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[Cynar]

I'm thinking about it, but there would be a lot of moaning afterward about losing "only" because the other person got a Starman or Heart Container or something. I can't decide whether or not that would be so annoying that it's not worth it.

Run a bunch of different tourneys with different rules then. I'll play in any of them as I'll just be excited to finally have the copy in my greedy little hands.

 

[Threi]

It's better to play on random. You never know who you will eventually kick ass with. That's how i got introduced to my #1 ass-kicker, Ness.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

what the fuck.

btw, since we're getting close to release. How soon should the tourney be after release? 2 weeks? 4 weeks? Waiting too long will give us something similar to Pokemon where the second tournament was a complete and absolute bust.

I want to do a Singles tournament and Doubles after that.

How long did you wait after release for D/P ?
Maybe you should consider organizing the first tournament really soon after the US release, even if Euro importers such as myself might not get their copy early enough to join. Brawl doesn't require as much preparation/training anyway, it's much less time-consuming compared to Pokemon.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

i like tournaments. But isn't the lag really big when we (EU) play with US people? I could never play on the team fortress GAF servers because of the lag

 

[Firestorm]

Pokemon was a couple of months after I think. Like 3 months? But like you said, it took like a month for people to create teams due to the tedious breeding process. I guess we'll see what the European release is. If it's within a month after US release, it'd be better to wait I think.

I'm hoping the lag isn't too bad. This is a fighting game after all =(

 

[HK-47]

Item arguments are retarded, stop having them.

God, swear some the dumbest shit I've ever seen happens during Smash discussions...

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Item arguments are retarded, stop having them.

God, swear some the dumbest shit I've ever seen happens during Smash discussions...

Get off your high horse for a minute. It's pretty reasonable to have a discussion what rules the tournament is going to use.

 

[HK-47]

Get off your high horse for a minute. It's pretty reasonable to have a discussion what rules the tournament is going to use.

Yeah except it never turns out that way. Its always a pissing match over who is playing the "true" way.

 

[Firestorm]

Get off your high horse for a minute. It's pretty reasonable to have a discussion what rules the tournament is going to use.

It's never about tournaments. It's always about in general. People who love items need to figure out it's not the only way to play smash. There are more than one. The only way to play smash wrong is if you're not having any fun.

The tournament I'm planning will have no items. Only way I'm changing my mind is if Nintendo has changed the way in which items spawn.

 

[dfyb]

Get off your high horse for a minute. It's pretty reasonable to have a discussion what rules the tournament is going to use.

it's just that this argument has already gone through multiple epic battles.

btw, it should be no items for competitive play

but this is neogaf and we could probably just run two tournaments. i'd join both.

 

[Cynar]

I play in tourneys with no items etc, but it's still a blast to play with them on with friends and such. I just love smash brothers so I'll play with whatever rules people want(minus changing the damage multiplier, handicaps, gravity or speed of the game). :lol

 

[nli10]

I'm going to create my own league.

THE ANYTHING GOES LEAGUE

Items, cheap tactics, 4-player brawls

obviously the champion would be the baddest of badasses

And blackjack?

Blackjack and hookers.

Yeah - only forget the tournament.

And the Blackjack.

Ah screw the whole thing...

 

[papelnabangka]

Wow, Olimar's moves are so varied and random :lol

Damn, too excited for this game. Those cute Pikmin ghosts though,

Nintendo is so sinister sometimes. They hide behind this cute veneer but the gameplay mechanics is so brutal in alot of thier games.

 

[MisterHero]

Yeah - only forget the tournament.

And the Blackjack.

Ah screw the whole thing...

:lol :lol :lol

I finally got webrunner's response.

Such an awesome quote.

 

[dfyb]

we should also do a neogaf ranbats. for each official neogaf tourny, as an example - first place winners get 10 points, second place winners get 8 points, third place gets 6 and so on (5th place gets 2 points). we'd then keep track of who has the most points. after 6th months or a year, leader could get a prize or something.

could even scale different tournaments' worth - as an example:

itemless tourny -
1st - 10
2nd - 8
3rd - 6
4th - 4
5th - 2

item tourny -
1st - 5
2nd - 4
3rd - 3
4th - 2
5th - 1

2v2 tournies could work -- just split the winnings (possibly award half points for item tournies or whatever).

so if you won 2nd place in an itemless tourny, 3rd place in an item tourny, and 5th place in a item doubles tourny, you'd have 11.5 points.

