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[TheExodu5]

Also, to those who recommend Sony, realize the panels themselves are manufactured by either Samsung or Sharp... Sony doesn't make their own panels anymore, at least that's been true for the past few years.

Pioneer didn't make their own panels either in the end. It didn't stop them from having the best plasma TVs on the market.

Also, I'd avoid edge-lit LEDs entirely. They're a lot worse than the low end CCFL LCDs.

And yeah, reports are saying that panels are going to be worse all around this year (from all manufacturers). The low end panels from last year were absolutely astounding, so I'm not really surprised.

 

[poppabk]

The problem is source material is created with the intention of being viewed at a reference level. That's what filmmakers do. It's what game makers do. Judging tvs in a store isn't going to tell you squat about how accurately they reproduce this vision.

If you'd prefer something look like a cartoon, it's probably not a bad approach. But if you don't want things altered, it's impossible to judge anything this way.

If you are interested in achieving this though then you can only watch in a darkened room. If so then the reviews with in depth testing will be a good guide for the best set to purchase. I think the majority of people are not going to be watching under reference conditions the majority of the time though. Nor will they be watching under bright fluorescent lights like in a showroom.
For regular TV watching and playing games my settings aren't even close to reference - I much prefer a bright white rather than 6500K and during the day I am pretty sure I have my luminance way higher than recommended. My settings for watching movies in the dark are entirely different and that is where my TV's relatively poor black levels start to show, but that is a minority of my viewing.

 

[Haint]

The problem is source material is created with the intention of being viewed at a reference level. That's what filmmakers do. It's what game makers do. Judging tvs in a store isn't going to tell you squat about how accurately they reproduce this vision.

If you'd prefer something look like a cartoon, it's probably not a bad approach. But if you don't want things altered, it's impossible to judge anything this way.

Unfortunately, a lot of developers (possibly most) do not really do this. Black Rock studio's is on record saying they "master" their video levels to shitty display standards because "that's what most people have, and how they use them" (presumably this means tailoring to low gamma, dynamic contrast features, and vivid modes). This fact is further evidenced by the overwhelming number of 360 games that do not correct for it's natively high gamma (I'd estimate 2.6+), which was also implemented by MS to pander to a lowest common denominator.

 

[Snogger_T]

Figure this is as good of thread as any to post this (instead of making a new one)...

So I'm going to be in the market for a new TV in the next few weeks for my "entertainment room" that I'm putting together (basically splitting my bedroom up into 2 rooms). I'm looking in the range of 46-50" and I have ~$1,500 to spend. I was leaning towards an Samsung LED LCD originally, but it seems that they have gotten really bad about having inconsistent displays (shame, I love my old samsung panel). What are some options in that price range that GAF recommends?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Unfortunately, a lot of developers (possibly most) do not really do this. Black Rock studio's is on record saying they "master" their video levels to shitty display standards because "that's what most people have, and how they use them" (presumably this means tailoring to low gamma, dynamic contrast features, and vivid modes). This fact is further evidenced by the overwhelming number of 360 games that do not correct for it's natively high gamma (I'd estimate 2.6+), which was also implemented by MS to pander to a lowest common denominator.

Yeah. This is true. Even still, it's still best to know what a TV is technically capable of by having hard measurements. None of this can be done in the circus atmosphere of a store.

I know better, and even I've been impressed by the pop of some tvs in a showroom atmosphere. "Man those colors pop. That's really lush. It looks so much more vivid than the others." Then I'll snap out of the hypnotic dance and ask myself, "Is playing field grass really supposed to be 'radioactive green?l" It's very easy to be hypnotized by the lushness and forget it's totally unnatural.

However you calibrate a set at home, it's still best to have a set that can get close to reference. The truer it is, the more working room you have. A showroom is worthless for gathering any facts. And it's not even a good barometer of the smell test. Not many of us have a living room with a gazillion overhead fluorescent lights flooding the room. So how is something looking "good" even relevant?

 

[Johnny2Bags]

Do you feel like its really throwing a lot of heat around the room compared to when you didn't have it?

No it's not too bad... having any T.V. on for hours on end (break - in) will create heat, but i have a small/medium apartment and it's not that bad compared to many. Also it's SILENT... no buzzing as some have experiences with.

 

[see5harp]

Figure this is as good of thread as any to post this (instead of making a new one)...

