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Opinion Community Business Should Microsoft adjust their VR strategy?

kingpotato

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You're right, it's not currently a concern because most people would never think of VR as more than just a 15-20 minute experience.

However, I have read a lot about people who get VR sickness. When you dig deep, most of these people are playing on Quest or a 90hz headset. Yes, most people will get used to it, but it can ruin your experience and keep you from playing a major RPG in VR. Right now very few headsets hit 120hz and only the Index can (kinda) hit 144hz.

Moreover, VR has yet to become comfortable. At the moment, the PSVR is the most comfortable, but even that can get uncomfortable. The Index comes in 2nd, but it also begins to get uncomfortable for long play sessions.

Field of view is huge for the experience. Right now, even a Pimax feels like you're wearing SCUBA goggles. Once we get to human vision, you'll be INSIDE the holodeck, rather than peeking through a wall.

All these things are holding VR back from mainstream. Microsoft doesn't need to be first to the party. Just like Apple, they just need to do it best and allow others to build the market.

Again, I disagree. I've gotten to spend significant time with psvr, index and quest and I would say the quest is way more comfortable due to it being untethered.

Complaining about the scuba goggle effect is like saying someone can't get immersed in a book because they are physically looking at a page. It isn't a limiting factor of the individual is engaged.

I don't disagree that the tech needs to continue to improve, but it is viable already and a more convincing argument for me would be that more developers need to make games exclusively for VR so that the medium can move forward.
 

diffusionx

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I don't know why MS doesn't bring Windows MR to Xbox.

They don't need to make a big investment in it - let Oculus, Valve, and Sony do that - just make the tech available for those who want to use it. There's no reason why Windows MR headsets can't work on Xbox.
 
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j^aws

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Won’t happen. Streaming strategy, play on any hardware, is incompatible with VR.
I'm glad someone picked this up. Streaming and subscription services are at odds with ultra low latency and innovative controllers in videogames. These services require the lowest common denominator from the userbases controllers. Still, you can promote individual game downloads and sales for VR games alongside a traditional streaming of flat games.

Show the games, like a VR FPS that blows away a flat version with a gun still stuck on the players hips after 30 years of the genre. A Halo VR game done properly will blow minds.
 
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ChuckeRearmed

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Streaming and subscription services are at odds with ultra low latency and innovative controllers in videogames.
I believe eventually VR will be integrated with streaming and online games. Not today though, but in the future. Gimme that SAO.
 
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skneogaf

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Hp reverb G2 should definitely be made to be compatible with the series x.

It looks absolutely fantastic and has the. highest resolution
 

j^aws

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I believe eventually VR will be integrated with streaming and online games. Not today though, but in the future. Gimme that SAO.
Local processing will always have better latency than remote processing. VR needs to be as lag-free as possible to avoid motion sickness, for example.
 

MrFunSocks

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that's not the point

the point is that the 5% is misleading and that if on PS4 alone it sold, say, 5 million copies and about 1 million players played it on psvr, that's more like 20% of the player base for the game, not <5% of all PS4 players

most big games that got ports were very old games no one cares about anymore, RE7 was new and shiny and could be played in VR. I would very much want to see stats like this for SW Squadrons and Hitman 3...
The point is that <5% of the PS4 install base bought a PSVR. Of course people that bought it are clamouring for something to use it for. Doesn’t change the fact that the overwhelmingly large majority don’t want it and/or don’t care.
 
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Stitch

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Steam VR growth has slowed considerably. Most likely not enough games, covid, assinine costs, etc... Not sure if the gaming VR market is very profitable yet or will be in the near future. Send to have a lot ceiling and is very specialized.

Granted the below survey has it's limitations, it shouldn't be dismissed either.

Steam Hardware Survey is fucking bullshit. I tried 2 times and it never detected my (connected) Vive. And many other people reported the same problem. So the numbers don't mean shit.
 

Edgelord79

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Steam Hardware Survey is fucking bullshit. I tried 2 times and it never detected my (connected) Vive. And many other people reported the same problem. So the numbers don't mean shit.
Thanks for stating it's limitations. Because you specifically had these experiences, that must mean everyone experienced the same thing you did.
 

Stitch

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And others had the same Problem but sure keep believing in bullshit numbers.
 

Resenge

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Thanks for stating it's limitations. Because you specifically had these experiences, that must mean everyone experienced the same thing you did.
Completly agree with Stitch Stitch , Steam hardware survey is bullshit. I have had the exact same experience, it just has not registered any of my headsets. I think the last time it did was maybe 3 years ago when I was using a Vive.
 
