There is a way to make a living off modding: apply for a dev job.
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Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
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There is a way to make a living off modding: apply for a dev job.
There's some severe "the free market will fix itself" and Invisible Hand arguments being thrown around in this thread.
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Valve and Bethesa are exploiting the consumers and the modders. It's not about modders being paid for what they do or the market regulating itself. It's about how two huge companies are directly exploiting the labor of modders and the money of consumers.
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Valve and Bethesa are exploiting the consumers and the modders. It's not about modders being paid for what they do or the market regulating itself. It's about how two huge companies are directly exploiting the labor of modders and the money of consumers.
biglittleps
Member
They should give at least 50% or 75% to creators but not just 25% for their work. I don't think valve taking 75% is fair.
This whole debacle is just another cash grab from the publisher and valve. Anyone arguing that someone can live off 25% of the total mod's sales is dreaming. Even then, the worse part is bethesda is sitting on their asses doing nothing while your hard work gets them double the cut you got. They already sold who knows how many extra copies because of the modding community, and now they want more.
Mavromatis
Member
Free mods are possible and I assume all the tricks currently used in play store and similar will apply to these; free and donation version of the same mod, ad version vs premium version, light vs pro version and so on.
Your "mod" is the base of many mods for Dark Souls so I wonder will you be taking the path of SKSE and allow everyone to use your mod in their paid mods or block them if Dark Souls get the same treatment with Skyrim.
As for the sky falling I remember people bashing Steam for cards but now everybody trade them as they if they were there from birth.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Oh please. In this very thread, people repeatedly refer to modding as something fueled primarily by passion. And you know what? That's very true, at least in my case.
Modders do stuff that a company would never do because they don't see a business case for it, or because they are done with a game, or simply because they haven't thought of it yet. You generally can't do that while working at a company.
I can afford to mod because I have a decently paying, unrelated, "real job", anda living situation which leaves me with some free time here and there. Not everyone is in such a fortunate position. (And for me it also means that often I make less progress than I would like)
I also posted about this previously in the thread:
That's from the consumer perspective, and as for modders this step doesn't preclude any opportunities they already had -- it just opens up a new one. I do agree that the shares are disproportionate, which is just another reason for a modder to weigh up whether to use the service.
If any option -- like free mods, or patreon -- was to be taken away rather than just a new one being added I could share your concern.
You know, there was a time where i thought Steam was an amazing thing.
That was years ago. All they seem to do now are events aimed at squeezing money from people (the useless card system), deals that are actually worse than the ones that sites like greenmangaming do, and finally trying to monetize on mods with horrible % cuts.
I hope for a decent competitor, because im starting to loathe Steam.
Also.... if any other company did that, the hate would reach insane levels. People should really stop to idolize Steam and Gabe.
That was years ago. All they seem to do now are events aimed at squeezing money from people (the useless card system), deals that are actually worse than the ones that sites like greenmangaming do, and finally trying to monetize on mods with horrible % cuts.
I hope for a decent competitor, because im starting to loathe Steam.
Also.... if any other company did that, the hate would reach insane levels. People should really stop to idolize Steam and Gabe.
I'm aware. I'm saying that when you expect to (and do) get compensated for it, it ceases to be modding. Modding is a hobby, it's not a job. Getting compensated to improve a game is game development.
Forgive me for lacking optimism that the company that perfected the microtransaction will continue allowing free mods in the future, when they have a financial incentive to do the opposite.
when did you come up with this definition
When I modded my games for years and years.
if another modder opposed your definition what would be your reasoning
Do you have an example or are we just arguing hypotheticals?
Dota has had microtransactions for years and yet the game has tons of announcer/hat mods that work to this day.
I'd be worried about seeing more mods that are cynical in nature and chase after money rather than the creative ones that are driven by passion or a desire to see a certain feature. Valve is going with their typical "let the market sort it out" approach but do they really need to take 75%?
Removing the option to have donations instead of the payment system is also pretty scummy on their part.
Removing the option to have donations instead of the payment system is also pretty scummy on their part.
DOTA mods are purely cosmetic, and have zero effect on actual gameplay.
alright. i've been modding for a couple of years, let's say i disagree
So what's your argument other than "I disagree"?
TF2 doesn't crash if you're not using those hats.
That percentage didn't really surprise me, that percentage is the same percentage that Valve gives community contributors when they get items in TF2/CSGO/DOTA2.