So I'm going to be in the market for a new TV in the next few weeks for my "entertainment room" that I'm putting together (basically splitting my bedroom up into 2 rooms). I'm looking in the range of 46-50" and I have ~$1,500 to spend. I was leaning towards an Samsung LED LCD originally, but it seems that they have gotten really bad about having inconsistent displays (shame, I love my old samsung panel). What are some options in that price range that GAF recommends?

For Plasma right now you can get the newest Panasonic for that much. You can even get last years GT25 for around $900 and spend the difference on a very decent receiver.

 

[Snogger_T]

For Plasma right now you can get the newest Panasonic for that much. You can even get last years GT25 for around $900 and spend the difference on a very decent receiver.

- I have a pretty good Onkyo receiver right now, but I do need a new set of matched speakers (right now I have a bunch of good unmatched speakers). I guess I want a TV that has very low lag and will be high quality for a few years. I've always been kind of iffy on getting a plasma though. Seems to be the more popular choice in this thread over the LED LCD's.

 

[see5harp]

- I have a pretty good Onkyo receiver right now, but I do need a new set of matched speakers (right now I have a bunch of good unmatched speakers). I guess I want a TV that has very low lag and will be high quality for a few years. I've always been kind of iffy on getting a plasma though. Seems to be the more popular choice in this thread over the LED LCD's.

Buy from Amazon and if you aren't satisfied send the thing back. I haven't run slides like most, play a ton of games with HUD and the G25 looks amazing for blu-ray with no noticeable IR. I was set on getting the latest and greatest but at this point am amazed at the value of last years model. You can get two very decent fronts and a matching center for $500.

 

[Snogger_T]

Buy from Amazon and if you aren't satisfied send the thing back. I haven't run slides like most, play a ton of games with HUD and the G25 looks amazing for blu-ray with no noticeable IR. I was set on getting the latest and greatest but at this point am amazed at the value of last years model. You can get two very decent fronts and a matching center for $500.

- Looking on Amazon, there seems to be several models for the G25...any specific ones you recommend (or anyone for that matter)?

edit: never mind, only has one 50" model. Are the 2011 models going to be much better than the G25? the 50" model is going for $1,400 without prime shipping (so another $100) right now.

 

[abstract alien]

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024010&p_id=3341&seq=1&format=2

If you're not going to need the extra port very often, I recommend just buying a male to female cable. Plug that into the TV and then just hot swap the cables into that whenever you want to switch between two devices. HDMI ports are kind of flimsy. I wouldn't want to be constantly plugging/unplugging into the back of the tv. But this solution is dirt cheap, easy to swap cables, and has no degradation of signal.

I will definitely be picking one of these up. Even if I don't use it, its something nice to have around. No degration also? Can't beat that, thanks.

No it's not too bad... having any T.V. on for hours on end (break - in) will create heat, but i have a small/medium apartment and it's not that bad compared to many. Also it's SILENT... no buzzing as some have experiences with.

Just what I wanted to hear. I seem to be pretty warm by nature, maybe because I'm always moving around both in and outside of the home, but that couple with the approaching texas heat could have been a bad situation. Glad to know its all good, and the buzzing would drive me into a damn mad house, so thats good as well. Seems like all signs are pointing to ""go" at this point. Thanks for the info.

- Looking on Amazon, there seems to be several models for the G25...any specific ones you recommend (or anyone for that matter)?

edit: never mind, only has one 50" model. Are the 2011 models going to be much better than the G25? the 50" model is going for $1,400 without prime shipping (so another $100) right now.

The 2011 GT model(GT30) is getting quite a bit of negative flack at the moment, sadly. As it stands currently, the ST30 seems to be the preferred from just about everyone who touches the two, which was the exact opposite of what happened last year...from what I gather. Also, the ST30 is going for a nice price right about now, and almost everyone is saying it puts out a slightly better picture than the GT25, with a few added touches over last years model. That added on top of the fact that it does 3D as well if you are interested.

I saw an ST30 in person, in the most unfavorable viewing conditions for a plasma, and was still impressed by it. I'm sure one of the more enlightened folks in here will give you a bit more info(its a bit scattered over the past few pages), as I'm a novice myself.

 

[Smokey]

Eh? The IR does happen. It's temporary, but still annoying.

I never said it didn't. I even mentioned it in my post. Having to run the "flush program" everyday was the exaggeration I was getting at. New day, new weekend for my crave for a new TV. Wondering if I should take a chance on getting a non-dud GT30...

