a nice carrot with the art and seem to be more transparent? Or about not preordering No Man's Sky? Or what?


Edit:

Fair, but I should have clarified my post to say "Pre ordering and then being mad when it isn't what you thought it was"

Haha, nice

 

[The Jackdog]

This happens in every NMS thread.

Person 1 says: HG lied. Why haven't they said anything? They should just come out and explain what happened.

Person 2 says: Don't preorder games.

Person 2's comment has nothing to do with Person 1's concern. Sure, it's a valid point and it's great advice, but it has nothing to do with the conversation being had. He is just saying it for the sake of saying it, attempting to invalidate concerns about the controversy surrounding this games release by blaming it on 'preorders'. Person 2 could just as easily say 'The sky is blue', and that would have been the same contribution to the discussion which is absolutely nothing.

its the same shit every time. people bending over backwards to defend sony and HG.

All people want is some fucking accountabilty.

And youre right you get those people. HG LIED! WELL DONT PREORDER GAMES!

Might as well say "Hello games lied so you have to be careful preparing seafood to not get sick"

One isnt a solution to the other.

 

[RedlineRonin]

The rub is whats your beef with pre-ordering (Or what do one needs "to learn")?

You reasoning for pre-order is no more valid than someone pre-ordering just because



Was what I was wondering. Thanks.

I personally dont think pre-ordering was the problem with NMS though

Thank you. So is it about not preordering in general,with FFXV being the exception because they offer such a nice carrot with the art and seem to be more transparent? Or about not preordering No Man's Sky? Or what?

Yup, Yup, I edited my post for clarity because I should have included "people who want blood when they are ultimately mislead about a product."

Point is at the end of the day, it is fundamentally on you as a consumer to protect and educate yourself, no one else has the onus to do that for you. And when you a company misleads you with marketing etc, you can demand accountability etc and you're not wrong, you just make a better decision next time.

 

[Auctopus]

Fair, but I should have clarified my post to say "Pre ordering and then being mad when it isn't what you thought it was"

I agree with you there. I'd also advise people to just avoid hype culture in general. Case and point, the thread on the front page right now called something like "I wasn't hyped about FFXV but now there's a week to go AND IM FUCKFIN HYPPED".

Any thread starting like that is going to cause some casualties down the road.

 

[mclem]

Nobody in development wants to say that they can’t do a thing, right? No one wants to tell someone “No I can’t do that for you.” People are really trying. I think looking at the different industries in which I had the privilege of working, the gaming industry is where everybody has the courage to say “yes.”

It's not quite what he's describing, as such, but this has too many echoes of my own experiences in development, where our manager would largely say 'yes' to various publisher demands because of fear we'd lose funding if we didn't. My perception of what went on was approximately:

* Project is proposed to publisher (either a project originating from the developer or a commission to make a port of a major project originating elsewhere - for instance, I worked on the PSP port of From Russia With Love)
* Developer Management negotiates with publisher. Developer *needs* funding to keep the company afloat; Publisher has the power in this negotiation.
* Developer Management requests a budget lower than is ideal in order to convince the Publisher to sign
* Employees of Developer work crunch in order to make up the deficit.

It's a bit of a catch-22. Developer signs publisher deals, or developer cannot meet payroll. Publishers are out to get the cheapest deal they realistically can, so developer makes sacrifices to sweeten the pot. There's no shortage of potential employees - the lines of people looking to join the industry are massive. So you just... burn through them.

I'm not sure that quite counts as courage.

 

[RedlineRonin]

I agree with you there. I'd also advise people to just avoid hype culture in general. Case and point, the thread on the front page right now called something like "I wasn't hyped about FFXV but now there's a week to go AND IM FUCKFIN HYPPED".

Any thread starting like that is going to cause some casualties down the road.

Agreed. We all have games that pull at our heartstrings, but where the rubber meets the road is where you give up your hard earned dollar for games. People have to be able to insulate themselves from that stuff; separate it to a degree, from what they read in "hype threads".

I'm with you though, I think those threads are detrimental, beyond even the money stuff, because it becomes very difficult for games to live up to wild expectations. That's pretty much NMS writ large.

 

[akileese]

This happens in every NMS thread.

Person 1 says: HG lied. Why haven't they said anything? They should just come out and explain what happened.

Person 2 says: Don't preorder games.

Person 2's comment has nothing to do with Person 1's concern. Sure, it's a valid point and it's great advice, but it has nothing to do with the conversation being had. He is just saying it for the sake of saying it, attempting to invalidate concerns about the controversy surrounding this games release by blaming it on 'preorders'. Person 2 could just as easily say 'The sky is blue', and that would have been the same contribution to the discussion which is absolutely nothing.

