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[J-Rod]

People are different, and some don't take to just a stern voice or bribery. Some need their butts whooped.

And some of these alternative solutions are just so impractical it is hilarious. "Oh, we can just make sure there is a PHD level teacher for every ten kids, and all the facilities are made of gold, all the classwork is fun, none of the children come from poor or broken homes, ect." If it is that easy, someone please hit the switch.


Seriously, if you raise children into thinking nothing is their fault then they will be mediocre at best. If you believe everything is the fault of the misfortunate environment you are a victim of, and none of your own, how can you ever improve your situation by yourself?

 

[Panda Bear]

Escalation. We buy canes, they buy armor piercing rounds...

 

[gohepcat]

If you need to hit your kid...you have already failed.

"it worked for me!"
Did it really though?

 

[WedgeX]

With all due respect, and whilst I am hesitant to draw use any conclusive language, suggesting that "instilling" respect does not work is not true or at least not accurate in this context. For impressionable young people who struggle to understand authority being firm with them can sometimes lead to positive results. At the same time, it may not affect their behaviour or it could even worsen it. Either way you cannot claim that using corporal punishment is destructive anymore than I could claim it is constructive

I can, and can back it up.

http://www.radford.edu/~junnever/articles/sweden.pdf

The findings reported here indicate that Swedish youth have not become more unruly, undersocialized, or self-destructive following the passage of the 1979 corporal punishment ban. In fact, most measures demonstrated a substantial improvement in youth well-being.
...
As predicted by the findings of many studies demonstrating the relationship between corporal punishment and negative developmental outcome (Gershoff, 2000; Straus, 1994), such shifts in parental attitudes and behaviors have been followed not by chaos, but by improved functioning among Swedish youth.​

It is used disproportionately against those with learning disabilities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/education/11punish.html

The report, based on federal Department of Education data, said that of the 223,190 public school students nationwide who were paddled during the 2006-7 school year, at least 41,972, or about 19 percent, were students with disabilities, who make up 14 percent of all students.​

Banning corporal punishment of children
Sureshrani Paintal. Childhood Education. Olney: Fall 1999. Vol. 76, Iss. 1; pg. 36, 4 pgs

Consequences of Corporal Punishment

Accumulated research supports the theory that corporal punishment is an ineffective discipline strategy with children of all ages and, furthermore, that it is often dangerous. Corporal punishment most often produces in its victims anger, resentment, and low self-esteem. It teaches violence and revenge as solutions to problems, and perpetuates itself, as children imitate what they see adults doing. Research substantiates the following consequences of corporal punishment:

* Children whose parents use corporal punishment to control antisocial behavior show more antisocial behavior themselves over a long period of time, regardless of race and socioeconomic status, and regardless of whether the mother provides cognitive stimulation and emotional support (Gunnoe & Mariner, 1997; Kazdin, 1987; Patterson, DeBaryshe, & Ramsey,1989; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims,1997).

* A consistent pattern of physical abuse exists that generally starts as corporal punishment, and then gets out of control (Kadushin & Martin, 1981; Straus & Yodanis, 1994).

* Adults who were hit as children are more likely to be depressed or violent themselves (Berkowitz, 1993; Strassberg, Dodge, Pettit, & Bates,1994; Straus,1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus & Kantor, 1992).

* The more a child is hit, the more likely it is that the child, when an adult, will hit his or her children, spouse, or friends (Julian & McKenry, 1993; Straus, 1991; Straus, 1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus 8r Gelles,1990; Straus 8z Kantor, 1992; Widom, 1989; Wolfe, 1987).

* Corporal punishment increases the probability of children assaulting the parent in retaliation, especially as they grow older (Brezina, 1998).

* Corporal punishment sends a message to the child that violence is a viable option for solving problems (Straus, Gelles, & Steinmetz, 1980; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).

* Corporal punishment is degrading, contributes to feelings of helplessness and humiliation, robs a child of self-worth and self-respect, and can lead to withdrawal or aggression (Sternberg et al., 1993; Straus, 1994).

* Corporal punishment erodes trust between a parent and a child, and increases the risk of child abuse; as a discipline measure, it simply does not decrease children's aggressive or delinquent behaviors (Straus, 1994).

* Children who get spanked regularly are more likely over time to cheat or lie, be disobedient at school, bully others, and show less remorse for wrongdoing (Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).

* Corporal punishment adversely affects children's cognitive development. Children who are spanked perform poorly on school tasks compared to other children (Straus & Mathur, 1995; Straus & Paschall, 1998).​

And more resources in case you are curious about it's effects.

Greven, P. 1991. Spare the child: The religious roots of punishment and the psychological impact of physical abuse. New York: Random House.

Straus, M., and D. Donnelly. 1993. Beating the devil out of them: corporal punishment in American families. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass.

Males, M. 1996. The scapegoat generation: America's war on adolescents. Monroe, Mass.: Common Courage Press.​

I'm serious about you looking up how behavior management is currently taught to future teachers in college. It works. It will undoubtedly change as the understanding of development continues, but it is far better than corporal punishment.

