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[pel1300]

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/st...s-sequel-trilogy-miss-george-lucas-last-jedi/

Daaamnnn...shots fired.

First he openly said months ago "JJ Abrams had very different plans for Rey's lineage"...now this.

Wonder how JJ Abrams, being Executive Producer of TLJ feels about this.

 

[AV]

He misses Lucas' imagination, which makes sense. Episodes 1-3 were bad movies, but at least they tried to introduce cool new ideas. TFA lifted almost everything from A New Hope and TLJ didn't exactly introduce anything new either (and actively fucked a few things lore-wise). Besides those, we've had two prequels which would naturally also draw from the well. I think it's a common feeling, and why Solo didn't do very well / Boba Fett has been cancelled.

Hopefully the new side projects will actually give us some cool new stuff.

 

[Kenpachii]

The star wars movies are made because they need star wars movies for money gain. They are not made because of passion.

They also feel absolutely stale because of it.

Now with 4-5 different starwars movies already out and already 6 before that, people start to lose track of what is a main line version and what is not specially with the last one being so terrible.

Star wars kinda lost its meaning. It got milked to much already.

 

[Frank Spencer]

 

[tkscz]

The issue with George's writing is focus. He can't seem to focus on what matters and what doesn't without someone telling him and it all becomes a mess. However he is really good at word building. imagination and vision. He knows what he wants to create, but because he can't seem to focus on one part of it, he ends up creating too much and it all runs together poorly. The original trilogy had co-directors cutting his work down to what was important and what wasn't. Giving focus to Star Wars. The Prequel trilogy didn't have that focus. Ideas were everywhere, characters developed at odd intervals. Pacing was off between movies. The core ideas of a great set of films were there, but they were executed poorly. Jar Jar had too much screen time, there was too much time spent on Naboo. While war does involve a lot of politics, there was too much in this movie. Those elements could've been brought together more cohesively, but weren't.

The Force Awakens (which I finally saw) feels corporate and PBN (pain by numbers). It just felt like it was going through the motions and not trying to be imaginative or lively, just trying to be a "star wars" film. It succeeds at it and isn't a bad movie, just not really one I can see myself watching again. It feels like a retread and that we're just going through A New Hope but with a different coat of paint. I mean, if it attracts audiences, why not? The Last Jedi was just a bad movie all around.

I can understand why they'd want Lucus's imagination back, but he focus was awful. You can have him back but he needs co-directors to make things work.

 

[ruvikx]

Disney's stranglehold on media opinion distorted the "truth", i.e. their new Star Wars movies are at best forgettable & at worst a Star Wars equivalent of Batman & Robin (The Last Jedi).

Simon Pegg would probably say a lot more on the subject if he wasn't being careful about his expressed views (he did work with JJ Abrams, after all) but we get his point.

 

[kunonabi]

Lucas understands SW as a mythic space opera which is something no one else seems to get. I was a huge fan of the SW EU books growing up but even those never really got it either as they felt more like dumbed down sci fi stories with a SW skin. To Disney its just another IP to leverage for profits and a soapbox/sandbox for the creatives to dick around with for their own personal satisfaction. The actual heart of SW is nowhere to be seen anymore.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

I agree entirely
Watching the new films is like watching a Beatles cover band, you should have no expections other than these are people rehashing the creative work of people who came before them. It can still be fun, but it’s a pale imitation of a once vital experience

 

[michaelius]

Well I remember I said Disney can only make better movies than Lucas prequels. They sure proven me wrong

 

[pel1300]

I agree entirely
Watching the new films is like watching a Beatles cover band, you should have no expections other than these are people rehashing the creative work of people who came before them. It can still be fun, but it’s a pale imitation of a once vital experience

