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[dead souls]

David Simon's streak continues. This was great.

 

[User 85168]

I caught episode 1 and thought it was great. Can't wait for episode 2.

 

[Linius]

This is damn fine television. Great cast all around. And as Springsteen enthusiast I can't complain about the soundtrack.

 

[TheOddOne]

- A|V Club review.

 

[Frog-fu]

Impressions in this thread are very encouraging. I didn't get the chance to watch it last night, I watched Memento instead and was too tired afterwards. Will watch tonight though.

 

[Tugatrix]

what can I say David Simon nails it again, he never paint a black and white picture of a society, he translates reality in many shades of grey

 

[KingKong]

It's such a pleasure seeing so many great actors work with this kind of script and direction, I can't believe how many reviewers are calling it slow and drawn out

 

[Discotheque]

I was worried it would bore me but I found it a lot more intetesting than treme. It's like haggis and Simon's cowriter reigned in his mundane realism and pushed it more torwards something like the wire

I loved it

 

[Dalek]

I was worried it would bore me but I found it a lot more intetesting than treme. It's like haggis and Simon's cowriter reigned in his mundane realism and pushed it more torwards something like the wire

I loved it

True-nothing like Treme. It has the "Simon structure" but with momentum and an interesting story.

 

[Frog-fu]

Great first and second episode. Thoroughly enjoyed it. It was super frustrating to see all those people and that cunt Spallone especially be so resistant and openly bigoted, but that's the reality of the show and it's reality of our times. This show is very timely and relevant. Acting is great all around. Can't wait to see more.

 

[theignoramus]

This show poses some challenging questions and I love it.
The middle class identity in me understands that there are legitimate concerns about low income housing communities being placed in a middle income neighborhood but these folks in Yonkers seem to have racialized their class based fears.Which buries the valid portion of their concern in ugly anti black racism that I instinctively oppose.
They seem to think poor+black=trouble,with little to no exception.

 

[gdt]

Wonderful first episode. About to watch the second.

 

[gdt]

Hold the fucking phone that black lady is supposed to be 47?

Goddamn black people had it hard in the 80s.

 

[Dalek]

Watched the second episode, and it made me sick. Reminded me of the most recent This American Life episodes.

"We don't want THOSE people."

 

[captjohnboyd]

I'm so glad to heave read these positive reviews. I'm always jazzed from something new from Simon but I read a review the other day, can't recall form where, that really painted it in a bad light. In particular the fact that Paul Haggis was directing which was more than enough to scare me off.

I'll give it a shot now in spite of Haggis

 

[ZackieChan]

Huh, this really didn't grab me. The main plotline seems to be them just going through the same thing over and over again. Maybe I need to watch again.

I say this as a huge fan of The Wire and Gen Kill. Never watched Treme.

Acting was top notch, though.

 

[Frog-fu]

Huh, this really didn't grab me. The main plotline seems to be them just going through the same thing over and over again. Maybe I need to watch again.

I say this as a huge fan of The Wire and Gen Kill. Never watched Treme.

Acting was top notch, though.

Treme is fantastic. One of the best shows ever made, imo.

 

[dave is ok]

I'm so glad to heave read these positive reviews. I'm always jazzed from something new from Simon but I read a review the other day, can't recall form where, that really painted it in a bad light. In particular the fact that Paul Haggis was directing which was more than enough to scare me off.

I'll give it a shot now in spite of Haggis

Paul Haggis, the director isn't bad. You just don't want him writing it too

Treme is fantastic. One of the best shows ever made, imo.

Treme to me, is the worst thing David Simon has ever done. I watched it all and probably enjoyed it at times but he's much better off telling a story than doing a character study. Show Me a Hero is a story, thankfully.

 

[metsallica]

Huh, this really didn't grab me. The main plotline seems to be them just going through the same thing over and over again. Maybe I need to watch again.

I say this as a huge fan of The Wire and Gen Kill. Never watched Treme.

Acting was top notch, though.

I've enjoyed it, thought the second episode was stronger than the first, but yes it has felt repetitive thus far. Though it's escalating.

And you REALLY need to watch Treme. I like it more than The Wire.

 

[Blackhead]

Sigh

And you REALLY need to watch Treme. I like it more than The Wire.

qft

 

[Tugatrix]

Huh, this really didn't grab me. The main plotline seems to be them just going through the same thing over and over again. Maybe I need to watch again.

