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[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

What?

Other M isn't more of a horror direction at all. It has regenerating health and ammo and badass QTE finishers for Christ's sake. And it wouldn't know what atmosphere is if Super Metroid bit it in the ass.

Is there anything in Other M that comes as close to horror as exploring Frigate Orpheon, the first encounter with the Chozo Ghosts on route to the Sun Chamber, or the moment when the lights turn off in Research Lab Hydra?

I'm not saying that they did horror in Other M well, I'm just saying I got the impression that they wanted it to have a strong horror vibe and then botched it, which led to a lot of the story complaints (like Samus breaking down when confronted with a boss she had fought before).

 

[Garlador]

I'm not saying that they did horror in Other M well, I'm just saying I got the impression that they wanted it to have a strong horror vibe and then botched it, which led to a lot of the story complaints (like Samus breaking down when confronted with a boss she had fought before).

I get where you're coming from, but the Ridley stuff didn't feel like a "horror" vibe at all. Not with that exciting music and the Ridley action attached to it, or Anthony there talking smack the whole time.

The other Metroid games have just as much a horror vibe in many areas. Other M wasn't anything special in that regard.

I mean, Super Metroid's title screen was creepy as hell and had dead bodies that weren't even cold yet scattered across the floor.

 

[Boney]

I'm not saying that they did horror in Other M well, I'm just saying I got the impression that they wanted it to have a strong horror vibe and then botched it, which led to a lot of the story complaints (like Samus breaking down when confronted with a boss she had fought before).

It's a mix of mystery and horror scenario wise yeah. People are getting murdered left and right by a mole. It didn't translate the feeling of dread to the player very well though, because the idea of Samus getting murdered by somebody is laughable.

The game was supposed to feature heavy emphasis on detective works it seems, but ultimately got scrapped.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I don't mind frankly. As long as they understand the main Metroid recipe.

If they could keep Metal Gear still feel like a Metal Gear game, then they could potentially keep Metroid alive. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have Ninty talk to them about Metroid and keep Sakamoto as far away as possible.

 

[krizalidzero]

According to Nintendo's own numbers as of March 2015, it didn't.

Chartz is not a valid source.

It is for older games such as this. (they recalibrate their listings every so often, unlike a forum thread)

 

[Sterok]

Federation Force strikes me as an attempt to move it more in line with where they're comfortable working. It even picks up on the ever popular trend of mission based, four player co-op handhelds games in Japan.

I'm not really convinced it will work though. It's not the region the series works in and it doesn't strike me as something that's going to sell even 100K in the domestic market.

One of my first thoughts when Federation Force was revealed (and to a lesser extent Triforce Heroes, though that's probably more of a Majora-eque situation) was "oh, this is FPS Monster Hunter". Which I... don't know how to react. Trying to boost Metroid's popularity via the Mon Hun crowd isn't necessarily a bad idea, but between Japan's lack of care for Metroid and shooters and the west's lesser amount of local multiplayer it's hard to see how this would really appeal to people on either side.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

It is for older games such as this. (they recalibrate their listings every so often, unlike a forum thread)

No, it really isn't since you don't know if they're recalibrating their listings and you don't know what they're basing those listings on. You might as well just guess a number.

 

[Mael]

From what I've played of Other M (only a few hours), it felt like they were really trying to push it more heavily in a horror direction than fans were used to. Which makes sense from a historic perspective (Metroid was originally heavily inspired by Alien) but didn't really mesh with the awesome bounty hunter persona that fans had bestowed upon Samus by that point (and that was played up in the Prime sub-series).

If only! I would have liked to get this game.
If Other M is horror, then clearly people at team ninja/Nintendo know nothing about horror.

It is for older games such as this. (they recalibrate their listings every so often, unlike a forum thread)

No, it isn't.
You're a junior, all bans are permanent.
Mods don't take pushing shit number from chartz lightly.
Ask a mod why through PM, if he's in a good mood he'll explain in details.

For Other M, it didn't come anywhere close to 1M that's absolutely sure.
It's likely the least selling Metroid game to date considering how shy PR was for the game after its release until now.

Though the Souls series are a success indeed, they're also multiplatform games with a good chunk of sales coming from PC.

So, is kinda weird seeing the comparisons in sales to Prime, which each iteration has been exclusive to a platform, until Trilogy. And still Trilogy bombed all the way to the bargain bins, so is not as if the bad taste Other M left in some (not me, I really liked it even when I can recognize its flaws) had an effect. Prime was already seeing a decline in sales, so Other M not meeting sales expectations had to do more with people not caring for it rather than the quality or ads.

Utter BS.
Metroid Prime Trilogy was a limited release, it was manufactured for a set time with a set number for shipment with a tiny marketing campaign in a way to provide MP1 and MP2 to Wii without releasing the NPC Jpn version of the game.
It probably never went to the bargain bin considering the game's used value was through the roof before the WiiU eshop release.
It's like claiming that Nintendo is wary of 2D Mario after SMAS on Wii didn't ship 5Million copies when it was an equally limited release.