That is exactly what RLM's Half in the Bag review of The Last Jedi said.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Well I remember I said Disney can only make better movies than Lucas prequels. They sure proven me wrong

it is funny, i have gone back to watch the prequels, and they really are far better, and they hold up so much. there is so much charm in the pulpy backdrops, the sci fi landscapes, the utter strangeness of everything, Amidala's bizarre baroque kabuki style that is constantly changing and evolving, the pod racing, the Mobius-comic-style baroque world design, all the cheesy b-movie riffs and Harryhausen monster tributes, seeing Christopher Lee show up was so momentous. this great actor, Dracula himself, last seen as an evil wizard commanding a vast army of the dead, as a crooked politician and dark evil secret Sith, was so fucking cooooool. i mean this is genre heaven right here? seeing him fight Yoda the first time, watching this stoned while on tour with my friends in a dollar theater, was so badass. that was one of the first bootlegs i ever downloaded, a DIVX cam of just that scene. later i found out that Yoda fighting like that was something George actually had come up with when writing the original movies, so it is in the spirit of the first Star Wars, despite what some may say.

Attack of the Clones has always been one of the coolest titles of a Star Wars movie in my opinion, it is so comic booky, it is so pulp fiction, i love it. people that are embarrassed by that title are people that would prefer the new Disney Star Wars.

 

[Pagusas]

I agree entirely
Watching the new films is like watching a Beatles cover band, you should have no expections other than these are people rehashing the creative work of people who came before them. It can still be fun, but it’s a pale imitation of a once vital experience

Yep. And TLJ is like someone trying to rewrite the lyrics of a classic beetles song, and completely losing the soul of the song. The rythem is there, the overal sound is familiar, but the heart and soul is just completely gone.

 

[NickFire]

I miss him too. I don't miss the midochlorians or whatever the hell they were called, but I miss the old ways. Before the Disney empire. Before the dark times.

 

[Fbh]

Agreed and I've said it before.
It's not like the prequels have suddenly become good movies but at least they had more to like. At least they showed a new side of Star Wars, we got to see how the world was before the empire, we got to see cool new locations, the Jedi order before it was wiped out, etc. It introduced stuff like the droids and cool new ship and weapons and, for better or worse, it made lightsaber fights more over the top and acrobatic and made force users more OP. I know some people think it went too far in that regard but, hell, that final fight from episode 1 is still more exciting than any action scene from these new movies IMO.

The new movies were lacking creativity from day 1. It's the exact same scenario and world as the original trilogy, the evil empire with the storm troopers and the planet destroying weapon, the rebels with their lack of resources just scraping by, the jedis which are believed to be extinct, etc. 2 movies in and not only have they failed to tell a compelling story but they have nothing else to show either

First he openly said months ago "JJ Abrams had very different plans for Rey's lineage"...now this.
Wonder how JJ Abrams, being Executive Producer of TLJ feels about this.

The one thing I truly don't get about these new movies is how you buy something as popular and beloved as Star Wars, get ready to make a new trilogy and then DON'T at least get a creative team together to define and write down the main story structure and major plot points for the trilogy.
I'm not saying writing the entire script of all 3 movies and having everything be set in stone, but at least some sort of general idea of where things are going.

Like on the Marvel side they probably already know what Ms Marvel will be doing until 2040. But for star wars they just wrote one movie and then gave it to another team with complete freedom to continue writing it and then to another team to finish it

 

[Catphish]

I miss him, but I don't miss his need to tinker with what's done. If he'd have taken all that energy spent on 'improving' history, and used it on his new history, who knows what he/we would have ended up with.

Still, truth: No matter how fucked Star Wars is or becomes, no one can take away what the original trilogy was to my little self, and Lucas made that happen. So, if nothing else, I will always be grateful for that.

Heart is everything, and the o.t had it. If there's to be any return to glory for the franchise, it needs to fking reacquire it.

