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[balladofwindfishes]

"It's the end of the world! I should get everything for free!" - Everyone on steam right now.

But seriously, Im ok with this as long as it brings quality content at an acceptable price and if the quality control is there from Steam.
Either way this is definitely going to bring about something, good or bad.

They're already batting 0 on your list. The quality is the same as it's always been, the prices are hilarious (some ancient spells that have been in the Elder Scrolls since the early days of Oblivion are the same price as an official Bethesda expansion pack) and quality control is non existent as anyone can set their mod to pay and theft is rampant in just the short time this has been active.

It's a disaster all around. Honestly they should just cancel the whole program, figure out a better system, and start again.

 

[justjim89]

It's basically "click to install this mod" and has no nuance beyond that. If you cared even the slightest bit about modding your game beyond that, Steam Workshop is only used if it's literally the only place you can get the mod.

Ugh, that's awful. Especially considering how many folks use a lot of mods and compatibility patches between them. I mean, my load order is probably more or less set as far as big mods go, unless something astounding comes along. But one mod or another going premium and eliminating free support could cause a domino effect with multiple other mods, whether they're paid or not.

Maybe this is just a testing ground since Skyrim, while having a highly active community, is more or less old news. Bethesda is almost certainly announcing a new Fallout or Elder Scrolls at E3, so I'm curious and scared as to what this means for that.

The team behind SKSE could end this entire thing instantly if they want to. Almost every mod with any sort of complexity to it uses SKSE, and if they prohibit people from using their work to sell mods, you can say goodbye to this entire thing.

That would be incredible. But if something big like that happens that puts the kibosh on this whole thing, Bethesda could probably either throw together some kind of in-house script extender or go after the SKSE team in some capacity, because it could mean a lot of lost potential revenue.

 

[Mithos]

I see, thanks.

Gopher should have a video showcasing this (steam workshop mods + MO) on his youtube channel.

 

[The Llama]

The team behind SKSE could end this entire thing instantly if they want to. Almost every mod with any sort of complexity to it uses SKSE, and if they prohibit people from using their work to sell mods, you can say goodbye to this entire thing.

Would be hilarious to see that just for the lulz tbh.

 

[Bornstellar]

Ugh, that's awful. Especially considering how many folks use a lot of mods and compatibility patches between them. I mean, my load order is probably more or less set as far as big mods go, unless something astounding comes along. But one mod or another going premium and eliminating free support could cause a domino effect with multiple other mods, whether they're paid or not.

Maybe this is just a testing ground since Skyrim, while having a highly active community, is more or less old news. Bethesda is almost certainly announcing a new Fallout or Elder Scrolls at E3, so I'm curious and scared as to what this means for that.

It means selling a single-player game as a service.

 

[Almighty]

Gopher should have a video showcasing this (steam workshop mods + MO) on his youtube channel.

I will have to check that out if I ever get in the Skyrim mood again. It doesn't sounds like it will be too hard so that is a positive I guess.

 

[Bornstellar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=23&v=--L103omK_A

That was fast.

 

[Netherscourge]

It's on the OP. The owners of the works can issue a DMCA takedown notice.

Can you issue a DMCA notice without a copyright filed for your work?

How many modders file with the US Patent and Trademark Office? (assuming they're US-based) Or will Valve just do their own investigation and decide on their own without a DMCA?

(I honestly don't know. I'm curious if there are any real LEGAL rights involved here or if it's all "honor system" stuff.)

 

[WetTreeLeaf]

They're already batting 0 on your list. The quality is the same as it's always been, the prices are hilarious (some ancient spells that have been in the Elder Scrolls since the early days of Oblivion are the same price as an official Bethesda expansion pack) and quality control is non existent as anyone can set their mod to pay and theft is rampant in just the short time this has been active.

It's a disaster all around. Honestly they should just cancel the whole program, figure out a better system, and start again.

It's literally the first day, Im sure Valve will come in and clean stuff up. I also dont expect the content to jump in quality in the first day either since I doubt anyone knew this was coming out today. Give it a week or so before we all jump overboard.

 

[Falcs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=23&v=--L103omK_A

That was fast.

Lol! Beautiful!

 

[Bornstellar]

It's literally the first day, Im sure Valve will come in and clean stuff up. I also dont expect the content to jump in quality in the first day either since I doubt anyone knew this was coming out today. Give it a week or so before we all jump overboard.

