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Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot ‘em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread

SOME-MIST

SOME-MIST

Member
BOTEC said:
Wait what? Sine Mora is a shmup? I had no idea. I thought it was a on-rails shooter or something. In light of this I remain as interested as I was before. Not very. I don't know if I trust Grasshopper after Shadows Of the Damned.
Click to expand...
What games by grasshopper manufacture/suda titles do you like? The No More Heroes franchise is even goofier than SotD, and I thought both NMH and shadows of the damned were awesome. I'm not sure it's so comparable, but I enjoyed SotD much more than I did resident evil 5. It seems that whenever Mikami and Suda collaborate - like they did in killer7 - the end result is usually interesting and fun. then again...I don't consider myself to have very limited taste in games at all and it doesn't surprise me that some people are turned off by these games. They're definitely out there.

I will definitely be picking up sine mora and lollipop chainsaw.
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Isn't Sine Mora technically a euroshmup? :p

The programming and actual game design are all being done by a Hungarian studio... Grasshopper is just doing the general art direction and audio work. Suda himself isn't even involved with the game in any real capacity.
 
B

BOTEC

Member
SOME-MIST said:
What games by grasshopper manufacture/suda titles do you like? The No More Heroes franchise is even goofier than SotD, and I thought both NMH and shadows of the damned were awesome. I'm not sure it's so comparable, but I enjoyed SotD much more than I did resident evil 5. It seems that whenever Mikami and Suda collaborate - like they did in killer7 - the end result is usually interesting and fun. then again...I don't consider myself to have very limited taste in games at all and it doesn't surprise me that some people are turned off by these games. They're definitely out there.

I will definitely be picking up sine mora and lollipop chainsaw.
Click to expand...

I'm a huge Suda51 fan. I loved Killer 7 and No More Heroes. However Grasshopper's output is becoming more watered down and accessible as of late. No More Heroes 2 was a let down and Shadows of the Damned was a bore. I'm hoping Lollipop Chainsaw is a return to form. I have no idea what to think about Sine Mora. I wasn't interested in it at all, but I just saw a trailer the other day that displayed a M rating. A M rated shooter, WTF? I might pick it up in the end just out of sheer curiosity. In that regard, Grasshopper are still kings.
 
D

Dave Long

Banned
Well, after 14 years, I've finally purchased Einhander. One of those games I wanted so badly back in the PSX era and just never bought for a variety of reasons. Found it locally for $42 after taxes but managed to win one on eBay for $35 so saved a few bucks.

Really looking forward to playing it. A buddy had it and I think I got like ten minutes with it back in '98. Can't wait to really dig in.

Was playing G-Darius this weekend. Good stuff. Love those fishy bosses!
 
S

StarCreator

Member
luka said:
Isn't Sine Mora technically a euroshmup? :p

The programming and actual game design are all being done by a Hungarian studio... Grasshopper is just doing the general art direction and audio work. Suda himself isn't even involved with the game in any real capacity.
Click to expand...

The term "euroshmup" generally refers to a set of design decisions early European developers commonly made when designing shooting games (such as implementation of shields, inertia, etc), and not necessarily the actual nationality of the developers themselves. It's kind of a misnomer since a lot of North American devs were responsible for continuing the trend in the 90s as well.
 
SOME-MIST

SOME-MIST

Member
BOTEC said:
I'm a huge Suda51 fan. I loved Killer 7 and No More Heroes. However Grasshopper's output is becoming more watered down and accessible as of late. No More Heroes 2 was a let down and Shadows of the Damned was a bore. I'm hoping Lollipop Chainsaw is a return to form. I have no idea what to think about Sine Mora. I wasn't interested in it at all, but I just saw a trailer the other day that displayed a M rating. A M rated shooter, WTF? I might pick it up in the end just out of sheer curiosity. In that regard, Grasshopper are still kings.
Click to expand...
I got ya. SotD was a little too conventional by suda's usual standards. In the end it was just a TPS with some corny humor thrown in, but I still loved it. Sine Mora could turn out to be a complete dud, but I'm starving for anything new in the genre.
 
B

BOTEC

Member
SOME-MIST said:
I got ya. SotD was a little too conventional by suda's usual standards. In the end it was just a TPS with some corny humor thrown in, but I still loved it. Sine Mora could turn out to be a complete dud, but I'm starving for anything new in the genre.
Click to expand...