 

[scottnak]

Hell. It wont matter what your preference is. This game is going to keep on giving. There will always be a pocket of people who will want a certain style. The tournaments will be endless!

{"tourney safe" stages, "crazy stages only", all stages, ...} with { all, no healing, HAMMER ONLY!, no, ... } items, with {insert awesome restriction here}

And then we can have the neoGAF brawl Iron man challenge where each teir of the tourney involves a different style of play. The possibilities are eeendless!

 

[Holy Order Sol]

{"tourney safe" stages, "crazy stages only", all stages, ...} with { all, no healing, HAMMER ONLY!, no, ... } items, with {insert awesome restriction here}

We should figure a way to decide of that restriction randomly, too.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

I'm sorry, when is Smash Bros. launching in Japan again?

 

[Cynar]

I'm sorry, when is Smash Bros. launching in Japan again?

Jan 24th

 

[Gekkonidae]

The tournament I'm planning will have no items. Only way I'm changing my mind is if Nintendo has changed the way in which items spawn.

Well the main reason that items were removed in the first place were exploding crates which were identical to good crates and could not be turned off. It appears that in this game exploding crates are different than real crates and therefore there can be recognized and/or turned off from the rest of items.

Certainly this should lead to the competitive items question at least being revisited.

 

[dfyb]

Well the main reason that items were removed in the first place were exploding crates which were identical to good crates and could not be turned off. It appears that in this game exploding crates are different than real crates and therefore there can be recognized and/or turned off from the rest of items.

Certainly this should lead to the competitive items question at least being revisited.

i don't buy that "exploding crates" crap. whether or not it'll explode is just as random and unbalancing as the items that come out of the crates in the first place.

 

[twilitesparklemotion]

I had decided not to look at the Smash Bros. website anymore until the game came out. Then I decided against that. I'm so glad I did.

OLIMAR YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS OLIMAR

 

[Jiggy]

could even scale different tournaments' worth - as an example:

itemless tourny -
1st - 10
2nd - 8
3rd - 6
4th - 4
5th - 2

item tourny -
1st - 5
2nd - 4
3rd - 3
4th - 2
5th - 1

And the random characters best 3 of 5 round robin could be worth three times the itemless tourney. The only true One awesome way to prove Smash skill is by mastery of all the characters and the general mechanics.

 

[Mockingbird]

Was anyone here able to pre-order this for $20 during the mistake period? GAHHHH I'm pissied that I missed out.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Jan 24th

Thanks!

 

[superbank]

what the fuck.

btw, since we're getting close to release. How soon should the tourney be after release? 2 weeks? 4 weeks? Waiting too long will give us something similar to Pokemon where the second tournament was a complete and absolute bust.

I want to do a Singles tournament and Doubles after that.

4 player free-for-all items tourney 2 days after release... The servers might be totally fucked that soon after though. We'll see.

1 vs 1 no items tourney 2 weeks after release. Maybe with a VC gift prize.

 

[Jiggy]

Was anyone here able to pre-order this for $20 during the mistake period?

I did. I was feeling grumpy for getting woken up early by sounds outside, but in hindsight it worked out for the best.

 

[SexConker]

If it's random, it's fair, and hence, balanced.

It's not like Mario will get double the healing from food items, or Snake will have a homing super scope. Sure, there were minor variatons in some of the items in Melee, like how a character used the beam sword, but nothing that ruined the balance of the game.

The random explosions are awesome.
I kill myself because of it all the time, and I still love it.

It's just some more incentive to throw a box/barrel/capsule at someone, instead of at your feet. If it has items, they're closer to them. If it goes boom, they go flying. If you throw it at your feet, you get easy access to delicious items 7/8s of the time, but 1/8th of the time, you pay for that privilege.

It was perfect.

Predicting when and where items will occur and be easy/hard to obtain adds one more layer to the game. You can use items offensively, defensively, as bait, as distractions, whatever. It allows you to play in so many different ways.

When items are off, you have one task, and you go at it like a sex deprived teen.

 

[Firestorm]

If it's random, it's fair, and hence, balanced.

It's not like Mario will get double the healing from food items, or Snake will have a homing super scope. Sure, there were minor variatons in some of the items in Melee, like how a character used the beam sword, but nothing that ruined the balance of the game.

