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Sin & Punishment (Anticipating the Virtual Console)

Daigoro said:
its the simplest of all mods. you can mod either the cart or the system (easy and reccomended).

its a simple matter of shaving off some plastic notches so the cart fits in. it can be done with an exacto knife or similar sharp object. took me 10 minutes.

This brings up a question for me.

What about playing US games on a Japanese 64? I just got Sin and Punishment and will prolly buy a japanese N64 to play it on tomorrow. I am not even sure if I have my old US 64 so I am just curious for when I go back to the states...
 
Daigoro said:
go start your own topic. no need to troll Sin and Punishment. seriously.
I bought the game when it released and loved it. However, it just didn't hold up, to me, like the others I mentioned have. Trolling? :lol
 

Daigoro

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
I bought the game when it released and loved it. However, it just didn't hold up, to me, like the others I mentioned have. Trolling? :lol

Hedgehogging then. :p

i dont see how any of those other on rails shooter have any more replayability than S&P. you're opinion, sure. a silly one IMO <-!

glad you thought it was a 'nice little game' though. thanks for sharing!
 

Garcian

Member
Excellent thread - it's made me want to be at home with my copy; I'll have to hook up the N64 again over the weekend & have an S&P session.
 

Daigoro

Member
Garcian said:
Excellent thread - it's made me want to be at home with my copy; I'll have to hook up the N64 again over the weekend & have an S&P session.

my thoughts exaclty. only difference is my N64 is allready setup with this cart locked snugly inside.

now i just need to go home and turn her on.
 

Jasoco

Banned
Beezy said:
It's a gameplay vid of a 5+ year old game. Post it.

Okay then.

Here

It's the first level. Lets people who haven't seen it see what it's all about. I know it makes me want the game badly. :D
 
Jasoco said:
Okay then.

Here

It's the first level. Lets people who haven't seen it see what it's all about. I know it makes me want the game badly. :D
cool thx. This could also work on the DS, no? Automatic shooting while you touch the screen with the stylus, movement with d-Pad (or buttons for lefties), R for the sword thing (or is it automatic?
 
:Motorbass said:
cool thx. This could also work on the DS, no? Automatic shooting while you touch the screen with the stylus, movement with d-Pad (or buttons for lefties), R for the sword thing (or is it automatic?
That sounds like a fantastic idea. But, I can't imagine how they would use the dual screens effectively.
 

tanasten

glad to heard people isn't stupid anymore
U K Narayan said:
That sounds like a fantastic idea. But, I can't imagine how they would use the dual screens effectively.

The best way to use it would be using the down screen only for touchpad. Shoot and move using the down put, but play looking top screen. Something like Pyoro's game on the Wario Ware DS.
 

Maximilian

DIYMF Alumni
I agree with Polygone that this was one of the best 3 games on N64. I recently revisited it at a friend's who has S-Video cables and a 60 inch HDTV. Holy crap has this game aged well. Looks a little polygony but still looks pretty good. It's definitely one of my favorite games ever. It was TOTALLY locked into my N64, until the same buddy talked me into loaning it to him, only with the promise he'd go to hell and back to get me another copy if anything happened to mine. :D

Of course SF64 is good but S&P is better. I actually dug the music and found it very fitting to the game. There's also a cool two player mode where one person does the running and jumping, the other the aiming & shooting. Definitely helps take the heat off.

I heard a few rumblings that there was a version running on GC for North America but it got scrapped, so I'm curious to see what the game looks like when the VC hits. Even if this isn't true, they'll hopefully tweak the resolution and translate the menus for VC. Of course, I'll probably download (prolly first off too) it even if there's no improvements made whatsoever. I'm that big a nut.

EVERYone should download this one. It's the best. If Nintendo is retarded enough to not include this on VC, it'd be a sin, and punishment would be merited! (Sorry, couldn't resist)
 
From what I understand the reason NOA passed this over was due to the absolutely abysmal sales of Conker. NOA just wasn't ready to make a TEENY release of a game on EXPENSIVE carts. Everyone's loss...
 