 

[Zeal]

does anyone know when the ST30 is supposed to be released? everywhere says preorder, but i thought this set was coming in march.

 

[RoboPlato]

does anyone know when the ST30 is supposed to be released? everywhere says preorder, but i thought this set was coming in march.

It's out in sizes up to 55 inches. Bigger sizes are coming next month.

 

[Smokey]

Maybe you don't have to do that, but knowing myself I'd constantly worry about the IR, eventhough it might not be that realistic concern. =)

Fair enough

does anyone know when the ST30 is supposed to be released? everywhere says preorder, but i thought this set was coming in march.

Say what?

ST30 at Amazon

Panasonic ST30 at Best Buy

 

[1-D_FTW]

Dang. Prices are going up. 50 incher had dropped to 1119 not that long ago. I guess the GT being a turd has caused a run on the STs and a spike in prices.

 

[abstract alien]

does anyone know when the ST30 is supposed to be released? everywhere says preorder, but i thought this set was coming in march.

Where are you from? Maybe it hasn't released in your region yet perhaps?

 

[see5harp]

- Looking on Amazon, there seems to be several models for the G25...any specific ones you recommend (or anyone for that matter)?

edit: never mind, only has one 50" model. Are the 2011 models going to be much better than the G25? the 50" model is going for $1,400 without prime shipping (so another $100) right now.

Not sure, I read a couple stories about the S30 being around the same/maybe a tad better than the G25, but went ahead and bought the G25 because of the THX mode and the difference in price. Not sure how the G30 looked because most of the electronics stores never have good source material. All I can say is that I'm very satisfied with the G25 50''. 3D games and movies do look a lot better than my Dad's new Samsung LCD, but IMO you should (edit: SHOULD NOT) base any decisions on that tech.

 

[Van Owen]

Did I miss something? When did the GT become a turd?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Fluctuating blacks. Although some people are claiming it's a manufacturing defect and not all sets are defective. Not sure I'll believe it at the moment because the Panasonic defense force is in full swing and you can't trust who are the Panasonic shrills. We'll see. But I wouldn't buy one until it was sorted definitively.

 

[JB1981]

I never said it didn't. I even mentioned it in my post. Having to run the "flush program" everyday was the exaggeration I was getting at. New day, new weekend for my crave for a new TV. Wondering if I should take a chance on getting a non-dud GT30...

i bet you will buy it and fucking love it. don't get caught up in the internet bullshit

 

[Van Owen]

Fluctuating blacks. Although some people are claiming it's a manufacturing defect and not all sets are defective. Not sure I'll believe it at the moment because the Panasonic defense force is in full swing and you can't trust who are the Panasonic shrills. We'll see. But I wouldn't buy one until it was sorted definitively.

You mean fluctuating brightness?

 

[1-D_FTW]

You mean fluctuating brightness?

Yeah. Sorry. Guess my mind was on auto-pilot.

 

[abstract alien]

Dang. Prices are going up. 50 incher had dropped to 1119 not that long ago. I guess the GT being a turd has caused a run on the STs and a spike in prices.

Oh wow, they really did lol

 

[Smokey]

i bet you will buy it and fucking love it. don't get caught up in the internet bullshit

I've thought this too...but even if I wouldn't notice it's still an actual, documented issues on SOME GT30's.

Maybe I should take a chance lol

 

[Zeal]

thanks for the clarification. im looking for the 60" model that comes later this month of the ST30. thanks.

 

[Van Owen]

Yeah. Sorry. Guess my mind was on auto-pilot.

Well, apparently it's not on ALL units. My guess is it will be ironed out over the next few weeks, either through firmware updates or at manufacturing.

 

[Raistlin]

Also, to those who recommend Sony, realize the panels themselves are manufactured by either Samsung or Sharp... Sony doesn't make their own panels anymore, at least that's been true for the past few years.

The reality is there are really only a handful of manufacturers of large scale LCD panels out there. Most of the TV's you see in stores have panels made by someone else. That doesn't make them all the same. There is more to a TV than the actual LCD - screen, processing, light engine, etc. So it's not like you can necessarily get the exact TV from more than one place.

More than that ... while many lower-end TV's may simply utilize OEM panes, at the higher end, many times the company releasing the TV actually makes the spec for the panel. It's basically a custom part and they are simply hiring a manufacture to do the actual fabbing. Panel manufacturers get plenty of cash from outside their own TV lines.


