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[Soulscribe]

Smash 4 (Wii U) is probably my favorite game in the series but I can see and feel the slaving and long obscene hours that went into making it. This guy is a legend and he deserves to take a looooooong rest or take on less ambitious titles.

As long as the spirit or integrity of the series isn't messed with, I'm all for new talent. If anything, I want him to hold a smaller role next time only because Smash 4 was such an achievement. Take a long ass victory lap brah.

 

[BGBW]

Nintendo needs to make games that it knows how to make, because when they don't, they make an undignified game. Let people who know how to make those kind of games, make those kinds of games.

What? If Nintendo stuck to what they knew they would never have made video games in the first place.

 

[Metal B]

I call bullshit. Being a good dev doesn't make you a master of genre. It's the same as "hi I'm Miyamoto and I could make Halo." Nintendo needs to make games that it knows how to make, because when they don't, they make an undignified game. Let people who know how to make those kind of games, make those kinds of games.

Being a good developers is a key to handle a project. The genre doesn't matter that much in the end, since you have a basic understatement of the medium and industry (that's why i think, Nintendo could create a lot of good games, but of course would struggle in other industries). If your good, you know, which people you hire, who you asking for advice and what you're researching. The only question remaining is: How big is your passion and believe in a product (and how lucky are you)! Even good artist can struggle, because of a lack of this. Then you start to do mistakes, wave away problems and not investing enough money or time.

For me Brawl was Sakruai don't taking Smash Brothers seriously. There wasn't enough passion at the end for the game, which why it properly ended up broken in the details. Which is strange for him. SSB4 on the other hand looks like, he really wanted to repair his self-image and show the world his real vision of Brawl. I believe, people like Sakruai and Miyamoto don't throw out those words without thinking about it and they have the background and prove to underline there believes.

What? If Nintendo stuck to what they knew they would never have made video games in the first place.

Also this.

 

[injurai]

Can we stop making this stupid suggestion! Modding a game is a compete other beast, then developing a game from the ground. Most of the job of PM was already made in advance from the original developers like the game mechanics, game code, game engine, the assets and a lot more. Developing and directing a game is more, then choosing hit-boxes, frames and features.

I mean them to be in an advisory role representing the values of the competitive community. Not to actually be the dev team. Though I suppose some certainly could be developers in their own right given their skills.

 

[Metal B]

I mean them to be in an advisory role representing the values of the competitive community. Not to actually be the dev team. Though I suppose some certainly could be developers in their own right given their skills.

They actually did talk to the competitive community for SSB4. Just not the western community. The Japanese community for example is actually more into the Final Destination, then the western side. That's why we got the Omgea-Form in the first place.

 

[Polioliolio]

It's so sad that this thread became about Melee, like any Smash criticism always does. There are tons of us who are total casuals who didn't like the direction Brawl and Smash 4 took who have no desire for Melee 2.0. I think it's easier for those who like a game like Smash 4 to believe that the only critics of it are hardcore competitive Melee fans than actually look at the points made.

My post earlier in the thread (here) made 5 points and did not mention Melee by name once. Complaining that the series hasn't really progressed in terms of modes or playable content, that single player is bad, that the style of game it has become is not what I personally want out of the game, or what was established in the first two games - it's really annoying when these things are dismissed as "lol Melee fanboys, what can we do with you".

EDIT: To be totally clear, neither me or my brother (or cousins) have any idea what L-cancelling or wavedashing is, but we DO want to feel like we're fighting each other more than the stage, and we DO want to feel like the objective is to knock each other off the side of the stage instead of the top.

I don't think I've read a comment about Smash Bros that felt so in line with my opinion on it.

I'm not competitive melee obsessed nut, nor am I a filthy casual who loves chaos (do they really? Has anyone confirmed that casual players actually like all the madness? I read something recently, forget what it was, that casuals actually hated dying to all that chaotic stuff, even more than more competent players... So it's back firing, if anything), I'm just a middle of the road guy who grew up with Nintendo and loves all the characters and worlds they come from.

I love a simple, yet solid game that people of any skill level can get waist deep into and just have a blast with the mechanics of the game.



To disagree with the recent post that said that Smash 4 is what Smash Bros. 64 was meant to be all along... Sorry, I don't buy it. I think Smash Bros 64 was exactly what it was supposed to be.