We're making fun of the self-serious trailer in this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464677

The more I learn about this game the less sense it makes. It does remind me a bit of Einheinder, so that's something.
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
StarCreator said:
The term "euroshmup" generally refers to a set of design decisions early European developers commonly made when designing shooting games (such as implementation of shields, inertia, etc), and not necessarily the actual nationality of the developers themselves. It's kind of a misnomer since a lot of North American devs were responsible for continuing the trend in the 90s as well.
Click to expand...
My main point was that everyone is drastically overstating Suda's involvement with the project. DR is doing all of the modelling, programming, and design work themselves and a lot of what I've seen screams euroshmup, like the ability to keep eating bullets until you run out of time, and the focus on story and cutscenes with casual-friendly "pretty, not scary" bullet patterns. It might be great, but if anyone is expecting typical Suda51 craziness they might be disappointed.
 
B

BOTEC

Member
luka said:
My main point was that everyone is drastically overstating Suda's involvement with the project. DR is doing all of the modelling, programming, and design work themselves and a lot of what I've seen screams euroshmup, like the ability to keep eating bullets until you run out of time, and the focus on story and cutscenes with casual-friendly "pretty, not scary" bullet patterns. It might be great, but if anyone is expecting typical Suda51 craziness they might be disappointed.
Click to expand...

While this is true, it's still produced by Grasshopper, so I expect that Suda gave his stamp of approval to the game. Even something like Frog Minutes was wacky enough to count as a Grasshopper game.
 
S

StarCreator

Member
luka said:
My main point was that everyone is drastically overstating Suda's involvement with the project. DR is doing all of the modelling, programming, and design work themselves and a lot of what I've seen screams euroshmup, like the ability to keep eating bullets until you run out of time, and the focus on story and cutscenes with casual-friendly "pretty, not scary" bullet patterns. It might be great, but if anyone is expecting typical Suda51 craziness they might be disappointed.
Click to expand...

One of the dev team has been posting rather prolifically on the Sine Mora thread on shmups forum, and the game mechanics he laid out there sound anything but euroshmup-like - at least, in Arcade mode. Battle Garegga is even cited as one of the game's primary influences earlier in the thread.

Specificially on why the player didn't die when getting hit - the entire game seems to be based on time extensions, and getting hit incurs a time penalty. So instead of a typical 3-life per credit setup, the time remaining is your life bar, and it's constantly draining even if you don't get hit.
 
B

bede-x

Member
I'm looking for a stage in a Shmup I played when I was younger. It was a horizontally scrolling game where at the beginning of the stage in question, enemies attacked you in waves and before they appeared on screen, you could see smaller versions of them in the background flying across the screen from left to right. I know it's not much to go on and the description could possibly fit a lot of games in the genre, but anyone know which game/level that was? I'm kinda thinking it was one of the Thunder Force games(16 bit era) or one similar to them, but Youtube has revealed nothing so far..
 
B

BOTEC

Member
bede-x said:
I'm looking for a stage in a Shmup I played when I was younger. It was a horizontally scrolling game where at the beginning of the stage in question, enemies attacked you in waves and before they appeared on screen, you could see smaller versions of them in the background flying across the screen from left to right. I know it's not much to go on and the description could possibly fit a lot of games in the genre, but anyone know which game/level that was? I'm kinda thinking it was one of the Thunder Force games(16 bit era) or one similar to them, but Youtube has revealed nothing so far..
Click to expand...

Pulling a random game name out of my ass: Einhander?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ML4IFnCHpU (Caution, horrible audio quality. Turn down your speakers.)

Need some more details. 2D, 3D sci-fi, military, planes, spaceships, etc?
 
B

bede-x

Member
It isn't Einhander. It was definitely 2D only and probably a little older. But thanks for the suggestion.

BOTEC said:
Need some more details. 2D, 3D sci-fi, military, planes, spaceships, etc?
Click to expand...

It was a spaceship shooter, kinda like the Thunder Force 3/4 and the stage I'm thinking of had the enemies flying in straight lines in the background at the beginning. They kept flying at high speed, straight lines left to right, across the background and then proceeded to engage the player shortly thereafter.

The section with the waves of attacking ships didn't last very long as far as I remember, but there were quite a lot of fast attackers, that died almost immediately.
 
B

BOTEC

Member
bede-x said:
It isn't Einhander. It was definitely 2D only and probably a little older. But thanks for the suggestion.



It was a spaceship shooter, kinda like the Thunder Force 3/4 and the stage I'm thinking of had the enemies flying in straight lines in the background at the beginning. They kept flying at high speed, straight lines left to right, across the background and then proceeded to engage the player shortly thereafter.

