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So, Capcom and the Switch: what's going on exactly?

Btw what Capcom is doing with MH is fucking stupid. This is your biggest IP, why are you not normalizing releases and platforms.m? Why on earth do you want to develop separate games on seperate platforms for 2 different regions when you can consolidate your efforts and produce 1 game across all platforms and build trust in the product? If you want people to follow your series they should be able to expect all the major releases on the established systems.

Splitting the franchise into portable and home console after just getting away from that is a terrible idea. MH on 3DS was the most focused the brand has been.

It's extraordinarily stupid to do this. Consolidate the base on hardware andnmove from there. So either MH is now for PC/X1/PS4 only (dumb, ignores your biggest market) or partition the franchise while using more resources for no reason (also dumb).

Shit is baffling.
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
Btw what Capcom is doing with MH is fucking stupid. This is your biggest IP, why are you not normalizing releases and platforms.m? Why on earth do you want to develop separate games on seperate platforms for 2 different regions when you can consolidate your efforts and produce 1 game across all platforms and build trust in the product? If you want people to follow your series they should be able to expect all the major releases on the established systems.

Splitting the franchise into portable and home console after just getting away from that is a terrible idea. MH on 3DS was the most focused the brand has been.

It's extraordinarily stupid to do this. Consolidate the base on hardware andnmove from there. So either MH is now for PC/X1/PS4 only (dumb, ignores your biggest market) or partition the franchise while using more resources for no reason (also dumb).

Shit is baffling.
Especially now that with World they have a game that seems like it could run decently across all platforms.
 
The thing is if we use this logic then Need For Speed Most Wanted U would have sold very well due to a limited amount of Wii U games. The game was a fantastic port and released at a time to itself but it didn't sell. And I think when you say Killzone Shadowfall,and that's a good point, but the difference is Switch offers these console experiences on the go so it has more incentive. This isn't the usual home console after all(I'm terrible at explaining my argument so sorry).

Well, of course the limited options doesn't guarantee your game will succeed. I didn't say that. I just feel having more limited options propagates games to higher successes than they would otherwise achieve, on more competitive platforms.

I think the Wii is a huge testament to that. The lack of third parties really accentuated the success of Nintendo's first party titles. The platform wasn't competitive, very few consumers were buying anything but Nintendo's games.
 

mao2

Member
Capcom is a stupid company, because more often than not they back the wrong horse: they gave Nintendo the Resident Evil franchise back in Gen 6; Monster Hunter to a second-place handheld w/ 50% of the DS's userbase; Monster Hunter *console* to Nintendo's worst home system historically; throwback offerings (Disney Afternoon Collection/Mega Man Legacy Collection 2) to ecosystems that weren't even conceptually realized when those games were released originally; and finally Monster Hunter World to an audience who undoubtedly will represent the worst month-to-month user/sales dropoff in franchise history.
Porting Monster Hunter series to PSP was a massive success for Capcom though. The series exploded in popularity after the release of the Portable spin-offs. In fact, Monster Hunter Freedom 3 (Monster Hunter Portable 3rd) on PSP is still the best selling title in the series to date and the 5th best selling title in Capcom's history @ 4.9 million units, despite being released only in Japan.
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/finance/million.html

Also, Capcom gave Wii Monster Hunter 3. Was Wii "Nintendo's worst home system historically"?
 
Well, of course the limited options doesn't guarantee your game to success. I didn't say that. I just feel having more limited options propagates games to higher successes than they would otherwise achieve, on more competitive platforms.

I think the Wii is a huge testament to that. The lack of third parties really accentuated the success of Nintendo's first party titles. The platform wasn't competitive, very few consumers were buying anything but Nintendo's games.

1/2 of the software sold on the Wii was third party games :/
 
1/2 of the software sold on the Wii was third party games :/

Somehow that myth just won't go away. Over half a billion units of third party software were sold. The Wii was massively profitable for basically ever third party out there. They used Wii profits to fund more expensive HD games for PS3 and 360.
 
Somehow that myth just won't go away. Over half a billion units of third party software were sold. The Wii was massively profitable for basically ever third party out there. They used Wii profits to fund more expensive HD games for PS3 and 360.

I get people don't like the Wii but making shit up is not necessary.
 

seady

Member
They will still need to release games like Phoenix Wright and portable Monster Hunter, so Capcom will still need Nintendo system to make profit.
 