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Edgelord79

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And others had the same Problem but sure keep believing in bullshit numbers.
I don't believe one survey specifically, that's precisely why I said to take it's limitations in stride. I don't think you really read anything at all.
 
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namekuseijin

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The point is that <5% of the PS4 install base bought a PSVR. Of course people that bought it are clamouring for something to use it for. Doesn’t change the fact that the overwhelmingly large majority don’t want it and/or don’t care.

why should they? None of today's trendy games are in VR. They have no clue what VR is - they think it's you looking cross-eyed at a mini 3D tv by your nose with an ancient gamepad in your hands. VR also doesn't look good in streaming: the camera is rough and the streamer face is covered so viewers don't know how to react without a react face...

this could change if the extra power of nextgen consoles and better tech in next headsets ensured most big games - at least the ones that make sense in VR, like FPS and racers - got a VR mode. Sony is silent on the subject and Phil denied it for now (though most studios they bought have experience in VR), but we have hints that within 2 years the immersive revolution will heat up.

Meanwhile, I'm playing less trendy, but still great select few games still coming to PS4 VR, like SW Squadrons or Hitman 3... and Quest 2 soon
 
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cyberheater

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Not buying another Xbox until it has VR support. Given that it’s not been mentioned by MS so far, the conclusion is that’s it’s not happening.
 

DarthBuzzer

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These are some top tier delusions you guys are experiencing. No one had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 32 bit era, the 3D era or whatever else. VR enthusiasts seem to think their hobby will become THE big thing by force ignoring that an idea doesn't take off without mainstream support. You could be right and it is the "future" of gaming but you guys are assuming this before the tech is actually there and it's actually remotely affordable to the average person. But even if it gets popular whose to say it's popularity won't just be the sort of flash in the pan something like motion controls were with the Wii? Despite that console's massive success motion controls are not now what gaming is all about. VR doesn't even have something comparable to that success to justify such a deluded belief.
I can't

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.games.video.sony-playstation.faqs/c/liXTW8FSgXc/m/4cfLAKp9O5YJ

Hear you

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sega.genesis/c/XZ-0Jf_kqDs/m/rCNWCdulv5oJ

Over

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.games.video.sony-playstation/c/DAXOKmyQIpo/m/LNmC2PMbgDIJ

Being right.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.games.final-fantasy/c/E6O1JaH2lb8/m/25y3bKvm434J

Gamers had to be dragged kicking and screaming into every major advancement. It's even happening with 4K and raytracing; plenty of people threw tantrums about those, and some still do.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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IMO that's a very false belief that the hardware is the sole issue holding VR from taking off, there could be 8K 240Hz wireless goggles and I bet nothing would change, if anything, it's the price that is the bigger issue for VR adoption, but then again, with 399$ PSVR hitting 5MLN units sold I think it's safe to say that's also not the limiting factor of how much dev focus there is for the VR titles. And still, the VR adoption can go only so far, most people didn't want to wear tiny, light 3D glasses, so they aren't going to wear an entire helmet, which on top of the inconvenience makes people vomit, there are just too many barriers, some unskippable, that make it really tough for VR to penetrate the broader market, and with just 2, 3, 5MLN userbase you can sell only so much software, so no wonde MS is not interested at all into it, especially given their new, GP-focused strategy.
You just brought up reasons why hardware is a big issue and why it would have a large effect. It's not the sole issue, but it's arguably the biggest issue.

Sickness and the form factor are two things you mention that will be drastically improved with newer hardware. VR can easily take off at $400 but it would need a certain level of hardware/software maturity that we don't have yet, but will get as the 2020s progresses. The reason why people didn't want to put 3D glasses on was because they were 3D glasses; not because they were 'glasses' - people just didn't find much value in them.
 
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I believe eventually VR will be integrated with streaming and online games. Not today though, but in the future. Gimme that SAO.
Online yes, streaming no. You can have a game where most of the processing is done locally and only some info sent in online. But full streaming VR is not possible unless we accidentally invent FTL travel.
The issue is that if VR takes off, it would directly run counter to Xcloud. There is no synergy with streaming.
 
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People upset on a forum means nothing, I'm talking about sales.
 

RoboFu

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Not a lot of people want to stand up and walk around to play a video game.
That’s the one thing no one ever talks about. people play games to relax.

That’s why I like racing and flying games in vr.
 
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Romulus

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Try ordering a Valve Index on Steam and we'll talk again in February 2021 when you finally get it.
VR rn is actually bottlenecked by production. Those headsets get sold so fast, production can't keep up with demand.

And the Quest 2 also. It was backordered 6 weeks out for the model without the upgraded storage.
 
