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[SonicMegaDrive]

I remember back in the early 90's, I wished Nintendo would put out Mario games more regularly.

And now that I'm on the other side of the grass.....actually, the grass is pretty damn green over here. Bring on more Mario!

 

[hatchx]

OP, first off great name and display pic. What I your favourite Michael Bolton song btw? Lol

I'm not gonna lie, NSMB2 and NSMB2 both felt really stale. Other than that though Mario has been fine. 3D land was great and 3D world looks....err...I trust EAD and we know its something new (3D co op Mario). I also don't mind Mario in golf, tennis, RPGs, etc. They all have their own gameplay and Mario is such a likeable character. He practically transcends all genres and is his own genre all in the same.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

If anyone else owned this ip they would probably rinse it more than Nintendo does.

Well exactly. It never would have became as big as it is because they would have run it into the ground in the early years and moved onto something else when people got bored of it. In one way, Nintendo has put themselves in a much more precarious position than they would have if they'd pumped and dumped it like Ubisoft or Activision. At this point, the Mario brand has become such a huge part of Nintendo that if its popularity drops, they're going to be in trouble.

In the past they used big flagship Mario games to build up credibility so that shit like Mario Party wouldn't look so cynical, but I think in recent years the balance has gotten dangerously skewed in favour of titles that are sapping goodwill rather than building it.

 

[SuperSah]

Yes, focus on other games like Metroid, Star Fox, F-Zero etc.

The 2D Mario games have gone stale now. They're all samey and just feels like a drag to play.

Keep up the work on 3D Mario though.

 

[Striek]

Business-sense? No.

Consumer? Hell yes.

Should be less reliant on Mario as a whole. Blah blah the game would play the same with different characters, maybe, but really no because mechanically the same game would almost definitely play differently with new characters and a new world/story setting, without being hamstrung by decade old Mushroom Kingdom lore. There is no reason that Mario related characters have many lines of platformers, RPGs, multiple sports games, racers, party games etc. per system. It is a crutch. But the reality is these games do not sell entirely on their merits alone, the Mario+friends brand brings in the big buck. And its smart business by Nintendo to exploit that.

Sony or Microsoft would rightfully be eviscerated by all corners if they attempted the level of outrageous whoritude that Nintendo does with Mario. But they do not have a franchise as beloved as Mario to begin with, which makes the argument somewhat moot, because if they did they probably would whore it just as badly.

Edit: Comparisons to CoD are superficial, Nintendo averages 6+ titles per year with Mario featured, usually in the title.

 

[Frodo]

Ok, probably beaten to death, as I haven't read the entire thread, but:

They already released NSMB2 and SM3DL for the 3DS. On the WIi U front NSMBU came on launch and SM3DW is due to come out in December.

With their 1 entry for console rule (only fortunately broken by SMG2) I guess we WILL probably only see new Mario Bros. games on the next generation of Nintendo consoles, right?

So... Yes, maybe they should.

 

[SolarPowered]

No

Let them release all the 2D Mario they want. I wouldn't want F-Zero or Star Fox to get dragged down by the small install base the Wii U will inevitably have even by the end of it's life. Mario could underperform a bunch and Nintendo wouldn't pull the plug the way they have on some of their GC and N64 era IP.

Mario needs to take the hits for the lesser Nintendo IP because he can.

 

[Jac_Solar]

I just think they should offer more variety. I'm not interested in multiplayer car games or stuff like that like Mario Kart. What about a 2D sidescrolling Zelda RPG game? That'd be awesome.

 

[Sadist]

Nope.

Consumers could take a break though. It works for some.

 

[axisofweevils]

As long as there's only one 2D Mario a console, I don't see the problem. The timing was slightly off with NSMB 2 / NSMB U in my opinion - which is a shame, because NSMBU is the best 2D Mario in decades IMO (especially with the new Luigi DLC.)

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

If all they made was NSMB then hell yea, but since they coming out with dreamteam and mario golf and shit..Then hell no im sorry cause none of the games are the same.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Just for some perspective, Nintendo has 67 games announced or released for their current systems in NA on the eshop or at retail. Four of them are Mario platformers of either sort. 19 are Mario branded games, or star characters that are part of the Mario 'series' as a whole (even if Mario doesn't appear). That, in my opinion, is not excessive when you consider that Mario is the mascot character for the company.

