people saying the lag is behind the 2012 st50, so i went with the 50
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Should I stick with LCD or go Plasma?
- Thread starter PJX
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people saying the lag is behind the 2012 st50, so i went with the 50
All other numbers the same...just add st50 at the end (looking up at retailers now)?
scrapplejoe
Banned
panasonic plasma user here..
my 3rd one..
All three still work (dating back to 2007).
Love em
my 3rd one..
All three still work (dating back to 2007).
Love em
Lol
FrankNitty
Member
After 100 hours I use it as I normally any other display. The point for the slides for me is so that teh pixels age evenly without the issue of getting possible IR. You are most prone to get it within the first few hundred hours. After which you can still get it but the phosphors will have already started drifting and matured some and stabilized so it shouldn't be as bad.
I havent really heavily watched anything yet and havent had the desire to game recently, but when I do I'll play for as long as I can. I don't worry about IR. If I did see it afterwards I would just run the screenswipe or the pixel flipper on the WOW disc
Plus the difference with running slides to watching content to prep the panel is if you are watching content turn down the contrast some. When running slides you don't have to worry about that you can have it as high as you want.
I know some don't feel the slides are necessary and they may not be but for the purpose of aging a panel quickly for calibration prep it's handy. Hell most plasma's have a aging mode in the service menu for this purpose.
I have had mine for almost a month now and it is ridiculous how much better it is compared to my old LCD. The TV can look a tad washed out during the daytime, but when it comes to night time it really comes to life - those blacks.
I have started to introduce games that have a lot of static images - Battlefields, Halo 4 - and the TV seems to be taking them its stride now, although I haven't marathons them yet, just 1-2 hours of gaming.
FrankNitty
Member
I checked out the 8500 it was a toss up between the ZT and that for me.
It's nice. Really nice. I personally though have concerns about SAmsung products though mainly because of issues that were in the D series. But was seriously over looking it for that display.
It gets bright, very bright. Like an LED. The AR filter on it is almost as good as the ZT, and the AR filter on it is better than the VT's. Main difference I saw between the ZT and 8500 filter is that the ZT's not only contains the light and keeps it from disbursing around the screen it dims it as well while the 8500 just contains it though not as much as the ZT. But with the added brightness it could offset that.
Also the 8500 seems to have some type of always on edge enhancement so everything looks sharper. It's a nice display. I am still thinking about getting one for the office maybe a 51 inch but that's a tough call cause I would have to get rid of my 500M which I don't want to do lol
Sanctuary
Member
You really don't want to play fighting games on a plasma, unless you get really lucky or missing 1-2 frames doesn't bother you.
The main reason not to play them though is because of "temporary" image retention. I quoted temporary, because it can last up to six months or more before the hud/health bars can finally disappear fully, especially if you frequently play the same game. People claim that plasmas don't have an image retention or burn in problem anymore, but that's just not true. It depends on how often you play the same game, and whether or not you take breaks in between your playing sessions to run whatever screen filling anti-burn in protection feature your set has. It also stands out the most (or almost exclusively) in dark scenes. Everything else looks fine usually.
That pretty much applies to most games that have long health bars and huds that stay on screen for a long time, although it seems to be the worst with fighting games.
I've brought this up before, and made it clear that I had a 2009 Panasonic. "Oh, that doesn't happen in the newer models!" is what some of the replies were. And yet my best friend just got a 2012 Samsung plasma and he has the exact same issues that I have. Plasma sets are much better looking in general for the cost, and they typically have a much better response time (not to be confused with input lag), but they do require a lot more babysitting.
The main reason not to play them though is because of "temporary" image retention. I quoted temporary, because it can last up to six months or more before the hud/health bars can finally disappear fully, especially if you frequently play the same game. People claim that plasmas don't have an image retention or burn in problem anymore, but that's just not true. It depends on how often you play the same game, and whether or not you take breaks in between your playing sessions to run whatever screen filling anti-burn in protection feature your set has. It also stands out the most (or almost exclusively) in dark scenes. Everything else looks fine usually.
That pretty much applies to most games that have long health bars and huds that stay on screen for a long time, although it seems to be the worst with fighting games.