Now back to the statement at hand ... it isn't even quite true to begin with . Most of those panels that people cite Samsung as making are actually from S-LCD Corp. It's a joint venture between Sony and Samsung and has been around since 2004 (the agreement was actually announced the previous year).

In order to differentiate itself more however, Sony has also struck a deal with Sharp to make another joint venture. It appears this facility will be used moving forward for their high-end units. Similarly, Samsung has added a new line to S-LCD, outside of Sony's jurisdiction, in order to make its high-end custom panels.

It's a pretty convoluted situation with a ton of incest. In other words, pretty much normal for the CE industry

 

[Haint]

While most have probably already read this, I'll post an update on the 2011 Panasonic PDP's and the supposed "Brightness Fluctuations" or "Floating Whites" (discussed and seen here). D-Nice has learned through contacts that this is likely an inherent side effect of the 2011's "Driving" methods (which he describes as "Dynamic"). It will effect every 2011 model to some degree--ranging from almost unnoticeable, to tolerable, to in your face. He suggests any differences can be attributed to unit to unit variations and loose tolerances. Given these recent discussions, his response to rising blacks being eliminated in the 2011's is: "don't count on it".

 

[poweld]

Well, just bit the bullet on a "Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma HDTV"

It'll be here on Friday - hopefully it'll live up to the good words!

 

[shinobi602]

Don't know where you guys are seeing those high prices at...

Just helped my mother buy a 43" Samsung plasma for $550 at Best Buy the other day.

 

[Das Boot]

I've had the panny G20 for awhile now. I LOVE it.

I originally bought a sammy LCD, but did not like the motion blur at all, especially when it came to gaming. Returned it and got the G20 and have been happier ever since. I haven't noticed or experienced any of the concerns about fluctuating black levels that some people have described.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[Johnny2Bags]

Well, just bit the bullet on a "Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma HDTV"

It'll be here on Friday - hopefully it'll live up to the good words!

Congrats man! I bought one a week or so ago and it's beautiful! No problems with blacks here

 

[poweld]

Congrats man! I bought one a week or so ago and it's beautiful! No problems with blacks here

Thanks. While I'm at it, should I be running these break-in slides everybody is murmuring about? Is this the equivalent of playing pink noise on a new set of headphones or something?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Thanks. While I'm at it, should I be running these break-in slides everybody is murmuring about? Is this the equivalent of playing pink noise on a new set of headphones or something?

Pretty much. Phosphors age at an incredible rate when they're new. After about 100 hours, the decay rate slows WAY down. This ensures that during the period of high decay, each color is being aged at identical rates. And if you leave the set running 24/7, it's only 4 days. Not that big of an inconvenience.

 

[Smokey]

I'm ordering a LCD..went to the new apt today and given the way it is setup a LCD will probably be best.

sigh

Went to best buy to grab either the D8000 or last years Sony NX model. That was before I played dumb and asked the Best Buy employee what the best LCD was and he took me to the budget Toshiba. I asked what about those over there (pointing in new direction) he told me all of those have same features as the toshiba...and some are FIVE years old...

...

Figured that was a sign from the man above



Also..is the sharp60le831u a new model? sort of wanted when i was in there

 

[abstract alien]

I'm ordering a LCD..went to the new apt today and given the way it is setup a LCD will probably be best.

sigh

Went to best buy to grab either the D8000 or last years Sony NX model. That was before I played dumb and asked the Best Buy employee what the best LCD was and he took me to the budget Toshiba. I asked what about those over there (pointing in new direction) he told me all of those have same features as the toshiba...and some are FIVE years old...

...

Figured that was a sign from the man above



Also..is the sharp60le831u a new model? sort of wanted when i was in there

What's the new set up in your new home like? Super abundance of sunlight?

 

[Smokey]

What's the new set up in your new home like? Super abundance of sunlight?

basically

lots of windows

 

[Naked Snake]

While most have probably already read this, I'll post an update on the 2011 Panasonic PDP's and the supposed "Brightness Fluctuations" or "Floating Whites" (discussed and seen here). D-Nice has learned through contacts that this is likely an inherent side effect of the 2011's "Driving" methods (which he describes as "Dynamic"). It will effect every 2011 model to some degree--ranging from almost unnoticeable, to tolerable, to in your face. He suggests any differences can be attributed to unit to unit variations and loose tolerances. Given these recent discussions, his response to rising blacks being eliminated in the 2011's is: "don't count on it".

