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[Vermillion]

Entirely idiotic? Lol, ok.

Guns enable those with the desire to kill to do so, if they are removed, there will be less death, it's simple.

You're comparing it to fucking Japan. The guns are not the sole (or even main) issue here.

There's something else in the culture causing these people to murder. Look at the past topics that brought about this one. The perpetrators were crazy people with a desire to kill others. It wasn't a heat of the moment thing, it was very planned. Why did they desire to kill others (and the former in movie character get-up, no less)?

People in America murder for a very different reason than guns. Why?

 

[fanboi]

What percentage of American gun violence is gang related?


no it wouldn't, there are too many already out there.

Yes it would.

Over time to get a new gun legally everyoe would hae done tests etc.

 

[mike23]

Did you take a look at the rigorous screening involved in acquiring guns in Japan? That process alone could cut down on gun deaths in the U.S.

It really wouldn't by much. What percent of gun murders do you realistically think are committed by legal gun owners vs illegal owners? Also, what percentage of those legal owners would have killed someone with an illegal gun if they were denied a legal one? You could ban gun ownership outright, and gun murder won't drop to anywhere near 0.

I've said this before:

I see the gun control issue much like I see game piracy and drm. Add all the DRM you want to a game, all you're going to do is piss off the legal buyers and justify the pirates. And the piracy rate will either stay the same or go up.

A reasonable DRM will prevent a small percent of pirates, as will reasonable gun control. A lot of either will lead to an increase of law breakers and make everything worse.

 

[Horse Armour]

On that note: Why do Americans care about what the 'founding fathers' had to say? I mean, they lived more than 200 years ago, what possible relevance could they have to modern America?

 

[Blackace]

Oh, for sure. There are certainly some murder cases that get classified as 変死 (unnatural death) and are just swept under the rug.

I just think that, as a culture, Japan is far less violent than the United States. Even if gun ownership was a thing, I don't think gun-related murders would be nearly as high.

I don't know... I see people daily who I am sure would shoot the entire train up if they had a gun.

 

[artist]

Isn't that kind of the point? Guns = more deaths

Well not if you look at the suicide rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

 

[pompidu]

Doesn't Finland have a ridiculously high suicide rate too?

Kind of weird some of the least violent countries have the biggest suicide rates.

Good, I'd rather those people take their own life instead of taking another persons life.

 

[mike23]

On that note: Why do Americans care about what the 'founding fathers' had to say? I mean, they lived more than 200 years ago, what possible relevance could they have to modern America?

Besides everything else in the Constitution?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What is your question? Is it the false equivocation that if we have active gun control in this country, then our police force is going to all of a sudden be unafraid of the populace and impose some authoritarian agenda? Because no, I don't believe that will happen.

Will you please answer the question. Are you saying you would be fine with the type of customary Japanese Police and Legal powers in the US?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Neat.

Ideally all the guns in the US would go away, but they are not going to. Regulation is not going to do any good at this point, the US went past the point of no return long ago.

 

[Blackace]

yes but at the same time there are way more people trying to be gang bangers than the well organized Yakuza.

lol yaks are far from organized..

Better than standard street gangs but not some well oiled machine

I bet people didn't know that about 20 mins from my place in a spot called Hachioji they had drive by shootings daily in the late 80s 90s

The police were so impotent to stop it they gave maps to kids to show safe routes home

 

[.GqueB.]

Neat.

Ideally all the guns in the US would go away, but they are not going to. Regulation is not going to do any good at this point, the US went past the point of no return long ago.

Guns aren't really the problem. I feel like if guns went away, we'd find other ways to kill each other.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Neat.

Ideally all the guns in the US would go away, but they are not going to. Regulation is not going to do any good at this point, the US went past the point of no return long ago.

And this is exactly the sad, cynical attitude that lets the poisonously barbaric gun culture of the United States flourish.

 

[remnant]

Sure, it just seems obvious at this point that there is something very, very fucked up regarding the American citizenship's relationships to gun culture and violence in general. And I think everyone should be looking around themselves and asking why we're here, how we got here, what it looks like in other countries and what we can do to start shifting away from this level of barbarism.

So now we're barbarians if we don't agree to more gun control?

 

[GatorBait]

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

Does anyone actually believe the above is too burdensome of a requirement to have in the U.S.? The only portions I'd excise are providing the police with the exact location of the gun/ammo, and having the police inspect the gun on an annual basis.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

lol yaks are far from organized..

Better than standard street gangs but not some well oiled machine

I bet people didn't know that about 20 mins from my place in a spot called Hachioji they had drive by shootings daily in the late 80s 90s

The police were so impotent to stop it they gave maps to kids to show safe routes home

Hey if it's not reported in the stats is it really a crime!