I follow TF2 pretty closely, including going to forms where item contributors post and I've never really seen anyone complain about that percentage.
Of course with TF2/CSGO/DOTA2 Valve takes the rest of the 75%, while I imagine with this the 75% is split between Bethesda and Valve.
work has been done and a product has been created and seeking the compensation for the work and resulting product is not unreasonable
but with dote/tf2/cs go's user created items, valve can guarantee curation and a ready audience
I don't know about that, if it takes off like hats in TF2. I'm sure people won't mind making six figure incomes (literally quoting Chet when he did an appearence at EGX).
Dota just replaces skins, go outside of new armor weapons in a game like Skyrim and it's very easy to crash your game, and not because mods are poorly made, but because it creates compatibility issues with how the game itself works.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
You were implying that selling user generated DLC will mean that Valve won't allow free modding, which has not been the case with Dota.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Not like I don't understand that modders would like to be paid for their work, but god fucking dammit am I tired of being nickel and dimed for every shitty little thing.
Bornstellar
Member
Origin is pretty good man. And they actually have customer service worth a damn.
My issue isn't the current implementation, it's the possible implications for future workshop implementations, although as an aside it's pretty lame that a mod I used to use has become as expensive as buying an actual expansion pack from bethesda. My issue is that the future implementation of this system is obviously at some point going to disallow hosting free mods on the workshop. Maybe not for Skyrim but for fallout 4, or another game that's still upcoming. I know this sounds like the sky is falling prophesizing, but I don't see a publisher deciding that it's going to allow free content when it could be making "cash money" off of the backs of third party content creators. Dota2 has no free items, CS:GO has no free items (on the "item store") etc... It isn't hard to imagine this becoming the status quo for a lot of games. This seems like a giant test project to me, not for wether they can actually offer remuneration to content providers but for testing the possibility for adding third party dlc microtransactions to otherwise free to mod games.
TL;DR: I would not be suprised if that free mods link dissapears from the workshop page of upcoming games.
TL;DR: I would not be suprised if that free mods link dissapears from the workshop page of upcoming games.
To be fair it's a reality which kind of worked pretty well for the past few years.
What prevented them from seeking compensation for their work prior to this?
You have a much greater incentive to use Skyrim mods than to buy DOTA hats, because Skyrim mods fix things that Bethesda released in a broken state. That's the problem.
I found this article by PC gamer in which they interview people who actually create and sell mods, unlike me or probably most posters in this thread. I think it's well worth reading. It even includes a modder who apparently had his passion refueled rather than stifled by the prospect of earning something.
What's your argument for the definition you just made up? I think the onus is on you. See that article up above? It talks about modders earning money.
legal licensing
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
The only thing I don't like about this is how this changes my relationship with mods and without doubt it will also change modders relationship with modding(as in the general vibe around modding communities).
Not sure if that change is a good thing.
There was something very pure about modding exactly because the only payoff it had was the joy of modding itself + maybe the joy of players using your mod.
On the other hand maybe that's not valuable enough? And it's worth trading that for modders being able to dedicate themselves to mods more.
Probably I might just be an old man holding on to misguided values. But it's still hard to change that for me when I grew up with mods just being an expression of pure love to a certain game.
Oh well let's just see how this will turn out.
Not sure if that change is a good thing.
There was something very pure about modding exactly because the only payoff it had was the joy of modding itself + maybe the joy of players using your mod.
On the other hand maybe that's not valuable enough? And it's worth trading that for modders being able to dedicate themselves to mods more.
Probably I might just be an old man holding on to misguided values. But it's still hard to change that for me when I grew up with mods just being an expression of pure love to a certain game.
Oh well let's just see how this will turn out.
Years upon years of that being the reality? Why should that article mean anything to me when everything I have seen until today indicates the opposite?
Putting uncompensated work in your portfolio is illegal?
CybernatonEvolution
Member
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=430749163
That escalated quickly in an ugly way.
That escalated quickly in an ugly way.
no but you did specifically say seeking compensation
Is getting hired (and thus paid) for your game development skills (exemplified in the mods you created in your free time) not compensation?
not a compensation for the product, no
You still aren't adressing what I wrote about how this is about Valve and Bethesda exploiting modders and consumers and that we should be furious about their actions.
Tough shit. You don't see Adobe requiring a cut from graphic designers who already paid for Photoshop and use it to make work for their portfolios.
