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[Cheech]

How does asking if you should buy something equal telling you what you should play? The thread title is a question, not an order.

That's what a boycott is. You're publicizing the fact that you're not going to buy X product because of Y reason. It's a good thing to do from time to time to keep companies honest (illegal dumping, abuse of employees, cancer causing products, etc.), but telling people they should boycott a game on a gaming forum for a HIGHLY controversial reason?

I couldn't make a more flame-filled thread if I spend 6 months thinking about it.

 

[Yoritomo]

JESUS FUCK! AGAIN!

UMAD?

 

[Divvy]

Have you purchased any game by any Japanese developer with characterizations of Blacks or Gays in it at any point in time?

Oh my fucking god, how are you still missing the point. It's not the fact that he holds these values, but the fact that he is part of a very powerful organization that spends a shitton of money to prevent a group from attaining rights. People don't want their money contributing to that cause.

 

[Big-E]

UMAD?

I am mad, mad that someone is able to type without reading and makes fucking retarded analogies so ya, I am mad.

 

[dark10x]

Why the fuck is the acceptability of something determined by it's ability to affect substantial change? Would you give $1 to a guy preaching intolerance? I wouldn't, and it's got fuck all to do with affecting change. I might give a shit about where my money goes and unlike the vast majority of cases, it's clear this time. I can make that choice. Anyone can.

The money you spend on this game goes towards the developers who worked long and hard to create a fantastic piece of software in addition to those who created the technology. That Card piece of shit had nothing to do with the creation of this software.

Giving a dollar to a guy preaching intolerance is completely f*cking different from spending money on a product that is very loosely connected with a single asshole.

Quite frankly, some of the people in this thread seem more concerned with making a statement (that will piss some folks off) than ACTUALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE. You're not convincing anyone to support you with this kind of talk, you know. These kinds of misguided attempts push those not directly connected to the issue away.

 

[truly101]

When are realists going to get their turn? Right now they seem to be the most minor minority of all.

Realists have other shit to do. Extremists know this and use it to their advantage.

 

[Yoritomo]

Oh my fucking god, how are you still missing the point. It's not the fact that he holds these values, but the fact that he is part of a very powerful organization that spends a shitton of money to prevent a group from attaining rights. People don't want their money contributing to that cause.

So he's like an old person. Old people don't like other people's rights. They were a huge factor in Jim Crow Era segregation and modern LGBT issues. We should boycott old people or start carousel.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It is kind of amazing how many people really want you to play, wait I mean buy, shadow complex even if you have to compromise your beliefs on something important to you.

It's like, I know you're a vegetarian, but this hamburger is so. amazing. oh my god. In the grand scale, it's not like one hamburger is going to affect anything.

I know you're abstinent, but really, but one or two or twenty thrusts isn't going to change anything! Your beliefs are silly and you should just get on all fours now.

I know you're Jewish, but take a bite out of that fucking pig!

 

[Yoritomo]

The money you spend on this game goes towards the developers who worked long and hard to create a fantastic piece of software in addition to those who created the technology. That Card piece of shit had nothing to do with the creation of this software.

Giving a dollar to a guy preaching intolerance is completely f*cking different from spending money on a product that is very loosely connected with a single asshole.

Quite frankly, some of the people in this thread seem more concerned with making a statement (that will piss some folks off) than ACTUALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

THIS

 

[KHarvey16]

Have you purchased any game by any Japanese developer with characterizations of Blacks or Gays in it at any point in time?

Round and round we go.

The money you spend on this game goes towards the developers who worked long and hard to create a fantastic piece of software in addition to those who created the technology. That Card piece of shit had nothing to do with the creation of this software.

Giving a dollar to a guy preaching intolerance is completely f*cking different from spending money on a product that is very loosely connected with a single asshole.

Quite frankly, some of the people in this thread seem more concerned with making a statement (that will piss some folks off) than ACTUALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE. You're not convincing anyone to support you with this kind of talk, you know. These kinds of misguided attempts push those not directly connected to the issue away.

He is gonna get royalties. My money, if I buy this game, will make its way to him. Would you like to argue this fact? You seem to vastly misunderstand the issue here. Read up.

 

[bluemax]

I can't believe this topic has gone on this many pages based off bad information and stupidity.

 

[truly101]

If people don't want to buy SC because they strongly disagree with someone who'll financially benefit from the project, thats their right. If people don't give a fuck, then thats fine too. I liked the GayGamer compromise. If you really want to buy the game but contributing to OSC is upsetting, then contribute 5 bucks to a Gay charity or awareness group. Sounds reasonable and sane to me.

 

[Yoritomo]

It is kind of amazing how many people really want you to play, wait I mean buy, shadow complex even if you have to compromise your beliefs on something important to you.