 

[120v]

i think even the most cynical fan marathoning plinkette reviews 10 times a day would concede Lucas was onto something in the way of creative scope, special edition/prequel warts and all

new movies have none of that. maybe you like them maybe you don't but it's a boardroom committee production and it shows

 

[squallheart]

The issue with George's writing is focus. He can't seem to focus on what matters and what doesn't without someone telling him and it all becomes a mess. However he is really good at word building. imagination and vision. He knows what he wants to create, but because he can't seem to focus on one part of it, he ends up creating too much and it all runs together poorly. The original trilogy had co-directors cutting his work down to what was important and what wasn't. Giving focus to Star Wars. The Prequel trilogy didn't have that focus. Ideas were everywhere, characters developed at odd intervals. Pacing was off between movies. The core ideas of a great set of films were there, but they were executed poorly. Jar Jar had too much screen time, there was too much time spent on Naboo. While war does involve a lot of politics, there was too much in this movie. Those elements could've been brought together more cohesively, but weren't.

The Force Awakens (which I finally saw) feels corporate and PBN (pain by numbers). It just felt like it was going through the motions and not trying to be imaginative or lively, just trying to be a "star wars" film. It succeeds at it and isn't a bad movie, just not really one I can see myself watching again. It feels like a retread and that we're just going through A New Hope but with a different coat of paint. I mean, if it attracts audiences, why not? The Last Jedi was just a bad movie all around.

I can understand why they'd want Lucus's imagination back, but he focus was awful. You can have him back but he needs co-directors to make things work.

Sounds like what's happening with potter films from the latest reviews. Rowling is like Lucas great world builders but cant seem to focus it down to a cohesive film. Disney just wants the cash flow because they know people will go out and see it.

 

[Bolivar687]

Just to get it out of the way, the prequels are deeply flawed movies with enormous missed moments. Even then, I'd rather watch Lucas' worst creative idea than Disney's best corporate machination. These just aren't interesting or worthwhile movies to watch, I'd genuinely prefer a prequel at least for the novel ideas and moments that George built in the films.

seeing Christopher Lee show up was so momentous. this great actor, Dracula himself, last seen as an evil wizard commanding a vast army of the dead, as a crooked politician and dark evil secret Sith, was so fucking cooooool. i mean this is genre heaven right here?

 

[Tevious]

The one thing I truly don't get about these new movies is how you buy something as popular and beloved as Star Wars, get ready to make a new trilogy and then DON'T at least get a creative team together to define and write down the main story structure and major plot points for the trilogy.
I'm not saying writing the entire script of all 3 movies and having everything be set in stone, but at least some sort of general idea of where things are going.

I think they did have an outline, but Rian Johnson had other "ideas" (or non-ideas) and changed it.

 

[pel1300]

I think they did have an outline, but Rian Johnson had other "ideas" (or non-ideas) and changed it.

Rumor is that they wanted JJ Abrams to have the role as the creative director for the trilogy...but he declined.

Then we have Daisy Ridley saying in an interview that JJ had rough outlines for Ep 8 and 9 but Rian scrapped them.

On the other hand, apparently JJ himself said he didn't have any plans storywise post TFA....

And then we have Simon Pegg saying JJ's had "very different" plans for Rey and her lineage than Rian Johnson....so

Who to believe?

 

[JimmyRustler]

I never reslly got the hate for the prequels. Especially episode I and III were great. At least you can tell those movies were made by an artist, unlike the new movies that feel like a corporate product of some money-hungy producers.

 

[Fbh]

I think they did have an outline, but Rian Johnson had other "ideas" (or non-ideas) and changed it.

I mean yeah JJ and his team probably had an idea , but that's pretty much worthless if you are just going to bring in another director/writer and give him complete freedom to do whatever the hell he wants. They should have given him as much freedom as possible but also given him some major plot points that he just had to follow.

I can't imagine a big multipart story tuning out fine (at least in most cases) when each part is written by different people with no defined overarching plot than any of them need to follow

 

[thequestion]

I think it would be cool if George Lucas got involved with FOX’s Flash Gordon film, seeing as how that property heavily influenced Star Wars and was actually the film George wanted to make, back in the day, but when he couldn’t get it, he made Star Wars instead.

Poetry in motion...