I've brought this up before, and made it clear that I had a 2009 Panasonic. "Oh, that doesn't happen in the newer models!" is what some of the replies were. And yet my best friend just got a 2012 Samsung plasma and he has the exact same issues that I have. Plasma sets are much better looking in general for the cost, and they typically have a much better response time (not to be confused with input lag), but they do require a lot more babysitting.
FrankNitty
Member
technically anything will work you can just change the channel and it will work as well. I just use those things because I can leave them un attended without concern of other static images.
geez, the ferrari you never take out of the driveway syndrome
how often i game? i post on neogaf for christ sake, i game for 8+ hours straight whenever im not watching sports
thanks for the info though, i love me some info
gonna play games watch blu, sports etc, until my 30 day return mark gets close, then itll be time to choose
i have a roommate who's a huge (watches regular season blowouts) yankee fan, the last thing i want is the MSG logo on my precious, that would be the final straw, before switching to smth else
how often i game? i post on neogaf for christ sake, i game for 8+ hours straight whenever im not watching sports
thanks for the info though, i love me some info
gonna play games watch blu, sports etc, until my 30 day return mark gets close, then itll be time to choose
i have a roommate who's a huge (watches regular season blowouts) yankee fan, the last thing i want is the MSG logo on my precious, that would be the final straw, before switching to smth else
FrankNitty
Member
lol no i definitely use my displays. Watch movies, game, etc. I played Tomb Raider for about 4 hours straight. I only marathon game on the PC when playing MMO's not so much on console anymore.
My wife watches bravo almost all day everyday and no logos on any of my other plasma's
I honestly would say don't worry about it.
My wife watches bravo almost all day everyday and no logos on any of my other plasma's
I honestly would say don't worry about it.
Does breaking in the panel really prevent image retention? I believe someone asked this from the experts at the Value Electronics shootout earlier this month, and at least one them dismissed it as a myth.
Whatever the case might be, I think I'll try to prevent static images for the first 100 hours when I receive mine. Better safe than sorry.
I'll probably end up blasting through The Last Of Us the second I have the TV plugged in, though - here's hoping there's little to no HUD most of the time, much like Uncharted.
Whatever the case might be, I think I'll try to prevent static images for the first 100 hours when I receive mine. Better safe than sorry.
I'll probably end up blasting through The Last Of Us the second I have the TV plugged in, though - here's hoping there's little to no HUD most of the time, much like Uncharted.
I've switched to plasma last year and it's way better for gaming, there's close to no input lag. Apparently Panasonic Plasma TVs are great.
Sanctuary
Member
There's less input lag, but it's still there. Many of those that were "tested" to be under 1 frame (16.6ms) were actually much laggier than that. My 42'' has 20ms, but even so that's still rather good compared to your average LCD of the same screen size. For anything competetive (or PC specific) I just game on my 10ms Asus, but for everything else it's my plasma.
cool thanks, but about the Disney WOW pixel flipper dealy, does that work?
I know, I said close to no input lag but there still is some for sure. Though I don't feel it at all. When my Wii U's running on my plasma, the sound (at the menu and starting up games like Nintendoland) between the TV and the GamePad is harmonized. On my LCD, with Game Mode on, it's almost half a second late, really noticeable and annoying. The plasma was simply better right out of the box with no configuration or anything. It might have a frame or two of input lag, unsure how much, but it's probably one as I really can't tell there is other than by knowing there has to be some.
Playing NHL playoffs on my LCD instead of CRT was way tougher back when I didn't know input lag or Game Mode existed, I just didn't understand why I was doing so terrible, giving the puck away to someone on the forecheck when I clearly knew I had pressed pass way earlier and that it usually worked. My +/- became awful and I had atrocious K/Ds in FPS and all. With plasma I'm all good now, I still game on the LCD but anything competitive online that requires reflexes where others don't have the same disadvantage, I'll play much more rarely.
FrankNitty
Member
It doesn't prevent image retention. You can still get IR at any point in time. You are most likely to get it the first 100 hours or so because the phosphor is aging. The whole point of slides for me is to get a decent amount of hours on the panel for calibration.
Let's just say that I can read the gamertags of my buddies for several hours after I finish playing 4-6 hours of Borderlands 2.
IR happens on almost all plasmas but it goes away after minutes/hours/days. Just don't worry about it.