Somehow that myth just won't go away. Over half a billion units of third party software were sold. The Wii was massively profitable for basically ever third party out there. They used Wii profits to fund more expensive HD games for PS3 and 360.

The profit Ubisoft made from making Wii games were used for the development of PS3 and Xbox games Lol.
 
Somehow that myth just won't go away. Over half a billion units of third party software were sold. The Wii was massively profitable for basically ever third party out there. They used Wii profits to fund more expensive HD games for PS3 and 360.

It doesn't go away because it's not untrue? 1/2 of software sales is not a lot for third parties. On other platforms, like the PS4, PS2 etc. the vast majority of software sales are driven by third parties.

If it was massively profitable why did most third parties produce a small number of Wii games, in comparison to other platforms? Why would they turn that prospect down if the ROI was as high as you say?
 
You were talking about MH World, not 3rd party games in general. Of course Capcom has done pretty well on Nintendo systems more generally too going back with Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Mega Man, Ace Attorney, Okami and others.

Tri and 3 (Wii) U were both considered global hits by Capcom and highlighted to investors. The home/handheld console distinction is increasingly irrelevant when you're talking Japanese companies, and even more irrelevant when you consider Switch is a hybrid console that can service both segments fully.

Here is my quote again

Or since it is open world it may have to do with the ram. Hence capcom asking for more ram. Third parties prefer if things are easier to port. Given the history of third party performance on nintendo consoles they may not be willing to jump through hoops.

If I was specifically referring to Capcom I would have put..... "Capcom". If I was referring to a specific title I would have stated the title. I was talking in general. But even if we are talking about specifics here, we are going to need to get into numbers because you are just stating some odd stuff here.

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/finance/million.html

Like I pointed out before ever MonHun on handheld represent the best sales. We are talking between 3 and 4 million units on the high end. The Wii has one of the largest install base in gaming history over 101 million units to date. Monster Hunter Tri sold 1.9 million units. Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate didn't even hit a million units so it didn't make the list. If you seriously believe that Capcom was happy at their franchise not even managing to hit 3 million on the Wii that had such a large base or the Wii U entry not even hitting a million, then I don't know how you are perceiving this situation.

And I am not even sure if you are being serious about the "no distinction" between handheld and home console in japan.

EDIT:
Somehow that myth just won't go away. Over half a billion units of third party software were sold. The Wii was massively profitable for basically ever third party out there. They used Wii profits to fund more expensive HD games for PS3 and 360.

Actually no, if you look at the numbers basically the only third party franchise to surpass 2 million units on the Wii was Just dance. That is right. ONE third party title. And not many in between 1 mill and 2 mill. If third parties were making a profit, with sales like those that goes to show the budget of those games and the correct assessment that they would be on the lower end and a million seller would be rare.
 

Calm Mind

Member
Somehow that myth just won't go away. Over half a billion units of third party software were sold. The Wii was massively profitable for basically ever third party out there. They used Wii profits to fund more expensive HD games for PS3 and 360.

This is an important fact that gets glossed over amidst the console warrior BS. The Wii was a blessing to 3rd party publishers. And what did they do with those blessings? Absolutely nothing. All they have show for it is microtransactions, GOTY editions and pre-order culture.

What a waste.

Back on topic, Capcom and many other 3rd party holdouts will scramble to support the Switch in 2018 as expected.

Personally, I believe Nintendo deserves better for all the effort they've put in so far and how far they've come.
 
very few consumers were buying anything but Nintendo's games.

This

It doesn't go away because it's not untrue? 1/2 of software sales is not a lot for third parties. On other platforms, like the PS4, PS2 etc. the vast majority of software sales are driven by third parties.

If it was massively profitable why did most third parties produce a small number of Wii games, in comparison to other platforms? Why would they turn that prospect down if the ROI was as high as you say?

Is not the same as this.

500 million is not very few. Consumers bought third party games 1:1 with Nintendo software. The reason why Nintendo games make up such a huge portion of sales is because they by far were the systems biggest and best supporter. But implying third parties didnt sell a lot of software on the Wii is wrong.

The fact that Nintendo first party is infinitely better than Sony as far as sales is concerned is really irrelevant. Lots of third party games sold on the Wii. That's a fact.
 
This is an important fact that gets glossed over amidst the console warrior BS. The Wii was a blessing to 3rd party publishers. And what did they do with those blessings? Absolutely nothing. All they have show for it is microtransactions, GOTY editions and pre-order culture.

What a waste.