Sure, you've got some moving elements in stages, and the floating bumper, but that PALES in comparison to the madness.. the explosions, the boss characters that come onto the stage and killing you basically nonstop in Smash 4.

.. and my other biggest complaint, that I've brought up, is that all the content.. all hollow boring stuff. I cringe to say it, because certainly a shit ton of work was put into this game, but my initial feeling is *what the heck have you guys been working on all this time??* Most of the content is a bunch of fluff (target, homerun, multiman.. all the same shit again without any strong new feature), half baked (Smash Tour), or just awful.. I mean even worse than Brawl (Stage Creator).

The customization elements don't appeal to me either. Maybe custom moves, but I feel more comfortable with each character just being their unique self. I think they should have just altered up some of the moves and put new skins in, so simple alternate costume characters can basically be their own beast, like Dr. Mario, Alph (w/ Brittany and Charlie), etc.

I'm going to risk being mauled and just say all of this stuff that made it to the end of development in this form.. this half baked stuff that most people don't really even bother with.. the broken stage creator... are the result of poor direction.

Sakurai is a hands on kind of guy. If he's responsible for the tight fighting engine, he needs to stay focused on a few things like that. He's awesome in that regard.

 

[woopWOOP]

I'd love for him to return once more. The guy has such an attention for detail, knows how to give the old and obscure of Nintendo some love and makes sure to pack the game full of content and different modes.
On the other hand he's probably dead sick of being called back to direct it again and again. He'd still do it because Smash is 'his baby', but c'mon the guy deserves a break already. Atleast until his hand heals.

 

[ec0ec0]

I think Smash Bros 64 was exactly what it was supposed to be.

and it worked beautifully, i'd like to add.

(the last time that i played smash 64 casually with friend was just some months ago. The game is still godlike)

 

[sd28821]

They actually did talk to the competitive community for SSB4. Just not the western community. The Japanese community for example is actually more into the Final Destination, then the western side. That's why we got the Omgea-Form in the first place.

considering some of the responses in this thread don't bother hes the devil that hates them and the cancer thats destroying the game etc .

 

[Vena]

Nintendo needs to make games that it knows how to make, because when they don't, they make an undignified game. Let people who know how to make those kind of games, make those kinds of games.

Holy shit, dude. That's some regressive thinking that outright ignores history.

Nintendo didn't know how to make a 3D game, they made Mario 64. Nintendo didn't know how to make a FPS, they made Metroid Prime. Nintendo didn't know how to make a 3D Zelda, they made OoT/MM. Nintendo didn't know how to make video games.

I guess you'd rather we all still be throwing rocks at one another because one game doesn't suit your way of thinking or preference.

 

[Toxi]

Wave dashing is awesome and fun and not that hard to do. I want to see it return because it's actually a great gameplay mechanic, even if it was an accidental result of the physics. With wave dashing, you suddenly gain new options with every character. I'd be fine with the timing being a bit looser if it's still too difficult for some people, but it really deserves a second chance.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

Of course he should, hes the best.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Would another developer think so much about what fans want? Not just to make money, but what fans would be happy with, even if that element has no bearing on revenue at all.

Nobody bought Smash 4 because Doctor Mario returned to the series. Him as a character makes nobody money (except the 10 people who will buy his Amiibo, which will probably be retailer exclusive and/or sold out in seconds)

And yet when sitting down and designing the game, Sakurai originally had Doctor Mario as a costume. It made sense, he's just Mario with a lab coat.

And yet that wasn't enough for Sakurai. He figured out that fans really enjoyed Doc in Melee as sort of a weird niche Mario character, that they liked role playing as a doctor and making funny pictures and what not. He realized that making a veteran into an alt skin would disappoint those people who liked him as a character. He thought they'd find it weird he used Fluud and his pills bounced like fire balls.

I don't know if another developer would pay so much attention to what a small subset of players would feel if such a change to a character was made. And so the first character to ever be cut from Smash Bros to return (with Mewtwo tears) was born.

It's thoughts like that, that make me appreciate the work Sakurai puts into Smash. I'm one of those Doctor Mario fans from Melee. I'm the kid that role played Doc in Melee with fun little made up games. When I found out he returned I was super excited, and when I found out why he returned it made me even happier

 

[entremet]

Nintendo isn't known for making competitive fighting games, why should their qualities as a developer be relevant?