I have a Kuro and a VT50 soon to be replaced by a VT60.
kutthoat5150
Member
have slight IR also after playing at least 3-4 hours of witcher 2 on my st50, but yea it does go away. It's not too big of a concern for me anymore because when I'm taking a break playing games while watching tv or netflix is the time the IR starts to fade away and by the time I start playing games again its totally gone.
Haint
Member
It's a great TV, but poor for gaming. 73.6ms lag in Game Mode, up to 125ms without. The only 2 PDP's ideal for gaming this year IMO are the S60/S64 (34.1ms) and F5500 Samsung (37ms). If it's not a huge concern, you might be satisfied with the VT60 (47.9ms) or ZT60 (presumably the same) but the cumulative effect is getting dangerous of threshold crossing IMO.
wow, i guess i will learn to be as accepting, i mean, can you read the gamertags while watching tv? should i leave this on HBO or full screen programing while i'm at work for a week after 100 hr slides or anything?
just strange to have read on gaf for years now how great plasma is coupled with IR probs from too much gaming....the picture must be that good, or the IR not that bad
i hope im just being paranoid and it's not even that noticeable during reg viewing after 6 hours of borderlands...cause 6 hours of borderlands is like my fave thing right there
You can definitely notice it if you are looking for it.
Trust me I was the same like you back when I got my first plasma a couple years ago. I was always looking for IR after heavy gaming sessions but now I just don't give a shit. It is there and sometimes if there is a solid color in the content I see it while watching TV or other content but it goes away even if it takes hours so I don't bother with it anymore.
Trust me I was the same like you back when I got my first plasma a couple years ago. I was always looking for IR after heavy gaming sessions but now I just don't give a shit. It is there and sometimes if there is a solid color in the content I see it while watching TV or other content but it goes away even if it takes hours so I don't bother with it anymore.
Christberg
Member
I have a VT50 that takes a lot more abuse than average and it's 100% fine.
i need a small one, is 50$ samsung tax worth it? or should i just go with insigniawhateverthefuck brand.
last tv was a bravia
200$ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BCGRX9M/?tag=neogaf0e-20
vs
150$ http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Insigni...HDTV/7604047.p?id=1218855019040&skuId=7604047
cant get vizio because it only has 1 hdmi port
last tv was a bravia
200$ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BCGRX9M/?tag=neogaf0e-20
vs
150$ http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Insigni...HDTV/7604047.p?id=1218855019040&skuId=7604047
cant get vizio because it only has 1 hdmi port
RibbedHero
Member
Just ordered the 50inch GT60. Cannot wait.
i just got my 60st50 up and running, i will update once i tried some more content on it, but so far so good.
I'd really like to get precise measurement (displaylag.com or at least hdtv.co.uk) for the input lag of the new Sony WP9.
The numbers currently found in the reviews (such as trustedreviews) are 7-10ms of input lag. I don't trust them AT ALL (especially without a clear explanation of the method used), but that may means that Sony has produced a set that is circa 1-frame late. Which would be wonderful by today standards, where absolute best lags for 40"+ displays are in the low 20ms range*, and they are very, very few.
Since the set seems to be pretty good (although on the expensive side), that could be an interesting set for gamers. Especially with plasma going away.
* using the lower bar of the Bodnar lag tester, which means something like 5-7ms more than usual measurements. 21ms would still be 1-frame late (16ms) for usual methods. Fastests monitors exhibit a 18ms lag.
FrankNitty
Member
A few pics of the ZT60
I have a Panasonic 65VT30 and LOVE IT!
I got a slight burn in with my plasma on a fighting game life meter. Only noticeable on a pure white screen, which is rare.
Then noticed a pixel orbiter option in the settings and now I have no burn in issues.
The pixel orbiter option will shift your screen about an inch or two every so often to avoid burn in issues.
I got a slight burn in with my plasma on a fighting game life meter. Only noticeable on a pure white screen, which is rare.
Then noticed a pixel orbiter option in the settings and now I have no burn in issues.
The pixel orbiter option will shift your screen about an inch or two every so often to avoid burn in issues.
If it's not for gaming, then almost assuredly so.
Not exactly the right thread, but from the looks of it there where some nice gaffers who were able to offer suggestions.
I currently have a Toshiba 40" LCD 40G300U and am looking to upgrade to a newer TV.