It's like, I know you're a vegetarian, but this hamburger is so. amazing. oh my god. In the grand scale, it's not like one hamburger is going to affect anything.

I know you're abstinent, but really, but one or two or twenty thrusts isn't going to change anything! Your beliefs are silly and you should just get on all fours now.

I know you're Jewish, but take a bite out of that fucking pig!

That would be awesome if there were any consistency in the crap being spewed in this thread.

Maybe Card is a deserving scapegoat for the modern plight of LGBT equality in modern America, but to be completely fair you're going to have to wait for more religions to shrink and old people to die before things change drastically. The question then is Card's association with Shadow Complex enough for the developers to suffer the wrath of the GAF LGBT rainbow coalition's boycott, my basic opinion is that it is not.

I'm sure there are some pure righteous equal rights holders of merit here on gaf who have consistently boycotted games that had anyone with any bigotry in their bones or express any racist or sexist views but I'm pretty sure none of them are posting in this thread.

 

[Divvy]

The money you spend on this game goes towards the developers who worked long and hard to create a fantastic piece of software in addition to those who created the technology. That Card piece of shit had nothing to do with the creation of this software.

Giving a dollar to a guy preaching intolerance is completely f*cking different from spending money on a product that is very loosely connected with a single asshole.

Quite frankly, some of the people in this thread seem more concerned with making a statement (that will piss some folks off) than ACTUALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE. You're not convincing anyone to support you with this kind of talk, you know. These kinds of misguided attempts push those not directly connected to the issue away.

Most of us AREN'T trying to convince any support or making some sort of social stand at all. This is a personal decision on how a consumer wishes to spend their money. It is completely up to them. If they don't want their money going to Card even though the chances of making a difference are slim to none, then that's their prerogative.

 

[Yoritomo]

Round and round we go.

If we ever stopped the thread would end. We can't have that.

 

[woodypop]

So he's like an old person. Old people don't like other people's rights. They were a huge factor in Jim Crow Era segregation and modern LGBT issues. We should boycott old people or start carousel.

Y'know, our viewpoints on this topic may be different, but thumbs up on that reference. :lol

 

[Sneds]

It is kind of amazing how many people really want you to play, wait I mean buy, shadow complex even if you have to compromise your beliefs on something important to you.

It's like, I know you're a vegetarian, but this hamburger is so. amazing. oh my god. In the grand scale, it's not like one hamburger is going to affect anything.

I know you're abstinent, but really, but one or two or twenty thrusts isn't going to change anything! Your beliefs are silly and you should just get on all fours now.

I know you're Jewish, but take a bite out of that fucking pig!

Exactly. I actively avoid eating meat, drinking milk etc, because of my own morality. I know that ultimately as an individual the loss of income for the farming industry is minute, but it's a personal belief.

Not wanting to fund a homophobe (however minute his take of the game's profits) is still a valid reason for not buying the game, despite it not actually making a big difference overall.

 

[Cheesemeister]

I clicked on this thread thinking there was a rational reason for boycotting this game. I was wrong.

No offense or anything, but refusing to buy a game because you know one person out of dozens or hundreds associated with the project holds views opposed to yours is pretty mean-spirited... Yet you want people that hold such views to be more open and accepting.

Think of how much we could accomplish if we made friends with our enemies. Lead by example, no?

 

[KHarvey16]

If we ever stopped the thread would end. We can't have that.

We? You got a mouse in your pocket? The motor spinning this wheel is ignorance and stupidity.

 

[Huevos de Oro]

What a thorny and difficult issue. Christian Nutt at Gamasutra wrote an opinion piece on it (and this thread) today. Sorry if already posted, thread moves very fast.

Both sides' perspectives have their fair share of reason and validity within them, and I sincerely doubt neither is going to be able to convince the other one; the sad thing is that what seems to be an amazing, outstanding game, crafted by a very talented developer team might suffer because of this.

 

[Yoritomo]

We? You got a mouse in your pocket? The motor spinning this wheel is ignorance and stupidity.

Gaf speaks as one. Until this is resolved this thread must continue.

 

[Drinky Crow]

it's the re5 furor all over again, with children who place entertainment options over political principles on one side, and the adults on the other.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That would be awesome if there were any consistency in the crap being spewed in this thread.

Maybe Card is a deserving scapegoat for the modern plight of LGBT equality in modern America, but to be completely fair you're going to have to wait for more religions to shrink and old people to die before things change drastically. The question then is Card's association with Shadow Complex enough for the developers to suffer the wrath of the GAF LGBT rainbow coalition's boycott, my basic opinion is that it is not.

I'm sure there are some pure righteous equal rights holders of merit here on gaf who have consistently boycotted games that had anyone with any bigotry in their bones or express any racist or sexist views but I'm pretty sure none of them are posting in this thread.

Who said I had any expectation it would make a big difference? Who said I had any expectation it would make any difference? I have 70ish posts in this thread saying otherwise.