Yeah, false. Every one of the initial paid mods posted had about a month of lead time.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It's literally the first day, Im sure Valve will come in and clean stuff up. I also dont expect the content to jump in quality in the first day either since I doubt anyone knew this was coming out today. Give it a week or so before we all jump overboard.

Valve specifically collected some mods and got it all organized as the first paid mods and two of the mods ended up having content in them they weren't allowed to sell.

So Valve isn't the best at cleaning this up.

 

[Kalnos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=23&v=--L103omK_A

That was fast.

That was actually very well done haha

 

[The Llama]

Valve specifically collected some mods and got it all organized as the first paid mods and two of the mods ended up having content in them they weren't allowed to sell.

So Valve isn't the best at cleaning this up.

tbf that wasn't exactly their fault, as if I understand it correctly it wasn't until the system actually launched today that the other mods said it was improper to use their content in mods that are sold (that's wordy as hell but I think you'll get it?).

That said, its Valve so LOL they won't do anything fast.

 

[Netherscourge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=23&v=--L103omK_A

That was fast.

lol

Nice singing btw.

 

[Fotheringay]

As if the arguments over mod authorship weren't ferocious enough before money was involved. This stinks to high heaven, an absolutely atrocious implementation, and the fact that they're taking 75% for essentially just streamlining the payment system seems nuts as well.

 

[MUnited83]

Can you issue a DMCA notice without a copyright filed for your work?

How many modders file with the US Patent and Trademark Office? (assuming they're US-based) Or will Valve just do their own investigation and decide on their own without a DMCA?

(I honestly don't know. I'm curious if there are any real LEGAL rights involved here or if it's all "honor system" stuff.)

You have copyright rights the moment you create something. You don't need to file with the US Patent and Trademark Office.

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”

 

[Almighty]

The team behind SKSE could end this entire thing instantly if they want to. Almost every mod with any sort of complexity to it uses SKSE, and if they prohibit people from using their work to sell mods, you can say goodbye to this entire thing.

I wouldn't want to be the people behind that. I am imagining they are getting slammed with a bunch of "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope." messages right now.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

This is a good idea in principle and as a developer Im in favor of it, but I hate it as a consumer, heres my reasoning:

For one, the percentage of profit is ludicrous. 25% is way too damn low. Its close to the "well pay you in exposure" excuse artists get all the time in freelance requests. This percentage will only benefit the massive success stories and will not be enough for anybody else to make a living out of.

Two, it rewards the original developer (Bethesda, in this case) for releasing unfinished, unoptimized, broken games. First they charge you upwards of $60 for a game that modders need to fix, the modders fix it, charge you more money and Bethesda rewards greatly from minimum effort. Gamers are already being nickeled and dimed by huge corporations and this only makes it worse.

Third, remember all those well intentioned modders that just wanted to help? Well, theyre gone now. Except for very rare exceptions you will find out that most mods will want some kind of reimbursement for their efforts. Now, as a developer myself I think thats a good thing, but you can forget about the days where you would play around with 10/15 different mods, that aint gonna happen again unless youre willing to shell out serious money. The super low percentage of money modders entices them to overcharge so that they can get a more decent cut, so mods will be overpriced for sure.

 

[Arkage]

Or will Valve just do their own investigation and decide on their own without a DMCA?

Oh yea I'm sure free-range Valve employees are chomping at the bit to become copyright hunters. Just like they love doing customer service tickets.

 

[Kusagari]

As much as I understand and appreciate mod creators getting paid for their work, I can't ever see myself willingly paying for the number of mods I've used in Skyrim.

This is going to drastically change how most of us play Bethesda games on PC unless we shell out serious cash.

 

[Arkeband]

The fact that Bethesda can now take a cut of modders profits means there's incentive for Bethesda to leave the finished game as un-finished as possible to allow for maximum additional profit.

The best game they could release would be a blank slate with tons of modding capabilities and let people go nuts. They sell a $60 game (or maybe $150 with their ridiculous collectors editions) and then a constant stream of player-made DLC to make the water prettier, or the grass better, or add better dungeons, or in Skyrim and Oblivion's case, fix bugs.

People who are okay with this precedent are delusional. This isn't something the free market will shake out - this is a paradigm shift. Your Elder Scrolls 6 will be a barren template for you to throw more money at to make into the game of your choice.

The entire draw of these games was infinite moddability - now that will be limited by how much money you make in real life. I remember my creative software engineering spark stemmed from hex-editing Morrowind mods. That wouldn't have been possible for me as a kid if they had cost money.

