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[Krusenstern]

The Elder Scrolls : The Dumbing Down
For anyone who is interested.

 

[Scrabble]

Why?

Because from a mechanical standpoint it's much better playing.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

Has anyone played Doom recently?

Lots of us still play Doom. The mod community is still going strong and people are still making new engines to interpret the original WAD files. It's one of the best games ever and I still play at least Knee Deep in the Dead on an annual basis.

 

[zma1013]

Perhaps PC stands for Politically Correct now.

 

[sugaki]

It's not as though I played 20 hours and said "Well, Skyrim is crap." I played through 3-4 characters and over 100 hours before the boredom of needing to craft to optimize melee and armor, or needing to enchant to optimize magic, or BOTH if you really want to perfect your character, and by that point the charm of the combat had worn off as well.

Erm, if you play any game over 100 hours it usually means it's a pretty darn good game. You spend dozens of hours on a game you hate.

 

[Xater]

I love Skyrim but come on... It's not even the best Elder Scrolls.

The combat is broken.
The story is awful.
They go for quantity over quality when it comes to questing. There are some interesting quest lines but nothing close to ones in Oblivion or Morrowind. BORING.
On the topic of quests. There's an illegal amount of side quests. Fetch quests. Alduiwho? Let me help this random peasant get drunk.
Dragons are a joke. Just sit there and watch townies kill them.

If they had to pick a TES game it should have been Morrowind.

Deus Ex
Diablo 2
Starcraft
Half Life 2
Bioshock
Total War series
Ultima 7
Minecraft
Civ 5

I'd pick any of these over Skyrim.

if they felt like they had to pick something modern (god knows for what reason) then Minecraft would have been a fantastic choice. It might not be my favorite game but I can certainly see the argument being made.

 

[NullPointer]

Those are just shacks that might have people in them. They most likely don't offer safe storage, which means at a certain point, everything you've stored in there will disappear and be replaced by things like bread and a leather helmet or whatever.

What did you hunt? What's even the point of hunting? It doesn't offer any notable experience, materials, or profit. Archery is fun, though you can't run backwards nearly as fast as Oblivion, so it can't usually be your primary mode of combat.
The dual-wielding boils down to nothing but spamming power attacks. You can't block, so you have to just stagger enemies. You can't power attack for very long, so you'll get stuck in the same cycle as every melee character, looking for ways to enhance your stamina. There's no nuance. There's no way to aim your attacks in any meaningful way, no skill-based parrying, your attacks don't feel very powerful (swinging a greataxe is always disappointing).

It's not as though I played 20 hours and said "Well, Skyrim is crap." I played through 3-4 characters and over 100 hours before the boredom of needing to craft to optimize melee and armor, or needing to enchant to optimize magic, or BOTH if you really want to perfect your character, and by that point the charm of the combat had worn off as well.

Shacks and caves with people in them, yes. They lived there. I took those places, used their gear and stored my items there. Have never lost anything.

Why did I hunt? Because it was fun, because I like to explore uncharted areas of my map, and I'd sell skins and materials, or craft potions and gear.

Archery and stealth *is* my primary form of combat. Bows for various occasions, poisons and backstabs. Running backwards has nothing to do with it.

And we're talking PC here, so mod support does matter and there are mods for just about anything you can imagine. For all I know there are hit location mods, as there are several different combat overhauls out there.

But hey, we got different things out of the game - that's fine. We probably wanted different things out of the game and I came out with something closer to my styles of play.

 

[YouEnjoyMySelf]

I wouldn't trust a place that choose MGS 4 as the 2008 GOTY twice.

Are you the infamous Full Action Center?

 

[chickdigger802]

Games with console UI should be disqualified from top 10. Just saying.

These top lists are good for one reason though. Gives you a good barameter if you give a shit about opinions from an outlet.

 

[Grief.exe]

The Elder Scrolls : The Dumbing Down
For anyone who is interested.

I like how he didn't even pick the low hanging fruit for that video, he chose to go deeper.