Every Wii U/3DS game released or announced in NA:

1. Steel Diver
2. Pilot Wings Resort
3. Star Fox 64 3D
4. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D
5. Nintendogs + Cats
6. Pokemon Rumble Blast
   [*]Mario Kart 7
   [*]Super Mario 3D Land
7. Kid Icarus: Uprising
8. Spirit Camera: The Cursed Memoir
   [*]Mario Tennis Open
   [*]New Super Mario Bros. 2
9. Freakyforms Deluxe: Your Creations, Alive!
10. Art Academy: Lessons for Everyone
11. Crosswords Plus
12. Style Savvy: Trendsetters
13. Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask
    [*]Paper Mario Sticker Star
14. Fire Emblem Awakening
    [*]Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon
15. Brain Age: Concentration Training
16. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity
17. Lego City Undercover: The Chase Begins
    [*]Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D
18. Animal Crossing: New Leaf
    [*]Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
19. Pokémon X & Y
20. The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
    [*]Mario Party 3DS
21. Super Smash Bros. for 3DS
    [*]Mario Golf: World Tour
    [*]Yoshi's New Island
22. Bravely Default: Flying Fairy
23. Freakyforms: Your Creations, Alive!
24. Pushmo
25. Dillon's Rolling Western
26. Ketzal's Corridors
27. Sparkle Snapshots 3D
28. Crashmo
29. Fluidity: Spin Cycle
30. HarmoKnight
31. Kersploosh!
    [*]Mario and Donkey Kong: Minis on the Move
32. Dillon's Rolling Western: The Last Ranger
33. Picross e
34. Tokyo Crash Mobs
    [*]New Super Mario Bros. U
35. Nintendo Land
36. Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge
37. Sing Party
38. Lego City Undercover
    [*]Game & Wario
39. Pikmin 3
40. The Wonderful 101
41. Wii Fit U
42. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD
43. Wii Party U
    [*]Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games
    [*]Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
    [*]Super Mario 3D World
44. Bayonetta 2
45. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
    [*]Mario Kart 8
46. X
    [*]Yarn Yoshi
47. Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem
48. Pokemon Rumble U

Please correct me, if I'm wrong.

 

[gogogow]

Ok, probably beaten to death, as I haven't read the entire thread, but:

They already released NSMB2 and SM3DL for the 3DS. On the WIi U front NSMBU came on launch and SM3DW is due to come out in December.

With their 1 entry for console rule (only fortunately broken by SMG2) I guess we WILL probably only see new Mario Bros. games on the next generation of Nintendo consoles, right?

So... Yes, maybe they should.

Yeah, nobody needs to be "worried" Nintendo will release another one for the 3DS/Wii U. It's not like they already released 2 or 3 of them on each platform. They just released ONE on each device. I don't think they will make more in the near future. If they do and you don't like the NSMB series, the obvious thing to do is to do nothing, just don't buy it, vote with your wallet. When Nintendo sees their sales dropping they'll move on to something else.

 

[Oersted]

Outside Super Mario 3D World, there is not a single Mario Jumpnrun announced or rumoured. For both consoles.

I don´t get this discussion.

 

[TalesOfWin]

I remember back in the early 90's, I wished Nintendo would put out Mario games more regularly.

And now that I'm on the other side of the grass.....actually, the grass is pretty damn green over here. Bring on more Mario!

Nintendo in the 90s were perfect. Because every new Mario game they released was unique in terms of gameplay and artstyle.

cant say the same thing for the marios the last 10 years.

 

[Village]

Nintendo in the 90s were perfect. Because every new Mario game they released was unique in terms of gameplay and artstyle.

cant say the same thing for the marios the last 10 years.

Yeah you can.

 

[TalesOfWin]

I would disagree. By the end of this year, I can name 13 CoD games that will have released (CoD, CoD2, Big Red One, CoD3, CoD4:MW, WaW, MW2, MW: Mobilised, Black Ops, MW3, BO2, BO: Declassified, Ghosts), hence an average of 1.3 per year. I don't think it is fair to include the Zombie games as I understand the gameplay is fairly different, so they are excluded.

On the other hand, I can name 17 Mario platformers since 1985 (SMB, SMB2, SMB2:USA, SMB3, SML, SMW, SML2, SM64, SMS, NSMB, SMG, NSMBWii, SMG2, 3DLand, NSMB2, NSMBU, 3DWorld), which is one every 1.6 years. I'm excluding Yoshi's Island as I consider it a separate series, and similarly the Wario Land titles.