Nintendo could easily make a competitive focused fighting game. They just haven't pursued that audience.

They are going in that direction with Pokken Tournament, although it will be outsourced to Harada's Tekken team.

People also forget that they funded and greenlit Killer Instinct 1/2. It seems they prefer to outsource more traditional fighters. Heck even Smash's first iteration was not in house--it was HAL.

 

[Tookay]

considering some of the responses in this thread don't bother hes the devil that hates them and the cancer thats destroying the game etc .

Please. Quote these strawmen for me.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Veeeery deep.

Wow, a super macho fat guy. Fascinating.

 

[Next]

I'd rather see someone else get a crack at it. Sm4sh is truly disappointing.

 

[Camjo-Z]

Sakurai should keep coming back for as long as he wants to. I've yet to see a convincing argument against his return, unless you consider "but he didn't give my favorite series a new character/stage" or "but he doesn't design the game around competitive players" convincing arguments.

 

[Rentahamster]

Smash was originally designed and meant to be crazy, chaotic, and fun for people of all skill levels, elements that have been there since the beginning in Smash 64. It's the Melee community who turned it into something else only a relative handful of people enjoy

I think you're over-analyzing the issue, and saying that the blame is on the Melee community for "turning" the game into something else isn't a good way to put it. Communities just play games. It is what it is. Unless you mod it, you can't "turn" a game into anything. You make it sound like the Melee community "turned" Melee from a "crazy, chaotic, fun" game, into a bland game. It's still the same game, though. Melee is still crazy and chaotic (It always has been. It carried on the tradition from smash 64), depending on how one CHOOSES (key word here) to play it.

It's the Melee community who turned it into something else only a relative handful of people enjoy, and an obnoxious vocal minority in that community who now demand that Sakurai make more games suited to their minority tastes in favor of games designed for the majority that carry on the vision of what Smash has always (officially) been about, like Brawl and Smash 3DS/Wii U.

Maybe I'm not as familiar with the community as I think I am, but I don't think there are very many people who advocate this.

that carry on the vision of what Smash has always (officially) been about, like Brawl and Smash 3DS/Wii U.

This doesn't make any sense. Smash has always been about Nintendo characters beating each other up with Nintendo themed items on Nintendo themed stages, with simple gameplay that anyone can pick up and play. They all had this. All of them. Melee too. There is a pretty consistent theme present from 64 -> Melee -> Brawl -> Smash4, and it's not like the first two games in the series were any different.

I'm not saying at all that Melee players shouldn't play the game in whatever way they want; the fact that Smash can be played in so many different, equally legitimate ways is one of the best things about it. But that heretofore mentioned obnoxious, vocal minority in the Melee community have completely forgotten that Melee - in the specific way that they play it, with items off, only a handful of characters used, and most of the stages "banned" - is not even close to Sakurai's original intent for the series and its gameplay. They're the outliers

Who cares if they're outliers? It doesn't affect you. You just said that one of the best things about Smash is that it can be played in so many different ways.

Thankfully I've learned recently that most of the people in the hardcore Melee community are decent folks who understand this and simply would like another game that caters to all tastes

That's good, why not leave it at that?

Because this:

I think some of the angrier Melee players tend to forget that for the vast majority of people - no matter how good they are and what rules they play with - mechanics mean nothing in the face of the fact that the newest Smash game has beloved characters to play as that weren't in the last game

Is irrelevant. You're arguing against a straw man.

in terms of what Smash is and has always officially been designed to be - a 2D platform-based fighting/party game with an all-star cast of fan-favorite Nintendo and third-party characters and chaotic/random gameplay elements thrown in to maximize the laughs had by those playing - there is no doubt that each game has greatly improved upon the last

OK, this seems to be contradictory compared to what you wrote earlier, but maybe I'm just reading it wrong. This is essentially what a "Smash Bros" game is, so I as long as the game has those elements, I don't see why you're so hung up over the opinions of other people who prefer to play (which is separate from all those things just mentioned) the game differently than you.

Arguments of over what Smash "is", in terms of original intent and what not is a futile exercise that will be clouded with personal biases and experiences. What matters is how fun it is to play, and what is the best way to evolve the series in a way that makes it fun and engaging for the widest audience.