 

[Garlador]

It is for older games such as this. (they recalibrate their listings every so often, unlike a forum thread)

Yeah, sorry, but Chartz isn't accurate and they don't always recalibrate. We have Nintendo's official sales info from earlier this year. Chartz just excels at educated guesswork and is often wildly off the mark. GAF doesn't allow them as a source.

It really is remarkable just how much Other M scared them though. After it was released, has Nintendo said ONE THING about the game in any way, shape, or form, other than they weren't happy with its sales? Has Sakamoto answered any criticisms? It's like they went total radio silent (and this happened during Metroid's 25th Anniversary period, if I'm not mistaken).

Other M wasn't a cheap game either. It was easily the most expensive Metroid game they probably ever made, with all the voice work, CG cutscenes, mo-cap work, and nearly three different companies having a hand in it... We don't know its budget, but I wouldn't be shocked if they LOST money on the game. Maybe a lot of it.

It's probably why Federation Force looks like it has the budget of a ham sandwich. They're scared to invest that much again.

I'd really love to know the details, even background info on how Other M was made or what they feel went wrong, but Nintendo isn't talking anytime soon.

Though I'm morbidly curious if they're going to stick with "kicking the Prime games out of official canon", which was their plan with Other M.

 

[DoktorEvil]

It is for older games such as this. (they recalibrate their listings every so often, unlike a forum thread)

Please. V G Charts has been proven time and time again to be a shit source.

There's a reason why Gaf uses NPD and Media Create: They're reliable.

Educate yourself.

 

[Raitaro]

I think they could definitely make a new Metroid that caters to a similar audience as the Souls games. Heck Super Metroid and the Prime games are kind of precursors to them already in terms of their heavy atmosphere, dangerous world and environmental storytelling. Personally, I'd be down for such a difficult Soulsian Metroid game in a heartbeat!

That said, I don't think they will do this any time soon however, especially after announcing Federation Forces. My gut feeling is that Nintendo really wants to focus on making games that could potentially be played by large audiences, Metroid included. Sure, they take risks here and there, like with Splatoon or Pikmin, but even those still feel like they should be able to appeal to a broad group of players primarily and not just the core group of mega core fans that they eventually get. In that sense, the very DNA of Metroid seems to be at odds with their overal modern design philosophy (hence the far more "casual" focused Other M and said upcoming 3DS game).

Then again, if any of their existing IP's seems ripe for a reboot to refind its audience, it's Metroid since difficult gameplay and oppresiveness are indeed already in its DNA. Maybe the success of the Souls games will make Nintendo go this route someday afterall? Then again, if the 3DS game fails again, they might sooner shelve the IP completely I fear.

 

[Mael]

The only post release info we have is IIRC :
- Reggie saying Nintendo didn't understand why Other M bombed so spectacularly
- Team Ninja Hayashi(I think) putting all the blame of Other M's story on Sakamoto
- Sakamoto saying that he preferred to do something else with his time

 

[krizalidzero]

If only! I would have liked to get this game.
If Other M is horror, then clearly people at team ninja/Nintendo know nothing about horror.



No, it isn't.
You're a junior, all bans are permanent.
Mods don't take pushing shit number from chartz lightly.
Ask a mod why through PM, if he's in a good mood he'll explain in details.

For Other M, it didn't come anywhere close to 1M that's absolutely sure.
It's likely the least selling Metroid game to date considering how shy PR was for the game after its release until now.

Lol.
First, I said it was "supposed to have sold"
Second, it's confirmed that it sold at least 850k, which is close to a mill.

Cheers.

I also think if the game was darker and horror oriented it would sell better.

 

[Toxi]

Second, it's confirmed that it sold at least 850k, which is close to a mill.

Source?

 

[Mael]

Lol.
First, I said it was "supposed to have sold"
Second, it's confirmed that it sold at least 850k, which is close to a mill.

Cheers.

Where did you get that info?
It's not in Nintendo's listing

Metroid: Other M was the third best-selling video game in Japan during its week of release with 45,398 copies sold, ranking it behind Wii Party and Monster Hunter Diary: Poka Poka Airu Village.[97] An additional 11,239 copies were sold the following week.[98] It was also the ninth best-selling game in North America during September 2010,[99] with 173,000 copies sold.[100] In the United Kingdom, the game failed to make the top 10 and placed 12th in its first week.[101] In November 2010, Fils-Aime stated that the game is "getting close to half a million" copies sold in the United States, far below Nintendo's expectations.[102][note 2]

Wiki have it at more than 600k but that's all the verified info we have.
Personally I'd wager it's still selling its initial shipment considering how quickly and massively it went into the bargain bin.
It didn't get a Player choice or whatever they call it now rerelease on Wii so I highly doubt it sold anywhere close to an acceptable number for Nintendo.