Damn it Panasonic! I haven't been following the tech, but this post is making it seem like new quality issues are introduced every year in Panny's plasma line. Makes me feel not so bad about not upgrading my panel from 2009.

 

[Kalnos]

How far away do you guys sit from your 40+ inch TVs? I don't know why, but I always want to be like 4-6 feet away or closer, even if it's fucking huge.

Probably just used to it from when I was little.

 

[demosthenes]

Damn it Panasonic! I haven't been following the tech, but this post is making it seem like new quality issues are introduced every year in Panny's plasma line. Makes me feel not so bad about not upgrading my panel from 2009.

TY Panasonic for making me not want to buy another TV!

 

[The Chosen One]

I know this is a weird question but is there any way to emulate the "soap opera effect" on a Panasonic GT25?

Obviously, I don't want it for films, but the NBA playoffs are starting and it would be nice to get that kind of look for sports events.

Panasonics used to have a IFC mode to toggle the motion interpolation but that setting is not on the GT25. Any way to get it so sports events have that "reality" window look?

Otherwise, since getting the replacement the TV has been great so far. The 3D effects are on par with the movies. I didn't think it would look this good.

My only complaint thus far is that I wish there were more picture setting options to tweak the picture in more varied ways. Even though the "soap opera" effect is generally frowned upon, I would have at least liked to have the option to turn it on and off.

 

[abstract alien]

My only complaint thus far is that I wish there were more picture setting options to tweak the picture in more varied ways. Even though the "soap opera" effect is generally frowned upon, I would have at least liked to have the option to turn it on and off.

"The Soap Opera Mode" is gorgeous on animation films. Some action scenes as well. I forgot it on and tried to watch a horror film....bad mistake lol. I hope more films with heavy cg go the route of higher framerates once Avatar 2 releases.

 

[Smokey]

Well I did it

Walked out of best buy with Samsung 55" D8000. First foray into the world of LCD. We'll see how it works out, but glad to have something for start of NBA playoffs!

 

[JB1981]

Well I did it

Walked out of best buy with Samsung 55" D8000. First foray into the world of LCD. We'll see how it works out, but glad to have something for start of NBA playoffs!

Wow you finally pulled the trigger! I hope you enjoy it but knowing you I have a feeling the buyer's remorse will set in in about 3 days LOL!!!!!

 

[Smokey]

Wow you finally pulled the trigger! I hope you enjoy it but knowing you I have a feeling the buyer's remorse will set in in about 3 days LOL!!!!!

You already know I checked the exact terms of the return policy. Last time I bought a 61" DLP for the halo 3 beta and NBA playoffs and returned it in 29 days lolol.

Situation is different now though, so less chance of that happening. I did buy their top of the line LCD so I'm expecting it to be halfway decent.

 

[abstract alien]

Damn, just ran across a brand new 50" VT25 for a grand. It's petty much a given that it's better than the ST30 in every way, especially for gaming, right?

 

[Smokey]

Damn, just ran across a brand new 50" VT25 for a grand. It's petty much a given that it's better than the ST30 in every way, especially for gaming, right?

Wtf scoop that up asap, thats crazy.

Got the Samsung hooked up, won't get directv until tomorrow..but gotdamn if the 8000 led isn't sexy as fuck. Everyone that came by today commented on its design...then followed up how much it cost lolz.

Get some gaming time tomorrow ill post how it does.

 

[abstract alien]

Wtf scoop that up asap, thats crazy.

Got the Samsung hooked up, won't get directv until tomorrow..but gotdamn if the 8000 led isn't sexy as fuck. Everyone that came by today commented on its design...then followed up how much it cost lolz.

Get some gaming time tomorrow ill post how it does.

I tried to go back(didn't have my card on me), but that shit was gone :^(

 

[Smokey]

Some brief impressions of Samsung D8000 LED

Picture is very nice IMO out of the box. There are a billion pic adjustments, and frankly it's overwhelming. Watched Shrek 3D just to see how PQ was and I didn't notice any crosstalk. Popped in the Mortal Kombat demo and tried 3D on that and again didn't notice any cross talk or ghosting. I have my PS3 hooked up to standard HDMI port, and not running game mode btw. I know what gaming lag feels like from previous experience with a friends samsung panel but I honestly didn't notice it while playing MK.

Need to try some more games out but so far...I'm impressed. Even MK's subtle 3D effect looked good, so I'm anxious to try some more games. Will definitely try FPS later on today. That's where I noticed the most lag on my friends Samsung panel a few years ago.