 

[Ultima_5]

Besides everything else in the Constitution?

Yup! Because everything that's in the consitution is correct in everyway and should never be questioned!!

 

[Alligatorjandro]

America is just too violent.

 

[Mercury Fred]

So now we're barbarians if we don't agree to more gun control?

Actually, you're right, 12,000+ gun deaths a year is totally civilized. Sorry, my bad.

 

[Hoo-doo]

And this is exactly the sad, cynical attitude that lets the poisonously barbaric gun culture of the United States flourish.

What do you suggest? There are millions and millions of guns in circulation right now, they aren't going away.

 

[Big Baybee]

And this is exactly the sad, cynical attitude that lets the poisonously barbaric gun culture of the United States flourish.

I'm all for gun control, but I feel he is right. How do you get hundreds of millions of guns out of peoples homes and off of the street?

 

[Byakuya769]

Hey, Japan is a more peaceful place so this is meaningless. Let's just keep our more violent culture because Japan has a more peaceful one.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

You're comparing it to fucking Japan. The guns are not the sole (or even main) issue here.

There's something else in the culture causing these people to murder. Look at the past topics that brought about this one. The perpetrators were crazy people with a desire to kill others. It wasn't a heat of the moment thing, it was very planned. Why did they desire to kill others (and the former in movie character get-up, no less)?

People in America murder for a very different reason than guns. Why?

Guns enable those who wish to kill, to do so, as I just said.
If the gun is removed then there are less instances where a person is able to act on their impulses, there will be less mass shootings in cinemas, and in schools.
The fact that gun ownership is embraced as it is in the US, is probably partly why people would be so quick to commit an act such as murder.
Many desire to kill others, in any country, be it a fit of rage or a deep routed psychological issue - but few have the ability to carry out such an act because there isn't access to a gun as readily as in the US.

There are lots of reasons why the culture in the US is the way it is, but to say that guns are not partly responsible for this, is idiotic.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Yes, folks, it's a cultural problem.

No, folks, that does not dismiss the deaths of 12,000 people (which doesn't even get into the statistic of armed assault and armed injury)

It's culture, not DNA. It can change.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Will you please answer the question. Are you saying you would be fine with the type of customary Japanese Police and Legal powers in the US?

I don't see how this is relevant to the topic of whether I would be ok with stricter gun control, e.g.:

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

Why would I choose to be railroaded into some non-existent debate on whether I am, or am not, a scholar on Japan's police powers?

 

[Horse Armour]

Yup! Because everything that's in the consitution is correct in everyway and should never be questioned!!

It's crazy that Americans are letting themselves be killed by the thousands just because of what some paranoid old men more than 200 years ago had to say.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Does anyone actually believe the above is too burdensome of a requirement to have in the U.S.? The only portions I'd excise are providing the police with the exact location of the gun/ammo, and having the police inspect the gun on an annual basis.

Look at how it's handled in New York City, New Jersey. and California, people with gun banning agendas use the bureaucracy as a way to limit gun ownership as much as possible by making it onerous and slow and open to a lot of "flexibility in granting licences."

 

[Ultima_5]

Look at how it's handled in New York City, New Jersey. and California, people with gun banning agendas use the bureaucracy as a way to limit gun ownership as much as possible by making it onerous and slow and open to a lot of "flexibility in granting licences."

"Five Days? But I'm mad now!

 

[R2D4]

An interesting look at the difference between gun-death plagued America and virtually gun-death free Japan.

Thanks. It's been a week since someone made an anti-gun thread.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I don't see how this is relevant to the topic of whether I would be ok with stricter gun control, e.g.:
...

So you won't answer the question?

"Five Days? But I'm mad now!

That's a great clip, but it doesn't address the question asked.

 

[remnant]

Actually, you're right, 12,000+ gun deaths a year is totally civilized. Sorry, my bad.

Is gun related death the only important stat when it comes to whether or not people are civilized.

 

[Amakusa]

Japan... guns in japan? Thats rare

 

[Blackace]

Japan... guns in japan? Thats rare

Hmm.. Not as uncommon as you think...

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Is gun related death the only important stat when it comes to whether or not people are civilized.

I would also think the ability for LGBT to be married is one, something that exists in parts of the US, but nowhere in Japan.

 

[ToxicAdam]

America is just too violent.

We're getting better.

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/American-Population-Firearms-Deaths.png

 

[remnant]

Yup! Because everything that's in the consitution is correct in everyway and should never be questioned!!