I also think if the game was darker and horror oriented it would sell better.

Better than the saturday cartoon vibe Other M was trying to evoke...

 

[Pancakes R Us]

If there is ONE Nintendo IP that can singlehandedly bring all the non nintendo male gamers to their system, if done right, it's this one. Metroid should be their AAA epic action title, period. it can be fps only or third person to have more platforming aspect, both work.

No, I completely disagree. To bring those non Nintendo games to the platform, Metroid would have to stop being what it is. Metroid is an amazing series with complex difficulty and backtracking, isolation etc. that doesn't lend itself well to this market you speak of. I'd rather Nintendo doesn't make this sacrifice. Screw this market, they're not interested in Nintendo. They're completely happy on PS and Xbox. Leave them be.

 

[Brickhunt]

What a moronic thing to say. They gave a huge spotlight to red steel because it was both the biggest third party collaboration they had it place, was targeting a more core audience and the idea of guns and swords really helped sell the Wii concept to all kinda of people. Prime 2 sold very little, probably because it hit at the tail end of the GC life. So of course the marketing budget for the third installment wasn't gonna be as big as with other titles like Mario. They payed it conservatively, having ads two weeks before is perfectly fine, they also tried the Metroid channel, but Wii connectivity was atrocious so it ended up being a huge blunder. They could've worked harder on PR but still, it's just a RoI on their part.

I agree they probably didn't want to sabotage it, but I do think they were very incompetent and things could had been handled way better had they used a bit of common sense. I can excuse them for E3 2006, they just choose to bet on Red Steel rather than their own product. Can’t think of Sony or Microsoft ever doing that over their own products, but the concept of shooting with swordplay sure was appealing. Red Seel, despite being rushed and having bad reviews, benefited a lot from the E3 spotlight, not to mention the thirst of FPS players to try the Wiimote, to the point it became a million seller. I do think that, overall, RS damaged the Wii for core games, specially FPS gamers, and things would had been better if RS and MP3 exchanged places, both at E3 2006 and release dates.

But ignoring 2006, the way MP3 was handled in 2007 was still shameful. I think anyone with common sense could see that the Metroid Channel wasn’t the ideal way to advertise it, because it targeted current Wii users, at a time it was composed of casual players. Everything related to marketing was a shame, from the commercials to a lackluster trailer a few days from the release (Fuck, I just realized MP3 never had a trailer showed at both E3’s, unlike other flagship titles).

I can understand being conservative of the marketing budget because of MP2’s sales, but even with a low budget the way MP3 was handled was plain incompetence.

 

[Mael]

No, I completely disagree. To bring those non Nintendo games to the platform, Metroid would have to stop being what it is. Metroid is an amazing series with complex difficulty and backtracking, isolation etc. that doesn't lend itself well to this market you speak of. I'd rather Nintendo doesn't make this sacrifice. Screw this market, they're not interested in Nintendo. They're completely happy on PS and Xbox. Leave them be.

It should be both really.
Although I'd say they don't really need Metroid to be their AAA shooter event game, I mean they have Splatoon for that now.
Drop Samus for a bit, go with random grunts and have them explore a planet or something and have online co op/battle with different factions and everything (an invasion mode would actually work great this way).
Keep the dark, threatening vibe, the progression (go nuts with new powerups since Samus is no longer the protag) and you're pretty much golden.
that concept could lend itself well to AAA tentpole game the competition makes.

 

[Ridley327]

I agree they probably didn't want to sabotage it, but I do think they were very incompetent and things could had been handled way better had they used a bit of common sense. I can excuse them for E3 2006, they just choose to bet on Red Steel rather than their own product. Can’t think of Sony or Microsoft ever doing that over their own products, but the concept of shooting with swordplay sure was appealing. Red Seel, despite being rushed and having bad reviews, benefited a lot from the E3 spotlight, not to mention the thirst of FPS players to try the Wiimote, to the point it became a million seller. I do think that, overall, RS damaged the Wii for core games, specially FPS gamers, and things would had been better if RS and MP3 exchanged places, both at E3 2006 and release dates.

But ignoring 2006, the way MP3 was handled in 2007 was still shameful. I think anyone with common sense could see that the Metroid Channel wasn’t the ideal way to advertise it, because it targeted current Wii users, at a time it was composed of casual players. Everything related to marketing was a shame, from the commercials to a lackluster trailer a few days from the release (Fuck, I just realized MP3 never had a trailer showed at both E3’s, unlike other flagship titles).

I can understand being conservative of the marketing budget because of MP2’s sales, but even with a low budget the way MP3 was handled was plain incompetence.

Isn't this exactly what Sony has done for this holiday season? They're betting huge on their COD and Battlefront deals, and their only first party release of any note is a remastered collection of games.