Cropduster89
Neo Member
I think basic idea of modders getting paid some money for their stuff is perfectly reasonable, but this implementation is basically garbage for the consumer and the modder. Especialy when you may have to spend hours dealing with crashes and compatibility issues on any mod more more complicated than a reskin.
I mean even the best skyrim mods are generally clunky and can sometimes take hours of tweaking getting them to play nice with all your other mods. Not to mention their reliance on other free tools like SKSE or Fores. They're still not professional level products that hold up to retail standards. There is no gurentee they are stable, compatible, or that they will work in 3 months.
If Valve/Bethesda (for whom tbh this is basically money for old rope) give the modders sometining like >80% then they can recoup their time at a more competitive price for the consumer. Successful mods will help valve/beth's sales passively anyway.
I probably would pay 5 quid for frostfall, RND&D or skyre, things that actually add to gameplay. God knows they made me play more skyrim than any of the DLC. But for everything on my mod list? Nope. It's nexus I feel sorry for, the guys who have supported the modding scene for years before big companies cared.
I have a .rar with a stable version of my data folder somewhere anyway if I ever feel like reinstalling skyrim. I wonder if that's piracy now.
I mean even the best skyrim mods are generally clunky and can sometimes take hours of tweaking getting them to play nice with all your other mods. Not to mention their reliance on other free tools like SKSE or Fores. They're still not professional level products that hold up to retail standards. There is no gurentee they are stable, compatible, or that they will work in 3 months.
If Valve/Bethesda (for whom tbh this is basically money for old rope) give the modders sometining like >80% then they can recoup their time at a more competitive price for the consumer. Successful mods will help valve/beth's sales passively anyway.
I probably would pay 5 quid for frostfall, RND&D or skyre, things that actually add to gameplay. God knows they made me play more skyrim than any of the DLC. But for everything on my mod list? Nope. It's nexus I feel sorry for, the guys who have supported the modding scene for years before big companies cared.
I have a .rar with a stable version of my data folder somewhere anyway if I ever feel like reinstalling skyrim. I wonder if that's piracy now.
I did actually. This is an additional option for modders which they can voluntarily pursue (or decline). I don't see how adding an option exploits them.
Now, as I said in the other thread, if it is in fact true that they are removing donation links from free mods then that is something to be legitimately furious about.
You've moved the goalpost off the field entirely by now.
licensing of a productivity tool and the value of a derivative modification is not even remotely comparable, lol. not even as a fundamental concept
edit: was that your final reasoning? "Tough Shit"?
Inkvoterad
Member
Lol, fuck this. Just add a donation button like Nexus or some shit.
You can only ask me the same question so many times. I already said people not getting compensated for their work is a problem in this very thread, but that's an intellectual property problem that's magnitudes bigger than gaming. Under the current system, that's how it goes. Sorry.
It sucks, but that's how it is.
The Skyrim Creation Kit and the game itself (that you use to test the mod) are productivity tools, if your product is a mod.
I've gone further in depth earlier in the thread, but essentially, in the current climate regarding unpaid work and intellectual property - yes, tough shit. If you want to be paid for your work, don't release it for free.
Additionally, don't ask for the same concessions given to enthusiasts that do the work in their free time while expecting to be compensated like a professional.
then in that comparion i should be able to sell works made with the "tool", just as a designer can sell works made with adobe's tools
Curated stores are fine. This sort of free for all approach for Skyrim isn't going to benefit the consumer.
I fear Cities:Skylines is next.
But this is equivalent to the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument. It doesn't actually address the criticism of a corporate action that is directly exploiting (75%!!!) the work of modders and the money of consumers. It's a typical free market argument that approaches the topic solely by focusing on money and whether or not people willingly go into immoral and exploitative practices.
Valve and Bethesda should be criticized heavily for this. Instead people are missing the forest for the trees by thinking this has anything to do with modders getting paid for their work.
Right, but in that comparison Adobe isn't the only production tool you can use. Valve and Bethesda can essentially prevent anyone from making mods without giving them a 75% cut of the profits now.
no, valve+bethsoft's licencing only reaches as far as their products go, you're still free to mod games that aren't valves or bethsoft's. Bethsoft games aren't the only games you can mod. but what does this have to do with the fact that compensated mods are still, for all intents and purposes, mods?
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