There is a huge difference in being "firm" and employing classroom behavior management techniques to reinforce a teacher's control of the class, and employing violence to achieve that end.

Read up.

 

[gohepcat]

I can, and can back it up.

Barrage of well researched studies

"bu bu bu...it worked for me?"

 

[Mama Robotnik]

I can, and can back it up.

http://www.radford.edu/~junnever/articles/sweden.pdf

The findings reported here indicate that Swedish youth have not become more unruly, undersocialized, or self-destructive following the passage of the 1979 corporal punishment ban. In fact, most measures demonstrated a substantial improvement in youth well-being.
...
As predicted by the findings of many studies demonstrating the relationship between corporal punishment and negative developmental outcome (Gershoff, 2000; Straus, 1994), such shifts in parental attitudes and behaviors have been followed not by chaos, but by improved functioning among Swedish youth.​

It is used disproportionately against those with learning disabilities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/education/11punish.html

The report, based on federal Department of Education data, said that of the 223,190 public school students nationwide who were paddled during the 2006-7 school year, at least 41,972, or about 19 percent, were students with disabilities, who make up 14 percent of all students.​

Banning corporal punishment of children
Sureshrani Paintal. Childhood Education. Olney: Fall 1999. Vol. 76, Iss. 1; pg. 36, 4 pgs

Consequences of Corporal Punishment

Accumulated research supports the theory that corporal punishment is an ineffective discipline strategy with children of all ages and, furthermore, that it is often dangerous. Corporal punishment most often produces in its victims anger, resentment, and low self-esteem. It teaches violence and revenge as solutions to problems, and perpetuates itself, as children imitate what they see adults doing. Research substantiates the following consequences of corporal punishment:

* Children whose parents use corporal punishment to control antisocial behavior show more antisocial behavior themselves over a long period of time, regardless of race and socioeconomic status, and regardless of whether the mother provides cognitive stimulation and emotional support (Gunnoe & Mariner, 1997; Kazdin, 1987; Patterson, DeBaryshe, & Ramsey,1989; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims,1997).

* A consistent pattern of physical abuse exists that generally starts as corporal punishment, and then gets out of control (Kadushin & Martin, 1981; Straus & Yodanis, 1994).

* Adults who were hit as children are more likely to be depressed or violent themselves (Berkowitz, 1993; Strassberg, Dodge, Pettit, & Bates,1994; Straus,1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus & Kantor, 1992).

* The more a child is hit, the more likely it is that the child, when an adult, will hit his or her children, spouse, or friends (Julian & McKenry, 1993; Straus, 1991; Straus, 1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus 8r Gelles,1990; Straus 8z Kantor, 1992; Widom, 1989; Wolfe, 1987).

* Corporal punishment increases the probability of children assaulting the parent in retaliation, especially as they grow older (Brezina, 1998).

* Corporal punishment sends a message to the child that violence is a viable option for solving problems (Straus, Gelles, & Steinmetz, 1980; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).

* Corporal punishment is degrading, contributes to feelings of helplessness and humiliation, robs a child of self-worth and self-respect, and can lead to withdrawal or aggression (Sternberg et al., 1993; Straus, 1994).

* Corporal punishment erodes trust between a parent and a child, and increases the risk of child abuse; as a discipline measure, it simply does not decrease children's aggressive or delinquent behaviors (Straus, 1994).

* Children who get spanked regularly are more likely over time to cheat or lie, be disobedient at school, bully others, and show less remorse for wrongdoing (Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).

* Corporal punishment adversely affects children's cognitive development. Children who are spanked perform poorly on school tasks compared to other children (Straus & Mathur, 1995; Straus & Paschall, 1998).​

And more resources in case you are curious about it's effects.

Greven, P. 1991. Spare the child: The religious roots of punishment and the psychological impact of physical abuse. New York: Random House.

Straus, M., and D. Donnelly. 1993. Beating the devil out of them: corporal punishment in American families. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass.

Males, M. 1996. The scapegoat generation: America's war on adolescents. Monroe, Mass.: Common Courage Press.​

I'm serious about you looking up how behavior management is currently taught to future teachers in college. It works. It will undoubtedly change as the understanding of development continues, but it is far better than corporal punishment.

There is a huge difference in being "firm" and employing classroom behavior management techniques to reinforce a teacher's control of the class, and employing violence to achieve that end.

Read up.

Thank you. I hope your efforts and the presented evidence challenge the some of the short-sighted viewpoints in this thread.

Spoiler

It wont change anything, unfortunately.

 

[Kinitari]

"bu bu bu...it worked for me?"

I know you are being silly, but sincerely this is basically what it boils down to - "Back in my day" anecdotes. But more than that, implying that this method is very ineffective also puts some people on the defensive on behalf of their parents, no one likes having it implied that their parents raised them poorly (which may or may not be the case).