 

[Brickhunt]

Isn't this exactly what Sony has done for this holiday season? They're betting huge on their COD and Battlefront deals, and their only first party release of any note is a remastered collection of games.

Yeah, but the main difference is that at that Sony is no longer at the pre-launch phase and has already managed to establish the PS4 as market leader. They don’t really need to push their first-party games anymore and I honestly can’t think of any announced product that wasn’t addressed this year at E3. Correct me if I’m mistaken.

In Nintendo’s case, it was five months up to the Wii launch and Nintendo had two "similar" products to spotlight at their E3: One of their own (MP3) or one of their partners (RS). They choose RS and only showed a few seconds of MP3 gameplay footage mixed with other games. They choose a partner’s product over their own. It didn't made the Wii a fail, but I do think this particular decision had long term consequences that affected the Wii U.

An almost equivalent comparison, in my opinion, would be if Microsoft spotlighted Call of Duty 3 at their E3 stage and showed only a few seconds of Halo 3 footage. Even today, where COD is a monster franchise by itself, I could never see Microsoft giving it priority over their Halo at their E3 stage. (Sure, at that time Halo was more equivalent of Mario or Zelda for Microsoft, but I do like to think I made my point)

 

[Celine]

In November 2010, Fils-Aime stated that the game is "getting close to half a million" copies sold in the United States

Ah ah, that's quite a PR spin going by the NPD figure I've seen.

 

[KingBroly]

Ah ah, that's quite a PR spin going by the NPD figure I've seen.

Other M never got past the initial 500k shipment in NA. The copies of Other M you see on shelves now are from that first shipment.


The "horror" stuff in Other M was pretty bad. Everything was super obvious and dull. 'oh, this cute little rabbit thing isn't evil at all despite a creepy face and menacing stare.' What a joke. The alpha/PS1 texture work didn't help matters either.

 

[Overside]

I'm not saying that they did horror in Other M well, I'm just saying I got the impression that they wanted it to have a strong horror vibe and then botched it, which led to a lot of the story complaints (like Samus breaking down when confronted with a boss she had fought before).

This is correct, other m has by far the strongest and most overt horror themes, and allusions to the aliens inspiration in the series.

That doesnt mean it was done well (it wasnt) but it was absolutely there.

There were multiple sections where the player is forced into a painfully slow crawl, through an atmospheric often smokey/foggy environment, things like steam vents and shit falling are triggered fun house style for jump scares no one noticed.

Ridley's life cycle is also xenomorphic now, and the player 'hunts' him throughout the game finding his sheddings.

There is a traitor within the team.

The power loader is a boss.

Its dissapointing and seems to miss the point when compared to earlier entries.

 

[Garlador]

This is correct, other m has by far the strongest and most overt horror themes, and allusions to the aliens inspiration in the series.

That doesnt mean it was done well (it wasnt) but it was absolutely there.

There were multiple sections where the player is forced into a painfully slow crawl, through an atmospheric often smokey/foggy environment, things like steam vents and shit falling are triggered fun house style for jump scares no one noticed.

Ridley's life cycle is also xenomorphic now, and the player 'hunts' him throughout the game finding his sheddings.

There is a traitor within the team.

The power loader is a boss.

Its dissapointing and seems to miss the point when compared to earlier entries.

I don't necessarily know if those are "horror" themes so much as "Sakamoto watched Aliens again" themes.

Again, I'm sure they wanted some things to be chilling and tense, but it just wasn't executed well, not with ninja back-flipping, spin-kicking karate Samus and the color scheme of a Saturday morning cartoon show.

 

[Boney]

It's aims to be suspenseful. And I don't think it does a bad job at it. You gotta separate the annoying monologues to the atmosphere.

The "horror" stuff in Other M was pretty bad. Everything was super obvious and dull. 'oh, this cute little rabbit thing isn't evil at all despite a creepy face and menacing stare.' What a joke. The alpha/PS1 texture work didn't help matters either.

Um what? Of course you're supposed to identify it's evil right away, it stares at you like it's gonna murder you and minutes later you see him gnawing at the remains of the hive you killed. The twist is that it's an evolutionary form of Ridley, which you aren't expecting to show up, not that it wasn't an animal buddy like the super Metroid ones yeesh.

 

[Overside]

I don't necessarily know if those are "horror" themes so much as "Sakamoto watched Aliens again" themes.

Again, I'm sure they wanted some things to be chilling and tense, but it just wasn't executed well, not with ninja back-flipping, spin-kicking karate Samus and the color scheme of a Saturday morning cartoon show.

Just out of curiosity, you seem to, for some reason, be under the impression that we, saying these things were purposefully focused on in the game, is the same thing as saying these things wete executed well.

Could you show me the point in my response that gives you the impression that is what is being argued, because as far as I can tell, both myself and robert specifically state, that despite the heaviest (heavyiest handed...) focus seen in the series, it was not handled well.