Speaking personally, Smash Wii U's near-perfect character roster that includes my dream character, Mega Man, guarantees by itself that I have no reason to ever go back to Brawl, Melee, or 64

Character selection is the most important aspect of the game for you. A thought - if Smash4's roster was the same, but the gameplay was more like Melee's, you'd still love the game, yes? It would have pretty wide appeal. What would be the downside to such a thing? Don't say it would be difficult for beginners, because Melee is one of the most casual-friendly party games out there.

That Sakurai can't seem to grasp this concept of accessibility to ALL players makes me think that he's a little outdated and out of touch in game design philosophy.

 

[JoeInky]

I actually disagree with the idea that Smash 4 is a full realisation of how the series started in 64.


64 and Melee feel like Super Smash Bros. 1 and 2, Brawl and 4 feel more like some kind of "New Super Smash Bros. 1 and 2" rather than a continuation of the series imo.

Smash 4 is nothing like 64 if you ask me, which I've been saying since before the game even released.

 

[BGBW]

Sakurai himself said Smash Tour is basically taking the initial concept of Smash 64 and running away with it.

Also saying Brawl and Smash 4 are like the NSMBs of the series is a bit odd since the purpose of the NEW series was to take the series back to it's root, ergo you're saying Melee went in a different direction and Brawl and Smash 4 returned to what it once was (which is an odd thing to say about a four/five game series).

 

[entremet]

Sakurai himself said Smash Tour is basically taking the initial concept of Smash 64 and running away with it.

Also saying Brawl and Smash 4 are like the NSMBs of the series is a bit odd since the purpose of the NEW series was to take the series back to it's root, ergo you're saying Melee went in a different direction and Brawl and Smash 4 returned to what it once was (which is an odd thing to say about a four/five game series).

Yeah. I don't get that analogy.

 

[Tookay]

Sakurai should keep coming back for as long as he wants to. I've yet to see a convincing argument against his return, unless you consider "but he didn't give my favorite series a new character/stage" or "but he doesn't design the game around competitive players" convincing arguments.

This whole characterization is disingenuous - you've already convinced yourself of something that isn't even what people are asking.

Few people want him to design AROUND competitive players, to the implied detriment of casual players.

But plenty want him to accommodate a style of play that retains competitive play at no cost to casual players.

 

[JoeInky]

Alright, well they felt more like a spinoff or something.

Basically what I mean is they were going in one direction from 64 to Melee but then completely changed direction with Brawl then kept going with 4.

 

[mStudios]

lol'd at people saying Nintendo should hire the Project M Team

 

[Ipsoclipso]

lol'd at people saying Nintendo should hire the Project M Team

I don't actually see anything wrong with that. If Nintendo ever wanted to make a competitive Smash game they could hire them as a balancing & testing or advisory team. they know what makes a competitive Smash game, and have years of experience in making one.

 

[Daouzin]

lol'd at people saying Nintendo should hire the Project M Team

lol at the people that don't realize modders get hired all the time.

Nintendo is too protective of their processes. They need to think BIGGER. They need to start looking outside of their bubble, as much as I love them.

Companies like Riot, Valve and Blizzard really understand their communities and why people love them.

I think Nintendo needs to start thinking outside the box a little more on the terms of community engagement. Making a Melee 2.0 or a Melee mode within Smash 4 isn't a radical risk if the team dedicated to doing it is smaller and using an existing engine.

It doesn't need to be the PM team, but it needs to be a group of people that "get it,". Sakurai doesn't and he basically says that he gets that he doesn't get it.

Also, Nintendo needs to add a Double Dash mode to Mario Kart 8, but you know they won't because they hate easy money for the sake of their protective process.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Also, Nintendo needs to add a Double Dash mode to Mario Kart 8, but you know they won't because they hate easy money for the sake of their protective process.

This is like the first time I've ever seen this idea posted. I don't really think it's hating money to not include a feature that's pretty much not going to make any additional money.

 

[BGBW]

Also, Nintendo needs to add a Double Dash mode to Mario Kart 8, but you know they won't because they hate easy money for the sake of their protective process.

What?
They won't add two racers to their karts because of some protective process? Maybe feed back for the gimmick wasn't well received so they've moved on.

 

[Neoxon]

I thought Sakurai's statement was that he didn't want to make a game that's 100% made with the competitive scene in mind, but rather a game for everyone both casual & competitive.