 

[RK9039]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=23&v=--L103omK_A

That was fast.

From nexus mod page:

Everyone has full permission to upload to steam and monetize it.

I just want to point out that I am all for capitalism, hell I am a frigging pure capitalist myself. This is not so, this idea was a spark when I was yapping with people in the Skyrim Reddit IRC. What steam is doing is not in any way capitalist, it is exploitation, it is greed, it is stupid. People will be pirated, people are charging way too much for crap, people will be illegally using 'student' or pirated versions of 3D tools which steam cannot enforce, but will profit from. Mod authors will not see a dime until steam makes 400, 300 of which they will keep, if they make 399.99 steam keeps it all, split with bethesda of course. There is no 100% confirmation of the 75/25 split but neither has there been any declaration of the split so we are left to wonder. Capitalism is good, this is just plain s**t. When they do not announce their profit % among other things clearly, then there is a problem.

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop

Good luck though. most likely we will be ignored, mod authors will sign up because they will justify pennies on the dollar as worth it.

Far wiser men than me wrote a long long time ago
"And accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

And we will see it happen, and they will tell you 25% is better than 0%, but that is not so, because you are giving up 75% of yourself to the pieces of crap who did almost none of the work, just provided tools. Epic provides UE4 at 5% of total sales, that engine is far better than the CK, and they ask 15 times more just for hosting and allowing you the 'privilege' to sell your mods. I know people have said, "o not be down on people who choose to sell'', well selling at those rates is just wrong, no matter the legality. You should be ashamed to give up your work for such pittance, have some self respect at the very least.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mod...age=1&sort=DESC&pid=0&thread_id=2793739&pUp=1

 

[BennyBlanco]

The fact that Bethesda can now take a cut of modders profits means there's incentive for Bethesda to leave the finished game as un-finished as possible to allow for maximum additional profit.

The best game they could release would be a blank slate with tons of modding capabilities and let people go nuts. They sell a $60 game (or maybe $150 with their ridiculous collectors editions) and then a constant stream of player-made DLC to make the water prettier, or the grass better, or add better dungeons, or in Skyrim and Oblivion's case, fix bugs.

People who are okay with this precedent are delusional. This isn't something the free market will shake out - this is a paradigm shift. Your Elder Scrolls 6 will be a barren template for you to throw more money at to make into the game of your choice.

I don't like this news at all either but this is crazy. Bethesda makes a ton of money on console versions that will be unaffected by this for starters.

 

[cdyhybrid]

tbf that wasn't exactly their fault, as if I understand it correctly it wasn't until the system actually launched today that the other mods said it was improper to use their content in mods that are sold (that's wordy as hell but I think you'll get it?).

That said, its Valve so LOL they won't do anything fast.

It's entirely their fault. They know that modders care deeply about how/when/who uses their work in other mods (which is why every major mod on Skyrim Nexus has a section outlining who can use that mod in their work and when), and they didn't follow through with making sure their selected mods were entirely in the clear.

I don't like this news at all either but this is crazy. Bethesda makes a ton of money on console versions that will be unaffected by this for starters.

Not enough money, apparently.

 

[baterism]

Donate button would be the ideal for mod situation. Or, reduce the price to 25% and all goes to the modders.

Honestly, I'm not giving a cent to Bethesda and Valve, hell why should I? I have gave them when I buy the game.

 

[Bornstellar]

It's entirely their fault. They know that modders care deeply about how/when/who uses their work in other mods (which is why every major mod on Skyrim Nexus has a section outlining who can use that mod in their work and when), and they didn't follow through with making sure their selected mods were entirely in the clear.

For anything beyond adding an armor set or weapon, it's pretty much an insurmountable task to figure out all the people who have contributed in some way to a mod.

 

[Griss]

Someone desperately needs to do a paid mod for Recettear, lol.

"Changes menu music: $50.00"

 

[Corpekata]

The fact that Bethesda can now take a cut of modders profits means there's incentive for Bethesda to leave the finished game as un-finished as possible to allow for maximum additional profit.

The best game they could release would be a blank slate with tons of modding capabilities and let people go nuts. They sell a $60 game (or maybe $150 with their ridiculous collectors editions) and then a constant stream of player-made DLC to make the water prettier, or the grass better, or add better dungeons, or in Skyrim and Oblivion's case, fix bugs.

People who are okay with this precedent are delusional. This isn't something the free market will shake out - this is a paradigm shift. Your Elder Scrolls 6 will be a barren template for you to throw more money at to make into the game of your choice.