The section with the waves of attacking ships didn't last very long as far as I remember, but there were quite a lot of fast attackers, that died almost immediately.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that should help, but I can't be the one to get it. For some reason I can't recall any details of 2D horizontal scrolling games from that time. I'm more of a vert guy.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
bede-x said:
It isn't Einhander. It was definitely 2D only and probably a little older. But thanks for the suggestion.



It was a spaceship shooter, kinda like the Thunder Force 3/4 and the stage I'm thinking of had the enemies flying in straight lines in the background at the beginning. They kept flying at high speed, straight lines left to right, across the background and then proceeded to engage the player shortly thereafter.

The section with the waves of attacking ships didn't last very long as far as I remember, but there were quite a lot of fast attackers, that died almost immediately.
Click to expand...

Area88?
P47?
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
bede-x said:
It isn't Einhander. It was definitely 2D only and probably a little older. But thanks for the suggestion.



It was a spaceship shooter, kinda like the Thunder Force 3/4 and the stage I'm thinking of had the enemies flying in straight lines in the background at the beginning. They kept flying at high speed, straight lines left to right, across the background and then proceeded to engage the player shortly thereafter.

The section with the waves of attacking ships didn't last very long as far as I remember, but there were quite a lot of fast attackers, that died almost immediately.
Click to expand...

Gleylancer?
 
B

bede-x

Member
Dash Kappei said:
Area88?
P47?
Click to expand...

_dementia said:
Gleylancer?
Click to expand...

Not any of them unfourtunately, but it wasn't too far removed from Gleylancer. Actually thought I had found it for a moment, but it doesn't have a section where a lot of enemies fly in a straight line in the background and exits the screen, only to appear a short while later in the foreground where the player can shoot at them.

But thanks for the suggestions.
 
B

bede-x

Member
Genesis Knight said:
Indeed, Daser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfJMvbHKlqU

Look at ~18secs.
Click to expand...

There's a chance that it's that or something similar to that, but it's getting very late in Denmark where I live and I have to get up early, so it's bedtime for me now. I will definitely check every pixel of every level of TF4 tomorrow. It was actually one of the first games I checked, but I might not have been thorough enough, since I hadn't really narrowed it down to one specific game and was looking everywhere at the same time.

In my search for the game I came across this Thunder Force IV Rebirth, which reminds of the title I'm thinking of(though this is fancier in terms of number of enemies onscreen):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9zWIrnsOA

So there's a good chance it's TFIV or one of the other Thunder Forces I should take a closer look at.

Thanks for the help guys. It's so annoying when your memory fails and leaves you with a fragment of something you almost remember.

StarCreator said:
You may want to try making a thread over at shmups forum. Threads asking for game identifications pop up all the time and most of them are figured out within a day or two.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good idea. Will check some games tomorrow and this weekend and if I haven't found it then, I'll consult the System11 board.
 
gunstarhero

gunstarhero

Member
StarCreator said:
One of the dev team has been posting rather prolifically on the Sine Mora thread on shmups forum, and the game mechanics he laid out there sound anything but euroshmup-like - at least, in Arcade mode. Battle Garegga is even cited as one of the game's primary influences earlier in the thread.
Click to expand...

That just made my interest in this game shoot up to 1 million.
 
gunstarhero

gunstarhero

Member
adversesolutions said:
Just came across some amazing videos of Revolver360 for XBLIG.

Waves 100-155 (good quality video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74DG015QYnw

Wave 1-158 (played by RAM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88I9AWLiryw

This reminded me of how absolutely manic and amazing this game is. Should've been a mainline XBLA game. I don't usually recommend indie/doujin games, but man this is an exception. SO CRAZY.
Click to expand...

That looks bonkers - I never got around to playing this. Looks like i'm going to have to pick this up. (seems like every time I visit this thread, I wind up buying a new game).
 
B

BOTEC

Member
The Soldier games are good. I personally like Soldier Blade, and Super Star Soldier was relevant enough to get a remake so there's something there. Also Daisenpu is allegedly better on Hu Card than on CD. Go figure.
 
T

Tain

Member
Yeah, Mars Matrix is great. Takumi's last STG, 2004's Giga Wing Generations, only got a shitty port to the PS2 in 2005 (ugly, no TATE support, 30fps), so most Western enthusiasts don't care about the game. I actually wonder if it will get more attention now that the original Type X version has been cracked to run on a home PC.
 
T

To Far Away Times

Member
Mars Matrix is the game with four actions on one button right?

The mechanics aren't really my thing, but it's a well made game, no doubt about it.

GigaWing on the other hand, I could play that game all day.
 