That's not to say I don't think Nintendo has made some major missteps handling the Mario platformer series; personally, I see releasing NSMB2 when they did as a bad move and should've been released late next year, 2 years after NSMBU. But imo to consider it in the same league as CoD is ludicrous.

eh, if you're including black ops series, then you might as well include Yoshi's Island series. It has Mario in it, and it was actually called Super Mario World 2 back in the day.

Yoshi's Island games should be counted imo.

yeah you can.

Let's hear your argument for that.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Yeah, their milking that cow too much it's going to reach burn out levels in sales eventually. They need to go back to the drawing board, ditch the "2.5D" Mario ideas, and do a straight hand drawn or pixel art Super Mario Bros. with a fresh story and fresher ideas.

3D Mario could use the same back to drawing board approach to new ideas and especially controls and camera. As well as a new look and atmosphere to go along with it. We've had essentially the same general 3D Mario atmosphere since 64. It needs to gameplay wise revolve around skilled play and a lot of options in move set without overburdening the control scheme. A RPG-type system implemented somewhow would be a welcome addition and good idea. Think the "Extra Mario mod" but within the scope of a AAA 3D Mario.

 

[Village]

eh, if you're including black ops series, then you might as well include Yoshi's Island series. It has Mario in it, and it was actually called Super Mario World 2 back in the day.

Yoshi's Island games should be counted imo.




Let's hear your argument for that.

Sunshin, galaxy. 3d land , and the NSB series do not play the same at all?

Unless we lying today.

 

[Gannd]

We like to shit on all the CoD's and Assassin's Creeds, but Nintendo has been guilty of milking the same franchises far more than these other game series'. What happened to their ability to create new IP's? All I ever hear about is Zelda, Mario, Starfox, Donkey Kong, Pokemon. I've owned every Nintendo system other than Virtual Boy up till now (Wii-U I have yet to buy). I'm a bit burned out on their franchises.

But I guess they're still popular so what do I know...

Yeah...no they don't. They traditionally release one Zelda,one Mario, one NSMB. They do not release yearly sequels. uncharted was milked more than Mario.

 

[Gannd]

Nintendo in the 90s were perfect. Because every new Mario game they released was unique in terms of gameplay and artstyle.

cant say the same thing for the marios the last 10 years.

That isn't true. Mario Galaxy is the most inventive game released in the last generation.

 

[batbeg]

I've never in my life imagined a time I wouldn't be enjoying and/or looking forward to playing a new Mario game. In fact, I still don't feel that way. I'd be fine with less spinoffs and more deviations from the NSMB title, but every title bar NSMB (and kind of NSMB2) since the beginning has been just awesome.

 

[NeonZ]

I'm not so sure. The style of 3D Mario games introduced in 3D Land clearly resonated with the consumer which is why 3D Land is the fastest selling 3D Mario game. Besides, 3D World's levels are no different in scope/scale to the Galaxy ones which didn't have the gravity mechanics

3d Land also was something new though. 3d World completely misses that side of the game by being just a Land rehash. It likely will sell software, but I'm not sure it'll help moving systems any more than NSMB U did.

3d World does have the addition of co-op multiplayer though, like the NSMB -> NSMB Wii transition, but, yet again, it's just reusing something we've seen before. And, really, I think Nintendo hurt its local co-op set up with the Gamepad +Wiimotes, rather than just a single control method. Yes, I know, asymmetrical multiplayer and all that, but I don't think that idea is resonating well with buyers.

Of course, franchises like Starfox or Metroid likely wouldn't be real system sellers without some big changes, but I think the last crop of Mario games has missed the point, and potential, by a lot. I guess my problem isn't with them making Mario games, but what they're doing with them.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

No. I need more.

 

[ShellyDeKiller]

wow

They actually do something others wouldn't by releasing only one per console in a generation, but it's still "OMG, milking milking milking"

 

[Davey Cakes]

New Super Mario Bros. 2 should NOT have existed. The 3DS having 3D Land was good enough when NSMB U was set to release a little while later. Not every platform has to have full coverage of all types of Mario games.

Everything else is fine though. NSMB U and Luigi U are legitimately good 2D platformers that don't feel particularly redundant as a package. We have one console 3D Mario coming up.

It's good to avoid redundancies in order to avoid series fatigue. I honestly feel like NSMB2 is the only true redundancy in the Mario platformers thus far. I'm pretty sure with the knowledge of NSMB U's existence, many people in the gaming audience had an "uh, really?" response to NSMB2's announcement.