On a side note, a lot of these anecdotal stories I hear about people being physically disciplined growing up go something like "Man, I was an absolute terror growing up, in my teen years I was even worse - spray painting walls, getting into fights, even getting thrown into jail! I needed those butt whoopings" - whenever I read/hear those stories I am like "Well it sounds to me like the whoopings did shit all"

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

From personal experience, I have seen teachers being kicked down the stairs, teachers leaving classrooms with blood gashing from their head - teachers crying in the middle of class, some even quitting because of the emotional abuse they've had from kids.

Yeah, I've had that. This is slightly off the main topic but we had some outsiders bring a machete to school and our vice principal got slashed on the face as if he was a typical villain. As far as I know as well, the attackers had a beef with just one kid, not a gang of kids so they could've just waited him out or something.

I've been grabbed by the scruff of the neck and pinned against a wall for being a bit too snarky towards a teacher before.

 

[WEGGLES]

Wtf no.

I don't know where you live but I've never seen teachers beaten up, or hit or anything like that. Sure they can be disrespected from time to time, but who isnt?

Maybe you don't need the cane in schools, but instead parents need to teach respect and good behaviour. (And not with their fists)

 

[KHarvey16]

I don't think people are trying to say corporal punishment can never work. What I think the main point to take away is that corporal punishment is never the absolute best option and in some cases can have very bad consequences.

"It worked for me" is not a viable counter-point here.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I say do it.

You send some kid home for discipline problems, but if he is going home to a parent who doesn't give a shit, did you accomplish anything? Sure you can boot him out of school which solves the teacher's problems, but as a society you created another statistic. Maybe smacking them around will help them straighten out even with their shitty home situation. Worth a shot imo.

 

[gohepcat]

I know you are being silly, but sincerely this is basically what it boils down to - "Back in my day" anecdotes. But more than that, implying that this method is very ineffective also puts some people on the defensive on behalf of their parents, no one likes having it implied that their parents raised them poorly (which may or may not be the case).

On a side note, a lot of these anecdotal stories I hear about people being physically disciplined growing up go something like "Man, I was an absolute terror growing up, in my teen years I was even worse - spray painting walls, getting into fights, even getting thrown into jail! I needed those butt whoopings" - whenever I read/hear those stories I am like "Well it sounds to me like the whoopings did shit all"

Yea I hear you. My parents hit, but they were very old school and didn't know any better.

 

[Door2Dawn]

If you need to hit your kid...you have already failed.

"it worked for me!"
Did it really though?

Why yes. Yes it did.

 

[laserbeam]

The problem is as others have stated th fact Parents do not want to be Parents anymore its all about being friends and cool.

Should be quite telling that 50-60 years ago the type of behavior thats becoming normal now would never have been heard of and certainly never allowed to continue if someone dared to act out in this way.

Society has moved in a directino where disciplining a child for their behavior is now bad.

Discipline needs to be restored at Home and in Society.

 

[Kinitari]

The problem is as others have stated th fact Parents do not want to be Parents anymore its all about being friends and cool.

Should be quite telling that 50-60 years ago the type of behavior thats becoming normal now would never have been heard of and certainly never allowed to continue if someone dared to act out in this way.

Society has moved in a directino where disciplining a child for their behavior is now bad.

Discipline needs to be restored at Home and in Society.

Some quick questions.

Why do you think that kids weren't punks 50-60 years ago?

What makes you think that beating them is going to fix the situation - other than the "Back in the day kids new raspact!" argument you seem to be espousing?

What makes you think the kids that are acting up at school are NOT the ones being physically* disciplined at home?

 

[laserbeam]

Some quick questions.

Why do you think that kids weren't punks 50-60 years ago?

What makes you think that beating them is going to fix the situation - other than the "Back in the day kids new raspact!" argument you seem to be espousing?

What makes you think the kids that are acting up at school are NOT the ones being physically* disciplined at home?

Kids in the past did not have parents tryng to be their best friend. The mentality used to be they will thanks us when they are older for keeping them on the right path.

Well the record speaks for itself for centuries being a jackass meant you were gonna be punished in some way and the record shows Youth for the most part kept themselves under control.

Since the 60s there has been a constant downwardspiral and interestingly enough the Generation that started the spiral is also the same one speaking out against disciplining children in prettymuch any fashion.

 

[Jasup]

Society has moved in a directino where disciplining a child for their behavior is now bad.

No-one said you shouldn't discipline if it's appropriate in the situation. But using discipline as main method in upbringing is bad, ineffective and counter productive.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Shrug.

I remember when I was in 4th grade (that's ten years old under whatever educational plan was at the time [my country changes educational plans every new administration]), we were taught mainly Calculus during Math classes. We had about 15 minutes of exposition per class, followed by 45 minutes of "live Calculus", where we sat with our hands on the table and the teacher went student by student asking us to perform a calculation mentally. 10 seconds without answer, bam bam! wooden ruler to the fingers. You know what? even the guys who always failed math passed exams that year.

In stark contrast our music teacher used the cane just to make someone shut up or to add an additonal level of punishment to those guys he expelled from class for bad behaviour. School gave him the boot.

I'm 29, by the way. Not talking about 50's schools.

You see, here's the problem: the cane works but there's so many goddamned schools, so many goddamned teachers and so many goddamned students it's effectively impossible to monitor its use.