The random explosions are awesome.
I kill myself because of it all the time, and I still love it.

It's just some more incentive to throw a box/barrel/capsule at someone, instead of at your feet. If it has items, they're closer to them. If it goes boom, they go flying. If you throw it at your feet, you get easy access to delicious items 7/8s of the time, but 1/8th of the time, you pay for that privilege.

It was perfect.

Predicting when and where items will occur and be easy/hard to obtain adds one more layer to the game. You can use items offensively, defensively, as bait, as distractions, whatever. It allows you to play in so many different ways.

When items are off, you have one task, and you go at it like a sex deprived teen.

I'd argue why your logic is flawed, but I am tired of this argument.

 

[zaccheus]

Predicting when and where items will occur and be easy/hard to obtain adds one more layer to the game. You can use items offensively, defensively, as bait, as distractions, whatever. It allows you to play in so many different ways.

who the fuck even does this?? why would you even want to? items are on to add randomness, no one is going to sit in a corner counting down til an item pops (if its even possible)..

the whole reason items are not allowed by tourneys (im in no way arguing for them) is because of the random occurrences.. ive seen items spawn off the side of the stage even.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

Playing with items is as fun as playing without items. People just have to realize that they're DIFFERENT kinds of fun and that some people just don't like to have fun in some ways.

But you know, since when do people have level arguments about videogames? We all think our taste and opinion is right, because thats human nature and shit, if I cant be right about whats fun in a fucking videogame then I really must suck at life.

 

[Jiggy]

You can use items offensively, defensively, as bait, as distractions, whatever. It allows you to play in so many different ways.

So you're arguing that mindgames don't exist when items are off? I mean, you're basically saying that these things--defensive play, bait, and distractions--are made possible ("allowed") by items.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

If it's random, it's fair, and hence, balanced.

If it's random, it has nothing to do with skill.

 

[_Alkaline_]

An EB games in Canada shows Brawl being delayed till March.

Im getting a bit worried now - several sites are showing a delay.

 

[TreIII]

If it's random, it has nothing to do with skill.

Does it not? Really?

I mean, I would think it would take just a good deal of skill to be able to work with whatever the environment has to give you, as would be the case in any other facet of Smash. In a nutshell, that's what makes Smash what it is...things that could ONLY be summed up as random-ness that's beyond player control/effect.

For instance, back in the original Smash, you still had those damn cyclones on the Hyrule Castle, which would sometimes like to be bastards and speed up randomly. Could you do anything about it? Nope, but you could try and maybe work it to your advantage, if the opportunity presented itself.

Honestly, the only things that really require no skill at all, and are practically infallible in their utility, are the starmen. But that's because that's due more to the nature of the starman itself (which is 15 seconds of complete invulnerability).

 

[KittenMaster]

If you aren't going to play in a high level, skill based tournament, then there's no reason to argue about items since it wouldn't matter to you anyway.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

If it's random, it has nothing to do with skill.

If randomness contributes to a state during which one person is able to skillfully master items better than another, then does it not have to do with skill? Is it not equal between each mode then, if one uses skill, and the other mode uses skill? How do you measure which is more correct?

 

[Tim-E]

An EB games in Canada shows Brawl being delayed till March.

Im getting a bit worried now - several sites are showing a delay.

Dear god, please don't start this shit again.

 

[Papercuts]

After seeing his moves I want to try to make a custom stage that is two different rooms connected with a very small tunnel, just big enough for the pikmin to be thrown through.

I doubt this will end up working though.

 

[Jiggy]

I'll say this about items: if they're turned on at all, I think they should almost always be set to very high to minimize the possibility of too many favorable items spawning near one player and not near the other. If the screen's perpetually overloaded in all areas with a plethora of items for each character to pick from, there's quite a bit less to complain about even for the most diehard advocates of fairness.

 

[Tathanen]

Playing with items is as fun as playing without items. People just have to realize that they're DIFFERENT kinds of fun

This is the only guy who gets it. Everyone else needs to stop talking about this before they hurt themselves.

Personally, I would argue that anyone who plays one way exclusively is doing themselves a disservice, as they're specializing in a fashion that could hurt their ability when faced with an unexpected situation. Why in god's name does one have to be "superior" to another? They are both entirely valid ways to play and enjoy the game, both require different player strengths and techniques, and specialization in only one will result in a player who will never be as good as a player who masters both.

