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Shooting at Army Base Ft.Hood 7 Dead

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Right-wing media figures have used the shooting at Fort Hood as an excuse to attack Islam and American Muslims in particular, with Debbie Schlussel, for example, urging readers to think of the alleged shooter "whenever you hear about how Muslims serve their country in the U.S. military." Additionally, commentators have blamed the shooting on "political correctness," with Fox News host Brian Kilmeade suggesting the implementation of "special debriefings" for Muslim American soldiers to prevent future attacks.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200911060032

These assholes are already talkin shit! They're already going after all Muslims. This is bullshit

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I'm a Christian. And the soldier that died here was Muslim. He gave his life to protect me and my family. All of us. ALL of his fellow Americans!!

FUCK THESE RIGHT-WING ASSHOLES AND THEY'RE RACIST/XENOPHOBIC BULLSHIT!

FUCK THIS CUNT DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL!!
 
gumshoe said:
holy crap you can google nidalhasan on google and see the post that CNN keeps talking about (comparing suicide bombers to a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to protect others). O.o

I can actually see that argument, of course I don't agree with it, but the theory behind a suicide bomber is that they are sacrificing their life to help future ones. Evil acts with not-clearly evil intentions.
 
I don't really think that every lunatic utterance of 'political commentators' needs to be dragged up the media flagpole. It bugs me that HuffingtonPost runs like an engine on this sort of mockery/outrage: it goes absolutely nowhere and produces nothing more useful than hits on a website.
 
Choke on the Magic said:
Piss off with your "white folks" comment. I don't agree with Fox News, but the issue they're raising is about religion. You're trying to make it a race thing.

Damn them. Last year it was "did Obama do a terrorist fist bump" and now they ask should all Muslims go through some extra testing?

My point is would they be saying these things if they were white Christians.
 
NPR doing a nice job of reporting and its clear this guy was an Islamic fanatic.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816

ZWERDLING: Earlier today, I spoke to a psychiatrist who worked very closely with Hasan and knows him very well. And he said, you know, from the beginning -and Hasan was there for four years - the medical staff was very worried about this guy. He said the first thing is he's cold, unfriendly. At least that's who he came off. He did not do a good job as a psychiatrist in training, was repeatedly warned, you better shape up, or, you know, you're going to be in trouble. Did badly in his classes, seemed disinterested.

But second of all - and this is, perhaps, you know, more relevant. The psychiatrist says that he was very proud and upfront about being Muslim. And psychiatrist hastened to say, and nobody minded that. But he seemed almost belligerent about being Muslim, and he gave a lecture one day that really freaked a lot of doctors out.

They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he - Hasan apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is burned down your throat.


And I said to the psychiatrist, but this cold be a very interesting informational session, right? Where he's educating everybody about the Koran. He said but what disturbed everybody was that Hasan seemed to believe these things. And actually, a Muslim in the audience, a psychiatrist, raised his hand and said, excuse me. But I'm a Muslim and I do not believe these things in the Koran, and then I don't believe what you say the Koran says. And then Hasan didn't say, well, I'm just giving you one point of view. He basically just stared the guy down.

INSKEEP: So we have a picture of a man, then, who, at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, was disliked by his colleagues. Or maybe disliked is not the word. Disturbed some of his colleagues is perhaps a better way to put it.

ZWERDLING: No, and disliked is also a relevant word.
 
Ripclawe said:
NPR doing a nice job of reporting and its clear this guy was an Islamic fanatic.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816

He made a presentation about his religion when it was supposed to be about medical related issues?? It seems the man didn't really have anyone to discuss his views with and he took every opportunity he got to share his views and no one bothered to check with him about his feelings and his views, not even other Muslims.
 
Be interested if his personnel file is ever released, really weird that the sort of things being bandied about were allowed for an officer.
 
Well its true he is a muslim first American second. Religion always comes before nation. That's how it should be.
 
Is it a coincidence that this tragedy happened on the 5th of November??

Remember, remember the fifth of November,
The gunpowder treason and plot,
I know of no reason
Why the gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot

I wouldn't rule it out that the killer drew motivation from the book.