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Romulus

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Steam VR growth has slowed considerably. Most likely not enough games, covid, assinine costs, etc... Not sure if the gaming VR market is very profitable yet or will be in the near future. Send to have a lot ceiling and is very specialized.

Granted the below survey has it's limitations, it shouldn't be dismissed either.




That drop in growth isn't anything new considering no big games in a few months and no new headsets come out until later this year. Im actually surprised its maintained stagnation versus a dive with all factors considered.
And the users fall every few months per year and rebounds every year in the end to show growth. The problem this year is the index has been sold out and standalone VR gaming is emerging more. PCVR is just a slice of the VR pie too, quest 2 is backordered 6 weeks.

VR is not going anywhere for many, many years. Even with sub 15 million headsets, developers are making money because of software attach rate. And that install base is growing, so long as they can continue to make enough headsets.

VR will continue to get AAA games you can't play anywhere else for years to come.
 
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pasterpl

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simple answer is no, vr is not in state to make it mainstream, not enough AAA content and these f*cking cables, this comes from previous owner of first gen oculus, vive, psvr and then vive pro, vr is still a gimmick when it comes to games
 

Romulus

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simple answer is no, vr is not in state to make it mainstream, not enough AAA content and these f*cking cables, this comes from previous owner of first gen oculus, vive, psvr and then vive pro, vr is still a gimmick when it comes to games

It's a gimmick, but yet you owned a Vive, Oculus, PSVR, and Vive Pro.

LOL
 
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pasterpl

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It's a gimmick, but yet you owned a Vive, Oculus, PSVR, and Vive Pro.

LOL

I am all in for trying new technology and concept of vr is great, and me purchasing multiple headset just shows that I really want this to work, but i am realistic, it is a gimmick.

btw. I will probably get new headset from hp later in the year
 

SF Kosmo

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Microsoft has been their own worst enemy on VR. To some extent their broad approach, working with third party venders on a standard with flexible specs, is a good one, but MS has completely sandbagged them with inferior tracking and controllers, and it's totally unnecessary.

Reverb G2 is finally showing some willingness to grow but they should have done that 3 years ago.
 

Romulus

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I am all in for trying new technology and concept of vr is great, and me purchasing multiple headset just shows that I really want this to work, but i am realistic, it is a gimmick.

btw. I will probably get new headset from hp later in the year

Best gimmick of all time confirmed I guess. Owns 4 headsets worth hundreds each.

It's just strange, theres not a massive difference in the headsets you own outside psvr but you're willing to keep upgrading.
 
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pasterpl

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Best gimmick of all time confirmed I guess. Owns 4 headsets worth hundreds each.

It's just strange, theres not a massive difference in the headsets you own outside psvr but you're willing to keep upgrading.

as I have stated I am a previous owner, I owned maximum 2 headsets at one time, currently I have 0, sold my vive pro last month, guess what, I still own the Xbox Kinect, I believe it is a gimmick as well, you can buy, own something and still think it is a gimmick
 
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Romulus

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as I have stated I am a previous owner, I owned maximum 2 headsets at one time, currently I have 0, sold my vive pro last month, guess what, I still own the Xbox Kinect, I believe it is a gimmick as well, you can buy, own something and still think it is a gimmick

I understand that, but to keep upgrading, and then claim to be getting another one. A gimmick is: a trick or device intended to attract attention. You're literally using it to game, not sure how its "tricking" you 5 times in a row.
 
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Romulus

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Like it or not, VR is dead... well, it was never alive.

Why should Microsoft (or others) even bother?

How is it dead, be specific? You do realize major companies are bringing more headsets than ever this year and more AAA games than ever before. Doesn't seem dead at all. Can't even find a Oculus Quest 2 without it being the upgraded model, it's sold out.
 
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I think Microsoft should stay the course they’re on. They can’t be trusted with things like VR and Motion control. Their best bet is to simply allow other headsets on their console. HP, Valve, HTC, and Oculus is good enough, there’s no need for proprietary headsets that aren’t versatile.
The oculus Quest 2 is honestly pretty great with its ability to be used with and without a pc.

Man, VR on PC is so much better. Better than anything on any console and since their games come to PC anyway, people can get it on PC.
No need to waste resources and money on that for Xbox.
Focus on Games and Power.
All people would need to do is.. but a capable PC...
 

fermcr

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How is it dead, be specific? You do realize major companies are bringing more headsets than ever this year and more AAA games than ever before. Doesn't seem dead at all. Can't even find a Oculus Quest 2 without it being the upgraded model, it's sold out.