Back on topic, Capcom and many other 3rd party holdouts will scramble to support the Switch in 2018 as expected.

Personally, I believe Nintendo deserves better for all the effort they've put in so far and how far they've come.

The craziest thing about the Wii hate is that if the system was a fad that sold no software a large chunk of games we got last gen on PS3 and 360 would not even exist. Carnival games could be shit that sold 5 million units but the profits sure as hell werent reinvested back into the Wii. Where do people think that money went?
 

DMiz

Member
I think Capcom is biding their time. They aren't in a financial situation that permits them to ignore the positive word of mouth and sales that the Switch is getting. However, PS4 still stands as the king in terms of audience numbers, and it's who they have to hit if they ant to stay afloat for the time being.

Once the Switch manages to nab a few more sales milestones, I imagine we will see Capcom come around and say that they've got a few titles cooking in the oven.
 

Mafro

Member
Seems like, after the Wii U, they weren't expecting the Switch to be as popular as it. Same goes for most other devs by the looks of things.
 
It doesn't go away because it's not untrue? 1/2 of software sales is not a lot for third parties. On other platforms, like the PS4, PS2 etc. the vast majority of software sales are driven by third parties.

If it was massively profitable why did most third parties produce a small number of Wii games, in comparison to other platforms? Why would they turn that prospect down if the ROI was as high as you say?

Where are you getting that from? There were an enormous amount of third party titles made for the Wii, that's how you wind up with half a billion sold when no single title sold more than 5 million. They didn't turn down that prospect, they put all sorts of cheaper/budget games on the platform and they all sold well.

And I don't see why the ratio of sales should matter at all to publishers. It's the actual amount, the actual volume of sales which they are interested in, not the ratio of first to third party.

Actually no, if you look at the numbers basically the only third party franchise to surpass 2 million units on the Wii was Just dance. That is right. ONE third party title. And not many in between 1 mill and 2 mill. If third parties were making a profit, with sales like those that goes to show the budget of those games and the correct assessment that they would be on the lower end and a million seller would be rare.

No, there were several >2 million sellers- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

Several Just Dance titles sold over 4 million, Guitar Hero, the Michael Jackson game, RE4 all sold 2 million or more, and there were a hell of a lot between 1 and 2 million.
 
No, there were several >2 million sellers- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

Several Just Dance titles sold over 4 million, Guitar Hero, the Michael Jackson game, RE4 all sold 2 million or more, and there were a hell of a lot between 1 and 2 million.

I stated not many, because there are 20 third party titles on that list. There are 1524 titles released for the Wii.

Lets break this down...

1524 titles released
96 titles published by Nintendo (meaning 1428 third party titles)
Total Wii games sold as of March 31, 2017: 917.85 million

If you say 50% of those sales are third party that leaves roughly 459 million units. That averages to 321K units per title.

But wait. We are not done, there are over 20 third party titles we know to sell over 1 million units. Their combined numbers are 34.7 million units sold makes the average for the rest 300k Per title. Again as I stated before, that should speak volumes to the quality of games and expectations of sales on the Wii if third parties budgeted the game to make a profit in those sale averages. Regardless of which consoles benefited from such a maneuver, that is painting a picture of third party expectations from a Nintendo home console.
 
This



Is not the same as this.

500 million is not very few. Consumers bought third party games 1:1 with Nintendo software. The reason why Nintendo games make up such a huge portion of sales is because they by far were the systems biggest and best supporter. But implying third parties didnt sell a lot of software on the Wii is wrong.

The fact that Nintendo first party is infinitely better than Sony as far as sales is concerned is really irrelevant. Lots of third party games sold on the Wii. That's a fact.

Proportionate to other platforms? Yes it's very few that were buying third party on the Wii.
 

le.phat

Member
This is an important fact that gets glossed over amidst the console warrior BS. The Wii was a blessing to 3rd party publishers. And what did they do with those blessings? Absolutely nothing. All they have show for it is microtransactions, GOTY editions and pre-order culture.

What a waste.

Back on topic, Capcom and many other 3rd party holdouts will scramble to support the Switch in 2018 as expected.

Personally, I believe Nintendo deserves better for all the effort they've put in so far and how far they've come.

Uhm, they made a bunch of really awesome third party games for Ps3 and 360 so i definitely wouldn't call it a waste. Also, Wii offered an excellent opportunity to sell shovelware to non-gamers by the buckets. You can't really blame publishers for capitalising on those users, right ?
 