O.o
 
Interesting article about the officer who shot Hasan.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1107/p02s03-usmi.html

One of the first responders, she exited her car and entered the building as shots rang out. She rounded a corner, identified the shooter, and fired four times. He returned fire and hit her at least twice in the legs and once in the arm. She underwent surgery Friday but is said to be in good condition. It's unclear how many other responders were present and firing, but Munley's shots are believed to be the ones that stopped the alleged gunman, Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.

"She walked up and engaged him," said Fort Hood commander Lt. Gen. Bob Cone, according to an Associated Press report. Her training taught her that "if you act aggressively to take out a shooter, you will have less fatalities," he said.
 
Tamanon said:
Ask a religious person "Which is more important to you, your religion or your country?" and you'll get almost unanimous agreement on religion.

A lot of people would, but it's also why their decision-making capabilities should never be trusted. These people are quantifiably Fascists and are antithetical to a well functioning society.

I question that this is 'how it should be'.
 
Atrus said:
A lot of people would, but it's also why their decision-making capabilities should never be trusted. These people are quantifiably Fascists and are antithetical to a well functioning society.

I question that this is 'how it should be'.

I.....I don't think you understand what a fascist is.....this is taking a really weird turn.
 
Atrus said:
A lot of people would, but it's also why their decision-making capabilities should never be trusted. These people are quantifiably Fascists and are antithetical to a well functioning society.

I question that this is 'how it should be'.
Whoever says country shouldn't be religious, because they aren't following it. The religious texts are unanimous, religion comes before all, including family, much less country.
 
mckmas8808 said:
WOW! Talk about being a bigot. Why is it when white folks do crazy things people like Fox News host don't want to test every white person?
I dont think it has anything to do with skin color. More along the lines of "fucked up religion".
 
Tamanon said:
I.....I don't think you understand what a fascist is.....this is taking a really weird turn.

I know what a facist is in the political sense, just as I know someone will attempt to misread it by focussing only on it's economic policies whilst ignoring facist socialist policies, which includes authoritarianism and assimilation, are also encompassed in the term.

Take Christian Reconstructionism, full of these God over all else mouthbreathers, and Fascist to a fault.
 
Atrus said:
I know what a facist is in the political sense, just as I know someone will attempt to misread it by focussing only on it's economic policies whilst ignoring facist socialist policies, which includes authoritarianism and assimilation, are also encompassed in the term.

Take Christian Reconstructionism, full of these God over all else mouthbreathers, and Fascist to a fault.

So how does authoritarianism and assimilation have anything to do with a priority of God, Family, country? It seems that you're actually thinking of, I guess, anti-fascism.
 
aswedc said:
Whoever says country shouldn't be religious, because they aren't following it. The religious texts are unanimous, religion comes before all, including family, much less country.

...and that is why you see Fathers and Mothers allowing the hearts to be torn out of their own children, why a man suicides himself against people he's never ever met half a world away, and why they will scour all of existence for the sake of some nonsense that bears no consequence to reality, other than to comfort him against the inevitable cessation of existence.

People should be free to choose whatever ideologies they wish, but this is always bound by the society that encapsulates that freedom to choose whatever ideology they wish. Countries on the other hand which place themselves under the yoke of religion, inevitably create existential threats to those that live in their societies.
 
If religion can bridge connections between groups and individuals across national lines, helping to diminish nationalism in the process, I don't see anything wrong with that really.
 
Tamanon said:
So how does authoritarianism and assimilation have anything to do with a priority of God, Family, country? It seems that you're actually thinking of, I guess, anti-fascism.

God is the ultimate authoritarian ruler. An entire branch of the Abrahamic religions is based on the absolute 'surrender' to a God (not that the rest aren't trying) and the appointment of God ahead of all things, including Life, Humanity, and Family, intrinsiclly means that the notion of this God should weed into everything that is distinct from it.

This is not a leftist concept. It is bereft of any sort of Universalism except as interpreted (or rather inserted) by the religious leftists, but the leftists aren't the ones in particular causing the problems now are they?
 
Atrus said:
...and that is why you see Fathers and Mothers allowing the hearts to be torn out of their own children, why a man suicides himself against people he's never ever met half a world away, and why they will scour all of existence for the sake of some nonsense that bears no consequence to reality, other than to comfort him against the inevitable cessation of existence.