If you have no interest in "being the best," you're perfectly allowed to prefer one over the other. But there is no objective superiority to champion here. For each gameplay potentiality you can find in an items match, there's a distinct one in a no-items match. Both are great for their own reasons.

So you're arguing that mindgames don't exist when items are off? I mean, you're basically saying that these things--defensive play, bait, and distractions--are made possible ("allowed") by items.

He didn't say that at all, don't be silly. He's merely noting that items provide those options as well, as opposed to destroying any semblance of structure with their horrifying randomness.

 

[Mockingbird]

Man, I can't wait for smash to be online so all the big talkers can back their shit up.

On the plus side (though negative side for some people), wal-mart is now honoring the price mistakes so I ended up not mnissing out on a deal. I did manage to pre-order Brawl today at CC though, so I'll be getting a $10 gift card free when I pick up my reserved copy =)

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Man, I can't wait for smash to be online so all the big talkers can back their shit up.

Seconded. I can't wait to see who really is best of the best.

I think two weeks is a fair amount of time to get everything unlocked, at least for the itemless tournament. As for the itemed tournament? I guess whenever the item crowd decides is a good time is fine with me.

 

[Jiggy]

He didn't say that at all, don't be silly. He's merely noting that items provide those options as well, as opposed to destroying any semblance of structure with their horrifying randomness.

If he said that, I would agree with it, but I honestly don't think that's what he meant. If the part I quoted wasn't enough to convince me of that, look at the next sentence:

Predicting when and where items will occur and be easy/hard to obtain adds one more layer to the game. You can use items offensively, defensively, as bait, as distractions, whatever. It allows you to play in so many different ways.

When items are off, you have one task, and you go at it like a sex deprived teen.

It looks to me like he's doing a compare/contrast, where when items are on you can play in "so many different ways" but when items are off there's only one way.





Edit:

Man, I can't wait for smash to be online so all the big talkers can back their shit up.

I can't wait for Smash to be online so that I can actually see some big talkers in the first place. 1053 pages of thread, I'm pretty sure I've read every word, and the only people I can remember claiming to be pros are Dr. Hadji and ant1532.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Wow, this latest page is full of delay talk and item/no item talk.

Failcake.

Again, different kinds of fun. Just because you like to use items doesn't mean you aren't good or hardcore.

 

[KittenMaster]

There is no other tier list.

Spoiler

Genesis Does

:

Sonic

Spoiler

What Nintendon't!

:

Pit
Wario
ZSS
PT
P&O
Diddy
Meta knight
Sonic
Lucas
DeDeDe
Mario
Link
Samus
Kirby
Peach
Zelda
Fox
DK
Yoshi
ICs
Bowser
Pikachu
Ike

 

[Iam Canadian]

The item arguments are the lifeblood of this thread.

That and the stage arguments, the control method arguments (whatever happened to the anti-Gamecube controller guy?), the Krystal arguments, the tournament arguments, and the delay arguments.

I love this thread.

 

[HURGHT]

I'm wondering how the 64 friend-code cap (and the process of registering each other as friends in general) is going to impact all these dreams of creating GAF tourneys.

But then, I'm sure it'll only require a little patience. I know for sure that I'd like to be a part of it all.

 

[Jiggy]

There is no other tier list.

Spoiler

Genesis Does

:

Sonic

Spoiler

What Nintendon't!

:

Pit
Wario
ZSS
PT
P&O
Diddy
Meta knight
Sonic
Lucas
DeDeDe
Mario
Link
Samus
Kirby
Peach
Zelda
Fox
DK
Yoshi
ICs
Bowser
Pikachu
Ike

Where's Snake fit in on this hierarchy?

The item arguments are the lifeblood of this thread.

That and the stage arguments, the control method arguments (whatever happened to the anti-Gamecube controller guy?), the Krystal arguments, the tournament arguments, and the delay arguments.

I love this thread.

Clones!

 

[KittenMaster]

Where's Snake fit in on this hierarchy?

Oh, fine.

Spoiler

Genesis Does

:

Sonic

Spoiler

What Nintendon't!

:

Pit
Wario
ZSS
PT
P&O
Diddy
Meta knight
Sonic
Lucas
DeDeDe
Mario
Link
Samus
Kirby
Peach
Zelda
Fox
DK
Yoshi
ICs
Bowser
Pikachu
Ike

Spoiler

MSX

:

Solid Snake