I stated not many, because there are 20 third party titles on that list. There are 1524 titles released for the Wii.

You said 1 title which surpassed 2 million:
That is right. ONE third party title. And not many in between 1 mill and 2 mill.

And I'd say 20 isn't "not many". Maybe when compared to all of the third party titles released overall, but that's an absurd metric which would come up with the same issues when comparing it on Sony or MS's platforms too.

Lets break this down...

1524 titles released
96 titles published by Nintendo (meaning 1428 third party titles)
Total Wii games sold as of March 31, 2017: 917.85 million

If you say 50% of those sales are third party that leaves roughly 459 million units. That averages to 321K units per title.

But wait. We are not done, there are over 20 third party titles we know to sell over 1 million units. Their combined numbers are 34.7 million units sold makes the average for the rest 300k Per title. Again as I stated before, that should speak volumes to the quality of games and expectations of sales on the Wii if third parties budgeted the game to make a profit in those sale averages. Regardless of which consoles benefited from such a maneuver, that is painting a picture of third party expectations from a Nintendo home console.

I think it's actually closer to 55% to be honest but I can't find that chart right now. But the point isn't that many games sold very highly, it's that many publishers were very profitable. They were churning out extremely low budget titles that sold probably upwards of 300k like you said, which gave them very nice profits. Ubisoft explicitly said they used the profits from these "casual games" to fund HD games on the 360 and PS3- http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184305

The claim that third parties in general weren't profitable on the Wii is complete bunk.

Proportionate to other platforms? Yes it's very few that were buying third party on the Wii.

This is what's called moving the goalposts. You initially said very few people bought third party games on the Wii. Half a billion games sold is not very few.


EDIT: Honestly I don't know how this topic came up or if it's all that relevant to Capcom's current situation, but I think it's often worth correcting this myth that third party games didn't sell/weren't profitable on the Wii.
 
Well there is Konami with Bomberman (over 500k sold), there will be a new No more heroes/Travis game, level 5 is ramping up support, Nis has several games, 5pb. Switch is only starting and japanese devs are slow with transitioning to new gens/platforms.

I think it will work out for Ninty in 2018.

I think so too. Getting a sense that people are just (understandably) thirsty and want games for their new system, forgetting that the Switch is 3 months old and doesn't have the luxury of defacto western third party support like the PS4 and Xbox One had.
 

Calm Mind

Member
The craziest thing about the Wii hate is that if the system was a fad that sold no software a large chunk of games we got last gen on PS3 and 360 would not even exist. Carnival games could be shit that sold 5 million units but the profits sure as hell werent reinvested back into the Wii. Where do people think that money went?

Now all future Nintendo platforms are getting the backlash for the mistakes that 3rd parties made in not doing so. Fuck this industry!
 
Now all future Nintendo platforms are getting the backlash for the mistakes that 3rd parties made in not doing so. Fuck this industry!

Its pretty w/e. That's the industry for better for worse. It's just dumb when people say third party games didnt sell on the Wii. They absolutely did.
 

gtj1092

Member
Expectations is why people are upset now. The last thing people should do is expect better or further support out of Capcom. That just isn't coming. They made their bet. They have to see it through regards if it's a bad decision or not. Let the chips fall where they will. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll finally go under and more competent companies will pick up their IPs.

Haha hoping a company fails.
 
You said 1 title which surpassed 2 million:

I am sorry I should have said franchise. Only the just dance surpassed 2 million. One sitting at 4.3 the other sitting at 5.

And I'd say 20 isn't "not many". Maybe when compared to all of the third party titles released overall, but that's an absurd metric which would come up with the same issues when comparing it on Sony or MS's platforms too.

No it is not, because it is respective of console base. For example if the Dreamcast or the Wii U. Had that many titles that were million sellers that would be impressive. For the two consoles that sold more than the Wii we can contrast clearly. The PS1 had 110 titles that sold over a million and the PS2 had over 153. This is a very strong point as I will elaborate more because it includes a response for below.....

I think it's actually closer to 55% to be honest but I can't find that chart right now. But the point isn't that many games sold very highly, it's that many publishers were very profitable. They were churning out extremely low budget titles that sold probably upwards of 300k like you said, which gave them very nice profits. Ubisoft explicitly said they used the profits from these "casual games" to fund HD games on the 360 and PS3- http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184305

The claim that third parties in general weren't profitable on the Wii is complete bunk.