To be fair, nationalism causes the same things and is just as irrational.

Atrus said:
People should be free to choose whatever ideologies they wish, but this is always bound by the society that encapsulates that freedom to choose whatever ideology they wish. Countries on the other hand which place themselves under the yoke of religion, inevitably create existential threats to those that live in their societies.

As do countries who insist on patriotism as a virtue.
 
Goya said:
If religion can bridge connections between groups and individuals across national lines, helping to diminish nationalism in the process, I don't see anything wrong with that really.

At the expense of creating even deeper, more existential divisions across humanity. Besides... religion doesn't diminish nationalism. Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany were full of conservative relgious people. Even among America's religious right, can you say that this diminishing was true or has religion simply given these sorts of people a divine right to rule?
 
State religion has ironically been one of the greatest blessings for the proliferation of secularism throughout history (second only perhaps to the various scientific developments that have cast doubt on the truth claims put forth by religion). When the regime that sanctions a religion falls out of favor, so too does the religion.
 
Atrus said:
Besides... religion doesn't diminish nationalism.

Maybe, maybe not. Even though many religions often have very noticeable internationalist undertones, nationalism does usually win out in the end.
 
Ydahs said:
Wait, so there's something wrong with me saying I'm Muslim first and Australian second? There's nothing wrong at all with saying that.

It's not what you 'say' but what you 'do'. If you place religion first, then by and large you will vote in favor of theocratic policies that will inevitably undermine the state and its people.

Take for instance the Gay Marriage issue, where what is passed by legislature is then repealed by popular vote.

This get's worse depending on what else you place religion ahead of: Humanity, life, your family, and so forth.
 
Abolitionism was signficantly driven by religious conviction, no? If it were "country, family, and God", the "chattel" issue would probably have been put off for much longer by the government. Of course, we'd like to have similar positive impacts of the religious right today, but blame that on today's religious right which are letting themselves be so easily manipulated by the conservative political hacks who see nothing in religion except power.
 
Ydahs said:
Wait, so there's something wrong with me saying I'm Muslim first and Australian second? There's nothing wrong at all with saying that.

I know vanishingly little about you however you shape that kind of statement. Australian first, Muslim second; Equally Muslim and Australian; Muslim on Wednesdays, and Australian when the parents drop in for coffee. Not enough, by any stretch, to praise, condemn, meaningfully assess, or offer or retract any kind of cultural or moral acceptance.

Personal identity - to which all those large categories are inevitably reduced or are reducible - is just that: personal. For someone to sensibly and supportably find something wrong with you saying it, they'd have to find something wrong with you as a person.
 
laserbeam said:
While thats possible the story has been the one Police officer arrived on scene and took the guy down. There would have had to been other people armed involved.

I kinda suspect the Military is a bit embarassed that such a thing happened and no one was there to take him down. Pretty damn odd a civilian law enforcement official had to take him down and not an MP or something




Not really, many Bases due to the Wars, now use civ Contractors as Law Enforcement.
 
Statistically, you're much more likely to be shot on base by a young republican or right leaning Christian. So maybe they should screen for that.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Frag?

Frak.

Sad this acceptable on here.

I for one am sad for the dead. It's not funny. As someone who has a very close Muslim family member, this makes me sad. I wish more Muslims would stand up and scream from the rooftops that this type of violence is immoral, and that American values, freedom of religion, liberty, and democracy are all of humanities values.

OuterWorldVoice said:
Statistically, you're much more likely to be shot on base by a young republican or right leaning Christian. So maybe they should screen for that.


Okay, which study is that? Please do provide the proof, because it sure sounds like you're talking from your ass here.
 
drakesfortune said:
Sad this acceptable on here.

I for one am sad for the dead. It's not funny. As someone who has a very close Muslim family member, this makes me sad. I wish more Muslims would stand up and scream from the rooftops that this type of violence is immoral, and that American values, freedom of religion, liberty, and democracy are all of humanities values.




Okay, which study is that? Please do provide the proof, because it sure sounds like you're talking from your ass here.