I say this as a huge fan of The Wire and Gen Kill. Never watched Treme.

Acting was top notch, though.

Yeah Simon can't change the reality, the repetition give you perspective over the years they drag this issue

 

[theignoramus]

Treme is fantastic. One of the best shows ever made, imo.

I just don't have the patience for Treme. Great acting though and Kim Dickens is a queen.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Treme is fantastic. One of the best shows ever made, imo.

Amen, brother.

 

[dead souls]

Sigh

Anyone expecting a David Simon show to get anything other than absolutely terrible ratings is kidding themselves.

Treme is fantastic. One of the best shows ever made, imo.

Agreed. I still miss it. The fact that HBO hasn't aired a good drama since it finished makes it even worse.

 

[ZackieChan]

Yeah Simon can't change the reality, the repetition give you perspective over the years they drag this issue

He can change what is depicted on screen. And if I saw one more council meeting or meeting with the judge that had the EXACT SAME CONTENT AND OUTCOME, I would have gone crazy.

I'll check out Treme asap, y'all.

 

[TTG]

Got around to watching the fist episode(s), don't know if this is the right medium for this story. There's an important message and it will certainly be heard by more people because it's on at prime time on HBO and I found myself not captivated by it at any point. To compound the juxtaposition of my impressions versus the show: there's nothing substantially bad about it, the acting is not melodramatic, it's not heavy handed, it is seemingly getting all the parts right. Not much to criticize then, but there's a perennial feeling that if I wanted to learn about this story I would rather read the book it's based on. How damning is that? I don't know. I'll probably give it another try this Sunday.

I would just be wary of declaring it another brilliant show from David Simon doomed to be ignored. I'll limit myself to saying that there's a hell of a lot of difference between The Wire and this, God knows you don't need yet another soliloquy of why The Wire is amazing and essentially without precedent. Not to sound crude, but I would almost rather have an hour long Last Week Tonight with David Simon: The Story of Yonkers instead.

 

[ZackieChan]

Good post. Maybe that explains what I was feeling while watching it. How many episodes is this?

 

[Blackhead]

Got around to watching the fist episode(s), don't know if this is the right medium for this story. There's an important message and it will certainly be heard by more people because it's on at prime time on HBO and I found myself not captivated by it at any point. To compound the juxtaposition of my impressions versus the show: there's nothing substantially bad about it, the acting is not melodramatic, it's not heavy handed, it is seemingly getting all the parts right. Not much to criticize then, but there's a perennial feeling that if I wanted to learn about this story I would rather read the book it's based on. How damning is that? I don't know. I'll probably give it another try this Sunday.

I would just be wary of declaring it another brilliant show from David Simon doomed to be ignored. I'll limit myself to saying that there's a hell of a lot of difference between The Wire and this, God knows you don't need yet another soliloquy of why The Wire is amazing and essentially without precedent. Not to sound crude, but I would almost rather have an hour long Last Week Tonight with David Simon: The Story of Yonkers instead.

You haven't read the book, you've only seen the first episode(s) and yet you already want to judge which is the appropriate medium or which is more interesting? LOL WUT

Everyone wants to praise The Wire but David Simon would be the first to point out that back when it aired the first few episodes were criticized for being too 'slow'. David Simon does not craft action packed pilots with a hook or cliffhanger to grab viewers. Be patient with his shows and you'll be rewarded

 

[Frog-fu]

Treme to me, is the worst thing David Simon has ever done. I watched it all and probably enjoyed it at times but he's much better off telling a story than doing a character study. Show Me a Hero is a story, thankfully.

Maybe, but the awesome thing about David Simon is that even the worst stuff he has ever put out is still top tier. Personally, my least favourite work of his is The Corner, but even that is brilliant.

I'd rank his shows in the following order: The Wire, Generation Kill, Treme, Show Me a Hero and The Corner.

I haven't watched all of Homicide, but I'd place it somewhere between The Wire and Treme, which I considered interchangeable with Generation Kill.

Character studies is one of David Simon's strong suits, I would say. He has created many memorable, multi-faceted characters whose actions and behaviour are so perfectly written and acted that each scene can be disected and examined down to the most minute detail.

When you think about the stories DS has written, they've never been that interesting conceptually, however it's the brilliant writing of the characters that elevated those stories to new heights.

