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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?

dead souls

Member
Jan 7, 2007
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Wizman23 said:
For all you "heroes" that boycotted you all realize the hundreds, if not thousands of purchases for this game because of this thread right? 2 huge threads on the front page of GAF for Shadow Complex for at least the past 5 days mean big sales. I'm not talking about the people who claim to buy more copies in spite of this thread either. I'm talking about the uninformed 360 owner who never heard of this game, saw this thread, downloaded the trial, and then immediately purchased it. OP made Chair a ton of $$. Congrats.

You vastly overestimate the influence of GAF if you think two threads equals thousands of more sales of a game.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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Wizman23 said:
For all you "heroes" that boycotted you all realize the hundreds, if not thousands of purchases for this game because of this thread right? 2 huge threads on the front page of GAF for Shadow Complex for at least the past 5 days mean big sales. I'm not talking about the people who claim to buy more copies in spite of this thread either. I'm talking about the uninformed 360 owner who never heard of this game, saw this thread, downloaded the trial, and then immediately purchased it. OP made Chair a ton of $$. Congrats.
Awesome, good for them. I hope those people enjoy the game.
 
Nov 29, 2007
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KHarvey16 said:
I don't know how much he's being paid or was paid. If he wasn't receiving anything I assume they would have let us know.

The fact we disagree isn't enough. I disagree with a lot of people, and I'm sure they make games too. It's an AND type of equation, we disagree AND he has the ability and motivation to influence things in a way many people cannot. My goal is to not give OSC any of my money and not buying this game is absolute assurance of that.

So your boycott is financial, in that you want to make sure none of your money goes to OSC, but yet you don't actually know how OSC has been paid for his involvement in the game, correct?

Now, he could certainly be getting a cut for each game sold. Quite a few authors get royalties from book sales. Games are no different.

OR, for all we know, he could have been paid in one large sum at the beginning, which means he doesn't receive a percentage of any of the actual game sales.

If it's the former, then your boycott is certainly logical. A certain amount of the money you would pay for Shadow Complex is certainly going to OSC.

However, if it's the latter, seems to me that your boycott really isn't functioning correctly at all.

To be fair, even I don't know how the finances worked there, but then again, I'm not the one boycotting, so it's not really my responsibility to make sure all the facts are known before pursuing any action. And since your boycott is financial, how OSC was paid is a pretty important fact.
 

Askani

Member
Oct 30, 2007
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The Blue Jihad said:
However, if it's the latter, seems to me that your boycott really isn't functioning correctly at all.

If he was paid in advance one lump sum, then no...the boycott won't help stop money going to OSC now. It should have an extra effect of making Chair reconsider working with OSC on future products. If there is enough backlash now about this game that they decide not to work with him again then he gets $0 dollars in the future. No future money at all is probably a better outcome than just diminished sales now.
 

Pepto

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Jan 7, 2009
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it's not really my responsibility to make sure all the facts are known before pursuing any action.
I think it would be great if people read the thread before replying.
 

Asmodai

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Jan 22, 2009
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Dammit, will people ever stop bumping this thread?

Oh, and Shadow Complex is apparently number 8 on the Top Ten xbox live played games list.

Boycott harder! It's not working! :lol
 

xxjuicesxx

Member
Jan 20, 2008
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Asmodai said:
Dammit, will people ever stop bumping this thread?

Oh, and Shadow Complex is apparently number 8 on the Top Ten xbox live played games list.

Boycott harder! It's not working! :lol

Only 8? Maybe it is working, the game is really good I thought it would be much higher up.
 
Nov 29, 2007
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Askani said:
If he was paid in advance one lump sum, then no...the boycott won't help stop money going to OSC now. It should have an extra effect of making Chair reconsider working with OSC on future products. If there is enough backlash now about this game that they decide not to work with him again then he gets $0 dollars in the future. No future money at all is probably a better outcome than just diminished sales now.

Even though I'm trying to focus on one poster for the sake of having a consistent discussion, you bring up an interesting point.

Okay, like you said, the reason behind the boycott tends to fall apart if OSC was paid up-front, rather than percentage royalties. In that scenario, he's already received his money, the money wasn't coming from any of us, and any actual sales of SC go directly to Chair. So there, immediately, would be no concern at all for anyone's SC money being used by OSC for whatever his nefarious plans would be.

But now, in that case, what happens with the boycott? If the original motivation for boycotting the game was to keep your money out of OSC's hands, but OSC is actually out of the picture, financially, there is no reason to continue boycotting the game. So why continue the boycott?

You seem to be suggesting the boycott could be further used to put financial pressure on Chair themselves to drop OSC. Why? Chair was never truly part of your moral offense, right? As far as I can tell, the boycott was due to a fear of OSC. I'd wager that Chair really had nothing to do with it.

So why continue the boycott when it's truly going to only hurt the developer?