Maximilian

DIYMF Alumni
It definitely makes sense. There was also another Tony Hawk game Nintendo was touting for the N64 right along with S&P at E3 2001 that didn't get make it out as far as I know.

That's why it better come to VC. Hopefully with some nice improvements. But as long as it comes and everyone who heard about it but never imported downloads it and raves about it causing Treasure to make a much needed sequel... I'll be happy. Heh.

Seriously though, this game SI TEH BEST!!1
 
Damn Polygone. You are nit-picking all of the games that I have never played, and feel real guilty about never doing so. I'm mean Rez, Sin and Punishment, and Panzer Dragoon Saga, these are all games that I've always wanted to play, but have never been able to. Star Tropics and Kid Icarus are also some more that I always wanted to play.
 

Zenith

Banned
just wondering, out of all the people pretending they don't have this and are going to import it/get it on the Rev straight away, how many have already downloaded it for an emulator?
 
Zenith said:
just wondering, out of all the people pretending they don't have this and are going to import it/get it on the Rev straight away, how many have already downloaded it for an emulator?
I'd buy this based on feedback here and elsewhere, but I've never played it, either by way of an original cartridge or an emulator, nor do I plan to.
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
Zenith said:
just wondering, out of all the people pretending they don't have this and are going to import it/get it on the Rev straight away, how many have already downloaded it for an emulator?
hey guys ive heard of this nicole bass chick but i havent seen her can n e one post pics???
 

Saoh

Member
fuck Treasure and their really-good-but-oh-so-short games :`(

i actually die alot playing Treasure games, just so i can replay the stages several times.
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
Saoh said:
fuck Treasure and their games
There are exceptions (Grad5, Ika) but yeah, I mostly agree with that.

Don't worry guys I'm probably going to order PS2 T Box with my next game purchase so maybe I'll like more than two of their games, someday.
 

chadums90

Member
Dragona Akehi said:
From what I understand the reason NOA passed this over was due to the absolutely abysmal sales of Conker. NOA just wasn't ready to make a TEENY release of a game on EXPENSIVE carts. Everyone's loss...

How poor?

Great writeup, PolyGone!
 

Bo130

Member
IIRC, S&P was one of the two games I never got around to try. I'm SO downloading it if possible - GO TREASURE :D
 
Nice writeup.

As for other stuff to bring on there, I can think of too many. Famicom Disk System stuff, BS-X stuff, even US bound Famicom games that had notable differences made in transition. Oh, and for both VC and XBox Live Arcade, or at least one or the other: practically anything and everything based on NAOMI. Ton of import shmupy and fighting goodness to be had over there, and you wouldn't have to shell out a ton for it either.
 

Hero

Member
So the reason we didn't get this game was because Rare sucked it up? Awesome.

If this comes to Virtual Console, I will happily purchase it. And almost any other Treasure game.
 

donny2112

Member
chadums90 said:
How poor?

It was released in March 2001 (i.e. eight months before the GCN launch). After about a year, it had sold about 300K, but its price was already reduced to ~$15. I don't know how many it sold at full price. It's total sales are probably equivalent to the re-release on the Xbox's sales.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
To the folks who don't have Sin and Punishment on the N64 and want to play it? Get it. The N64 is NOT region coded, and is a very simple mod to allow you to play imports.
(please keep in mind this is in regards to the NTSC US and JPN systems - I don't know how well PAL systems will handle a japanese game...)

That first scene where you morph into some super mech and fight against some other super mech was a OMGWTF moment for me. The whole screen is red, with this swirling vortex in the background, and this huge mech that has this whip-thing attached to its arm swinging at you while you make these sweet blur dashes from left to right dodging them and still shooting at the mech and holy shit look at beam that he just shot at me and OMGWTF!!!!

Yeah, that was fun.