 

[Ithil]

Yes.

 

[direct_quote]

lol at the people that don't realize modders get hired all the time.

Nintendo is too protective of their processes. They need to think BIGGER. They need to start looking outside of their bubble, as much as I love them.

Companies like Riot, Valve and Blizzard really understand their communities and why people love them.

I think Nintendo needs to start thinking outside the box a little more on the terms of community engagement. Making a Melee 2.0 or a Melee mode within Smash 4 isn't a radical risk if the team dedicated to doing it is smaller and using an existing engine.

It doesn't need to be the PM team, but it needs to be a group of people that "get it,". Sakurai doesn't and he basically says that he gets that he doesn't get it.

Also, Nintendo needs to add a Double Dash mode to Mario Kart 8, but you know they won't because they hate easy money for the sake of their protective process.

Usually modders get hired if they are bringing something new to the table. For Valve Dota, CS, DOD all were unique products that brought in tons of new customers, let alone new IPs that existed separate of their current products. In fact many people bought Half-life to play mods (myself included). How many people is Project M going to bring in? It is a re-balancing of an existing game with added mechanics, not an entire new IP like Dota, CS, and DOD (and technically they bought the TF team too to make TFC)... Plus Nintendo is a Japanese company which would complicate things further with the language barrier..

Is it possible that Nintendo could create SSB like say dota or LOL where constant updates and the competitive scene is the focus? Possibly, but at the moment Smash seems to be utilized to sell on it's name alone and to push systems out. I know I bought a GCN for Smash Bros, and a Wii U for Sm4sh.

 

[Azuran]

I actually disagree with the idea that Smash 4 is a full realisation of how the series started in 64.


64 and Melee feel like Super Smash Bros. 1 and 2, Brawl and 4 feel more like some kind of "New Super Smash Bros. 1 and 2" rather than a continuation of the series imo.

Smash 4 is nothing like 64 if you ask me, which I've been saying since before the game even released.

So what you're basically saying is that Brawl and 4 are better than Melee?

Because otherwise this analogy makes no fucking sense considering 64 and Melee don't play the same at all either.

 

[Cipherr]

It's more of a spin-off of the thread about the complaints of Smash 4, & I was noticing quite a bit of hate. So this thread will be more of if Sakurai should return & why. Not much to it than that, so here's to a good discussion.

Every Smash bros game gets a bit of hate. All of them. Even the first

lol at the people that don't realize modders get hired all the time.

Nintendo is too protective of their processes. They need to think BIGGER. They need to start looking outside of their bubble, as much as I love them.

Companies like Riot, Valve and Blizzard really understand their communities and why people love them.

I think Nintendo needs to start thinking outside the box a little more on the terms of community engagement. Making a Melee 2.0 or a Melee mode within Smash 4 isn't a radical risk if the team dedicated to doing it is smaller and using an existing engine.

It doesn't need to be the PM team, but it needs to be a group of people that "get it,". Sakurai doesn't and he basically says that he gets that he doesn't get it.

Also, Nintendo needs to add a Double Dash mode to Mario Kart 8, but you know they won't because they hate easy money for the sake of their protective process.

The only thing they need to do is ignore you. Awful suggestions from top to bottom. Jesus H Christ.... LOL @ Double Dash mode.

Don't quit your day job.

 

[KirbyKid]

I read most of the thread. Lot's of different views and voices here. Only a bit of heated talk here and there. I consider that to be largely a success.

My main focus is improving the Smash community by helping us all communicate better. As some of you all know, I've been collecting Smasher thoughts and opinions. If you have the time, consider filling out the survey at the site below.

Even if you think your voice doesn't matter, know that I'm listening.

www.smash.menu

 

[crap monkey]

Every Smash bros game gets a bit of hate. All of them. Even the first



The only thing they need to do is ignore you. Awful suggestions from top to bottom. Jesus H Christ.... LOL @ Double Dash mode.

Don't quit your day job.

I like how in this post you refuted each of his suggestions thoughtfully and took the time post your own opinion on why they are so bad from "top to bottom".

 

[A Link to the Past]

Holy shit, dude. That's some regressive thinking that outright ignores history.