VR is like 3D TV's, Kinect, PS Move, etc... it sounds and looks interesting and a some people will praise and use it, but most people won't even bother. It's just another gadget...
 

Romulus

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VR is like 3D TV's, Kinect, PS Move, etc... it sounds and looks interesting and a some people will praise and use it, but most people won't even bother. It's just another gadget...

But you're still avoiding the question. By this time in VR's life 3dtv was dead, VR just had it's best year. So, it's the opposite. why is it dying? You can't answer it. 4 years ago gaf people were saying this, and its only grown since 10x. In another 10 years itll be around.
 
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Zuzu

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I don't care.

As far as I'm concerned, the only real nextgen console coming out soon is the Oculus Quest 2, even with outdated graphics. You're just there in the game world, weapon in your hands, free from cables and ancient input devices.

both xsex and ps5 are retro consoles to watch tv while pushing buttons on a gamepad, exactly like in the 80s. And they're really mostly hyping very old games with more pixels anyway.

I somewhat feel the same way. I've preordered an Xbox Series X and I'm excited about it, but the next generation consoles feel like a further refinement of essentially the same gaming experiences we've had for a long time now. The SSD and the fast CPUs in the next gen consoles may open up some new gameplay mechanics that we've never seen before but I still think that most of the gaming experiences will be fairly similar to what we've already got. VR on the other hand opens up an entirely new way to play and in one sense it opens up a whole new dimension to gaming, analogous to the 2D to 3D revolution. In VR, you're not looking upon the game from a 3rd personal perspective but you're now in the game and experiencing it from a 1st personal perspective (or at least the illusion that you're doing so is much more convincing than in traditional gaming). The Oculus Quest 2 delivers that experience in the most convenient package yet, so it definitely feels like a more revolutionary jump in gaming compared to the traditional next gen consoles.
 
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namekuseijin

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Why should Microsoft (or others) even bother?

they bother enough to sell Hololens to the military, to bring Minecraft to psvr and to buy a lot of studios with plenty of experience in VR

Apple is coming too, you know? The 20s has barely began. A decade ago I couldn't give a crap to the whole smartphone gimmick, look at us now.

By the end of the 2020s you probably won't even remember physical TVs. I say physical because virtual screens of all kinds will be all around wearers of magical immersive glasses or whatever they call it by then... you may play classic games on them, like God of War Ragnarok...
 

namekuseijin

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When major publishers are stating they dodged the VR bullet, then no, the way forward is TV technology.

you mean that interview with the clueless Take2 CEO who said they didn't waste money with VR completely unaware that Borderlands and L.A. Noire got ported and some other minor games? Has someone pointed to him already that there's another Rockstar game coming?

Tv will be 100 years old by the end of the decade. Get a grip. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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LarknThe4th

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Still early doors for this market, they want Sony, Valve and Facebook to break the ground and then they will make a move

Normally it would seem foolish to do that in the tech sphere but given the fact that VR will never in its current form reach market saturation they can afford to sit the next few years out

The form factor and expense need to basically be reduced substantially and these reductions are gonna take long ass time to materialize
 
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DonJimbo

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They can expand and adjust their VR strategy but focus more on their first party and second party output and more third party collaborations they are now in a very good position to take percentages from Sony like the 360 days with their series X and the attractive series S and the monster Gamepass is
 

namekuseijin

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Nope I still agree with Phil.

Once VR can go fully wireless it’s time to look at it on console. Until then it’s not worth it unless you are on PC.



VR is fully wireless now and cheap and has good games, but...



didn't take decades, just 5 years
 
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Tygeezy

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I think you're better off doing what Oculus does with the many cameras on the headset to do tracking. You would need 4 cameras around your entire playspace because it wouldn't be able to track all your movements if you turned around. Some sort of wireless dongle would be great though to send an hevc encode wirelessly to the headset to decode would be awesome.

I'm really hoping that's what Sony does when they release their ps5 headset.
 
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Kerotan

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I think you're better off doing what Oculus does with the many cameras on the headset to do tracking. You would need 4 cameras around your entire playspace because it wouldn't be able to track all your movements if you turned around. Some sort of wireless dongle would be great though to send an hevc encode wirelessly to the headset to decode would be awesome.

I'm really hoping that's what Sony does when they release their ps5 headset.
Hopefully Autumn 2022 launch.
 

RoadHazard

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One of the console manufacturers should make a deal with Facebook to make the Quest 2 work wirelessly (a la Virtual Desktop) with their console. I guess Facebook wouldn't want that (they want people to buy Oculus Store games), but would be very neat to have one headset for everything.