 

[TheShadowLord]

interesting to see that people wanting him back after the way Dinsey is handling the series. One of the biggest complaints I see in regards to the prequel trilogy is that it uses a lot of cgi which fans didn't like at the time.

 

[hariseldon]

interesting to see that people wanting him back after the way Dinsey is handling the series. One of the biggest complaints I see in regards to the prequel trilogy is that it uses a lot of cgi which fans didn't like at the time.

The CGI was a problem in that at that time CGI just wasn't very good - meaning that everything created with it looked a bit bland, too clean, etc. However the big problem with the CGI was that the actors didn't really know how to work with it in green screen rooms, not helped by obsessive secrecy over scripts which meant that the actors weren't able to figure out the best ways to handle it because they were only getting small chunks of it at a time (ie enough for the scene they were working on).

 

[Xenon]

Yep. What they are not missing is an agenda.

 

[Tesseract]

jj didn't have shit for episode 8 and 9 planned, i don't believe that shit for a second

this is a guy who did a ted talk about mystery boxes, get the fuck outta here with that shit

 

[tkscz]

I never reslly got the hate for the prequels. Especially episode I and III were great. At least you can tell those movies were made by an artist, unlike the new movies that feel like a corporate product of some money-hungy producers.

The prequels have a lot of potiental, and if you can see all it is trying to set up and accomplish, then they can be good movies worth watching. I'm not much of a Star Wars fan (if one at all), but I do enjoy examining the shit out of their writing and direction because of how interesting that aspect is for me. The prequels have this set up for something far more epic than what actually ended up being the focus. Government subterfuge, internal and external civil warring, Characters building up to be something great or something infamous. Knowing how things will turn out, but not knowing the build up for it. The potential there is huge, but the direction of it made it a let down for a lot of people. I honestly think with better directions the prequels could be good movies. Of course I can't speak for true Star Wars fans who see more than just awkward writing and bad direction. Lore was a big complaint for them.

 

[Elfstar]

I don't really miss George's filmmaking skills, and the prequels ae still terrible-to-mediocre movies.
But i understand what people mean when they say that the new episodes really lack his "soul", his commitment to innovation, his willingness to always make new things, and yes, also his charming bizarreness.

It really feels that Disney's only concern was to make bank with their new, shiny IP in the most boring, safe way possible, and all we got was an extremely lame soft-reboot movie that accomplished to kickstart a new whole saga in the least interesting way possible.
I'm sure that Lucas would've at least came up with some completely new story, and not just some dumb, frustrating "yet again empire vs rebels" rehash.

 

[MilkyJoe]

He misses Lucas' imagination, which makes sense. Episodes 1-3 were bad movies, but at least they tried to introduce cool new ideas. TFA lifted almost everything from A New Hope and TLJ didn't exactly introduce anything new either (and actively fucked a few things lore-wise). Besides those, we've had two prequels which would naturally also draw from the well. I think it's a common feeling, and why Solo didn't do very well / Boba Fett has been cancelled.

Hopefully the new side projects will actually give us some cool new stuff.

There's a recent article that collated the glass doors reviews from Lucasfilm employees and this one, of many, really hammers home how much they do not give a shit

there's plenty to read here, it's really quite scathing,

https://disneystarwarsisdumb.wordpr...ws-of-lucasfilm-paint-an-interesting-picture/

 

[#Phonepunk#]

one thing i find missing is the Art Deco influence, which was always a timely one given the Flash Gordon era that inspired Star Wars to begin with. Cloud City is probably the best example of this in the OT, but it is seen in set & costume design throughout the original 6 films. the prequels in particular have a strong Art Deco, 20s futurist sensibility, an appreciation for aesthetic nostalgia that is missing from the starker, shot-for-tv/streaming modern take.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Well I remember I said Disney can only make better movies than Lucas prequels. They sure proven me wrong

I made the same mistake as well. My first hot-take reaction to TFA was, "I kind of wish we had a little Lucas-style explaination of what the hell is going on."