I just want to be sure my money is not going somewhere I don't want it to. In this case, it stays with me instead of possibly going to the National Organization of Marriage or the Mormon Church of Nevada or any other anti-gay marriage organization. Is it going to make any difference in the long run that my money isn't going to them? Hell no. But it makes a difference to me, I could give a fuck what anyone else thinks about the scale of my decisions.

What I am tired of, however, is all these people running around with their heads cut off screaming "You're not making a big difference, you fools! Relent! Relent!" Where and when I make my purchasing decisions based on what I want to do with my money is my decision and unfortunately the involvement of Card is a dealbreaker for me. Trying to get me to change my mind by mocking that belief isn't really productive.

 

[Yoritomo]

Is the game any good? I haven't bought it yet.

 

[kamorra]

We? You got a mouse in your pocket? The motor spinning this wheel is ignorance and stupidity.

On both sides?

 

[jay]

I clicked on this thread thinking there was a rational reason for boycotting this game. I was wrong.

No offense or anything, but refusing to buy a game because you know one person out of dozens or hundreds associated with the project holds views opposed to yours is pretty mean-spirited... Yet you want people that hold such views to be more open and accepting.

Think of how much we could accomplish if we made friends with our enemies. Lead by example, no?

Hey look, someone who didn't read the thread.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I clicked on this thread thinking there was a rational reason for boycotting this game. I was wrong.

No offense or anything, but refusing to buy a game because you know one person out of dozens or hundreds associated with the project holds views opposed to yours is pretty mean-spirited... Yet you want people that hold such views to be more open and accepting.

Think of how much we could accomplish if we made friends with our enemies. Lead by example, no?

Cheese, you usually do better research than this.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Hey look, someone who didn't read the thread.

It's 33 pages, and thank you for the warm welcome.

Cheese, you usually do better research than this.

The portion of your proceeds going to Card by buying this game is going to be a lot less than the portion of an investment that would go towards alcohol/tobacco/oil etc. when buying into a managed fund.

Boycotting over a sliver of a penny out of spite when asking for acceptance seems odd to me.

 

[kamorra]

it's the re5 furor all over again, with children who place entertainment options over political principles on one side, and the adults on the other.

So it's all about the age? Aren't adults the only ones able to vote for their

Spoiler

gay

rights?

 

[KHarvey16]

it's the re5 furor all over again, with children who place entertainment options over political principles on one side, and the adults on the other.

I don't think it's the same in this case.

(edited for misreading!)

 

[RubberJohnny]

I'm boycotting Shadow Complex, but only because TrialsHD is the better game, and it's the underdog that needs your dollars. You lot keep on fighting for the game with a big marketing budget and a slot at an E3 keynote.

 

[jay]

it's the re5 furor all over again, with children who place entertainment options over political principles on one side, and the adults on the other.

It's so odd to not despise something you post.

 

[HiResDes]

I'm an extremely liberal guy, but even I realize that sometimes a person's art or talent can overshadow or completely transcend all of their human flaws. Wagner was a great composer, GG Allin was a decent enough punk rock singer until he went solo and batshit insane...Picasso was a womanizer, and MLK was adulterous , etc...What I'm saying is that you can dislike a person or what they stand for, and yet still recognize their talents simultaneously.

 

[woodypop]

What a thorny and difficult issue. Christian Nutt at Gamasutra wrote an opinion piece on it (and this thread) today. Sorry if already posted, thread moves very fast.

Thanks for posting the link.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's 33 pages, and thank you for the warm welcome.

Condensed version:

- Card can have all the opinions he wants, but he works as a board member for the National Organization for Marriage. You may know the best for the "Gathering Storm" ad where they insist SSM will lead to a destruction of your lfiestyle by forcing your marriage to end. He is also a vocal and significant contributor to anti-gay marriage movements across the country, most infamously for his campaigns against proposition 8. That stuff takes money, money Card makes from his books, his website, and other freelance work.

- Even if I don't want to censor his opinions, they are fucking vile. He believes most homosexuals were products of rape or sexual abuse, and it's like they'll indoctrinate children the same way. He believes churches should excommunicate homosexuals, likens gay parents to child abusers in terms of viability for adoption, and thinks homosexuals just need to start fucking the opposite sex to snap themselves out of it. Sometimes an opinion is more than enough to keep you from buying something associated with someone.

 

[jay]

I'm an extremely liberal guy, but even I realize that sometimes a person's art or talent can overshadow or completely transcend all of their human flaws. Wagner was a great composer, GG Allin was a decent enough punk rock singer until he went solo and batshit insane, Picasso was a womanizer, MLK was adulterous, etc.

And Jon Nödtveidt was a murderer. That's not the point. OSC is alive right now campaigning against something important to a lot of people. Picasso didn't campaign to keep women in the kitchen.