The entire draw of these games was infinite moddability - now that will be limited by how much money you make in real life. I remember my creative software engineering spark stemmed from hex-editing Morrowind mods. That wouldn't have been possible for me as a kid if they had cost money.

Wha? This is an absurd scenario. TES sells well on PC, sure, but Bethesda is still aimed largely the console space. They aren't going to attempt to actively harm their game in order to get in some modders' pies when huge chunks of their audience don't have access to them in the first place.

I know people like to go "Skyrim's a shit game that's only playable with mods" but the game is HUGELY popular even without them.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

For anything beyond adding an armor set or weapon, it's pretty much an insurmountable task to figure out all the people who have contributed in some way to a mod.

Then selling mods in impossible.

 

[Bornstellar]

Then selling mods in impossible.

.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Yep..this is going over as well as a wet fart in the Nexus & other modding communities I frequent.
I can't expect too much to appear on the paid Workshop. A ton of mods depend on other mods in order to function. All it takes is one person to say "No" and the whole thing is scuttled.

It would be hilarious if the SKSE team dropped the hammer. Skyrim would be knocked back to the stone age.

 

[cdyhybrid]

For anything beyond adding an armor set or weapon, it's pretty much an insurmountable task to figure out all the people who have contributed in some way to a mod.

Yep, which is why this whole thing is stupid.

Wha? This is an absurd scenario. TES sells well on PC, sure, but Bethesda is still aimed largely the console space. They aren't going to attempt to actively harm their game in order to get in some modders' pies when huge chunks of their audience don't have access to them in the first place.

I know people like to go "Skyrim's a shit game that's only playable with mods" but the game is HUGELY popular even without them.

Surely you can understand why people are against this, though. The (modded) Elder Scrolls series is one of the great PC open-world RPG franchises, losing it to console-and-no-mods-only would be a huge loss.

 

[VariantX]

Yep. I'm sure there won't be any issues when they get the thousands of mods out there onto the workshop like I'm sure they're envisioning though!



The team behind SKSE could end this entire thing instantly if they want to. Almost every mod with any sort of complexity to it uses SKSE, and if they prohibit people from using their work to sell mods, you can say goodbye to this entire thing.

It would definately either force a better set of tools to be made by bethesda or another group of modders.

 

[WetTreeLeaf]

Yeah, false. Every one of the initial paid mods posted had about a month of lead time.

Valve specifically collected some mods and got it all organized as the first paid mods and two of the mods ended up having content in them they weren't allowed to sell.

Well then ... It's the end of the world!

Best case scenerio: great mods come out and everyone loves it! What will most likely happen is that it will slowly die off like Games For Windows LIVE.

 

[Drkirby]

They're already batting 0 on your list. The quality is the same as it's always been, the prices are hilarious (some ancient spells that have been in the Elder Scrolls since the early days of Oblivion are the same price as an official Bethesda expansion pack) and quality control is non existent as anyone can set their mod to pay and theft is rampant in just the short time this has been active.

It's a disaster all around. Honestly they should just cancel the whole program, figure out a better system, and start again.

As far as I can see, mods don't go straight to the sales floor, they have a cool off period where they can be declined to be put on sale. I am confident Valve will be able to work out issues with mods making use of other people mods without the proper permissions (And it will likely be in the form of letting modes request something gets removed from sale, and possibly collect reparations)

Also, if there is over priced junk on the market, people are just not going to buy it.

 

[EroticSushi]

So what happens exactly if the devs decide to push out an update and half the mods end up not working?

 

[cdyhybrid]

It would definately either force a better set of tools to be made by bethesda or another group of modders.

Good luck. It's hard to build a pyramid on top of a swamp of shit.

In related news, your favorite mods are being neutered so that the mod makers can make money off them :')

Better quality mods for everyone!

 

[Corpekata]

Yep, which is why this whole thing is stupid.



Surely you can understand why people are against this, though. The (modded) Elder Scrolls series is one of the great PC open-world RPG franchises, losing it to console-and-no-mods-only would be a huge loss.

Of course I can understand it. Doesn't mean people need to go all Chicken Little about the topic though.

 

[McBryBry]

Bad idea. Mostly because modders aren't getting shit.

But then, look from my perspective. I'm a poor college student with a shit job. I saved for well over a year in order to get a computer capable of heavily modding my favorite game, Skyrim. Now, I have to pay for that to? It already took forever to build the machine, i can't afford to buy the stuff people have been making free for years.