I respectfully disagree. Preordering is essentially guaranteeing money to a product you've never seen or used in person. I don't preorder hardware unless I get the chance to use it first. I never get people who preorder cars (this is a thing you can do, it happened with the Focus RS) that they literally depreciates before it's even off the boat it arrives on. To guarantee money to a product that you yourself have never played (or never seen extensive footage of) really isn't good practice and I say this as someone who preordered NMS. I'm not going to lie and say I'll stop preordering games, but I'm pretty much done preordering games from publishers and developers who I do not feel have earned my trust. Pokemon and Persona 5? Preordered. Last Guardian? I've heard enough scary things about it to take a wait and see approach.

 

[ResoRai]

its the same shit every time. people bending over backwards to defend sony and HG.

All people want is some fucking accountabilty.

And youre right you get those people. HG LIED! WELL DONT PREORDER GAMES!

Might as well say "Hello games lied so you have to be careful preparing seafood to not get sick"

One isnt a solution to the other.

Whenever this happens I think people just post speaking to a certain subset of people without specifically addressing who they are talking to, and then people start discussing, which turns in to arguing.
Just need clarity. Like Red for example. He was talking to the group who blindly pre-order, which he clarified, which I also appreciate. Thanks Red.

Now, if people think this is the main point of of the issue than peeps can discuss that.

I personally agree with you there. Though, I do believe pre-ordering is iffy sometimes, and those that do it will definitely get burned sometimes, I also believe a lie is a lie and that this is the main focus of the issue here with NMS.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

I wish someone would advocate for me like that when I screw up

lol! true

 

[kmax]

A measured response. As a representative of SCE, he's not going to throw developers under the bus. He wants people to buy games on his platform, not alienate consumers even more.

 

[Fisty]

Worst part about the whole thing is if Sean finally does come out of hiding to answer questions, he's going to be asked when he plans of adding in the missing content. He can dodge that, and infuriate the Internet to a ridiculous degree. Or, he could say what they are working on and give a timetable, which his small team might not keep on track 100%, which would infuriate the Internet to a ridiculous degree.

So... why even bother? Just go silent, work on your game at your own pace, pay your employees, and try to live your life. The way the community has reacted to an underwhelming $60 consumer entertainment product is pretty disgraceful, and I can absolutely understand the team's decision to just not deal with them.

 

[Z3M0G]

Did anyone ask about lowering the price below $60 and how that would impact digital pre-orders?

Releasing game at $30 would have went a long way to avoid backlash and temper expectations.

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

Fair, but I should have clarified my post to say "Pre ordering and then being mad when it isn't what you were told it was going to be"

Fixed that for you.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I was under the impressions the PS4 version was published by Sony. I see it is misbranded in my local PlayStation Store then. It says SCEE there as publisher. Apparently the deal was different. Seems they only did the marketing then. That changes the story a bit for me.

Officially they're the distributor of the PS4 version. But they clearly still have a role in the muckup. It does muddy the water though as to what that role was, and I've still questioned whether the issue was willful promotion of HG's absurd overpromises or complete incompetence.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-16-sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-no-mans-sky

We all know the digitial price is base on the physical release price. And who do you think set that price?

I don't know. But you seem to know. Who set it?

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

This seemed like an non-answer

 

[RedlineRonin]

Fixed that for you.

You can say it however you want, but this gets into a much more philosophical argument about whether you take at face value the things that are told to you by people who's job it is to sell you things. There is a very long and storied history of video games not being what they were "told to be"

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You can say it however you want, but this gets into a much more philosophical argument about whether you take at face value the things that are told to you by people who's job it is to sell you things. There is a very long and storied history of video games not being what they were "told to be"

I think people are pretty used to E3 vertical slices being bogus in terms of "gameplay" and especially in terms of bumped up visuals.

I still don't think this is the usual "not what they were told to be."

 

[OmegaFax]

No one at Sony wants to take any of the blame or responsibility for No Man's Sky. Maybe we'll get another side of the story in a couple of years when an employee working at either Sony or Hello Games.

Regardless, it's apparent that with this push to move embargos to release date, or staggering embargos, Sony ought to be more flexible with pre-order refunds or time limited refunds after the game is released.

Banning customers from using Sony's online customer service chat for requesting a refund another tactless, anti-consumer business practice.

It can be debated all day to the extend No Man's Sky was misrepresented by pre-release material and press junkets. Finger pointing can go in all directions. Sony isn't blameless in this situation because it bought to light a lot of problems with how they handle business with their customers that existed before No Man's Sky released and well after it.