Further, would Chair even know why sales of their game underperformed? Would they even know of the presumed backlash?
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Dec 1, 2004
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ShockingAlberto said:
I can be happy right now that my money isn't going to a despicable cause, other people can enjoy a game they like, and eventually bigots like Card and his ilk will be marginalized if not just completely condemned by our children.
what was the despicable cause again? the game company making more games, or orson scott card donating paycheck money to questionable orginizations?

edit: and just like itxaka....if you want to donate a spare copy to someone else, i'd be more than happy to take one of your hands :D
 

itxaka

Defeatist
Feb 21, 2007
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hey guys if some of you buy six copies of the game to prove whatever the point you are doing just sent me one ok? No need to thrown money away when there is a lot of people not able to buy the game.

kthankbye
 

Askani

Member
Oct 30, 2007
6,073
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The Blue Jihad said:
Even though I'm trying to focus on one poster for the sake of having a consistent discussion, you bring up an interesting point.

Okay, like you said, the reason behind the boycott tends to fall apart if OSC was paid up-front, rather than percentage royalties. In that scenario, he's already received his money, the money wasn't coming from any of us, and any actual sales of SC go directly to Chair. So there, immediately, would be no concern at all for anyone's SC money being used by OSC for whatever his nefarious plans would be.

But now, in that case, what happens with the boycott? If the original motivation for boycotting the game was to keep your money out of OSC's hands, but OSC is actually out of the picture, financially, there is no reason to continue boycotting the game. So why continue the boycott?

I believe we actually agree. I'm not for the boycott. Really, I just made the comment I did because I could see an argument being made by the boycott side of "keep going so Chair doesn't work with Card in the future". As you mentioned though, we don't know how he was paid and, really, we have no way or finding out unless Card or Chair comes out and says "this is how we handled the money." With that question still up in the air, they basically have 50/50 odds it hurts him financially now and also get the bonus of hurting him financially in the future. Beyond that, if it was shown it wasn't hurting him financially, I don't know what would be a good reason to continue the boycott.

The Blue Jihad said:
You seem to be suggesting the boycott could be further used to put financial pressure on Chair themselves to drop OSC. Why? Chair was never truly part of your moral offense, right? As far as I can tell, the boycott was due to a fear of OSC. I'd wager that Chair really had nothing to do with it.

So why continue the boycott when it's truly going to only hurt the developer?

Putting aside the "moral offense" part of your post since I'm not part of the boycott team, why wouldn't you? If your goal is to hurt Card financially, and you can't touch him directly, you have to do it indirectly. You have to go after the people who support him i.e: book publishers, book retailers, game companies, etc. Some unintended people may get hurt, but it's the "if you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs" mentality. Also I think that action is getting somehow justified to some people because "Working with Card = supporting what he stands for". So it's "okay" to hurt them.

The Blue Jihad said:
Further, would Chair even know why sales of their game underperformed? Would they even know of the presumed backlash?

I imagine that they would and would be able to come up with some estimate about how much this did or did not hurt them. I don't think they can not talk about it internally. That being said, I don't believe anything will happen and they will just continue with whatever plans they have to work with him. Any lost sales they receive won't be enough to make it unprofitable enough to quit pursuing relations with Card.

Actually, to me, this whole boycott discussion is more relevant if Chair is still working on the Battle Room game from Ender's Game. If you are going to choose a game to crusade against, in my opinion, it would be the one that features his flagship work and is more likely to earn him royalties.
 

Asmodai

Banned
Jan 22, 2009
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xxjuicesxx said:
Only 8? Maybe it is working, the game is really good I thought it would be much higher up.

XBLA titles rarely get that high on the top ten. Battlefield 1943 was one of the few to reach number 5, and it dropped off fast.
 

Uffe

Member
Apr 5, 2006
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Umea
I did just read about this and have already bought the game so the idea of giving money to a gay charity will be my solution.

But as a Swede I dont have any overview of the US gay charity organizations. Could anyone list a couple of differnt?
 

McBacon

SHOOTY McRAD DICK
Mar 7, 2006
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duckroll said:
I have decided that I will boycott the sequel unless they create better bosses. :eek:

The best one is the one you never even shoot :p

But I think that would have been better if you had to make it shoot the pipes with its own rockets. I think they missed a good opportunity there.
 

duckroll

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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McBacon said:
The best one is the one you never even shoot :p

But I think that would have been better if you had to make it shoot the pipes with its own rockets. I think they missed a good opportunity there.

All the bosses are basically missed opportunities if you ask me. Most of them had pretty good introductions and the encounter was set up in an exciting way. It's just the actual boss battle design which sucked. None of them were fun to fight, and pretty much all the bosses could be easily defeated by throwing 10 grenades or shooting 10 missiles. Such a disappointment!
 

KevinCow

Banned
Oct 6, 2007
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McBacon said:
The best one is the one you never even shoot :p

But I think that would have been better if you had to make it shoot the pipes with its own rockets. I think they missed a good opportunity there.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the rolling one.
Speed boost into it from behind = one hit kill.