 

[MacReady13]

George Lucas IS Star Wars. It's his world. His characters. His creations. Taking that from him was a HUGE mistake and not letting him have any input was a fatal error. I love the first 6 Star Wars films because they were designed by Lucas himself. He knows what he wants... JJ and Rian fucked it up so badly.

 

[MacReady13]

I never reslly got the hate for the prequels. Especially episode I and III were great. At least you can tell those movies were made by an artist, unlike the new movies that feel like a corporate product of some money-hungy producers.

Totally agree.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

It is interesting how perceptions change. The prequels are bad movies, but they are bad Star Wars movies. When they came out people had the choice between good Star Wars movies and bad Star Wars movies, so of course they will hate the bad ones. But the newest movies are just bad movies that happen to have the name Star Wars attached, and if I had to pick between bad movies and bad Star Wars movies you can bet I am gonna choose the bad Star Wars movies.

This is also why I dont think people will come around to the new ones in the future like they have the prequels.

 

[pel1300]

interesting to see that people wanting him back after the way Dinsey is handling the series. One of the biggest complaints I see in regards to the prequel trilogy is that it uses a lot of cgi which fans didn't like at the time.

Fans didn't like that George seemed to be prioritizing pushing technology over story. Add to that CGI back then was pretty bad.

People aren't as critical of CGI nowadays because when done right it can look pretty amazing. Rogue One in particular has amazing a CGI space battle where I wondered "Are those Star Destroyers CGI or practical effects?"

 

[pel1300]

It is interesting how perceptions change. The prequels are bad movies, but they are bad Star Wars movies. When they came out people had the choice between good Star Wars movies and bad Star Wars movies, so of course they will hate the bad ones. But the newest movies are just bad movies that happen to have the name Star Wars attached, and if I had to pick between bad movies and bad Star Wars movies you can bet I am gonna choose the bad Star Wars movies.

This is also why I dont think people will come around to the new ones in the future like they have the prequels.

It's like how newer presidents make previous presidents look good.

 

[pel1300]

I mean yeah JJ and his team probably had an idea , but that's pretty much worthless if you are just going to bring in another director/writer and give him complete freedom to do whatever the hell he wants. They should have given him as much freedom as possible but also given him some major plot points that he just had to follow.

I can't imagine a big multipart story tuning out fine (at least in most cases) when each part is written by different people with no defined overarching plot than any of them need to follow

Kathleen Kennedy said to George's face: Her main priority would be to treat the OT characters with respect and make sure they are portrayed similar to how we remember...

Biggest. Lie. Ever.

Even if they had no plan for the story...they could have at least had a "MUST DO" list:

-Must give Luke a chance to shine and show how his power with the force has progressed
-Must show Luke pass the torch gracefully to the newer generation
-Must make sure Part II of this trilogy has a hook that will make fans excited for Part III
-Must have Luke, Leia, and Han onscreen at least once.
-Must not kill the OT characters until we are certain fans love the new characters

If they would have just followed the above

 

[royox]

Mandatory reminder that Lucas was going to release a piece of shit instead of what we got as Star Wars EpIV

 

[SaviourMK2]

I honestly think the sequels are fine, yeah i have complaints but they're not that awful

 

[DKehoe]

Mandatory reminder that Lucas was going to release a piece of shit instead of what we got as Star Wars EpIV

I'd seen this before and it really does show what a difference good editors can make. Lucas is a great ideas person but needs others to work as a filter.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

The prequels are not good movies. But as a rule, present-day Disney (further) ruins whatever it touches.

 

[Hanon]

I felt with the sequels, they should have dropped the Darth Vader saga for a new saga like Knights of the Old Republic

 

[MacReady13]

Mandatory reminder that Lucas was going to release a piece of shit instead of what we got as Star Wars EpIV

Sometimes it's great to have people around to help you see different perspectives. Besides, it wouldn't be the 1st movie that editing helped... And it doesn't diminish the fact that Lucas created this film, these worlds and characters. I really can't stand how it's now become cool to bash on George Lucas, and to re-write history to pretend he had no influence in how good Star Wars was!