Well he is trying to say that because the majority in the Military fall into that group, yet despite that fact, every major incident like this in the past few years as involved Islamic military Members.
 
methos75 said:
Well he is trying to say that because the majority in the Military fall into that group, yet despite that fact, every major incident like this in the past few years as involved Islamic military Members.

Proof?
 
drakesfortune said:
Okay, which study is that? Please do provide the proof, because it sure sounds like you're talking from your ass here.


I didn't quote a study, I used the Google. This guy alone is responsible for many such deaths:

October 16, 1991: A 35-year-old civilian drives a pickup truck into a Fort Hood cafeteria and fatally shoots 23 people wounding 20 more before killing himself. It was the deadliest shooting rampage in American history until the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Here's an article with a selection: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/05/eveningnews/main5541051.shtml

Look up the descriptions of the killers.

methos75 said:
Well he is trying to say that because the majority in the Military fall into that group, yet despite that fact, every major incident like this in the past few years as involved Islamic military Members.


Use the Google! The vast majority of US military "Frag" incidents are enlisted white Christian men killing other enlisted men and officers.
 
methos75 said:
There have been three major fratricide incidents in the last 10 years on bases, all three involved Muslim soldiers.


Are we only going back ten years? And are we including bases in foreign countries? No one told me the rules. Again, google is your friend and your enemy. And there have been more than three incidents. Unless you're cherry picking. Oh, I see that pile of cherries over there. Carry on.
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
Are we only going back ten years? And are we including bases in foreign countries? No one told me the rules. Again, google is your friend and your enemy. And there have been more than three incidents. Unless you're cherry picking. Oh, I see that pile of cherries over there. Carry on.


No I think you are confusing small limited in scope situations with what we are talking about which is mass Killings on post, have there been incidents where some white christian soldier went in and killed his Superior officer or something sure, but there has not been many in the last decade or even longer where one went in an killed numerous people as we saw at FT. Hood. but there have been three like that in the last few years involving Islamic soldiers. I am not even trying to make this into an anti-islam thing, its just the facts of the situation.
 
methos75 said:
No I think you are confusing small limited in scope situations with what we are talking about which is mass Killings on post, have there been incidents where some white christian soldier went in and killed his Superior officer or something sure, but there has not been many in the last decade or even longer where one went in an killed numerous people as we saw at FT. Hood. but there have been three like that in the last few years involving Islamic soldiers. I am not even trying to make this into an anti-islam thing, its just the facts of the situation.


Look, the point I am trying to make is that his religion isn't a factor so far. Other than it was a focus of apparent bullying, harassment and stress for a lonely, socially inadequate man who snapped.

His Islamic background, as far as I can tell, could have been replaced by race, fat, or red hair, or any number of things assholes could target him for. His behavior according to the news reports so far, is in keeping with any other "postal" nutbag and looks remarkably like Virginia Tech on the surface.

Do radical islamists want to shoot our soldiers? Sure they do. Was this that? It doesn't look like it so far.
 
Ydahs said:
Wait, so there's something wrong with me saying I'm Muslim first and Australian second?
from where I stand, yes

Do radical islamists want to shoot our soldiers? Sure they do. Was this that? It doesn't look like it so far.
em
how did you get to that conclusion from everything presented so far?
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
Are you an atheist? Lots of Americans, when asked, would say they're Christian first and American second.


I would always said that I am first a human being, then whatever floats your boat being it religion, country, sex or whatever but that is just me. It kind of gets upfront that we are all the same.


So in the end what is the conclusion? This guy started to get radical and ended killing the people he enrolled to help? That is fucked up. Sounds like something else snapped in his head as you don't get from one side to the other like that right?*


* if its stupid/inaccurate, excuse me but we have 0 info over here about the incident. Just trying to get a clear picture of it.
 
Enosh said:
from where I stand, yes


em
how did you get to that conclusion from everything presented so far?


Em, because it looks like he was a lonely nutbag first, and a radical islamist second.

Point being that he doesn't appear to have been radicalized by an organization, but rather driven to this by his own inadequacies and mania. I've been reading a lot of his bio and history.

Might well be we discover he was linked to some organization, but right now, it looks like he snapped and was acting alone and in isolation.