 

[FyreWulff]

They need to have more of a an art and music refresh between games than anything right now. NSMBWii was bleh but U is pretty damn good to me, it's a shame it shares the same artstyle with all the other New games and at first glance, looks like an expansion pack for those games.

no more friggin bah bahs

 

[Teletraan1]

Unfortunately they cant, their stupid decisions which alienated 3rd parties has left them desperately needing software, hardware sales are in the tank so its up to Mario to save the WiiU.

Spoiler

He Wont

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

No. I need more.

This, but I would like to see more art-styles and a new environment..

 

[zoukka]

I do agree to the fact that the NSMB presentation is at its limit. Te next 2D Mario needs a unique style, theme and structure. One "best of" 2D Mario is enough for each Ninty platform.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

We're not gonna any more NSMB games for several years, and thank goodness for that.

Now they got time for New Yoshi's Island and maybe New Super Metroid next year

 

[entremet]

Nah.

 

[alr1ght]

You don't need to put Mario and Friends into almost every goddamn game. That's why it might appear there's too many "Super Mario" games, when in reality there isn't.

 

[Respawn]

I would love a serious Starfox with no ground missions. Just bring back that first game magic. Massive fleets and hairballs.

 

[RPGCrazied]

I don't care, but where the hell is Metroid? That seriously needs to return.

 

[Davey Cakes]

You don't need to put Mario and Friends into almost every goddamn game. That's why it might appear there's too many "Super Mario" games, when in reality there isn't.

It's true that there are probably too many games with Mario characters in them.

That said, the Mario universe, settings, and characters are rather versatile and it's rather impressive how many genres they can be used in.

I think all of the Mario sports games are legit. I definitely think that the Mario RPG games are legit. Maybe Mario & Sonic is one that's a tad redundant? But even then, people thought the idea of pitting Mario against Sonic was pretty nifty back when the first game was announced. The existence of Smash Bros. may have harmed that novelty, though.

It's games like Fortune Street that make me wonder why the Nintendo characters were really necessary. Then again, sometimes it's about selling power.

I want to say that Mario's characters should be in less games but upon thinking about it, all of the games they're in are pretty damn varied and good. I wouldn't know where to draw the line without depriving people of legitimately good gaming experiences, regardless of the use of the Mario IP.

I don't care, but where the hell is Metroid? That seriously needs to return.

I agree. All I really want is for a new 2D one though.

 

[Currygan]

no. I love them

 

[entremet]

You don't need to put Mario and Friends into almost every goddamn game. That's why it might appear there's too many "Super Mario" games, when in reality there isn't.

You know why they do that, though? The games sell better with Mario characters in them. It's a business decision plain and simple.

And with Nintendo recent struggles, can you blame them?

 

[BowieZ]

This is kinda the artstyle I want in the next Mario game, weird source I know:

Kinda like the old box art, full of detail, Mario shows a bit of sunburn and strain, enemies a little more gritty and evil, but still nice and clean with well defined platform structures (although not made of repeating textures).

Spoiler

bonus points for a graffiti inspired design

 

[Duster]

As of March 31, 2012:

(Courtesy of The_Iascar)

Poor SMG2 deserved better than that.

Anyway they could do with a years break but no longer than that.

I do think they need to give the impression that the maximum amount of effort has gone into the creation of the games though, the generic art-styles, toads in multi-player, broken coin rush mode, the dearth of truly difficult levels in some (but not all) recent titles, lack of new enemies and even having no instruction manuals give the impression that they've half-assed it which isn't something I ever felt with older Mario games.

It's their flagship series so should never dip in quality like that, it should always feel like a premium experience you can't get elsewhere, recently games like Rayman: Origins and DCKR have arguably had better 2D incarnations.

 

[JoeM86]

3d Land also was something new though. 3d World completely misses that side of the game by being just a Land rehash. It likely will sell software, but I'm not sure it'll help moving systems any more than NSMB U did.

3d World does have the addition of co-op multiplayer though, like the NSMB -> NSMB Wii transition, but, yet again, it's just reusing something we've seen before. And, really, I think Nintendo hurt its local co-op set up with the Gamepad +Wiimotes, rather than just a single control method. Yes, I know, asymmetrical multiplayer and all that, but I don't think that idea is resonating well with buyers.

Of course, franchises like Starfox or Metroid likely wouldn't be real system sellers without some big changes, but I think the last crop of Mario games has missed the point, and potential, by a lot. I guess my problem isn't with them making Mario games, but what they're doing with them.

I really hate how people use the term rehash when what they mean is sequel. Seriously, it's really doing my head in due to the amount of times people say that here.