So either we live in a zero discipline world where's no punishment at all for rash behaviour or we potentially expose children to abusive personalities with a blunt object and hunger for some beating.

 

[chaostrophy]

Why don't schools just have security staff to protect the teachers from students? Teachers should just have buttons at their desks they can press to summon a guard if they feel physically threatened, that can restrain the student and protect the teacher without inflicting pain. Imparting information to kids, and defending yourself physically and psychologically from the bad ones, are such different roles that it doesn't make much sense for individual people to try to fill both of them.

 

[Joel Was Right]

You're ignoring the point over and over again. Let me write it for you in bold.

If a child does not respect the entire institution of education already, why would they respect a stick?

Or, more specific

Do you really think a punk aint gonna take a swing at a teacher just because they got a pussy little stick?

Exactly, and I think larger the point was to introduce a form of authority and discipline in school. Naturally little would affect kids that are old enough to do this which is why this policy of firmness would need to start young. And no that doesn't translate to bringing the cane into a class of young children.

Yes you can. It's called using data and facts, things you usually like to use when arguing a point.

And so that means everyone whom had corporal punishment as a kid and recognising that as a factor for learning discipline/respect is lying? It's clear that various ranges of parental discipline (the strict type) do have a positive impact into the child's development. But obviously this is all subjective and every child is different - it can have the opposite impact. However despite that fact I don't think its rational to argue that being a firm parent in this context is certain to have a negative impact on your child's development

It is absolutely brutal to read your tripe. You are so egotistical that when people post counters to your inane rambling you just breeze right over it. I've never seen you even intelligently acknowledge a counter argument.

How do you raise a good child?

Why not look at what successful people do, and what unsuccessful people do?

The latest studies indicate that the most important stage in human development is age 0-3. If you nurture curiosity, consistently discourage bad behavior and consistently encourage good behavior during that time, your job becomes MUCH easier for the next 16 years.

Poor people stay poor, successful people stay successful...why do you think this happens? Do you think that educated wealthy families hit their kids more often? Obviously not.

And it so happens to be beyond you to realise actually that I've consistently acknowledged of the counter points?

How you raise a good child is an interesting topic. If there was one particular solution in doing so, every parent would be practising and we'd have well behaved children in every corner of the world. In reality we don't. In reality some children develop well based on different parenting skills e.g. case in point those who learned with a smack. We can all list the potential negative impacts such parenting can have on children and there's no one here denying that. In fact I feel the reason why this is a popular debate is that in some cases corporal punishment does work as well.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in discipline for children. I'm not a huge advocate of the cane itself but leaning towards that direction of introducing a harder sense of authority with consequences is the right way to go.

Seriously people. All of the answers to these things are out there. Just look at the stats.

OP...you live in a shithole. Move somewhere nice and you will rarely see those things that you describe.

I live in London but the problem of anti-social youth behaviour is nationwide. Should every British person then migrate elsewhere, is that your solution? It can't stay the way it is. Something has to change. If a kid is bold enough and mature enough to threaten a teacher, he deserves a smack if not more. Pussy-footing around only reinforces their own arrogance and shatters the foundation of the education system; the teachers themselves.

At the end of it all, you need to ask yourself who here needs protection, foul mouthed abusive youths or those teachers

 

[Jasup]

I remember when I was in 4th grade (that's ten years old under whatever educational plan was at the time [my country changes educational plans every new administration]), we were taught mainly Calculus during Math classes. We had about 15 minutes of exposition per class, followed by 45 minutes of "live Calculus", where we sat with our hands on the table and the teacher went student by student asking us to perform a calculation mentally. 10 seconds without answer, bam bam! wooden ruler to the fingers. You know what? even the guys who always failed math passed exams that year.

Well I'll be, I take back everything I ever said against using physical punishment. It clearly is a godsent!

 

[Joel Was Right]

Some quick questions.

Why do you think that kids weren't punks 50-60 years ago?

What makes you think that beating them is going to fix the situation - other than the "Back in the day kids new raspact!" argument you seem to be espousing?

What makes you think the kids that are acting up at school are NOT the ones being physically* disciplined at home?

There is this stereotype that child behaviour towards parents differ on ethnicity because certain ethnic groups have more of a disciplinarian attitude towards their kids. For example, Hispanics, Africans and Asians. There is largely this sense of "beat the shit out him if he talks back to you".

I would guess that children in the 50's and 60's were scared crap out of their parents, short answer.

 

[Hilbert]

Kids actually got spanked when I was in grade school (early 80s), strangely enough it was always the same kid in my class. If it is so effective, why didn't he learn? And why did the kids who didn't get spanked act out?

 

[Kinitari]

Kids in the past did not have parents tryng to be their best friend. The mentality used to be they will thanks us when they are older for keeping them on the right path.

Well the record speaks for itself for centuries being a jackass meant you were gonna be punished in some way and the record shows Youth for the most part kept themselves under control.

Since the 60s there has been a constant downwardspiral and interestingly enough the Generation that started the spiral is also the same one speaking out against disciplining children in prettymuch any fashion.