 

[Divvy]

What a thorny and difficult issue. Christian Nutt at Gamasutra wrote an opinion piece on it (and this thread) today. Sorry if already posted, thread moves very fast.

Both sides' perspectives have their fair share of reason and validity within them, and I sincerely doubt neither is going to be able to convince the other one; the sad thing is that what seems to be an amazing, outstanding game, crafted by a very talented developer team might suffer because of this.

Good read. Good to see some decent discussion about this subject in a major outlet.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Condensed version:

Sometimes an opinion is more than enough to keep you from buying something associated with someone.

Thank you for the summary, but you've presented a pretty one-sided evaluation of a debate supposedly involving two or more perspectives on the issue.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The portion of your proceeds going to Card by buying this game is going to be a lot less than the portion of an investment that would go towards alcohol/tobacco/oil etc. when buying into a managed fund.

Boycotting over a sliver of a penny out of spite when asking for acceptance seems odd to me.

Outline the tobacco/alcohol/oil thing for me as clearly as you can and I'll heavily consider my purchasing decisions about it in the future. This is not a shadow group, though. This is a game that clearly associates itself with Card, an entertainment product that will at best survive for a month in my mind before it is completely forgotten.

I don't want to play a five hour game in exchange for knowingly supplying a money, no matter how minuscule, to the anti-gay marriage movement.

 

[KHarvey16]

I'm an extremely liberal guy, but even I realize that sometimes a person's art or talent can overshadow or completely transcend all of their human flaws. Wagner was a great composer, GG Allin was a decent enough punk rock singer until he went solo and batshit insane, Picasso was a womanizer, MLK was adulterous, etc...What I'm saying is that you dislike a person or what they stand, and yet still recognize their talents simultaneously.

I think we need to be clear that this is a perfectly acceptable position. Anyone can come to the decision to buy the game if they choose to do so and I for one won't deride them for it. What's so frustrating is the outright dismissal of the issue by some as stupid or silly.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Thank you for the summary, but you've presented a pretty one-sided evaluation of a debate supposedly involving two or more perspectives on the issue.

I'm not a news source, I was explaining my position.

 

[Big-E]

On both sides?

Only one side is being ignorant.

 

[Yoritomo]

What I am tired of, however, is all these people running around with their heads cut off screaming "You're not making a big difference, you fools! Relent! Relent!" Where and when I make my purchasing decisions based on what I want to do with my money is my decision and unfortunately the involvement of Card is a dealbreaker for me. Trying to get me to change my mind by mocking that belief isn't really productive.

My opinion is that Card is a douche. He's a pro-war bigot who has a gift for writing. In this case however you're not boycotting a book, or even something he scripted. You're boycotting a game based on his tangential relationship to the world it is based in. At this point you might as well boycott the Secret of Monkey Island. He did some writing for that as well.

 

[HiResDes]

And Jon Nödtveidt was a murderer. That's not the point. OSC is alive right now campaigning against something important to a lot of people. Picasso didn't campaign to keep women in the kitchen.

While you make a good point, I just think there are better ways of fighting this fight than boycotting a game devoid of any anti-homosexual propaganda.

 

[poppabk]

Only one side is being ignorant.

Anyone who thinks there are only two sides is being ignorant.

 

[Yackie]

I know this has been said in this thread probably multiple times, but a point a lot of people are missing is that its not only about the money OSC might be getting from this game, etc. Its ALSO the fact that Chair seems to have a suspiciously close relationship with OSC, they sought him out to work with on this project, and people do not want to encourage or support that. By boycotting this game it would be sending a message to Chair that we do not accept or condone this relationship with OSC, a known bigot, and we will not support a developer who accepts and would seek out a collaboration with such a person.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

My opinion is that Card is a douche. He's a pro-war bigot who has a gift for writing. In this case however you're not boycotting a book, or even something he scripted. You're boycotting a game based on his tangential relationship to the world it is based in. At this point you might as well boycott the Secret of Monkey Island. He did some writing for that as well.

I haven't purchased that, either, but I've never been a huge P&C adventure fan.

 

[HiResDes]

Anyone who thinks there are only two sides is being ignorant.

You just summed up at least 2/3s of America.

 

[jay]

While you make a good point, I just think there are better ways of fighting this fight than boycotting a game devoid of any anti-homosexual propaganda.

That's completely fine, I am not sure if I will boycott the game. As mentioned, the point isn't to make sure everyone agrees as much as to let people know what people object to.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Outline the tobacco/alcohol/oil thing for me as clearly as you can and I'll heavily consider my purchasing decisions about it in the future.

I don't claim to be an investment adviser, but consider that Exxon and Phillip Morris (Altria) are among the largest companies in the US. Keep in mind when investing that unless a fund specifically excludes certain sectors, fund managers are out to make money, not uphold principles.