Where is the disconnect here?

 

[Mael]

Ah ah, that's quite a PR spin going by the NPD figure I've seen.

Other M never got past the initial 500k shipment in NA. The copies of Other M you see on shelves now are from that first shipment.


The "horror" stuff in Other M was pretty bad. Everything was super obvious and dull. 'oh, this cute little rabbit thing isn't evil at all despite a creepy face and menacing stare.' What a joke. The alpha/PS1 texture work didn't help matters either.

I fully expect the game to have shipped close to 800 000 copies WW.
Of these 800 000, most are in garbage bin all over the world at shit price.
I mean 500k is probably the initial shipment in the US that is still being sold as overstocked bombs going for pennies.
It's safe to estimate that they probably expected between 50k and 100k for Japan.
and the rest for PAL doesn't seem unreasonable.
How much of the initial shipment have actually been sold is a mystery for people outside of NPD/Nintendo, etc.
Going by the huge number of unsold/used copies you can find in B&M shops in the EU (anecdotal evidence from my limited trips abroad and France, don't quote me on this, it's however ridiculously available in France to this day!) and even the US, I'd wager not a whole lot.

This is correct, other m has by far the strongest and most overt horror themes, and allusions to the aliens inspiration in the series.

That doesnt mean it was done well (it wasnt) but it was absolutely there.

There were multiple sections where the player is forced into a painfully slow crawl, through an atmospheric often smokey/foggy environment, things like steam vents and shit falling are triggered fun house style for jump scares no one noticed.

Ridley's life cycle is also xenomorphic now, and the player 'hunts' him throughout the game finding his sheddings.

There is a traitor within the team.

The power loader is a boss.

Its dissapointing and seems to miss the point when compared to earlier entries.

That's surface level references to horror movies.
It's ripping tropes out of popular examples and calling it a day.
Since we're talking Souls series, take Bloodborne and its clear Lovecraftian source.
They didn't just take a space tentacle monster and called it a day.
I'm actually reading the integral sold by B&N and From took painstaking care in trying to evoke the feel and horror of the text Lovecraft tried to make.
I'm in no way a specialist but seriously they did their homework well that's for sure.
Other M's type of horror is really on the level of a parody episode of a cartoon show making a horror episode trying to cram as many references as they can.
Horror is not that and the way they did shows they didn't really care either.

 

[DoktorEvil]

This is correct, other m has by far the strongest and most overt horror themes, and allusions to the aliens inspiration in the series.

That doesnt mean it was done well (it wasnt) but it was absolutely there.

There were multiple sections where the player is forced into a painfully slow crawl, through an atmospheric often smokey/foggy environment, things like steam vents and shit falling are triggered fun house style for jump scares no one noticed.

Ridley's life cycle is also xenomorphic now, and the player 'hunts' him throughout the game finding his sheddings.

There is a traitor within the team.

The power loader is a boss.

Its dissapointing and seems to miss the point when compared to earlier entries.

Metroid now has to compete with this:

Arguably one of the better Alien games too.

He needs to go back to what fans liked about Metroid and that was the exploration, the backtracking, the incremental ability/weapon increases, and the Pirates/Ridley/Metroids.

He tried too much to connect the dots and do it in a cinematic package.

 

[haimon]

OP, I have to ask...

Metroid fans are a small subset of Nintendo fans, which according to Wiiu sales are already a pretty small group.

I kid, but Metroid has never been a massive seller. Regardless of marketing, poor word of mouth and all the rest of the reasons, it is just a series with mediocre sales, and because of that Nintendo are not going to make a large investment in it.

 

[Garlador]

Just out of curiosity, you seem to, for some reason, be under the impression that we, saying these things were purposefully focused on in the game, is the same thing as saying these things wete executed well.

Could you show me the point in my response that gives you the impression that is what is being argued, because as far as I can tell, both myself and robert specifically state, that despite the heaviest (heavyiest handed...) focus seen in the series, it was not handled well.

Where is the disconnect here?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you.

I'm one of those people who thinks that "Aliens" is less a horror movie than "Alien" is, and more of an action movie with a few tense scenes here or there, but very few actual "horror" scenes (I think the best one in Aliens is when the two girls are trapped in the room with the chestburster.)

So me saying "It's less horror and more Aliens" means I think they were going for less "scary", like Alien, and more generic "tense and gripping", like a thriller, like Aliens.

Granted, it's ultimately semantics. "Horror" is a broad brush. "Fear" is another. Nothing in Other M ever got close to making me jump or feel the same level of unease as something like John Carpenter's Thing or a horror game like Dead Space, Silent Hill, or Resident Evil.

Even with previous Metroid games, I was more "afraid" of the SA-X in Fusion than I was of anything in Other M.

 

[Mael]

It's aims to be suspenseful. And I don't think it does a bad job at it. You gotta separate the annoying monologues to the atmosphere.