I will admit that the game doesn't look as good as PolyGone's screens might make you think. Don't get me wrong - in S-Video S&P looks really good - but NOT as clean as those pics. This IS the Nintendo 64 we're talking about.

Oh. And that carrier stage IS the shizzle.
 
Sin & Punishment is great, but not as great as Star Fox 64... the linear nature of the game compared to SF64's branching paths hurts, as does the very short length. Still though, it certainly deserves the kind of praise it's getting here, and hopefully it'll show up on Virtual Console with optional English menus... it's definitely the best N64 game that wasn't released in the US.

It definitely makes sense. There was also another Tony Hawk game Nintendo was touting for the N64 right along with S&P at E3 2001 that didn't get make it out as far as I know.

Actually, not only did Tony Hawk 2 come out on N64 in mid 2001, but Tony Hawk 3 did as well, as the final N64 release, in September 2002 -- nine months after the previous N64 release in December 2001... but there were a bunch of late N64 games that did get cancelled or changed platform -- Resident Evil Zero, Eternal Darkness, etc.
 

White Man

Member
Nintendo's passing on releasing this game in the west is probably the single moment in which I lost the most respect for Nintendo. This would've been easy to localize, and it would've been a critical darling. Since it would've been a Nintendo release, Nintendo fans would be all over it. It would've sold well in the west.
 

Maximilian

DIYMF Alumni
Thread re-surfacing FTW!

I took this game on a trip with me and even though I hadn't gotten any sleep the night before, I played through to the end one night, mesmerizing all three of my friends watching who had never seen it before. All three of them were like "we must get a copy of this for ourselves!" So yeah, it better show up on the VC, sooner than later! I really feel strongly it will though, not only did it appear on that survey Nintendo had out awhile ago, they would be fools not to release it in North America with the opportunity of the Virtual Console. I heard that there were apparently offers made by other companies to publish it in North America for the N64 but Nintendo said no and wanted to hold on to the IP. Maybe they were planning for the VC even back then?

All they'd have to do is translate the menus & the ending. That's it. Though as I've stated before, I hope it gets spruced up a little in some form or another. If/when it does hit the VC, each and every one of you mofos better get it.

I'm kinda with Mr. Jones though, it's totally a game worth importing if there ever was one.

I hadn't played or beaten it in a little while, so playing on the trip got me hooked all over again. I started messing with the frameskip & turbo speed options, which make the game TOTALLY INSANE! A lot more fun too.

And while SF64 did have the branching paths, more levels and multiplayer modes, I still enjoy S&P a lot more, as the levels are brilliant and the enemies are just a progression into insanity. The levels are all quite quality and can be played in different ways to get better scores & therefore more lives.

That first scene where you morph into some super mech and fight against some other super mech was a OMGWTF moment for me. The whole screen is red, with this swirling vortex in the background, and this huge mech that has this whip-thing attached to its arm swinging at you while you make these sweet blur dashes from left to right dodging them and still shooting at the mech and holy shit look at beam that he just shot at me and OMGWTF!!!!

Ah yes, the boss fight with Kachua. One of my favorite boss battles ever! On hard it gets so crazy, because not only is she swiping at you, lasers are being fired and waves of blood/lava/kool-aid/whatever keep crashing over you and you have to jump over them.

It's really cool as on the harder difficulty settings, you see attacks and enemies you didn't see on the easier ones.

Actually, not only did Tony Hawk 2 come out on N64 in mid 2001, but Tony Hawk 3 did as well, as the final N64 release, in September 2002 -- nine months after the previous N64 release in December 2001... but there were a bunch of late N64 games that did get cancelled or changed platform -- Resident Evil Zero, Eternal Darkness, etc.

Oh yeah, that's right. I do remember that Tony Hawk game coming out. Thanks for the correction.
 
White Man said:
Nintendo's passing on releasing this game in the west is probably the single moment in which I lost the most respect for Nintendo. This would've been easy to localize, and it would've been a critical darling. Since it would've been a Nintendo release, Nintendo fans would be all over it. It would've sold well in the west.