Baron

Baron

Member
I'm looking to sell or trade a new unopened copy of the first Deathsmiles for Japan 360. Any advice on the best place to do that? Maybe the shmups trading forum...
 
S

StarCreator

Member
Baron said:
I'm looking to sell or trade a new unopened copy of the first Deathsmiles for Japan 360. Any advice on the best place to do that? Maybe the shmups trading forum...
Click to expand...

Good place for it. You also want to specify if you somehow have the first press DLC code. The DLC was never made available for general purchase.
 
Baron

Baron

Member
StarCreator said:
Good place for it. You also want to specify if you somehow have the first press DLC code. The DLC was never made available for general purchase.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Did all the first print copies have this code? It's the regular, not the limited edition. And I don't believe there is any sticker or something on the front specifying it had the DLC inside.

And I'll say it right now: I want at least what I paid for it. That may be an outrageous amount, so I may just have to hold on to it. Although I will say this - I (may) be willing to trade it for a copy of Eschatos or Bullet Soul!
 
S

StarCreator

Member
Baron said:
Hmm. Did all the first print copies have this code? It's the regular, not the limited edition. And I don't believe there is any sticker or something on the front specifying it had the DLC inside.

And I'll say it right now: I want at least what I paid for it. That may be an outrageous amount, so I may just have to hold on to it. Although I will say this - I (may) be willing to trade it for a copy of Eschatos or Bullet Soul!
Click to expand...

I was pretty sure all first print copies had the code, but I'm not sure if there was supposed to be a sticker denoting it to be there.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Semi lttp, but everyone should buy Strania. Its awesome and a great find in a world where somewhat normal vertical shoot em ups are hard to find. Soundtrack is extremely cool as well.
 
J

jetsetfluken

Member
Has anyone here at the very least 1CC'd an arcade run in Mamoru-kun Is Cursed?

I think there's some kind of secret with this game that'll make it a lot more manageable. I understand the curse system where you can either absorb it and shoot a lot more bullets for a limited time, or curse the enemies to stop their bullets at the expense of other things, but...

There's also the DLC that the PS3 got, two challenge mode runs that have a handful of stages from the game just made SUPER hard...or so I think.


adversesolutions said:
Just came across some amazing videos of Revolver360 for XBLIG.

Waves 100-155 (good quality video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74DG015QYnw

Wave 1-158 (played by RAM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88I9AWLiryw

This reminded me of how absolutely manic and amazing this game is. Should've been a mainline XBLA game. I don't usually recommend indie/doujin games, but man this is an exception. SO CRAZY.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Revolver360 is one of the best digital-download games of the generation.
Better music, art/visuals and gameplay than most XBLA/PSN games. The "revolving" mechanic is very unique. The backdrops are so simple yet so vibrant and sophisticated and varied, effects and models are nice, and the music is very uplifting and well done.

So sad that it didn't get full XBLA treatment when so much garbage does.
If SCEJ was smart they'd pick up the dev and get a PSN port going, but of course they won't.
It really deserves more exposure. It's doing some new things like we saw Ikaruga doing, and that got tons of attention (especially once it was localized for Gamecube).
 
Y

Yes Boss!

Member
BOTEC said:
The Soldier games are good. I personally like Soldier Blade, and Super Star Soldier was relevant enough to get a remake so there's something there. Also Daisenpu is allegedly better on Hu Card than on CD. Go figure.
Click to expand...

Cool. Bought Daisenpu. Never heard of the game.

Familiar with the Soldier games.

Still looking for some good recommendations.
 
gunstarhero

gunstarhero

Member
Just snagged myself a Truxton JAMMA board for relatively cheap! Good god this game is awesome...

I remember playing the genny version and thinking it was "ok"...and I was a little hesitant to pick up the pcb because of that - but I'm so glad I did.

For the most part, the game plays smoother and looks a lot more detailed than I remember it on the Genesis. There is zero slowdown and flickering - everything just looks more solid. The Genesis version was a great port - but (obviously) the arcade version does just about everything better. Especially the bomb animation! I remember the Genesis version simply flashing the giant skull image on the screen... In the arcade version, it fully animates the explosion, and you only get a hint of it turning into a skull. It's MUCH more bad-ass this way :)

The music is just as great as I remember it being - though the sounds in the arcade version sound much deeper.

Anyway - I don't see a lot of Toaplan love here... Probably because they no longer exist :(. But shooter fans should check out their catalog. They are not the bullet-hell shooters we see today, and the Toaplan games have a specific feel to them. Check out Truxton or Dogyuun (my personal fav) and you'll see what I mean. If any of you guys buy boards - please check this game out!
 
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