Super Mario 3D World is not a rehash in any sense of the word. It builds upon the 2D/3D hybrid mechanics of the previous game and makes it larger in scope. Other than the location of the camera in multiplayer (it's fully controllable in single player), the name, and the fact it's a hybrid, it shares very little with its predecessor.

It also features the Cat Mario mechanic which totally changes how you go about tackling the platforming aspects of the levels, due to the ability to now climb.

Also, its predecessor helped sell the 3DS, in combination with Mario Kart 7, and to a lesser extent, the price cut that occurred 3 months prior to its launch. There is zero reason to assume 3D World would not do that

Poor SMG2 deserved better than that.

Anyway they could do with a years break but no longer than that.

I do think they need to give the impression that the maximum amount of effort has gone into the creation of the games though, the generic art-styles, toads in multi-player, broken coin rush mode, the dearth of truly difficult levels in some (but not all) recent titles, lack of new enemies and even having no instruction manuals give the impression that they've half-assed it which isn't something I ever felt with older Mario games.

It's their flagship series so should never dip in quality like that, it should always feel like a premium experience you can't get elsewhere, recently games like Rayman: Origins and DCKR have arguably had better 2D incarnations.

Lack of new enemies? Did you see Super Mario 3D World's trailer? There are loads of new enemies in that, as well as some which haven't been in the games for decades

 

[alr1ght]

You know why they do that, though? The games sell better with Mario characters in them. It's a business decision plain and simple.

And with Nintendo recent struggles, can you blame them?

And it continues to handcuff them to their traditional Nintendo fans. No harm in having a few Mario characters as bonuses, but making everything so homogenized just reinforces the position of being sick of "Nintendo games" even if they're very different.

 

[Oersted]

You don't need to put Mario and Friends into almost every goddamn game. That's why it might appear there's too many "Super Mario" games, when in reality there isn't.

They are actually pushing those Mii charas way more into their games, including Mario games.

 

[Conor 419]

Lets ignore the importance that Super Mario Bro's games plays for the business side of Nintendo for a moment. Super Mario games have been my absolute favorite and most looked forward to since the NES so it pains me to ask the question but should Nintendo take a break from these games?

Perhaps I am alone but I feel that Nintendo is running out of ways to differentiate these games in the most recent releases. While I enjoyed 3DLand I was quite disappointed in NSMB U and 3D World doesn't seem to look much better IMO. It feels somewhat stale.

I feel the same with Halo for MS and Uncharted for Sony. These are some
Of the most treasured and most valuable IPs in all of gaming but at a certain point they've lost some steam and I don't see SMB being exempt from the same issue.

Now perhaps I just expect too much from mainline SMB games. Compared to most games NSMB U was a very good game but these aren't your every day titles and there is a bit more expected which is a good thing. Now obviously it would be a stupid business move for Nintendo to ever take a break from Mario but I can't help but think that doing so would actually benefit ths IP in the end.

Perhaps I'm just crazy so I completely understand if you folks respond to this question in a way that reflects that possibility. Either way I am curious about your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks

No, the Mario brand is well managed, unlike Halo in which MS have practically killed the IP.

 

[zoukka]

People always post that one 3D World gif like it somehow demonstrates that the game is not a 3D Land iteration. It absolutely is and the levels are balanced for a fixed camera angle. It's probably bigger in scale, but the time limit alone tells us that it's more akin to 3D Land than any of the other 3D Mario games.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The post is weirdly constructed as well. "Besides having a similar art direction, name, control scheme, 2d/3d combination of level design structure and gameplay philosophy, it's TOTALLY different, you guys"

 

[meppi]

Troll harder

He couldn't even if he tried.

 

[JoeM86]

My argument was that it's not a rehash. I never disputed that it was a sequel to 3D Land. What I meant is that it's an evolution

 

[Mlatador]

One 3D and one 2D (not counting DLC) every 5 years for each platform (handheld and home console) is not even in the slightest possible way "too much", so that Nintendo needed to "take a break" from this realease policy.

So no.

 

[polyh3dron]

New Super Mario Bros games are one per console. There are no new consoles coming out so that will take a break

3D Mario games typically are one per console (barring Galaxy). There are no new consoles coming out so that will take a break.

People say Nintendo have to make money back, but you're essentially asking them to turn off their best selling franchise in favour of franchises which don't sell. There's no logic in that

Let's not put this 3D World game in the same category as 64, Sunshine and Galaxy, it doesn't fit and you know it.