It was planned for release by NOA with apparently a "large" marketing push, but after seeing Conker bomb as badly as it did, they got major cold feet. With over 250 000 expensive unsold Conker carts lying about, I can't say I blame them. Even though I still do.
 

Maximilian

DIYMF Alumni
It was planned for release by NOA with apparently a "large" marketing push, but after seeing Conker bomb as badly as it did, they got major cold feet. With over 250 000 expensive unsold Conker carts lying about, I can't say I blame them. Even though I still do.

Yeah, it got pimped in Nintendo Power & apparently NOA even had a website made up for it.

Dammit!

Well, good things (hopefully) come to those who wait.
 

pitt_norton

Member
JoDark said:
This game was likely never localized.

As mentioned, NOA were ready to get this game out to the states. In an interview with Treasure (over at game informer... do a search), Treasure stated that S&P had already received a full english translation. It's just sitting there on the shelf right now. C'mon VC!
 

Juice

Member
Would have been retarded for NOA to release the game. No way it would've turned a profit after the Conker debacle. Who cares if it's a great game? Not them, they're a business. Why does everyone always get so worked up without taking into account real life concerns?
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Honestly, the 300 people who think this game is "sooo coool" can import it. To me it was a rent (from a mate). I played it for a day, and soaked everything up. Cool but nothing to keep coming back to. Period. No point in Nintendo publishing 300,000 carts for this.
 

Deku

Banned
Great game. I'm not usually a Treasure/shooter freak but when I got this it held me for an entire week as I played it. It's too bad it was lost when I moved a few years ago.

I hope Nintendo brings it out on VC.
 

Maximilian

DIYMF Alumni
pitt_norton said:
As mentioned, NOA were ready to get this game out to the states. In an interview with Treasure (over at game informer... do a search), Treasure stated that S&P had already received a full english translation. It's just sitting there on the shelf right now. C'mon VC!

Well, except for the menus and the text of the ending, the game pretty much is in English. The voice acting is pretty decent too.
 

Maximilian

DIYMF Alumni
Shikamaru Ninja said:
Honestly, the 300 people who think this game is "sooo coool" can import it. To me it was a rent (from a mate). I played it for a day, and soaked everything up. Cool but nothing to keep coming back to. Period. No point in Nintendo publishing 300,000 carts for this.

Obviously, I'm a freak for this game, so I totally disagree. There's 3 difficulty levels with more to see on each one and the time it takes to beat all of those and unlock stuff like turbo mode is pretty substantial. Plus there's a 2 player mode and sooooo much to shoot that there's no way you can really get everything out of it in a day.

I've never been a perfectionist in games, though S&P made me work overtime for it. From finding out what little shit I could shoot to get more points to memorizing patterns of enemies to gun down as many as possible. I used to be a master at it, though I've let it slide by the wayside a bit.

It is short but very sweet & the replay value is definitely there.

And the cart publishing issue is a moot one at this point anyway. Whether or not it makes it to the VC is what we're all worried about.
 

TreIII

Member
I'd definitely like to play this game again. Played it to death over a friend's house a while ago...then we lost touch, so of course, that meant sayin' bye bye to that game too.

But I dunno...something tells me that even if they could, Nintendo and Treasure probably wouldn't end up placing this game on the VC. More than likely, Treasure would opt to make it a pack-in with another of their games (a future Wii title?) rather than try to sell it alone over the VC.

What do I think would really be on point though? If Treasure just got around to re-making the original game for the Wii, or even better, a sequel/follow-up that goes along the same story. The game engine itself looked like it could benefit from the Wii's interesting take on controlling things, any way...
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
TreIII said:
I'd definitely like to play this game again. Played it to death over a friend's house a while ago...then we lost touch, so of course, that meant sayin' bye bye to that game too.