First of all, this is just a generic observation made by you, I don't know if you want to use this in a serious argument. I could argue that kids in the past were on 'friendlier' terms (edit: with their parents) in general than kids now adays, what then?

Are you implying that hundreds of years ago, kids were more well behaved? Or just 50 years ago?

Since the 60's there have been what sort of constant downward spiral? Youth homicide? Youth non-violent crime? Youth assaulting teachers? What sort of downward spiral are you talking about? Do you think that at this point in time youth are 'worse' than they were 50 years ago? If so in what fashion?

Disciplining your children does not have to mean you hit them, ever, or that teachers hit them ever.

 

[KHarvey16]

Back in the old days kids were well behaved, politicians were noble and people were just plain nicer.

Also, twice as many water fountains.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

:lol
Maybe they should all just have drill sergeants in schools!

I don't think this security thing would fly as it's essentially the same thing. I'm sure even 'restraining' a student for being belligerent would cause a lawsuit. Of course, it always goes back to the teacher and how he/she wasn't able to 'handle' the students. Aren't there just some students who can't be 'handled?'

This whole caning thing reminds me of a debate I had with my former coworkers. They stated that teachers needed to educate students on ethics and morality and to help them become well-rounded people. I replied that teachers are NOT parents and are there to do a job. My point was, who's to say that what the teachers teach regarding morality and ethics is what the parents of all the students 'want'. Teachers should keep personal/religious/political opinions to themselves as far as I'm concerned when students are not adults. Whatever happened to parents DOING THEIR JOBS? How did this buck get passed to teachers? Since when was it a teacher's job to teach kids to be...good???

I think if the caning (or metaphorical 'raising') were done at home, it wouldn't need to be done at school. This isn't like Asia where parents are obsessed with grades and will bribe teachers and demand kids do well in class and to obey their teachers so that kids go to class respecting authority figures. As everyone has stated, teacher's have virtually no power when it comes to controlling kids in North America. Fail them? Can you nowadays with that stupid 'no child left behind' policy? Then there are kids who DON'T CARE about failing.

Sigh...of course, it always goes back to teachers. If the student didn't do well, then it's ALWAYS the teacher's fault. Never mind that the student isn't motivated to do work and has come to class late and hasn't done any homework.

 

[Bit-Bit]

I say we put shock collars on them. Anyone of them who speaks without first raising their hands and getting picked by the teacher will get shocked. Anyone of them get out of the line during the walk to the cafeteria will get shocked.

But seriously, when I was in middle school we would have cafeteria lock down. Meaning anyone who spoke during lunch would get detention. It was stupid as fuck. We would have to have our shirts tucked in at all times. No matter where we were we needed passes to be there. It was like an imprison camp or something.

 

[Joel Was Right]

I can, and can back it up.

http://www.radford.edu/~junnever/articles/sweden.pdf

The findings reported here indicate that Swedish youth have not become more unruly, undersocialized, or self-destructive following the passage of the 1979 corporal punishment ban. In fact, most measures demonstrated a substantial improvement in youth well-being.
...
As predicted by the findings of many studies demonstrating the relationship between corporal punishment and negative developmental outcome (Gershoff, 2000; Straus, 1994), such shifts in parental attitudes and behaviors have been followed not by chaos, but by improved functioning among Swedish youth.​

It is used disproportionately against those with learning disabilities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/education/11punish.html

The report, based on federal Department of Education data, said that of the 223,190 public school students nationwide who were paddled during the 2006-7 school year, at least 41,972, or about 19 percent, were students with disabilities, who make up 14 percent of all students.​

Banning corporal punishment of children
Sureshrani Paintal. Childhood Education. Olney: Fall 1999. Vol. 76, Iss. 1; pg. 36, 4 pgs

Consequences of Corporal Punishment

Accumulated research supports the theory that corporal punishment is an ineffective discipline strategy with children of all ages and, furthermore, that it is often dangerous. Corporal punishment most often produces in its victims anger, resentment, and low self-esteem. It teaches violence and revenge as solutions to problems, and perpetuates itself, as children imitate what they see adults doing. Research substantiates the following consequences of corporal punishment:

* Children whose parents use corporal punishment to control antisocial behavior show more antisocial behavior themselves over a long period of time, regardless of race and socioeconomic status, and regardless of whether the mother provides cognitive stimulation and emotional support (Gunnoe & Mariner, 1997; Kazdin, 1987; Patterson, DeBaryshe, & Ramsey,1989; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims,1997).

* A consistent pattern of physical abuse exists that generally starts as corporal punishment, and then gets out of control (Kadushin & Martin, 1981; Straus & Yodanis, 1994).

* Adults who were hit as children are more likely to be depressed or violent themselves (Berkowitz, 1993; Strassberg, Dodge, Pettit, & Bates,1994; Straus,1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus & Kantor, 1992).

* The more a child is hit, the more likely it is that the child, when an adult, will hit his or her children, spouse, or friends (Julian & McKenry, 1993; Straus, 1991; Straus, 1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus 8r Gelles,1990; Straus 8z Kantor, 1992; Widom, 1989; Wolfe, 1987).