Nintendo didn't know how to make a 3D game, they made Mario 64. Nintendo didn't know how to make a FPS, they made Metroid Prime. Nintendo didn't know how to make a 3D Zelda, they made OoT/MM. Nintendo didn't know how to make video games.

I guess you'd rather we all still be throwing rocks at one another because one game doesn't suit your way of thinking or preference.

Are you kidding me?

1. This is the most hyperbolic reactionary shit I've seen.

2. Nintendo didn't make Metroid Prime, they hired people to make it. Miyamoto helping to guide the design of the game was useful, but that was less important than having designers who understand the genre. In fact, citing Metroid Prime justifies what everyone's been saying: hire people who know how to make games in the genre, don't do it yourself. You'll have a better game.

 

[Daouzin]

In fact many people bought Half-life to play mods (myself included).

Yeah, I think people don't realize that PM has been massively successful at bringing new blood to the scene.

New Mexico Smash scene plays PM more than Melee and many people in the scene wouldn't be play Smash at all if it wasn't for PM.

The same is true for people here in Phoenix. Like every Smash community here has tons of people that only started playing Smash when people talked about PM being a Brawl hack and were curious about it and got hooked. Most of them don't play Melee, but they prefer PM to Smash 4 and would also not be playing Smash still if it wasn't for PM.

PM has brought in tons of new people.

So I don't see how that's any different then people modding HL2 and then being hired. Seems like people just hate outside the box thoughts.

I like how in this post you refuted each of his suggestions thoughtfully and took the time post your own opinion on why they are so bad from "top to bottom".

I thought I was above saying this, but I'm glad you did.

Spoiler

So now I'm saying it.

 

[Vena]

This is the most hyperbolic reactionary shit I've seen.

Oh please, like your statement isn't absurd leaps of logic into nonsensical oblivion. "Getting other people to do it" doesn't necessarily mean it will be a better product, moreover stifling creative experimentation only serves to rob us of possibilities of surprises or outsider thinking to enrichen a genre or product.

As per the Retro/Metroid issue, yes, perhaps it wasn't the best example as Retro was at that time much more self-standing. However, applying your absurd logic, Retro should have never made DK:Returns because they'd never proven themselves capable of it and had succeeded flawlessly with Prime. They should have just made more Prime, and had someone else make a DK game. (When we get down to it, Nintendo proper didn't even make Smash, ever. It was Sora/HAL/Bamco.)

 

[A Link to the Past]

Yet you miss the point entirely. Someone said that they shouldn't hire a team of people who know what they are doing because they can just fart out a 90+ rated competitive fighting game with zero experience in the genre. That's some serious fanboyism.

Also, prepare a new example. because the main reason why Retro made DKCR was because then CEO Michael Kelbaugh worked on the SNES DKC games.

 

[Vena]

Yet you miss the point entirely. Someone said that they shouldn't hire a team of people who know what they are doing because they can just fart out a 90+ rated competitive fighting game with zero experience in the genre. That's some serious fanboyism.

That's not really where this started at all, you're the one who said they had never made a competitive fighter before... which is rather a pointless observation since (a.) Nintendo isn't the one making the games, and (b.) Bamco has made many fighting games, many of them rather popular. Moreover, the fact that a developer has never tried does not, for any reason, forfeit their ability to try just because you didn't like what they produced. You don't "fart" out 90+ games that are consistently praised even by the majority of the playerbase.

Moreover, this whole discussion isn't even about making good games, its about making a game you'd prefer. For that end, you'd prefer PM devs to do it since you know full well they'd make a clone of Melee just like you like it. Sakurai won't, so long as he's in charge... but removing him won't necessarily guarantee much of anything.

Also, prepare a new example. because the main reason why Retro made DKCR was because then CEO Michael Kelbaugh worked on the SNES DKC games.

Fair enough, lol. But I can keep dredging up examples: Splatoon.

 

[A Link to the Past]

And in the end, a product will always be at its best in the hands of experienced developers than inexperienced developers. Nintendo may be good, but they are not beyond the need to know what they are doing in an area. Let's not forget what happened when Nintendo tried to make the leap into HD - Pikmin 3 got delayed by nearly a year, solely because Nintendo did not know what they were doing with HD.

 

[Vena]

And in the end, a product will always be at its best in the hands of experienced developers than inexperienced developers. Nintendo may be good, but they are not beyond the need to know what they are doing in an area. Let's not forget what happened when Nintendo tried to make the leap into HD - Pikmin 3 got delayed by nearly a year, solely because Nintendo did not know what they were doing with HD.