The atmosphere was shite too, thanks to the crappy tunes they thought were a good idea. As for everything in Other M, Fusion did it before and better.

Um what? Of course you're supposed to identify it's evil right away, it stares at you like it's gonna murder you and minutes later you see him gnawing at the remains of the hive you killed. The twist is that it's an evolutionary form of Ridley, which you aren't expecting to show up, not that it wasn't an animal buddy like the super Metroid ones yeesh.

Why the hell did Samus not vaporize the critter on sight I have no idea.
I can guarantee that's what would have happened if players were in control for that sequence.
Heck the scene usually goes that way :
-> critter arrives to feast on boss remains
-> you watch it feed
-> you vaporize it and go on your merry way.
You only interact by shooting things in games like that.
Heck it would have made for a cool easter egg instead of whatever they tried and fail to do.

 

[GenG3000]

Metroid always have had overtones of light horror for kids and teens. It's no Dead Space, but the tense atmosphere and jump scares have been more or less present throughout the main series.

These are kid rated games.

 

[Overside]

I fully expect the game to have shipped close to 800 000 copies WW.
Of these 800 000, most are in garbage bin all over the world at shit price.
I mean 500k is probably the initial shipment in the US that is still being sold as overstocked bombs going for pennies.
It's safe to estimate that they probably expected between 50k and 100k for Japan.
and the rest for PAL doesn't seem unreasonable.
How much of the initial shipment have actually been sold is a mystery for people outside of NPD/Nintendo, etc.
Going by the huge number of unsold/used copies you can find in B&M shops in the EU (anecdotal evidence from my limited trips abroad and France, don't quote me on this, it's however ridiculously available in France to this day!) and even the US, I'd wager not a whole lot.



That's surface level references to horror movies.
It's ripping tropes out of popular examples and calling it a day.
Since we're talking Souls series, take Bloodborne and its clear Lovecraftian source.
They didn't just take a space tentacle monster and called it a day.
I'm actually reading the integral sold by B&N and From took painstaking care in trying to evoke the feel and horror of the text Lovecraft tried to make.
I'm in no way a specialist but seriously they did their homework well that's for sure.
Other M's type of horror is really on the level of a parody episode of a cartoon show making a horror episode trying to cram as many references as they can.
Horror is not that and the way they did shows they didn't really care either.

And this applies to what was said HOW, exactly?

You guys seem to be arguing an imaginary opponent.

 

[Nirolak]

Metroid now has to compete with this:

Arguably one of the better Alien games too.

He needs to go back to what fans liked about Metroid and that was the exploration, the backtracking, the incremental ability/weapon increases, and the Pirates/Ridley/Metroids.

He tried too much to connect the dots and do it in a cinematic package.

That's an interesting title to bring up, since that's also now a dead series due to budget versus sales:

"Alien: Isolation 2 is not out of the question, because we're so proud of it and there's possibly more to be said. But do we really want to be spending very significant amounts of money, and getting close to break-even or just about in the black? That's not where Sega wants to be, when we have a brilliant portfolio of other games that do great business."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-09-30-sega-europe-were-definitely-on-the-right-track

Even the Alien level of spend is generally not enough. You really do need to hit those Batman/Tomb Raider highs on the AAA front these days.

That's why I suggested a ~$20 sidescrolling downloadable game if they even have any interest in going on, since I really can't see them spending $40+ million on development alone.

About 1 million boost:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Ah, I underestimated how much the first game sold. That said, I think back in that era, it was also a good fit for that mold.

 

[Mak]

So, is kinda weird seeing the comparisons in sales to Prime, which each iteration has been exclusive to a platform, until Trilogy. And still Trilogy bombed all the way to the bargain bins

Utter BS.
Metroid Prime Trilogy was a limited release, it was manufactured for a set time with a set number for shipment with a tiny marketing campaign in a way to provide MP1 and MP2 to Wii without releasing the NPC Jpn version of the game.
It probably never went to the bargain bin considering the game's used value was through the roof before the WiiU eshop release.

Metroid Prime Trilogy didn't reach the bargain bin, but it went on sale for $20-30 in the U.S. around the end of 2009, which is usually done to clear copies from the shelves of games that aren't moving. The demand and high prices came after it had been on shelves since August 2009 and after it sold out.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/960329-metroid-prime-trilogy/60828204
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/did-metroid-prime-trilogy-drop-to-29-99.187656635/

 

[DoktorEvil]

That's an interesting title to bring up, since that's also now a dead series due to budget versus sales:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-09-30-sega-europe-were-definitely-on-the-right-track

Even the Alien level of spend is generally not enough. You really do need to hit those Batman/Tomb Raider highs on the AAA front these days.

Really?

If so, what a fucking crime. Creative Assembly did the Alien franchise justice as opposed to that shithead running Gearbox Software.