* Corporal punishment increases the probability of children assaulting the parent in retaliation, especially as they grow older (Brezina, 1998).

* Corporal punishment sends a message to the child that violence is a viable option for solving problems (Straus, Gelles, & Steinmetz, 1980; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).

* Corporal punishment is degrading, contributes to feelings of helplessness and humiliation, robs a child of self-worth and self-respect, and can lead to withdrawal or aggression (Sternberg et al., 1993; Straus, 1994).

* Corporal punishment erodes trust between a parent and a child, and increases the risk of child abuse; as a discipline measure, it simply does not decrease children's aggressive or delinquent behaviors (Straus, 1994).

* Children who get spanked regularly are more likely over time to cheat or lie, be disobedient at school, bully others, and show less remorse for wrongdoing (Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).

* Corporal punishment adversely affects children's cognitive development. Children who are spanked perform poorly on school tasks compared to other children (Straus & Mathur, 1995; Straus & Paschall, 1998).​

And more resources in case you are curious about it's effects.

Greven, P. 1991. Spare the child: The religious roots of punishment and the psychological impact of physical abuse. New York: Random House.

Straus, M., and D. Donnelly. 1993. Beating the devil out of them: corporal punishment in American families. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass.

Males, M. 1996. The scapegoat generation: America's war on adolescents. Monroe, Mass.: Common Courage Press.​

I'm serious about you looking up how behavior management is currently taught to future teachers in college. It works. It will undoubtedly change as the understanding of development continues, but it is far better than corporal punishment.

There is a huge difference in being "firm" and employing classroom behavior management techniques to reinforce a teacher's control of the class, and employing violence to achieve that end.

Read up.

I disagree with many of those points raised in the study. It's ironic we're using the claim that corporal punishment may cause violence or unruly behaviour when the entire focus here is of already unruly and violent kids.

This study concludes that corporal punishment would most likely worsen child behaviour. And yet ironically - here at least again - since we have adopted a more liberal passive approach in our schooling and parenting the poor behaviour increases.

 

[kingkitty]

The government does not sanction torture~!

 

[gohepcat]

since we have adopted a more liberal passive approach in our schooling and parenting the poor behaviour increases.

And once again you make a claim with absolutely nothing to back it up

 

[Jasup]

And once again you make a claim with absolutely nothing to back it up

Can't you see it? Open your eyes!

 

[KHarvey16]

I disagree with many of those points raised in the study. It's ironic we're using the claim that corporal punishment may cause violence or unruly behaviour when the entire focus here is of already unruly and violent kids.

This study concludes that corporal punishment would most likely worsen child behaviour. And yet ironically - here at least again - since we have adopted a more liberal passive approach in our schooling and parenting the poor behaviour increases.

So your reasoning is kids are acting worse and we also do less corporal punishment...so OBVIOUSLY that's the cause. You know, that there rock music is more popular too. Also there seems to be more computers around than in the 50's, why not blame that?

And that's even granting you the truth of the claim kids are worse now. As far as you've demonstrated here that is nothing more than your opinion.

 

[Joel Was Right]

By the same token, you can find sources that contradict the anti-spanking attitude. This for example has several sources and scientific papers arguing this point

So your reasoning is kids are acting worse and we also do less corporal punishment...so OBVIOUSLY that's the cause. You know, that there rock music is more popular too. Also there seems to be more computers around than in the 50's, why not blame that?

And that's even granting you the truth of the claim kids are worse now. As far as you've demonstrated here that is nothing more than your opinion.

Increase was perhaps a poor choice for a word, but if we are to do a generic comparison the policies have changed and so has the behaviour. Whereas corporal punishment was a method available for teachers, now it is not. Many parents nowdays tend to support their children's stance over their teacher point blank, simply because they feel offended that their child was in the wrong somehow. This is not a universal statement, naturally, but there seems to be a link to our cultural ethics in this regard with the behaviour of the children themselves.

 

[gohepcat]

Since the 60s there has been a constant downwardspiral and interestingly enough the Generation that started the spiral is also the same one speaking out against disciplining children in prettymuch any fashion.

Yea...this is completely false.

How do you manage to deny reality so vehemently?

 

[-COOLIO-]

Escalation. We buy canes, they buy armor piercing rounds...

:lol

 

[VelvetMouth]

When you have statistics like 70% of black babies born today are born to single mothers, it's not really a surprise to read about how teachers have the added burden of having to raise a strangers child. By the time a child reaches school age, they should already have the basics down of how to be respectful towards other people and mind their elders.

While some single mothers can pull it off and raise well adjusted children on their own, the majority of children are fucked because the one parent they have doesn't have the time to parent or just can't be bothered. Caning is not going to fix years worth of parental neglect. I think it will lead to children disrespecting teachers even more and teaching them that violence is the way to solve issues.

*latino and white 2 parent families are declining as well, just not as extreme.

 

[WedgeX]

I live in London but the problem of anti-social youth behaviour is nationwide. Should every British person then migrate elsewhere, is that your solution? It can't stay the way it is. Something has to change. If a kid is bold enough and mature enough to threaten a teacher, he deserves a smack if not more. Pussy-footing around only reinforces their own arrogance and shatters the foundation of the education system; the teachers themselves.