 

[Almighty]

Yeah I am not sure people should be celebrating just yet. Usually when there is money involved this stuff sorts itself out. It just takes some time. Still though if I thought modders could be whiny man babies when it came to who can use what and who gets credit for what toss some money into the mix and we will be getting the show of the century.

People should also also be worried that even if they can't figure out Skyrim future Bethesda games won't have this same problem. If paid mods are a thing from the start all those issues would be hammed out pretty quickly.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Of course I can understand it. Doesn't mean people need to go all Chicken Little about the topic though.

Nah, if people don't push back at the slightest hint of fuckery these corporations will walk all over their customers.

 

[BeesEight]

Honestly I am willing to engage in large scale mods that offer a significant or extensive changes. But paying for all those tiny sword or armor mods piecemeal seems like a hassle to me. The pack currently offered seems a bit steep based on what it is offering.

This might encourage modders to get together and offer a large mod, but now that it isn't free inevitably you're going to get issues with attribution or not being able to use some mods with others simply because now there is a tiered system.

Yeah, I honestly see this as the only workable outcome for me.

I'm thinking of things like Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul or Nehrim as the sort of good that could come from this system. These would be complete game overhauls that you don't expect to have much--if really any--compatibility with other mods that aren't built specifically for them. If this system produces grand sweeping works like that, it could be a net positive.

Only problem is that it doesn't launch with that and its current iteration is really nothing I'd want to buy from. I think it's incredibly silly to charge $2.50 for a piece of armour or a sword. It's a strange sort of DLC avenue that, had Bethesda done it on its own, I would have been displeased with as well. I suppose the horse armour was a prime example and something I didn't get.

However, I still purchase Bethesda's actual expansions. So hopefully we'll see this system promote large, comprehensive content offerings and not just a nickel and dime scheme for old, one-off content. I know, at this moment, I'll simply continue to download and play with the free stuff.

 

[Aldurin]

Definitely gonna move "eventually complete Skyrim for real" farther down my to-do list, since the modding experience is arguably an essential part of Skyrim for PC, and now the price tag for any combination of mods I want could very easily exceed the price of the game or even the reasonable ratio of cost versus content added.

The pricing system is probably gonna be broken for a while, since a standard of how much a certain amount of content is worth is definitely not going to happen immediately, and modders will likely feel pressured to overprice their mods just so that their 25% cut feels worth the effort of being involved in this system.

I am looking forward to those occasional cases of modders that act like assholes dredging back up as the ones still involved in the Skyrim circuit set mod prices that rival the development software Steam sells.

 

[hiex_]

This seems pretty stupid. What do you bet we'll be seeing Nexus mods taken and put up as paid for on Steam, whilst the free versions are reported. And 25%? Crazy.

 

[mbmonk]

Somebody needs to do a horse armor mod and sell it.

Bethesda...
*Darth Vader Noooo.gif*

 

[cdyhybrid]

This seems pretty stupid. What do you bet we'll be seeing Nexus mods taken and put up as paid for on Steam, whilst the free versions are reported. And 25%? Crazy.

Already happening.

 

[aliengmr]

I've cooled a bit on this, but I still think there are clusterfucks waiting to happen.

But if modders want to charge, fine. Not much we can do to stop it and its likely to hit all workshop titles eventually. But, at least for me, money = quality. The expectations have changed now.

So when I hear quality "might" Improve, that should be no question. Its not unfair to want to be paid for your work, but its not unfair for me to expect more for that.

This is just Skyrim, which I played a lot, but could avoid from now on. I am much more worried about all the other games that have Workshop mods.

 

[Catshade]

If you think 25% cut is too low, don't worry...modders may have another avenue for revenue:

lets plays for skyrim that has the paid content in it, it might let the those mod authors to flag the video to get the ad money

(taken from Nexus)

 

[cdyhybrid]

I've cooled a bit on this, but I still think there are clusterfucks waiting to happen.

But if modders want to charge, fine. Not much we can do to stop it and its likely to hit all workshop titles eventually. But, at least for me, money = quality. The expectations have changed now.

So when I hear quality "might" Improve, that should be no question. Its not unfair to want to be paid for your work, but its not unfair for me to expect more for that.

This is just Skyrim, which I played a lot, but could avoid from now on. I am much more worried about all the other games that have Workshop mods.

Yep. If I'm paying for a Skyrim mod I'm expecting something on the level of Dawnguard or Dragonborn, and I can count on one hand the number of mods I'd put in that category.