I just don't have the patience for Treme. Great acting though and Kim Dickens is a queen.

Treme has an undeniable slow start that I think was more detrimental to it than the infamous first three episode hurdle of The Wire. Once you get into it though and you're familiar with the characters, the show becomes a real joy to watch for more than just the quality of the acting, albeit infuriating and depressing at times.

 

[Tugatrix]

He can change what is depicted on screen. And if I saw one more council meeting or meeting with the judge that had the EXACT SAME CONTENT AND OUTCOME, I would have gone crazy.

I'll check out Treme asap, y'all.

you are not fit for public office then, politics are really like this and on that degree the despiction is cruelly accurate

 

[jl4855]

Treme is fantastic. One of the best shows ever made, imo.

100% agree. top tier for me, amazing, incredible show.

 

[Blader]

He can change what is depicted on screen. And if I saw one more council meeting or meeting with the judge that had the EXACT SAME CONTENT AND OUTCOME, I would have gone crazy

Now imagine living like that.

 

[maxcriden]

Is this pretty PG-13? Or just...rated for language? Any other explicit content?

 

[Inferno313]

Is this pretty PG-13? Or just...rated for language? Any other explicit content?

I think I remember one or two "fucks" but that's it. No violence or sex as I recall.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Pretty compelling stuff, despite the housing plan being presented as a simple good/bad issue thus far.

Is this pretty PG-13? Or just...rated for language? Any other explicit content?

It has some pretty strong language but so far no violence or sex (just a couple insinuations - for instance, a woman puts her hand down towards a man's genital region and then he smiles before the camera cuts away).

 

[ZackieChan]

you are not fit for public office then, politics are really like this and on that degree the despiction is cruelly accurate

Now imagine living like that.

OK...but a compelling television show it does not make. I'll wait until I've seen it all to pass final judgment, though.

 

[Fjordson]

Watched the first two episodes and I loved them. Simon is so good.

Lots of great performances also. Even minor characters like Jon Bernthal and Winona Ryder

Spoiler

seriously why isn't Waciscko going after Winona tho. crazy

 

[theignoramus]

Treme has an undeniable slow start that I think was more detrimental to it than the infamous first three episode hurdle of The Wire. Once you get into it though and you're familiar with the characters, the show becomes a real joy to watch for more than just the quality of the acting, albeit infuriating and depressing at times.

Oh I know. I watched the first two seasons for Lester Freamon and Bunk Moreland lol.Kim Dickens was great. The white musician guy was annoying.

 

[Blackhead]

He can change what is depicted on screen. And if I saw one more council meeting or meeting with the judge that had the EXACT SAME CONTENT AND OUTCOME, I would have gone crazy.

I'll check out Treme asap, y'all.

OK...but a compelling television show it does not make. I'll wait until I've seen it all to pass final judgment, though.

yeah you really need to watch it again to pick up on the subtle differences or watch actual political tv on C-Span for some perspective on what boring politics looks like.

Oh I know. I watched the first two seasons for Lester Freamon and Bunk Moreland lol.Kim Dickens was great. The white musician guy was annoying.

I thought this was a good perspective on Treme: The Radical Humanism of David Simon

A couple of episodes into Show Me a Hero, I realized that I owe David Simon an apology...

In the foreground, you have a dynamic and immediately involving story about ex-cop turned city councilman Nick Wasicsko (Oscar Isaac), a white man of Polish descent who senses opportunity in the conflict, runs for mayor against a powerful incumbent (Jim Belushi), wins, then finds himself presiding over a city tearing itself apart over race and class. In the background, you have individual stories, none of which are connected at first. They're about black and Hispanic and white people working in various professions and dealing with distinct problems that are important to them but not of interest to the wider world...

Almost any other mini-series or movie would have presented these supporting characters as adjuncts to the city council and government stuff, which revolves around middle-class white characters of European descent. They might have gotten one or two scenes apiece. They certainly wouldn’t have been threaded throughout all six hours and given so many scenes that you are forced to accept them as being every bit as important as the characters played by handsome and charming Oscar Isaac; or Winona Ryder, who's magnetic as a fellow councilmember whom Nick has a crush on; or Alfred Molina, playing a reactionary whose charisma is as undeniable as his politics are ugly.