At the end of it all, you need to ask yourself who here needs protection, foul mouthed abusive youths or those teachers

Argh. Bludgeoning "foul mouthed abusive youths" will do nothing to improve the situation.

Delinquency, Corporal Punishment, and the Schools

There is a growing trend in this country to blame youth crime on parental overpermissiveness. Available data fail to support this and show that all types of crime, including school crime, develop within families and school systems emphasizing aversive and authoritarian discipline techniques. Also, racism and personal injustice are more common in an authoritarian atmosphere. Of all types of aversive behavioral control, corporal punishment appears most apt to induce aggression. A theory relating delinquent aggression to the severity of parental discipline is sketched out, and it is suggested that a national effort be made to discourage the use of corporal punishment as a socially acceptable child-rearing technique. Since corporal punishment tends to produce both fear and anger, its continued use in the schools can only be counterproductive to the learning process. Forunately, many who strongly advocate corporal punishment in the classroom have expressed a willingness to forgo its use if more teachers and staff could be trained in alternative methods of effectively handling the troublesome pupil. Therefore, a joint effort should be made to train teachers thoroughly in nonaversive but effective techniques of pupil control. In addition, individual teachers need the support of well- trained guidance personnel who are willing to enter homes and work with the behavioral problems at their source.​

Coercion and Punishment in Long-Term Perspectives By Joan McCord

A book on this very subject. For free!

edit, because double posting is silly...

I disagree with many of those points raised in the study. It's ironic we're using the claim that corporal punishment may cause violence or unruly behaviour when the entire focus here is of already unruly and violent kids.

This study concludes that corporal punishment would most likely worsen child behaviour. And yet ironically - here at least again - since we have adopted a more liberal passive approach in our schooling and parenting the poor behaviour increases.

Really?

Taken from http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/statistics/statistics35.htm

and

from http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/statistics/statistics080.htm

 

[Tarazet]

 

[DoomGyver]

I say we put electric zappers in the young whippersnappers seats.

That will teach them.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Argh. Bludgeoning "foul mouthed abusive youths" will do nothing to improve the situation.

Delinquency, Corporal Punishment, and the Schools

There is a growing trend in this country to blame youth crime on parental overpermissiveness. Available data fail to support this and show that all types of crime, including school crime, develop within families and school systems emphasizing aversive and authoritarian discipline techniques. Also, racism and personal injustice are more common in an authoritarian atmosphere. Of all types of aversive behavioral control, corporal punishment appears most apt to induce aggression. A theory relating delinquent aggression to the severity of parental discipline is sketched out, and it is suggested that a national effort be made to discourage the use of corporal punishment as a socially acceptable child-rearing technique. Since corporal punishment tends to produce both fear and anger, its continued use in the schools can only be counterproductive to the learning process. Forunately, many who strongly advocate corporal punishment in the classroom have expressed a willingness to forgo its use if more teachers and staff could be trained in alternative methods of effectively handling the troublesome pupil. Therefore, a joint effort should be made to train teachers thoroughly in nonaversive but effective techniques of pupil control. In addition, individual teachers need the support of well- trained guidance personnel who are willing to enter homes and work with the behavioral problems at their source.​

Coercion and Punishment in Long-Term Perspectives By Joan McCord

A book on this very subject. For free!

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the cause for the increase of anti-social behaviour of our children this generation? Your sources argue that an authoritarian environment contributes to the decline of behaviour of a child, yet I don't think anyone would suggest that parents nowdays are certainly authoritarian. So if parent's aren't particularly strict on their children, and yet there is an increase of this poor behaviour then what do you think is causing it?

 

[Jasup]

By the same token, you can find sources that contradict the anti-spanking attitude. This for example has several sources and scientific papers arguing this point

One peer reviewed paper? Loads of critique on papers that say spanking doesn't work. But still, not a very strong case you're building here.

 

[gohepcat]

By the same token, you can find sources that contradict the anti-spanking attitude. This for example has several sources and scientific papers arguing this point

biola.edu

Jesus Christ man. Do you have no sense of what bad research looks like? What happened to you?

 

[Joel Was Right]

One peer reviewed paper? Loads of critique on papers that say spanking doesn't work. But still, not a very strong case you're building here.

URL="http://www.fractaldomains.com/devpsych/baumrind.htm"]Dr. Diana Baumrind [/URL](Institute for Human Development at the University of California-Berkeley) thoughts on corporal punishment from a leading developmental psychologist.

Spare the Rod? Den A. Trumbull, M.D. and S. DuBose Ravenel, M.D. (both practicing board-certified pediatricians) respond to various objections to the use of corporal punishment and offer guidelines for disciplinary spanking. As they point out, many articles in this area are "merely opinion-driven editorials, reviews or commentaries, devoid of new empirical findings."

Bartkowski, John and W. Bradford Wilcox. "Conservative Protestant Child Discipline: The Case of Parental Yelling.". Princeton, NJ - A new study casts doubts on previous assertions that conservative Protestant parents are abusive and authoritarian.