I have about 600-800USD for an upgrade, but I would prefer lower if possible. Can anyone suggest a good TV for gaming that I should move too?
Honestly I have zero interest in 3D tech so I'm more then happy to get a larger/faster TV that lacks this feature.
I currently have a Toshiba 40" LCD 40G300U and am looking to upgrade to a newer TV.
I have about 600-800USD for an upgrade, but I would prefer lower if possible. Can anyone suggest a good TV for gaming that I should move too?
Honestly I have zero interest in 3D tech so I'm more then happy to get a larger/faster TV that lacks this feature.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I'll just tell ya that for $650, the 50" S60 has been an amazing buy for me so far.
I'm seriously considering the S60 (55") to replace my 6 year old Samsung plasma. I don't need 3D and from the I've seen the picture quality on the S60 is very good (not as good as the GT/VT/ZT60 though obviously) without the lag issues present in the ST60. The only "issue" is only having two HDMI inputs, but I need a new receiver as well so I'll take care of the inputs with the receiver.
mr stroke
Member
Haint
Member
It seems like Sony have really stepped up their input lag game. The W802 returns an astounding 16.9ms on the Bodnar lag tester, which could very well make it the fastest fixed pixel "television" ever. There have only been a handful of TV's return 1 frame of lag on the old CRT cloned timer method, but it's impossible to say what they'd return on the Bodnar (which is generally accepted to be more accurate and almost always higher than the old cloning method). I wonder if Carmack really made some in roads complaining about the HMZ-T1 in his VR experiments, or if they anticipate a lot of 60fps PS4 games. Either way, very nice to see, but I can't downgrade to an LCD. Think I'll probably pick up an S60 for 2D content and the Benq W1070 for DLP's patented reference quality 3D.
2013 Panasonic Plasma ST60 vs Panasonic LED LCD ET60
There's something gone wrong here.
The ST60 plasma has a calibrated black level of 0.007 cd/m2, the ET60 has a calibrated black level of 0.0268 cd/m2. The ST60 is noticeably blacker. Unless you've mixed the two up and the plasma is the one on the right?
Here are the reviews of each.
Panasonic TX-P42ST60 3D Plasma TV Review
Panasonic TX-L42E6B LED Smart TV Review
The plasma scores higher, naturally.
Damn, the only one I could find is up to 730.00. Still seems like a good TV, but I'm trying hard to stay below 700.00
Gaylord Sweetwood
Member
Took the plunge on that 42" S60 for $400 a month or so ago and definitely do not regret it. Haven't played any games on it yet, just been watching Netflix and Hulu+.
Can I get a recommendation? Looking for something 32" (though I'll go up to 40"), 1080p, with component in and low latency (highest priority). Don't care about whether it's LCD/plasma/whatever.
Right now I'm looking at:
Samsung UN32EH5300 (really like everything about this, but I hear Samsungs have bad scalers)
Panasonic VIERA TC-L32X5 (why is the 32" 720p when the 24" is 1080p!?)
LG 32LK450 (heard some things about the picture quality)
I mainly intend to use it with my PS3/360 and probably future PS4, as well as occasional PS2 and Wii use through component. I realize that no non-CRT will be able to do an incredible job of upscaling the latter two; there are external solutions for that. But from what I hear even 720p stuff might be a problem with the Samsung. Of course, if there's something even better than these three I'm all ears.
Right now I'm looking at:
Samsung UN32EH5300 (really like everything about this, but I hear Samsungs have bad scalers)
Panasonic VIERA TC-L32X5 (why is the 32" 720p when the 24" is 1080p!?)
LG 32LK450 (heard some things about the picture quality)
I mainly intend to use it with my PS3/360 and probably future PS4, as well as occasional PS2 and Wii use through component. I realize that no non-CRT will be able to do an incredible job of upscaling the latter two; there are external solutions for that. But from what I hear even 720p stuff might be a problem with the Samsung. Of course, if there's something even better than these three I'm all ears.
StopMakingSense
Member
Considering the way he was replying, I think he wasn't listing them respective to the photo.
mr stroke
Member
Ops sorry labeled them wrong
The light one(on left)is the Panasonic LED LCDThe dark one(on the right) is the Panasonic ST60 Plasma
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