Well, yes, it is obvious that experienced devs would make a more reliable product than newer ones. What isn't obvious or guaranteed is the quality or the novelty of the product.

Nintendo stumbling led to us getting things like 3DWorld and Toad, absolutely gorgeous HD games.

 

[Tookay]

And in the end, a product will always be at its best in the hands of experienced developers than inexperienced developers. Nintendo may be good, but they are not beyond the need to know what they are doing in an area. Let's not forget what happened when Nintendo tried to make the leap into HD - Pikmin 3 got delayed by nearly a year, solely because Nintendo did not know what they were doing with HD.

But... now they do know how to make a beautiful game in HD.

Just because something is outside your skill set doesn't mean that you aren't capable of picking it up and succeeding.

 

[A Link to the Past]

But... now they do know how to make a beautiful game in HD.

Just because something is outside your skill set doesn't mean that you aren't capable of picking it up and succeeding.

And just because you may one day overcome something does not mean that you should leap into something and expect any good to come of it when you know nothing of what you're going into. If Nintendo wants to make a good competitive fighting game, then they should hire experienced fighting game developers. In this case, the discussion started as a counter to the notion that Nintendo should hire PM devs to work/consult on the next Smash Bros., where someone said "no Nintendo can do it." This statement was, more or less, "Nintendo cannot fail at anything they do" (and yet Nintendo has failed at many things, most often things that fall outside of their comfort zone). My statement that Nintendo should have people who know what they are doing with a genre or whatever is valid because it's the truth. When Nintendo wanted FP Metroid, they gave it to FPS designers. When Nintendo wanted to make a new DKC game, they gave it to a DKC dev (even if that dev did not work on it in the end, that is the main reason why Retro was given the project).

 

[xaszatm]

And just because you may one day overcome something does not mean that you should leap into something and expect any good to come of it when you know nothing of what you're going into. If Nintendo wants to make a good competitive fighting game, then they should hire experienced fighting game developers. In this case, the discussion started as a counter to the notion that Nintendo should hire PM devs to work/consult on the next Smash Bros., where someone said "no Nintendo can do it." This statement was, more or less, "Nintendo cannot fail at anything they do" (and yet Nintendo has failed at many things, most often things that fall outside of their comfort zone). My statement that Nintendo should have people who know what they are doing with a genre or whatever is valid because it's the truth. When Nintendo wanted FP Metroid, they gave it to FPS designers. When Nintendo wanted to make a new DKC game, they gave it to a DKC dev (even if that dev did not work on it in the end, that is the main reason why Retro was given the project).

...uh, when did Nintendo say they wanted to make a good competitive fighting game? Smash wasn't meant to be a competitive fighting game. It's meant to be a party game first and foremost. It has always been meant to be such a game. That's why there's always been 4-Player modes and items. Just because that's not how people play it competitively doesn't mean that Smash is now all about competitive play.

 

[A Link to the Past]

...uh, when did Nintendo say they wanted to make a good competitive fighting game? Smash wasn't meant to be a competitive fighting game. It's meant to be a party game first and foremost. It has always been meant to be such a game. That's why there's always been 4-Player modes and items. Just because that's not how people play it competitively doesn't mean that Smash is now all about competitive play.

This is a discussion about Nintendo needing to hire people if they wanted to make a competitive fighting game. Please read the conversation in full.

 

[crap monkey]

...uh, when did Nintendo say they wanted to make a good competitive fighting game? Smash wasn't meant to be a competitive fighting game. It's meant to be a party game first and foremost. It has always been meant to be such a game. That's why there's always been 4-Player modes and items. Just because that's not how people play it competitively doesn't mean that Smash is now all about competitive play.

The discussion between those two has focused on whether Nintendo can make a good competitive Smash or not. Not on whether Nintendo should. If you want to comment on their conversation make the effort to read through it.

This is a discussion about Nintendo needing to hire people if they wanted to make a competitive fighting game. Please read the conversation in full.

Beat me to it...it's pretty ridiculous and distracting when people do this.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Smash 4 is pretty fun and definitely competitive =D

 

[entremet]

Smash 4 is pretty fun and definitely competitive =D

Yep.