Gunnoe & Mariner (1997) Toward a Developmental-Contextual Model of the Effects of Parental Spanking on Children's Aggression. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 1997;151:768-775 A well designed study that critically examines the claim that spanking teaches children that physical aggression can be used appropriately in conflict situations

Corporal Punishment by David Benatar (1998). A philosopher analyzes the anti-spanking arguments that corporal punishment is degrading, that it is psychologically damaging, that it teaches the child that violence is an appropriate way to settle disagreements, etc. He demonstrates that these arguments fail for lack of evidence and/or are logically unsound. Social Theory & Practice, Summer 1998, Vol. 24 Issue 2, p.237

 

[gohepcat]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the cause for the increase of anti-social behaviour of our children this generation?

Why do you not deny the allegations that you raped and murdered a woman in 1990?

You can't start a conversation with something that isn't true. How is someone supposed to answer this?

 

[KHarvey16]

Meus, if I linked a study from stopbeatingchildrennow.org, how would you react?

 

[Joel Was Right]

biola.edu

Jesus Christ man. Do you have no sense of what bad research looks like? What happened to you?

A. What is peculiar about Biola?

B. The website links to the named articles, so what is the relevance if Biola itself is not the source?

 

[Jasup]

URL="http://www.fractaldomains.com/devpsych/baumrind.htm"]Dr. Diana Baumrind [/URL](Institute for Human Development at the University of California-Berkeley) thoughts on corporal punishment from a leading developmental psychologist.

Spare the Rod? Den A. Trumbull, M.D. and S. DuBose Ravenel, M.D. (both practicing board-certified pediatricians) respond to various objections to the use of corporal punishment and offer guidelines for disciplinary spanking. As they point out, many articles in this area are "merely opinion-driven editorials, reviews or commentaries, devoid of new empirical findings."

Bartkowski, John and W. Bradford Wilcox. "Conservative Protestant Child Discipline: The Case of Parental Yelling.". Princeton, NJ - A new study casts doubts on previous assertions that conservative Protestant parents are abusive and authoritarian.

Gunnoe & Mariner (1997) Toward a Developmental-Contextual Model of the Effects of Parental Spanking on Children's Aggression. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 1997;151:768-775 A well designed study that critically examines the claim that spanking teaches children that physical aggression can be used appropriately in conflict situations

Corporal Punishment by David Benatar (1998). A philosopher analyzes the anti-spanking arguments that corporal punishment is degrading, that it is psychologically damaging, that it teaches the child that violence is an appropriate way to settle disagreements, etc. He demonstrates that these arguments fail for lack of evidence and/or are logically unsound. Social Theory & Practice, Summer 1998, Vol. 24 Issue 2, p.237

Ok, my mistake. TWO.

 

[gohepcat]

URL="http://www.fractaldomains.com/devpsych/baumrind.htm"]Dr. Diana Baumrind [/URL](Institute for Human Development at the University of California-Berkeley) thoughts on corporal punishment from a leading developmental psychologist.

Spare the Rod? Den A. Trumbull, M.D. and S. DuBose Ravenel, M.D. (both practicing board-certified pediatricians) respond to various objections to the use of corporal punishment and offer guidelines for disciplinary spanking. As they point out, many articles in this area are "merely opinion-driven editorials, reviews or commentaries, devoid of new empirical findings."

Bartkowski, John and W. Bradford Wilcox. "Conservative Protestant Child Discipline: The Case of Parental Yelling.". Princeton, NJ - A new study casts doubts on previous assertions that conservative Protestant parents are abusive and authoritarian.

Gunnoe & Mariner (1997) Toward a Developmental-Contextual Model of the Effects of Parental Spanking on Children's Aggression. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 1997;151:768-775 A well designed study that critically examines the claim that spanking teaches children that physical aggression can be used appropriately in conflict situations

Corporal Punishment by David Benatar (1998). A philosopher analyzes the anti-spanking arguments that corporal punishment is degrading, that it is psychologically damaging, that it teaches the child that violence is an appropriate way to settle disagreements, etc. He demonstrates that these arguments fail for lack of evidence and/or are logically unsound. Social Theory & Practice, Summer 1998, Vol. 24 Issue 2, p.237

Every one from biola.edu

 

[Kinitari]

A. What is peculiar about Biola?

B. The website links to the named articles, so what is the relevance if Biola itself is not the source?

Considering physical disciplines importance in the Bible, it would be like trying to use Biola as a source in an evolution debate

“Some form of evolutionary development is tolerable and supported by evidence at the micro-level—within species, for example. But macro-evolution is a dogma of faith for naturalists who have no place else to turn,” said Doug Geivett, Biola professor for the Master of Arts program in philosophy of religion and ethics. “For anyone with a prior commitment to naturalism, some version of macro-evolution has to be right, regardless of the state of evidence.”

Oh dear.

 

[gohepcat]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the cause for the increase of anti-social behaviour of our children this generation?

What makes you believe this? Can you give me some reason?