That's why I suggested a ~$20 sidescrolling downloadable game if they even have any interest in going on, since I really can't see them spending $40+ million on development alone.

*Cue the angry Metroid fans upset at not receiving a big budget Metroid game.*

I believe giving Metroid to a company like Platinum Games may help save Metroid. They have a really solid idea of asset allocation. Hell, most of MGR:Revengence is reused assets and small sections.

If we're talking about 20 dollar downloadables, they have experience with Korra and now with Transformers.

 

[Jobbs]

I believe giving Metroid to a company like Platinum Games may help save Metroid. They have a really solid idea of asset allocation. Hell, most of MGR:Revengence is reused assets and small sections.

If we're talking about 20 dollar downloadables, they have experience with Korra and now with Transformers.

Platinum has a thing they do, and they generally do it well, but I can't say I've seen anything in any of their existing games that seems to be relevant to an ideal Metroid game. I'm not saying they couldn't do it, but I'd be nervous if I heard they were going to do it. Or, rather, I would be, if I wasn't already dead inside when it comes to Metroid.

 

[G-Fex]

I thought you were an ok guy OP, then you started this thing with metroid and Souls.


Now we're not ok.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Platinum has a thing they do, and they generally do it well, but I can't say I've seen anything in any of their existing games that seems to be relevant to an ideal Metroid game. I'm not saying they couldn't do it, but I'd be nervous if I heard they were going to do it. Or, rather, I would be, if I wasn't already dead inside when it comes to Metroid.

Vanquish but with Metroid elements, I suppose.

There could be worse decisions than From Soft or Platinum. They squeeze the hell out of their respective engines.

 

[MrCunningham]

Metroid now has to compete with this:

Personally, I don't think Metroid has to compete with anything. All Nintendo really has to do is to put together a competent team that can focus on making another good Metroid game in the series. All they really need is another Metroid Prime figuratively speaking. They tried messing with the formula with Other M and that didn't work out so well for them.

 

[Boney]

The atmosphere was shite too, thanks to the crappy tunes they thought were a good idea. As for everything in Other M, Fusion did it before and better.



Why the hell did Samus not vaporize the critter on sight I have no idea.
I can guarantee that's what would have happened if players were in control for that sequence.
Heck the scene usually goes that way :
-> critter arrives to feast on boss remains
-> you watch it feed
-> you vaporize it and go on your merry way.
You only interact by shooting things in games like that.
Heck it would have made for a cool easter egg instead of whatever they tried and fail to do.

Uh because she's not an animal that murders living things for the mere pleasure of it? Jesus Christ your perspective is so warped all you do is spout stupid shit. I won't be commenting any more on specifics on Other m because it's off topic.

But Sakamoto, Morisawa and Hosokawa following up Zero Mission on NX would do wonders. Nintendo would never see it as a downloadable title though, they're stubborn when it comes to retail releases.

 

[Garlador]

Uh because she's not an animal that murders living things for the mere pleasure of it? Jesus Christ your perspective is so warped all you do is spout stupid shit. I won't be commenting any more on specifics on Other m because it's off topic.

... Yeah she does.
Haven't you played the games where some harmless Zoomer is just minding its own business, going back and forth on its tiny platform, when Samus comes out of nowhere and just makes it explode?

Heck, Samus constantly kills innocent indigenous lifeforms by the dozens simply to get more health and energy out of them by absorbing the drops they provide, no matter how tiny, harmless, and insignificant they are to her mission.

... And then she'll blow the whole planet up for good measure.

 

[Rambler]

... Yeah she does.
Haven't you played the games where some harmless Zoomer is just minding its own business, going back and forth on its tiny platform, when Samus comes out of nowhere and just makes it explode?

Heck, Samus constantly kills innocent indigenous lifeforms by the dozens simply to get more health and energy out of them by absorbing the drops they provide, no matter how tiny, harmless, and insignificant they are to her mission.

... And then she'll blow the whole planet up for good measure.

The big irony with Other M is that if Samus WERE an emotionless killing machine, she would be a lot better at protecting people.

 

[Ogodei]

The main problem with Metroid development is simply a lack of capacity within Nintendo. Since it doesn't have a dedicated developer like the old EAD2 for Zelda (and even Retro was content once they finished the trilogy), then it went homeless again. Sakamoto's old SPD team (no idea what the alignments are now) is as much of a home as any for the main franchise, but they clearly lack the manpower to do full-scale games, hence the need for Team Ninja.

 

[Mak]

All of the enemies on Zebes in the original Metroid are out to attack Samus, besides maybe the Rippers which have no brain and float back and forth.
http://gamesdbase.com/media/system/nintendo_nes/manual/formated/metroid_-_1986_-_nintendo.pdf

In the original Metroid Samus destroys Mother Brain which sets off the self-destruct sequence for Tourian, and in Super Metroid destroying Mother Brain sets off a self-destruct sequence for the entire planet where she rescues the peaceful Ectecoons and Dachora at the end within the canon story of Metroid Fusion (where she does blow up SR388 to stop the X from spreading). At the end of Metroid II, she spares the baby Metroid.