Prohibition being used in an argument about whether or not the constitution in a thread about banning guns. Irony

 

[astroturfing]

Gotta be honest, pleasantly surprised by both Finland and Serbia. For being such gun-toting countries, the number is surprisingly low.

yeah, i'm Finnish and it's kind of strange, knowing that guns are everywhere, yet nowhere to be seen... it's almost as if they weren't even a part of our culture, even though so many people own them. a paradox of some sort. i know my granpa owned guns, but he never even mentioned them or showed them to me or my parents. i think he only used them for hunting elk or something.

i guess we just take gun safety/control very seriously and don't think guns are "cool" and don't fetishize them. i've never in my life met anyone who brags about owning a gun or going to a gun range or anything. the only guns me or my friends played with growing up as boys were Super Soakers.

it might have something to do with WW2, how we literally had to defend our homes from Soviet invaders. guns kind of lost their romantic aspect when they were pointed at our loved ones by a massive invading army... so now they are mainly just neutral tools, nothing to get all excited about or brag about.

 

[Mercury Fred]

What do you suggest? There are millions and millions of guns in circulation right now, they aren't going away.

I suggest starting small and modestly by closing loopholes in gun regulations. I would aggressively push no questions asked gun buyback/ trade in programs-- these already exist around the country. This one netted a military grade rocket launcher.

Obviously, these wouldn't be a magic fix, but we have to start somewhere.

 

[fastford58]

Is gun related death the only important stat when it comes to whether or not people are civilized.

Of course not. But it is when you are pushing an obvious personal agenda.

 

[pompidu]

Does anyone actually believe the above is too burdensome of a requirement to have in the U.S.? The only portions I'd excise are providing the police with the exact location of the gun/ammo, and having the police inspect the gun on an annual basis.

No not at all. Your possesing a very dangerous weapon that can do great harm to a great number of people in a short amount of time (referring to pistols).

 

[Pai Pai Master]

But America is virtually moe-free.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Actually, you're right, 12,000+ gun deaths a year is totally civilized. Sorry, my bad.

No problem, happens to the best of us.

 

[remnant]

I would also think the ability for LGBT to be married is one, something that exists in parts of the US, but nowhere in Japan.

Shouldn't suicide rate be looked at as well? I mean what kind of civilized people want to kill themselves?

The culture of America, the crime, the poverty, the bad laws that encourage crime and homicides in poorer areas of America should be the focus on lowering violence in America.

 

[bill0527]

Guns aren't really the problem. I feel like if guns went away, we'd find other ways to kill each other.

Not sure if this was posted in any of the other countless gun control threads, but here it is again anyway.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/as...ager_kills_8__wounds_5_in_china_knife_attack/

Teenager kills 8 , wounds 5 in China knife attack

BEIJING—A teenager killed eight people with a knife and wounded five more in northeast China after falling out with his girlfriend, state media said Thursday.

The teen killed two of her family members and six more people before fleeing, the state-run Legal Daily newspaper said. It reported he was caught but did not describe the circumstances.

The official Xinhua News Agency said the attack took place Wednesday night in Liaoning province. Media said the 17-year-old suspect is from Fushun city and his surname is Li. The attack happened in Yongling town.

Police in Xinbin county, which oversees the town, declined to comment.

Violent crimes are growing more common in China. There was a string of knife attacks against schoolchildren across the country in early 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50.

 

[fastford58]

Shouldn't suicide rate be looked at as well? I mean what kind of civilized people want to kill themselves?

The cuulture of America, the crime, the poverty, the bad laws that encourage crime and homicides in poorer areas of America should be the focus on lowering violence in America.

WHAT?! Attack the actual root of the issues? Screw that, easier to ban guns.

 

[Mercury Fred]

It's crazy that Americans are letting themselves be killed by the thousands just because of what some paranoid old men more than 200 years ago had to say.

Agreed. It's grim how sacrosanct gun ownership has become to some of the U.S. population.

 

[(._.)]

12,000+ gun deaths all from school shootings and legal gun owners

^^^ what this thread thinks the number stands for

 

[MrDenny]

The cultures are vastly different.
If japan has the same amount of guns as the U.S., japan's gun related deaths would still probably be a lot lower than U.S.
On the other hand, I believe Japan's suicide rate is a lot higher than U.S.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

So you won't answer the question?

I suppose not; I'd rather discuss the issue at hand: Better gun control. Even your red herrings are nonsensical.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Will you please answer the question. Are you saying you would be fine with the type of customary Japanese Police and Legal powers in the US?

Are you freaking serious? You live in a country where you can be detained indefinitely without trial just because somebody says the word "terrorist."