EDIT: Honestly I don't know how this topic came up or if it's all that relevant to Capcom's current situation, but I think it's often worth correcting this myth that third party games didn't sell/weren't profitable on the Wii.

The thing is that the sales numbers are low. They DON'T sell, the numbers prove it. Just because the pubs anticipated and planned for this doesn't change the reality. This is important because the low sales number has been a historical issue for Nintendo consoles. Now the Wii was a standard def console, which main appeal was the inputs and not the graphics or depth of games. Because of that, it places the development of those games in a different price bracket, something more resembling PS2 era. What that means is that they can make more of a profit off of the sales numbers. The PS3/360 and the current gen consoles are again more expensive. Asking third parties, especially those who have seen the sales average of 300k to invest in bringing or porting a large budget or AAA title over, is going to give them pause. If anticipating the lower unit sales, the cost of porting should be low and easy until they feel confident the switch will bring them decent numbers. And again when I pointed out performance I didn't state profits, I talked about unit sales. Which expectation of profits have grown each gen.


The third parties are reactionary, they will try to make a profit the best way they can but if you think they were throwing AAA money at Wii titles, or that the numbers should somehow ease their apprehension, I am unsure how you are interpreting what these numbers mean.

EDIT: Just to be clear here, if third parties can port without issue I can easily see more MP titles. The switch is closer to the competition but the specs don't line up exactly, which means either devs have to do the work, or they create a method/engine that gets it down to a science.
 

GSR

Member
It's only been a couple of months so it's hard to say what their stance is like yet. The 3DS was an exception for Capcom in terms of announced software, most other platforms had around 2 games announced around launch. We're bound to hear about a new Ace Attorney for switch next year at the very least.

Just to set expectations: it's possible a new Ace Attorney for Switch will be announced next year, but I don't expect it to be released until 2019. As far as we know they don't have any active staff on a potential AA7 - AA6's director switched offices and AA6's producer is working with Takumi on DGS2.

Put another way, Capcom was running 2 AA teams the past few years. I expect that's over now.

I could see them porting the trilogy or AA4-6 to Switch as a stopgap though.
 

ohlawd

Member
Capcom's got a whole year. I'm giving them until December 2018. if support has been shit, time to call it quits and they can get bent
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
capcom barely supports anything these days, its all remasters and an occasional MH or SF or Dead Rising game(which arguably would not have existed without MS or Sony), until MHW were just low budget 3DS games that were lower than PS2 level
 
I'm just gonna guess the shitty HD remix port didn't sell? Who knew!

This is just typical Capcom. If they decide to release a good game on the Switch cool, but after the MHXX fiasco they can fuck off (until MH World and RE2make come out)
 
The third parties are reactionary, they will try to make a profit the best way they can but if you think they were throwing AAA money at Wii titles, or that the numbers should somehow ease their apprehension, I am unsure how you are interpreting what these numbers mean.

I'm not sure how you got that from my post. I think we both agree at this point that third party publishers made a huge profit on the Wii and there were a lot of third party games sold. That was due to them putting out a large volume of low budget games, not that all that many games had high sales.

My initial point was literally just in response to a poster claiming very few people bought third party games on the Wii, which that 500 million number heavily contradicts. When it comes to what games, what budgets, and how those high budget games are treated on Nintendo consoles now, I think I generally agree with your points.
 
dude its quite possible that MHW could come to switch later on

remember this game was started 4 years ago and capcom has barely started developing games for the switch

XX port is clearly being rushed

give it time
 

entremet

Member
I'm not surprised. Unless you count Revelations 2, which was actually a cross-gen release, Capcom's first original PS4 game was Street Fighter V, well over two years into the life of that console. And they needed Sony's support to even get it out the door in that timeframe. They're a completely different company today than they were a decade ago and it takes them an incredibly long time to ramp up production on a new generation of hardware. I think they're finally fully invested in the PS4/XB1/PC ecosystem, so I don't expect meaningful Switch support for quite awhile.

Remember their mobile investment lol. What a disaster. Kinda sad that such an iconic company just seems so low rent these days.

That they even shipped SFV in that form is a huge insult.
 

JayEH

Junior Member
They got caught with their pants down at the switch's success. Can't blame them after the wii u. It will take some time before they will have things ready for the system.
 

mjc

Member
I'd hedge a solid bet that they announce the MHXX port for the west. If not for a holiday release then an early 2018 release.
 
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