But I dunno...something tells me that even if they could, Nintendo and Treasure probably wouldn't end up placing this game on the VC. More than likely, Treasure would opt to make it a pack-in with another of their games (a future Wii title?) rather than try to sell it alone over the VC.

What do I think would really be on point though? If Treasure just got around to re-making the original game for the Wii, or even better, a sequel/follow-up that goes along the same story. The game engine itself looked like it could benefit from the Wii's interesting take on controlling things, any way...

I think the chances of a VC release are pretty good. Whether or not they will add in english subtitles and menus is another story, but it couldn't be that hard with the dialogue already being spoken in english. There was a official VC mock up from Nintendo and S&P was on the list. I thought it was pretty much a given that it was coming.

There was also some speculation about a sequel being made:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63217&highlight=Sin+Punishment
Does anyone know anything else about it?
 

PolyGone

Banned
MadOdorMachine said:
There was also some speculation about a sequel being made:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63217&highlight=Sin+Punishment
Does anyone know anything else about it?

In an issue of Nintendo Power, December 2005, Masato Maegawa had this to say about Sin & Punishment:

NP: What about sequels to some of your other games such as Dynamite Headdy or Sin and Punishment?

Maegawa: Speaking of Sin and Punishment, we designed that game specifically for US gamers. We really wanted to release that title in the US. But Nintendo didn't think it would sell 500,000 units, and in the end, they decided not to publish it in the US. We are thinking of doing a sequel to Sin and Punishment, but we also have to keep business considerations in mind. So at this moment, we're not sure. We think US gamers would enjoy it, though, so we'd like to do a sequel.

In the same interview, he says Treasure is working with ESP (now just a publisher) on an original title, and says they are already working on a next generation title. "The specs are really high compared to previous systems. We are having a hard time deciding where we should stop (in terms of exploiting the hardware).

NP: Have you had any discussions with Nintendo regarding the Revolution?

Maegawa: We have started to talk about the Revolution with Nintendo, but not in any great detail. Please wait a little longer.

NP: Can you give us any hints on any of your upcoming titles?

Maegawa: Well, of course we've already announced Bleach for the Nintendo DS. We're also working on a new shooting/action title.
 

Deku

Banned
One thing in favor of VC availability is that the business model works especially well for these kinds of commercially quesitonable/risky games (in the mind of the publisher). Since there's no physical product to ship or inventory to manage, the cost to the publisher is tiny and they can afford to distribute the content even if they are convinced only a few people will be interested. Breakeven point will be low and since the game's dev cost is already sunk, any extra revenue they generate is free money.

I wouldn't expect this game to come out anytime soon however, as Nintendo will probably have to cycle through the usual suspects of N64 VC titles before they get around to S&P.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
Maximilian said:
Well, except for the menus and the text of the ending, the game pretty much is in English. The voice acting is pretty decent too.

Er... I was with you up until this point. Its sweet that the dialog was in english so I could understand the story.... but the script and VAs (like the heroine and that freakin' pikachu looking thing - ugh) were corny.

Man... I'm really trying to remember the story now...
 

loosus

Banned
PolyGone said:
Maegawa: Speaking of Sin and Punishment, we designed that game specifically for US gamers. We really wanted to release that title in the US. But Nintendo didn't think it would sell 500,000 units, and in the end, they decided not to publish it in the US.
Wow, they wanted 500,000 at least? I bet they'd settle for 50,000 today. Nintendo must've gotten too used to having all major hits on the Nintendo 64. Maybe GameCube brought them back into reality.

Having said that, I'm not sure that not localizing Sin and Punishment was such a bad idea. All things considered, it probably would've bombed.
 

Squeak

Member
mr jones said:
Er... I was with you up until this point. Its sweet that the dialog was in english so I could understand the story.... but the script and VAs (like the heroine and that freakin' pikachu looking thing - ugh) were corny.
Yeah, but corny in a good way! The story isn't really supposed to make so much god damned sense. It's just there to give the feeling of a story... the feeling of eighties anime, the feeling of adventure and to give some flow to the game.
 
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