Games with console UI should be disqualified from top 10. Just saying.

These top lists are good for one reason though. Gives you a good barameter if you give a shit about opinions from an outlet.

Exactly why I stopped reading PC Gamer, I don't even go to their site for any reason.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Erm, if you play any game over 100 hours it usually means it's a pretty darn good game. You spend dozens of hours on a game you hate.

You do know you have that "maybe this will get better" feel too you know.

Also there's that pitfall where "you can't judge the game without playing it" and "how can you judge a game harshly with 100 hours into it"

 

[spirity]

I'm ok with this. I wouldn't have personally picked it as #1, but I don't feel any need to lose my shit over it either. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[SymbolicGamer]

Could have been worse. They could have chosen a Valve game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

For comparison, Oblivion actually managed to have a different MQ end-game throughout its game. Skyrim? LOL DRAGONS again.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

I don't think it was the best game to come out in November 2011, much less of all time.

 

[FACE]

Are you the infamous Full Action Center?

FACE is a pretty stupid name, isn't it?

 

[hemtae]

I liked Skyrim, but it isn't close to the best game on PC. It isn't even the best game in its own series.

Maybe mods added a bajillion points but then I would still rank Morrowind over it.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I'm guessing it's against the rules to post the full list?

 

[Dramos]

I do not agree on this. Where's my Starcraft?

 

[cleveridea]

Probably not my #1 game of all time, but I think someone can justify it as such.

The sheer amount of content and detail in the game is insane, and I found that the game can be played in lots of unique ways. I had a lot of fun just playing an illusionist mage, charming enemies and pickpocketing their stuff.

 

[Krusenstern]

Could have been worse. They could have chosen a Valve game.

Something that caught my eyes on your posts is that you always, always post pure shit. How come? Are you getting paid to post this crap? It's just mindblowing.

 

[antitrop]

FACE is a pretty stupid name, isn't it?

It's hard to take you seriously.

 

[Scrabble]

wat

what shit is this

If anything, Skyrim content is spoonfed for you than anything else, and has so much cinematic "effects" than you average JRPG.



Erm what, that's what exactly the outrage is about - because Skyrim is considered best despite all of the crap it has. Read again what you said.

I know what I said. Skyrim has flaws sure, every game does, but Skyrim's hate is a result of it's critical and commercial success. Now am I saying you aren't allowed to dislike Skyrim? Of course not, but the amount of vitriol it receives is ridiculous compared to much much worse games out there that never even get brought up. If I dislike a game I don't go into every thread it's mentioned and just continually say how bad it is and cite which games are infinity better. But when people see something they don't like continually receive praise they feel compelled to attack it as much as they can so they can bring it down a little. When people see the metacritic of Fallout 3 compared to the lower score of New Vegas, well that angers them, and to relinquish that anger they feel compelled to shout from the heavens at how awful Fallout 3 is compared to the masterpiece that is New Vegas. There are example like this all the time and it becomes tiresome really quickly.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I liked Skyrim, but it isn't close to the best game on PC. It isn't even the best game in its own series.

Maybe mods added a bajillion points but then I would still rank Morrowind over it.

Yep.

Hell, fully modded Oblivion feels livelier than fully modded Skyrim. I have more mods in Skyrim than Oblivion yet Oblivion feels fuller still.

I know what I said. Skyrim has flaws sure, every game does, but Skyrim's hate is a result of it's critical and commercial success. Now am I saying you aren't allowed to dislike Skyrim? Of course not, but the amount of vitriol it receives is ridiculous compared to much much worse games out there that never even get brought up. If I dislike a game I don't go into every thread it's mentioned and just continually say how bad it is and cite which games are infinity better. But when people see something they don't like continually receive praise they feel compelled to attack it as much as they can so they can bring it down a little. When people see the metacritic of Fallout 3 compared to the lower score of New Vegas, well that angers them, and to relinquish that anger they feel compelled to shout from the heavens at how awful Fallout 3 is compared to the masterpiece that is New Vegas. There are example like this all the time and it becomes tiresome really quickly.