 

[Garlador]

The big irony with Other M is that if Samus WERE an emotionless killing machine, she would be a lot better at protecting people.

Up to and including herself.
I keep forgetting that she's almost the CAUSE of a few ally deaths herself. Anthony only lives due to sheer dumb luck.

Going back to something like Dark Souls, it's interesting how, despite so many characters dying around you, they can either be directly at your own hands, or just a cruel twist of fate. But your character in Dark Souls is better at their job without the attachments. The moment you get attached to someone, that's the moment things start to go to hell.

One of my favorite scenes in Prime 3 is in the end, after being forced to kill some of her own allies, she takes a moment to grieve them, to remember them and honor them. It's subtle. No speeches. No spelling it out. There was no alternatives; she had to get the job done, regardless of her feelings. So she did. She saved the whole universe, in fact, but she acknowledges the people she was forced to put down. She didn't let her emotions overwhelm her; she did what she had to do, even when she displays her sadness at being forced to do it.

Other M went the total opposite direction. Her emotions compromised her mission COUNTLESS times. She wasn't able to keep it together or keep it in check. Over and over, she drops her guard, loses her focus, and lets her emotions spin out of control, to the danger of everyone else around her. The mission only succeeds because other people picked up her slack and did the job for her.

It's amazing to compare those two different portrayals and how they handled her emotional state. In neither instance was she "an emotionless killing machine", but in Prime she was able to keep her emotions in check and do her job, only allowing herself to grieve once the job was done.

 

[Overside]

Up to and including herself.
I keep forgetting that she's almost the CAUSE of a few ally deaths herself. Anthony only lives due to sheer dumb luck.

Going back to something like Dark Souls, it's interesting how, despite so many characters dying around you, they can either be directly at your own hands, or just a cruel twist of fate. But your character in Dark Souls is better at their job without the attachments. The moment you get attached to someone, that's the moment things start to go to hell.

One of my favorite scenes in Prime 3 is in the end, after being forced to kill some of her own allies, she takes a moment to grieve them, to remember them and honor them. It's subtle. No speeches. No spelling it out. There was no alternatives; she had to get the job done, regardless of her feelings. So she did. She saved the whole universe, in fact, but she acknowledges the people she was forced to put down. She didn't let her emotions overwhelm her; she did what she had to do, even when she displays her sadness at being forced to do it.

Other M went the total opposite direction. Her emotions compromised her mission COUNTLESS times. She wasn't able to keep it together or keep it in check. Over and over, she drops her guard, loses her focus, and lets her emotions spin out of control, to the danger of everyone else around her. The mission only succeeds because other people picked up her slack and did the job for her.

It's amazing to compare those two different portrayals and how they handled her emotional state. In neither instance was she "an emotionless killing machine", but in Prime she was able to keep her emotions in check and do her job, only allowing herself to grieve once the job was done.

With Other M, this is actually about the concept of Honne/Tatemae, or inner face/outer face, a gigantic japanese cliche, used in pretty much fucking everything.

While this is a common theme in every culture, the japanese went crazy with this kind of stuff, and of course, in their art, its an exaggeration of an already incredibly exaggerated concept.

And of course other m tackles it the same kind of subtle finesse it uses for everything, a fucking sledgehammer.

 

[Lynx_7]

Definitely better than Metroid but I think people are exaggerating a bit saying Metroid is and never was anywhere near that. Series worst is about on par with Metroid's average and its best is on par with Metroid's best.

I mean, only if you consider "Dark Souls" and "Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition" as two entirely different games for some reason, which really isn't the case. The latter is just a rerelease with the DLC included, so for all intents and purposes DS 1 has sold around 5.5 million copies, which is much more than any Metroid game has ever sold. And as things stand now, I don't see it reaching those numbers in the future either.

 

[Col.Asher]

... Yeah she does.
Haven't you played the games where some harmless Zoomer is just minding its own business, going back and forth on its tiny platform, when Samus comes out of nowhere and just makes it explode?

Heck, Samus constantly kills innocent indigenous lifeforms by the dozens simply to get more health and energy out of them by absorbing the drops they provide, no matter how tiny, harmless, and insignificant they are to her mission.

... And then she'll blow the whole planet up for good measure.

not to mention her scan visor would be able to read that the furby is a larval stage of Ridley through DNA. Yes her scanner can do that.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

That's why I suggested a ~$20 sidescrolling downloadable game if they even have any interest in going on, since I really can't see them spending $40+ million on development alone.

Yeah, that approach seems like a no-brainer. Give it a budget of around $5-6 million, sell it for $20 on the eShop, and you wouldn't need huge numbers to make a profit on the deal.