What makes this statement different from most statements in movies and television is how it is made: not through monologues or pronouncements or slogans (though the mini-series has plenty of that; it's about politics, after all) but through the selection and arrangement of material on the screen. The nagging little voice in the back of the viewer's head that says, Why are they spending so much time on these supporting characters who have nothing to do with the council? is the same voice that says, in reaction to a current news story, What does the misfortune of strangers have to do with me? You have to make a decision to care equally about every character in Show Me a Hero...

Simon's projects do this sort of thing all the time. It is not a popular or pleasing way to make entertainment. A lot of people resent it, frankly, and his willingness to shrug off such reactions is probably one of the main reasons he’s struggled to win funding for his projects. And it's why, Peabody Award notwithstanding, he has never won many traditional industry accolades for his work....

Which brings me to the apology, which in turn brings me back to Treme, and, to a lesser extent, The Wire. Both of those series, like Hero, have huge ensemble casts and divide their attentions as democratically (there’s that word again) as possible among as many different kinds of people as possible. Some are bigger than life, brash, colorful, brilliant, like McNulty or Lester Freamon or Bunny Colvin or Felicia “Snoop” Pearson on The Wire, or Albert Lambreax or Davis McAlary or Creighton Burnette or Ladonna Peters on Treme... Stirred in among these characters, you’ll find what you might as well call fuck-ups, people so self-destructive and generally irritating that you sometimes find yourself muttering at them as if they were actually in your living room taking up valuable air: Think of Ziggy on season two of The Wire, who had almost no redeeming features save his love for his cousin*; or Sonny on Treme, the junkie musician who spent the first couple of seasons using other people along with drugs and just sort of drifting from failure to failure.

I complained about some of these characters — not the performances, not the writing, but the emphasis given to irritating or self-destructive or seemingly hopeless characters at the expense of other characters I found funnier, more dynamic, more, well, likable...

Yes, I realize, the sophisticated viewer ought to know better than to fall into this trap, but there are times when the old Hollywood patterns influence a critic's sympathies even as he decries them. No matter: Simon stuck to his guns and kept embedding less exciting and often less likable characters amid all the ones I adored. And over time, an amazing thing happened: I started to care. I mean really care. I don’t want to spoil what happens to Ziggy on The Wire or Sonny on Treme on the off chance that you haven’t already watched those shows; suffice it to say that the conclusions of their stories are among the most powerful things I’ve ever seen on TV, and they came about as a direct result of Simon and his collaborators insisting that the show, and we, pay attention to them because they’re human, just like anyone else.

In time, I figured out that my resistance to those characters, and my resistance to the almost mathematical equivalency with which Simon doles out screen time, were both vestigial remnants of mentalities that Simon has tried to point out and refute through his stories. His work is more morally and politically and dramatically advanced than almost anyone who naysays it.

Show Me a Hero practices exactly this kind of storytelling...

 

[Peru]

Wow this is riveting from the start of the first episode. I've liked post-Wire Simon productions but this is the first since that one to 100% grab me in the first episode. The political aspect, the citizens on the street.. real, compelling.

 

[Deku Tree]

Alright I'm gonna watch this. It sounds like I'll like it a lot better than the last show in this HBO time slot.

 

[vpance]

Watched it and got The Wire feels all over again. I was worried it would be boring but the characters seem pretty interesting so far. Looking forward to seeing how Wasicsko smooths out this mess.

 

[firehawk12]

This is great drama. It makes me excited for either David Simon show to air.

I also had no idea that there were parts of New York that were so racist.

 

[TheOddOne]

New episodes today:

Parts 3 & 4.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

New episodes today:

I keep forgetting we're getting two episodes per week.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I keep forgetting we're getting two episodes per week.

Yeah, not sure how I feel about that. First two hours were dense enough were it would have been nice to have a week to each one.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Yeah, not sure how I feel about that. First two hours were dense enough were it would have been nice to have a week to each one.

I'll just spread them out over 2-3 days.

 

[Deku Tree]

I still need to watch episode 2. Enjoying it though.

 

[RastaMentality]

I've been really enjoying the show exactly. But has the show said why exactly the public housing had to be desegregated? I think I missed it.

I was always under the (most likely wrong) impression that public housing was usually only built in poorer areas of town. Why was it being brought to this middle class area?

 

[BlueTsunami]

That open letter to a mother's son. Tying everyone's struggle together. Encapsulating THE struggle. Just perfect.