It's successful despite its bigger flaws of being a step down and buggier (hell, PS3 issues). It shows that they can churn out things that are presentation-deep but be successful regardless.

And again, that's the idea - it's flawed yet successful. If Two Worlds gets very successful it would obviously have so much vitriol towards it. What would you think would happen if it posted a praising War Z article?

 

[DeadRockstar]

These days I would rather read a book of angst-filled facebook status updates from 13 year olds than PC Gamer.

Quake 3 at #44. I don't dare look where UT is.

 

[Mozendo]

I stopped paying attention to PC Game when they posted an article saying DayZ and WarZ gave birth to the survival genre.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Shacks and caves with people in them, yes. They lived there. I took those places, used their gear and stored my items there. Have never lost anything.

Why did I hunt? Because it was fun, because I like to explore uncharted areas of my map, and I'd sell skins and materials, or craft potions and gear.

Archery and stealth *is* my primary form of combat. Bows for various occasions, poisons and backstabs. Running backwards has nothing to do with it.

And we're talking PC here, so mod support does matter and there are mods for just about anything you can imagine. For all I know there are hit location mods, as there are several different combat overhauls out there.

But hey, we got different things out of the game - that's fine. We probably wanted different things out of the game and I came out with something closer to my styles of play.

No. Mods don't excuse poor combat. They really, really don't. I don't see how that makes any sense.

The thing about Skyrim is that you eventually realize everything is pointless. The game only offers challenge when it's in the form of bullet sponges, and defeating a bunch of bandits relies upon running away to recover your stamina and power-attacking them to death so they never get a chance to fight back (or upgrading recovery spells to also restore stamina). There's no nuance or satisfaction. It has a lot to do that you can do at your own pace. But there ultimately isn't a compelling reason to do it other than "because you can."

Erm, if you play any game over 100 hours it usually means it's a pretty darn good game. You spend dozens of hours on a game you hate.

What am I even reading?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Couldn't disagree more for reasons I'm sure have been gone over in this thread but from what I've seen this magazine is terrible these days.

 

[FACE]

It's hard to take you seriously.

I didn't choose this username, the username chose me.

Is it true that ME 2 is number 2 on PC Gamer's list? I think that might be worse than Skyrim at number 1.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Because from a mechanical standpoint it's much better playing.

Better mechanics, sure, but not as strong design. I can still enjoy all the euro jank out there without problem because of how refreshing these games are from a design standpoint. More so if they happen to be RPGs.

Edit: I would say the Rage has impeccable shooting mechanics that put STALKER's to shame, but the design of STALKER puts Rage's to shame. In the same way, Crysis 2 and 3 have better gunplay that Crysis, but they are nowhere near in the design standpoint.

 

[Arcteryx]

I stopped paying attention to PC Game when they posted an article saying DayZ and WarZ gave birth to the survival genre.

haha you'd think PC Gamer would remember "They Hunger": afterall, they put it on their demo discs multiple times("You are what I eat"...best song on a demo disc ever).

 

[Ganondorfo]

Disagreeing because Baldurs gate 2 is my favorite PC game of all time, but I understand why they didnt put as their best game of all time, most people today wouldn't care to play that game with that kind of graphics (not trolling, just stating the obvious).

 

[badb0y]

Skyrim is fucking boring.

 

[Stat!]

I did, actually! A couple of years ago, I think.
I had a blast.

But I really believe its nostalgia. Games are better than they were. If Doom came out as an Indie game, people wouldn't look twice and it simply wouldn't sell. Doom was ahead of its time when it came out, and a huge leap for FPS games. But it just isn't, when compared to the heavy hitters, as good from a technical and design standpoint.

Oh, and I don't mean to pick on Doom. I mean in general.

So while you may not agree with them you agree with them.

Fantastic.

I agree with the concept of putting Skyrim the top. I don't have a list of my top PC games, but I agree that Skyrim is a good choice at 1. I'm sure all their editors didn't put Skyrim at 1 but agree with that its a top PC game.