 

[BANGS]

Yeah I have to say, I enjoyed the prequels a hell of a lot more than I'm enjoying the sequels. I feel like a ton of people feel that way but don't want to admit it, they're rather just bitch about all of it...

 

[pel1300]

I'd seen this before and it really does show what a difference good editors can make. Lucas is a great ideas person but needs others to work as a filter.

George Lucas: Writes story treatment

Michael Ardnt + Lawrence Kasdan: Writes a screenplay based on George's story outline

JJ Abrams: Directs

Wasn't that the original plan?

 

[DKehoe]

George Lucas: Writes story treatment

Michael Ardnt + Lawrence Kasdan: Writes a screenplay based on George's story outline

JJ Abrams: Directs

Wasn't that the original plan?

I don’t think so. I believe the outlines Lucas already had before the Disney deal were immediately thrown out and they went with something else.

 

[pel1300]

I don’t think so. I believe the outlines Lucas already had before the Disney deal were immediately thrown out and they went with something else.

I mean wasn't something like that the agreement...and then once the Disney buyout was final, Disney quickly changed their mind?

I remember Kathleen Kennedy clearly talking about how George's vision and ideas will be the main creative force behind Disney Star Wars, he just wouldn't be directing or writing screenplays.

I think the only thing they kept from George was Luke being in a bad state emotionally, and isolated on an island...but that was meant for Episode VII.

 

[DKehoe]

I mean wasn't something like that the agreement...and then once the Disney buyout was final, Disney quickly changed their mind?

I remember Kathleen Kennedy clearly talking about how George's vision and ideas will be the main creative force behind Disney Star Wars, he just wouldn't be directing or writing screenplays.

I think the only thing they kept from George was Luke being in a bad state emotionally, and isolated on an island...but that was meant for Episode VII.

Ah ok I didn’t see that. I remember reading Lucas saying he’d given them his concepts which he hoped they’d make use of but I hadn’t heard anything from Disney’s side about that.

 

[pel1300]

Ugh...I just watched the documentary "The Director and the Jedi"

Rian Johnson says: "Since this movie is about the transition from adolescence to adulthood...Kylo represents the anger of adolescence" - quick cut to Kylo yelling MORE!!! MORE!!!

My god...Kylo is not a freakin teenager you idiot hack!! Rey is not a teenager!!

Not to mention...going by this documentary...they spent more time effort and money on Canto Bight than anything else.

Rian acts like a little kid on set. He just keeps doing his high pitched giggle nonstop whenever he sees these ugly or gross childish alien designs in Canto Bight.

The sea cow milking scene? They spent forever on it trying to make it look as gross as possible. They spent millions of dollars and time on it. Boggles my mind that they thought this dumb 10 second scene was worth so much money and time.

Rose? He specifically says "I like characters I can relate with. When I wrote Rose, she was a genuine nerd. The kind of person I would hang out with in high school. And she looked like she didn't belong in a Star Wars movie. I want to surprise people by having them see a type of person they don't expect"

Mark Hamill looks miserable throughout filming. Not once does he smile or laugh near Rian. He looks pissed off whenever he is near Rian. But when he is with other members of the crew, you can see him smiling and joking around.

Carrie Fisher in the doc says "Rian doesn't look like it, but he has a very...DOMINATING vision..he will see that vision through no matter what" TRANSLATION: He is a stubborn filmmaker who refuses to edit or rewrite anything no matter how flawed it is. No one can change his mind.

Rian states: "Obviously Mark Hamill wasn't thrilled with many of the choices made for his character, including Luke dying at the end" Jesus christ he knew the whole thing would piss Mark off and did it anyway.

The actors in general don't look like they are having a good time making this movie, with the exception of Oscar Isaac. Daisy Ridley never smiles or laughs on set.

Almost every decision Rian makes has to do with making everything relatable to him and his personal life. And unfortunately for the fans...Rian Johnson is a soy boy nerd who has seems to enjoy the same things a child likes...or a little girl.