I'd liken him to an abortion clinic bomber in terms of his psychology. Channeling his nutbaggery into what he considers a cause, but ultimately was going to snap anyway.
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
Em, because it looks like he was a lonely nutbag first, and a radical islamist second.

Point being that he doesn't appear to have been radicalized by an organization, but rather driven to this by his own inadequacies and mania. I've been reading a lot of his bio and history.

Might well be we discover he was linked to some organization, but right now, it looks like he snapped and was acting alone and in isolation.

I'd liken him to an abortion clinic bomber in terms of his psychology. Channeling his nutbaggery into what he considers a cause, but ultimately was going to snap anyway.

what the?
you don't need to be in a organization to be radical
those abortion clinic bombers are radicals
this guy was a radical
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...killer-linked-to-September-11-terrorists.html
Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas, attended the controversial Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, in 2001 at the same time as two of the September 11 terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt. His mother's funeral was held there in May that year.

The preacher at the time was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born Yemeni scholar who was banned from addressing a meeting in London by video link in August because he is accused of supporting attacks on British troops and backing terrorist organisations.

Hasan's eyes "lit up" when he mentioned his deep respect for al-Awlaki's teachings, according to a fellow Muslim officer at the Fort Hood base in Texas, the scene of Thursday's horrific shooting spree.

As investigators look at Hasan's motives and mindset, his attendance at the mosque could be an important piece of the jigsaw. Al-Awlaki moved to Dar al-Hijrah as imam in January, 2001, from the west coast, and three months later the September 11 hijackers Nawaf al-Hamzi and Hani Hanjour began attending his services. A third hijacker attended his services in California.

Hasan was praying at Dar al-Hijrah at about the same time, and the FBI will now want to investigate whether he met the two terrorists.

..............Kamran Pasha, the author of Mother of the Believers, a new novel relating the story of Islam from the perspective of Aisha, Prophet Mohammed's wife, was told of the al-Awlaki connection from a Muslim friend who is also an officer at Fort Hood. Using the name Richard, the recent convert to Islam described how he frequently prayed with Hasan at the town mosque after Hasan was deployed to Fort Hood in July. They last worshipped together at predawn prayers on the day of the massacre when Hasan "appeared relaxed and not in any way troubled or nervous".

But Richard had previously argued with Hasan when he said that he felt the "war on terror" was really a war against Islam, expressed anti-Jewish sentiments and defended suicide bombings.

"I asked Richard whether he believed that Hasan was motivated by religious radicalism in his murderous actions," Mr Pasha said.

"Richard, with great sadness, said that he believed this was true. He also believed that psychological factors from Hasan's job as an army psychiatrist added to his pathos. The news that he would be deployed overseas, to a war that he rejected, may have pushed him over the edge.

"But Richard does not excuse Hasan. As a Muslim, he finds Hasan's religious perspectives to be fundamentally misguided. And as a soldier, he finds Hasan's actions cowardly and evil."
 
erk...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-07/major-hasans-hidden-militancy/full/

But a closer look behind the doors of the mosque and inside the conversations between the engineer and the doctor reveal a more complex picture of a young first-generation American Muslim man living a life of dissonance between his identity as an American and his ideology as a Muslim who had accepted a literal, rigid interpretation of Islam, akin to the puritanical Wahhabi and Salafi interpretations of Islam that define the theology of militancy inside the Muslim world today, according to community members who knew Hasan.

“So many time I talked with him,” said Akhter, a community leader who is sort of like a mosque gadfly, challenging congregants to reject literal, rigid interpretations of Islam. “I was trying to modernize him. I tried my best. He used to hate America as a whole. He was more anti-American than American.”

Despite all the conversations, Akther said, “I couldn’t get through to him. He was a typical fundamentalist Muslim.”
 
guys this has nothing to do with islam or terrorism. look!


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-...l-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

I wonder if the same political correctness that has people denying reality here got in the way.


The Associated Press reported Sunday that Major Hasan attended the Falls Church mosque when Awlaki was there.

The Telegraph of London reported that Awlaki had made contact with two of the 9/11 hijackers when he was in San Diego.
 
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