 

[red731]

I, uh, Skyrim? Of all the freakin' time?

How did someone say it...
The game is like an ocean, but just ankle deep?

 

[NullPointer]

No. Mods don't excuse poor combat. They really, really don't. I don't see how that makes any sense.

The thing about Skyrim is that you eventually realize everything is pointless. The game only offers challenge when it's in the form of bullet sponges, and defeating a bunch of bandits relies upon running away to recover your stamina and power-attacking them to death so they never get a chance to fight back (or upgrading recovery spells to also restore stamina). There's no nuance or satisfaction. It has a lot to do that you can do at your own pace. But there ultimately isn't a compelling reason to do it other than "because you can."

What am I even reading?

Ultimately every game is pointless if the act of playing it isn't rewarding for you. And that rewarding feeling doesn't have to come from points or achievements or townspeople screaming your name or the game world fundamentally changing.

And mods do matter, because people are using them now to add or modify the game to suit their particular tastes. Skyrim is mod friendly and has Steam Workshop support, so yeah, I include all mods into the mix. Thinking of the game purely in isolation at release without mods makes zero sense to me. Its a mod-friendly PC game, so all of it matters when it comes to how much enjoyment you get out of it.

We obviously approach these games with completely different mindsets.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Honestly, my issues with PC Gamer is mostly in their freelancers. Their core editors tend to be pretty good. I do think they suffered a blow with Dan Stapleton moving to IGN and losing Tom Francis to game developer moneyhats.

 

[Khronico]

The thing about Skyrim is that you eventually realize everything is pointless.

Exactly my experience. I played 40 hours of Skyrim before I hit that point. Nothing you do in that game makes any difference or impact on the world, except for killing off every NPC you can I guess. It's a soulless, empty game that has very few redeeming qualities.

 

[Slackbladder]

I liked it on release but with mods it's fucking epic!

 

[Toth]

Ever....? I had more fun playing Phantasmagoria than Skyrim

 

[wizard]

I've got a bigger problem with Diablo 2 not being on the list. Also the fact that Morrowind is behind Skyrim AND Oblivion. Fallout 1 & 2 > Fallout 3. Actually even New Vegas was better than Fallout 3.

I like the staff at PC gamer a lot, they have decent podcasts and post some interesting content. But I rarely agree with their opinions I mean they had war z ads on their site for months.

 

[fantomena]

Wait? What? Skyrim?

 

[Red Blaster]

ive tried multiple combat mods for skyrim and they're all flimsy bandages on a gaping pus-filled wound

 

[Neuromancer]

It is an excellent game.

 

[efeman]

I, uh, Skyrim? Of all the freakin' time?

How did someone say it...
The game is like an ocean, but just ankle deep?

Good way of putting it, I agree. I haven't played through any TES game prior to Skyrim (which I spent about 100 hours in); I obviously enjoyed Skyrim, but it certainly seemed shallow, and I think it's confirmed when I see what people write about the pros of the previous games.

 

[fantomena]

 

[funkystudent]

The Elder Scrolls : The Dumbing Down
For anyone who is interested.

Watched a few minutes and god damn thats a real elitist PC gamer wankfest.

I turned off at him saying KB+M = only choice for serious gamers

 

[ghst]

Has anyone played Doom recently? Doom was great for what it was, but it isn't close to what anyone would call a good shooter anymore.

no, it's nowhere near what would commonly be referred to as a "good shooter" of 2013. that's what makes it so great.

it's also cool. it's the first and only cool videogame.

 

[Hypron]

Saying a game that has shitty combat (and that relies so much on it) is the best game of all time just doesn't make any sense. At least this reminds me that I shouldn't take any of their reviews seriously.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Watched a few minutes and god damn thats a real elitist PC gamer wankfest.

I turned off at him saying KB+M = only choice for serious gamers

But it is a terrible UI for Skyrim. Who the hell uses a console UI for a PC format? Even ports are kind enough to make their UI responsive.